Joel Cochrane, Kira Bradley, Steven Conde, Steven Morton, Shaun Smyth, Director – Jack Grinhaus, Set Designer – Narda McCarroll, Costume Designer – Rebecca Toon, Lighting Designer – Jessie Paynter, Sound Design & Composition – Miranda Martini, Photo by Fifth Wall Media.
Vertigo Theatre presents The Verdict by Margaret May Hobbs adapted from the book by Barry Reed. This is a thrilling courtroom drama and story of redemption that reminds us of just how satisfying and exhilarating live theatre can be. Tickets are available online at vertigotheatre.com or by calling the box office at 403.221.3708.
Have you ever found yourself staring in the mirror, late at night, drink in hand, contemplating what you’ve done with your life? Your failures. Your triumphs. Your regrets. Frank Galvin has. And Vertigo Theatre’s production of The Verdict lets us step into Frank’s world for an evening of soul-searching redemption.
The Verdict is one of my favourite movies by one of my favourite directors, Sidney Lumet. Lumet came from the theatre and liked to provide his actors with rehearsal time before shooting. And the result was always a more nuanced and more natural performance. You see in movies and on the stage, I think we’re really looking for human connection and empathy. We want to be seen, and we want to be heard. And the more natural a performance the easier it is for us to identify with the characters and the story. And that’s what director Jack Grinhaus along with his stellar cast has on offer for us as the final play of Vertigo’s 2025/26 season. A human story about connection and doing the right thing.
Steven Morton, Shaun Smyth, Director – Jack Grinhaus, Set Designer – Narda McCarroll, Costume Designer – Rebecca Toon, Lighting Designer – Jessie Paynter, Sound Design & Composition – Miranda Martini, Photo by Fifth Wall Media.
So, it’s the early ‘80s in Boston and Shaun Smyth gives a commanding and nuanced performance as Frank Galvin a one-time promising lawyer who starts his day by checking the obituaries so he can show up at funerals and offer his business card to the widow in case there’s a will or an insurance claim that could use his particular skills. He has fallen on hard times, faced disbarment, and spends his days numbing his pain with whiskey.
Frank is at a low point in his life, but he’s been thrown a lifeline. His battle-weary mentor Moe Katz played with plenty of comic insights by Dov Mickelson has gotten Frank a malpractice case that can easily be settled out of court and provide Frank with a big chunk of change. And Frank is grateful for the case. He’s grateful for the money.
But here’s the thing. Something terrible happened to Deborah Ann Kaye a young woman going to the hospital for the birth of her third child who ends up going into cardiac arrest while on the table. Her heart stops. Oxygen is no longer reaching her brain. A code blue is called and while the doctors fight against time to get her heart started again and deliver her child, in the end, she leaves that delivery room in a coma and four years later finds herself wasting away and lying in a dark room surrounded by monitors and pulleys and tubes that feed her and keep her diminishing body alive.
Frank represents Deborah’s mother Mrs. McDaid played with a heartbreaking sorrow by Shawna Burnett. They are suing the hospital, the archdiocese, and the two lead doctors, Dr. Danielle Crowley, played by Kira Bradley and Dr. Rexford Gilbert Towler, played by Steven Conde. Both doctors feel themselves above reproach and consider themselves to have done everything in their power when things went south to save both the baby and the mother. Frank assures Mrs. McDaid that this will all be settled without the ordeal of going to court. And that’s his intention. Until he goes to see Deborah in the hospital and that changes him.
Steven Conde, Shaun Smyth, Duval Lang, Director – Jack Grinhaus, Set Designer – Narda McCarroll, Costume Designer – Rebecca Toon, Lighting Designer – Jessie Paynter, Sound Design & Composition – Miranda Martini, Photo by Fifth Wall Media.
Up until going to the hospital Deborah was just a name on an insurance form. This Deborah – the one lying in bed wasting away in front of him is a real person and a woman whose life was stolen from her. Frank realizes that her story must be told and that a quick settlement won’t be near enough to pay for her long-term care and her children’s future. And so, Frank refuses the settlement and decides to take the case to trial so that fair compensation can be given and justice will be served. But of course, there’s no guarantee that he’ll actually win the case, and that’s where the dramatic tension lies in the play.
By going to trial Frank is choosing to go up against J. Edgar Concannon played with a commanding sense of confidence by Joel Cochrane. Concannon not only represents one of the most powerful law firms in the state, but it is also claimed that he has never lost a case.
Into this mix we meet Steven Morton who portrays the troubled Bishop Brophy who urges Frank to take the deal because it’s the smart thing to do and the best thing for the church.
Kelsey Verzotti, Duval Lang, Joel Cochrane, Director – Jack Grinhaus, Set Designer – Narda McCarroll, Costume Designer – Rebecca Toon, Lighting Designer – Jessie Paynter, Sound Design & Composition – Miranda Martini, Photo by Fifth Wall Media.
Doing double duty Christopher Clare plays Eugene Meehan the friendly bartender and owner of Frank’s favourite watering hole, as well as playing the unflappable Dr. Lional Thompson an expert witness that Frank flies in for the trial.
Kelsey Verzotti is Donna St. Laurent the charming and likeable waitress trying to get her own life back on track who works at the bar. Verzotti also portrays Natalie Stampanatto who was the nurse on duty the night that Deborah was admitted to the hospital.
And rounding out the cast is Duval Lang as irascible Judge Eldredge Sweeney who adds friction and tension to the legal proceedings.
Kira Bradley, Shawna Burnett, Director – Jack Grinhaus, Set Designer – Narda McCarroll, Costume Designer – Rebecca Toon, Lighting Designer – Jessie Paynter, Sound Design & Composition – Miranda Martini, Photo by Fifth Wall Media.
In addition to a great cast Jack Grinhaus has gathered together a terrific design team including set designer Narda McCarroll, costume designer Rebecca Toon, lighting designer Jessie Paynter, and sound designer and composer Miranda Martini to bring the world of the play alive.
The sets are made spacious and kept simple with dark wood paneling providing us with a feeling of age and time. The movement of a desk or the retraction of a wall easily changes the setting and the play moves along at an uninterrupted pace.
One of the things that makes the play work so well is that the entire second act is the trial. In the first act we learn the story and we learn about Frank and all the other characters. But when we come back after intermission, we’re in the court room. And we as the audience are brought into the world of the play by becoming the jury. All the testimony and opening and closing arguments are directly delivered to us as we try to figure out who is telling the truth and who might be less than honest about the events of that day.
You know, I’ve been looking forward to seeing this stage adaptation ever since Jack announced it last year and I’m happy to say I was not disappointed. The Verdict delivers a remarkably satisfying and memorable night at the theatre that is driven by powerhouse performances from the entire cast.
The Cast of THE VERDICT, Director – Jack Grinhaus, Set Designer – Narda McCarroll, Costume Designer – Rebecca Toon, Lighting Designer – Jessie Paynter, Sound Design & Composition – Miranda Martini, Photo by Fifth Wall Media.
In addition to seeing the show I also wanted to sit down with Jack and explore his thoughts about directing the play because he told me that this was a significant movie and book for him and I was curious to know about that personal connection.
JACK GRINHAUS
I grew up with a passion for stories and films about justice and injustice. I don’t know if that’s because one of my first memories is John Lennon’s assassination and it’s one of the first times I remember seeing my mother cry and it just impacted me. And those kinds of moments made me question humanity and to be curious about what justice means. You know the distance between what is true and what you can prove to be true.
And Sidney Lumet who directed the movie is one of my favourite film directors of all time. And it has Paul Newman and when you’re young you end up seeing more films than you do theatre because it’s more accessible. And besides that, it’s a really entertaining story about a guy who has one last shot to prove himself. And I think there’s a spectacle to courtroom dramas that lends itself perfectly to live theater that’s even better than film or TV.
And then, at the same time, it feels like we’re in a world today where I think a lot of people feel like there isn’t a lot of justice in the universe these days. And I wanted to offer our audience a place where you can come in and justice will be done. David can beat Goliath. So, it felt really relevant.
Shaun Smyth, Dov Mickelson, Director – Jack Grinhaus, Set Designer – Narda McCarroll, Costume Designer – Rebecca Toon, Lighting Designer – Jessie Paynter, Sound Design & Composition – Miranda Martini, Photo by Fifth Wall Media.
JAMES HUTCHISON
So, you’ve got this exciting courtroom drama, and I assume you must have had some visions or ideas about what you want to do with it. And now you’ve assembled the cast. You’ve got it on its legs, and I’m wondering, how has that cast brought your vision to life, or how has it maybe taken it in new directions?
JACK
Everybody came in really prepared. Most people right from the start were almost completely off book. You know, Sean Smyth, who plays Frank Galvin and is on stage almost all of the time and has huge swaths of text came in about 90% off book and so he led the charge and we started cooking really fast and really early.
And the play deals with characters who are a little older and so I’ve been able to assemble some of Calgary’s best and seasoned actors and put them in a room. We have ten people. And the majority of them are heavy-hitting professional artists in this town. And so, what they can bring to the table as mature actors who know how to make offers, as we say, is exciting.
So, as the director I don’t feel like I have to control the scenario. I can allow for a more organic creative process because they come in with really strong, exciting choices and challenge each other. All I have to do is go in and tweak it and make sure the tension is there and support them because a team like this brings so much to the table. And it’s a humble, fun, absolutely extraordinary group that has elevated the show from day one.
Dov Mickelson, Christopher Clare, Shaun Smyth, Director – Jack Grinhaus, Set Designer – Narda McCarroll, Costume Designer – Rebecca Toon, Lighting Designer – Jessie Paynter, Sound Design & Composition – Miranda Martini, Photo by Fifth Wall Media.
JAMES
You know, courtroom dramas have such a key moment or payoff. It’s the verdict. Guilty or not guilty. And that’s what makes these stories so gripping. But they only remain gripping if we feel the verdict could go either way. So how do you balance that in the play? How do you make a case for justice and yet balance the possibility that justice isn’t guaranteed?
JACK
The work I’m interested in has characters that have a certain level of moral ambiguity. I don’t necessarily believe in good guy vs bad guy. I think when those lines are blurred, audiences have more difficulty being able to take a side and even the people you would term the bad guys in this story – I’ve told the actors don’t play them as bad guys. They think what they did was right.
And the beauty of a courtroom drama is, it doesn’t matter who’s right or wrong, it’s what you can prove. So even if we all believe in what we know to be true in this story it doesn’t necessitate that people will win because we have to be convinced as a jury.
So, you learn everything in the first act and then in the second act we’re in the courtroom and I think Vertigo audiences love to chase a story. This isn’t as much a who done it or why done it or how done it, it’s more of a are they going to get caught and get what they deserve for what they did.
Because the court case swings back and forth. And I think that’s how you build tension. You have to focus on making sure that both sides feel like they’re winning that battle at some point. And so, I don’t think you totally know the outcome until the very end because you feel like everybody’s telling the truth. But in the back of your mind you know there’s something off. You don’t know what. And we have a great reveal in the play that helps take that over the edge.
Christopher Clare, Kelsey Verzotti, Director – Jack Grinhaus, Set Designer – Narda McCarroll, Costume Designer – Rebecca Toon, Lighting Designer – Jessie Paynter, Sound Design & Composition – Miranda Martini, Photo by Fifth Wall Media.
JAMES
You know, one of the lines that I remember from the movie is when they’re talking about justice and Frank says, “No, the courtroom gives you a chance for justice. It’s not a guarantee of justice.” And that makes it a worthy thing to pursue.
JACK
Absolutely. That’s one of the first scenes. The case is built around this hospital that’s run by the church and the diocese. So, the bishop is speaking with Frank saying, “You know there’s nothing we can do in this scenario. All we can do is try to offer something to help,” And Frank says, “I can’t take it because then no one will ever know what happened. No one will know what went wrong.”
And in his eyes, it’s better for this to become a public event so that people will know the story whether or not they win or lose. And so that becomes the gamble he takes. He may not win it. He wants to win it. But the chance he’s taking is to make sure that the story is still out there because if you take the payoff – no one will ever know the story. And as they say, history repeats and the same problem can occur again.
JAMES
Yeah, it’s a very short play if he takes the payoff.
JACK
Yeah, I think so. We’re done in scene one if that happens, right?
JAMES
That’s right.
Shaun Smyth, Director – Jack Grinhaus, Set Designer – Narda McCarroll, Costume Designer – Rebecca Toon, Lighting Designer – Jessie Paynter, Sound Design & Composition – Miranda Martini, Photo by Fifth Wall Media.
JACK
But we’re also meeting a man who is used to taking the payoff. As the play begins, we find out he’s fallen pretty hard from his glory days as a lawyer. He was very promising. And then, some things happened to him throughout his life that threw him into this place. And he’s given up. When the play begins, he’s calling up funeral homes early in the morning, seeing if anybody needs him to come by and meet some people. Maybe there was an accident, maybe there’s an insurance claim, maybe there’s a will. He’s at the bottom. He’s an ambulance chasing lawyer.
But then something about this case revives that great ancient soul in him that was a fighter and offers him a chance for justice and rejuvenation and retribution in his life. And we all wish we had those moments, you know, a chance to make things right. And that was the theme of this whole season. People reflecting on their lives to try to make right past wrongs. And I think for Frank there’s this moment in the play where he’s talking with his partner, Mo, and he just says, “This is the case.”
JAMES
So, you’ve announced your 50th season and you’ve got an outstanding lineup of plays ahead of us. Can you go over what we’re going to see next season?
JACK
Absolutely. You know, we had this huge fundraiser recently, and I wanted to do a historical perspective, so, I ended up doing this massive deep dive into the history of the company. I went back and read every Herald article from 1967 till today to see how things went from the Pleiades to Vertigo. The whole story. Every play.
And it was a massive undertaking and an incredible experience for me because I got to see how the lineage of this place actually was. And interestingly, there’s this idea that we are this Agatha Christie theatre, but in fact, I think we’re more of a crime theatre, if anything, which is why we started to branch out in those areas. And this season taking all that into account and looking up our history and trying to make sure that we’re looking ahead as much as looking behind I wanted to culminate all that 50 years in a way that was saying, “Okay, this is where we’ve come from. Here’s where we are today. Here’s where we’re going.” And do it all in five or six plays.
And you know, The Mousetrap would have been a great choice. Dial M for Murder would have been a great choice. Sheer Madness would have been a great choice. But all those shows were being done by other theaters in the city. So I went, okay, how do I stay exciting, original, fresh, and not feel like we’re repeating things that were recently done and looking forward so audiences can love Vertigo for what it is regardless of the stories.
And so, we start off with the world premiere of The Lodger. And if we’re going to be Canada’s National Theatre for Mystery and Intrigue, then we have to lead as much as follow. And so we’re going to start off with a show from two incredible writers, Vern Thiessen, who’s one of Canada’s most prolific and profound playwrights, and Susie Maloney, who’s one of Canada’s great, renowned horror novelists, who have come up with this concept for a modern take on The Lodger, which initially was written as a response to the Jack the Ripper cases that takes place in that period. And even the Hitchcock film from 1927 is kind of reflecting that period 40 years before.
So now we’re thinking about 40 years before now and that’s the 70’s, which was the rise of the serial killer in the modern era. You know, the Ted Bundy’s and all that stuff. And so, setting this play in that period lets us reflect on that very scary period where everybody stopped hitchhiking.
And so, The Lodger is this incredible Hitchcockian suspense about a series of murders that are happening in a nondescript American-like city and suddenly this poor couple takes in a lodger who’s a bit mysterious and creepy. So, we’re not waiting for the big reveal of who the killer is as much as what do we do once we know, right?
And Hitchcock’s greatest weapon is suspense. He always says, it’s not suspenseful to say with two minutes left in a story that a bomb’s going to go off. Instead what you do is two minutes into the story say a bomb’s going to go off. And the suspense in this story is the fear of having somebody like that in your home.
The Lodger is a world premiere play that’s exciting, fast paced, and I’m directing that, and we already have an incredible team that we just cast, and I couldn’t be more proud of that. So, we’re starting with a sharp, suspense, that’s a little scary and exciting thriller.
And then, we go to Sherlock Holmes: The Hunt for Moriarty. And this is a new play by Nick Lane, based on several stories from Arthur Conan Doyle. Nick Lane last brought us The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, which was a huge hit. People really loved both his writing and storytelling nature. And this is almost like a political thriller. Sherlock Holmes, and his brother Mycroft, get caught up in it. And it’s Holmes and Watson against their greatest foe, Moriarty.
Then we go onto something new. Another Canadian piece. The Veil, by Keith Barker and Thomas Morgan Jones. An interesting moral laundry piece that’s very much Faustian in nature about a guy who makes a deal with the devil and then things start to go off the rails. And it’s a single actor coming in and telling this story to the audience. And the audience eventually gets implicated in a way and has to make choices of their own. It’s a fast-paced, heart-pumping, little chiller piece about a guy who picks up a curse, and how is he going to relieve himself of it?
The fourth show is another modern classic, The 39 Steps. Probably the highest selling show in every theatre it ever plays in because it’s a great spy thriller based on a Hitchcock film where Richard Hannay gets caught up in a weird spy drama where a woman comes to his house and gets murdered and then he’s on the run trying to figure it all out. It’s a bit like The Fugitive in a way. It’s very theatrical and we have Mark Bellamy, who was a previous artistic director here directing it and bringing back some of the people he worked with in the past.
And then, you know, we’ve been working on this for over four years, and we are finally able to announce The Midnight Torch: A Detective Murdock Mystery is going to have its world premiere here. And what I love about creating art in Canada is the idea of mythologizing Canadiana. After next season Murdoch Mysteries will be the longest running Canadian drama in history. And so, on their 20th anniversary and our 50th we’re starting to branch out and we started working with Shaftesbury and CBC to create a live stage version which is a bit of a prequel.
Jack Grinhaus Artistic Director Vertigo Theatre
So, we’re meeting Murdoch earlier in his career when he’s just a junior detective. And we get to see him meet Ogden, who in the TV series becomes his wife. And we get to see him build his relationship with some of the other characters like Crabtree and Brackenreid.
But if you’ve never seen the show, it’s also a standalone story. It’s a great mystery where Murdoch is invited to the home of this wealthy entrepreneur. And she had just come back from the Chicago World’s Fair and wanted to do something like that in Toronto and decided to invite a bunch of inventors over to her home. And then during one of the inventor’s presentations, he’s killed in the invention and then we realize it’s murder and suddenly Murdoch has to switch from his inventor hat and put on his junior detective hat and figure the whole thing out and we get to watch that as it happens in real time.
It’s very much like Murder on the Orient Express or The Mousetrap where there’s a lot of red herrings, big surprises, good gasps, and huge spectacle where we’ve got this huge machine that this guy built to transport himself and there are explosions and fireworks and so it’s a really exciting large-scale spectacle piece that we’re going to launch here in Calgary.
And it’s an excellent opportunity to partner up and take Maureen Jennings’ incredible books, which were turned into TV movies, then turned into a TV series by Shaftesbury, which is Christina Jennings, and Peter Mitchell, who’s the showrunner and came up with the concept for the story along with Saleema Nawaz. And he’s written 120-something Murdoch episodes, and then to get a writer like Michael Ross Albert to come in and make it a play. And it’s got humor, it’s got spectacle, it’s a chase, and I’m hopeful it will become, at some point in history, one of our Canadian classic pieces, so that we have something like The Mousetrap that’s Canadian.
And then, as a final topper for our season, I’m really excited about the opportunity of starting a second stage series. So, my dream would be that we have this main stage series in our playhouse, but then in our studio, we have some innovative, exciting work by locals, and by international artists that are working in the genre.
We have this incredible local company, 8ROJO, which is Javier Vilalta’s company. And they do physical plays. There’s no spoken text. And so, we have The Last Candle, which is based on a Grimm story called Godfather Death. And this guy gets this great power and deal with the devil, so that he can heal anybody. And of course, he ends up having to confront a very serious scenario down the road and make a big decision about it.
And so, for me, this really evokes what I want to look at for the future. You know, we’re creating new, exciting works. And just as we’ve seen some large Broadway musical shows try out stuff at Theatre Calgary or at the Citadel, we want to do that for our genre and I want Vertigo to be the place in the world that any new writer writing the genre comes to first. We want to be the home base for those works.
Synthia Yusuf and Nathan Kay in WILDWOMAN. Photo by Benjamin Laird. Set Design by Narda McCarroll. Costume Design by Alaia Hamer. Lighting Design by Gerald King.
Alberta Theatre Projects, in association with Gateway Theatre, presents Wildwoman by Kat Sandler running until May 10th at the Martha Cohen Theatre. This is a big, bold, and brash story that explores the life and times of Catherine de Medici, her husband Henry II of France, his mistress Didi, Pete the real-life inspiration for the Beauty and the Beast fairy tale, and his wife and lady in waiting to Catherine, Kitty. Tickets are available at albertatheatreprojects.com or by calling the box office at 403.294.7402.
George Bernard Shaw said, “Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.” This is perhaps the best way to describe Wildwoman by Kat Sandler, a raw, racy and provocative play that is both very funny and very serious that is bursting with energy all told by a terrific ensemble that bring the play to life.
Nathan Kay, N Girgis and Connor Suart in WILDWOMAN. Photo by Benjamin Laird. Set Design by Narda McCarroll. Costume Design by Alaia Hamer. Lighting Design by Gerald King.
Our story begins on Saturday October 28, 1533 with the wedding of Catherine de Medici and Henry who at the time was second in line to the throne of France. Both were fourteen years of age. The marriage was consummated under the watchful eye of the King and so began a ten-year struggle for Catherine to produce an heir as Henry would, after the death of his older brother Francis, become The Dauphin and therefore next in line to the throne.
While Henry and Cathy shared a love of hunting and were committed to producing children their marriage would always be overshadowed by Henry’s love and devotion to his mistress Diane de Poitiers, known in the play as Didi, who was twenty years his senior and was a direct rival to Cathy’s power and rights as Queen.
Synthia Yusuf, Nathan Kay and N Girgis in WILDWOMAN. Photo by Benjamin Laird. Set Design by Narda McCarroll. Costume Design by Alaia Hamer. Lighting Design by Gerald King.
In addition to the royal love triangle, we are introduced to Petrus Gonsalvus known in the play as Pete who was the inspiration for the story Beauty and the Beast. Pete suffered from hypertrichosis, which is an abnormal amount of hair growth over the whole body. It turns out that the beast, who Henry keeps in a golden cage, is a gentle soul who eventually becomes a member of the court and marries Kitty who sees this marriage as an opportunity for her to secure her position in the world.
Director Jamie King has assembled a terrific cast that brings depth and comedy to the play while diving into some very dark realities about life in the Royal Court. Synthia Yusuf plays Cathy as a determined and intelligent woman who is actively working to achieve her goal of giving Henry an heir while also securing more power and position for herself.
Jamie King – Director
Nathan Kay’s Henry goes from a somewhat spoiled and impulsive young prince whose childish tantrums turn a darker shade as he grows into manhood and becomes King of France. N Girgis is Didi, Henry’s long-time mistress, who over time manages to gain more influence over Henry because of Henry’s love and affection for her.
Connor Suart as Pete – the beast – seems the most genuinely human of the group and Connor plays him as a gentle and curious beast who grows into a kind and caring man whose greatest desire is nothing more than to be surrounded by his wife and children.
And finally, there is Catherine Gonsalvus known as Kitty in the play who recognizes that her own position in life depends on playing the role that others want and conceding to their demands all too aware that she leads a life that depends on the favours and whims of others.
Elizabeth Barrett and Connor Suart in WILDWOMAN. Photo by Benjamin Laird. Set Design by Narda McCarroll. Costume Design by Alaia Hamer. Lighting Design by Gerald King.
Narda McCarroll’s set design features passageways in the back and four giant gold columns that reach into the sky. The empty stage is easily transformed into a throne room or a dungeon by changing nothing more than a few set pieces. That offers flexibility to the scene transitions that allow for the play to speed along at a rapid pace. Plus, all the furnishings and set elements end in tree branches that remind us of a forest.
The costumes by Alaia Hamer are stylistically fitting for the time and flexible enough for the physicality the play demands. The lighting by Gerald King and sound design by Nancy Tam presents us with hints of a forest just as the set does even though much of the action takes place within the walls of the castle. This is deliberate because the actual king’s court very much feels like a jungle where our characters must remain forever vigilant and aware of dangers and shifting fortunes.
Playing a character like Catherine de Medici which is based on a real historical figure in a play that explores power and gender and legacy is an interesting challenge. That had me wondering about the freedoms and constraints that offers an actor playing the role and so I contacted Synthia Yusuf to ask her about her own performance and how she felt about bringing this historical character to the stage?
SYNTHIA YUSUF
The thing about Catherine de Medici is that her story hasn’t quite infiltrated popular culture in the way that some others have. This was the time of Henry VIII and his famous six wives such as Anne Boleyn and there have been so many movies about those women that I feel like people already have an image of them in their mind. And while there are some people aware of Catherine de Medici, there are a lot of people who aren’t. So, I actually didn’t feel any pressure to live up to a figure that’s really present in popular culture.
I love describing Cathy as tenacious and I think, Kat Sandler has done a great job of capturing the essence of what we’re trying to portray which is this woman that is just relentlessly determined to get what she wants. Even with the odds stacked against her the whole time she never gives up. She is a survivor and she understood the rules and she played by the rules, but she really bent them to get what she wanted. She was a fighter for sure. She was very intelligent. Very well read. She really cared about politics. She was really interested in how to run the country and how a royal family should operate.
Synthia Yusuf – Cathy
JAMES HUTCHISON
When you’re given something this rich to explore as an actor how do you approach the material. Was it overwhelming or did you have a good understanding about how you wanted to approach the story from the start.
SYNTHIA
Sometimes – not often – but every once in awhile a script will come across my lap and I will know the character intrinsically right away and this was one of those scripts. It’s not often you get a script like this – especially for women – where you get the opportunity to be diabolical and hilarious. And this is one of the few auditions where I felt no nerves at all. I knew exactly what I wanted to do. And I got to read with Nathan who’s playing Henry. We auditioned together. We did a chemistry read together. And Nathan is a friend of mine, so I’ve known him for years, so I instantly felt comfortable and I just felt so at home in the material from the moment I read it.
Nathan Kay and Synthia Yusuf in WILDWOMAN. Photo by Benjamin Laird. Set Design by Narda McCarroll. Costume Design by Alaia Hamer. Lighting Design by Gerald King.
JAMES
You mentioned Nathan and you mentioned chemistry, so you need chemistry and trust as a cast when you’re doing a big complicated, physically challenging show like this one. What’s it like working with this cast and your director Jamie King as you brought the story to the stage.
SYNTHIA
Jamie has assembled a fantastic group of people. It’s a five-hander. Five of us in this play. And what I love about this group of people is that we all care really deeply about the process and about the work but we’re also all very very playful. And I think because it has such contemporized language that Kat has used to write the play all of us feel very comfortable in that style. So, that allows us to be able to be inspired by our natural impulses within it and I think the five of us have really found a nice balance of working really hard but also letting the play be alive – letting it breathe – letting new things land.
Kat Sandler – Playwright
JAMES
So, the first act is very funny, and the second act takes a turn and it gets more serious so I’m just curious as an actress and seeing how the play shifts and changes how do you approach that because it’s interesting to me how that change works.
SYNTHIA
The first act definitely has more of a farcical silliness to it whereas in the second act her life does get darker as we journey on in the play. However, it was important to Jamie that this remain a comedy throughout so as actors that’s part of the challenge. Having all of us being on board to maintain a kind of a playfulness throughout the drama. And I think that actually makes it more devastating in a way. That’s what I find most interesting to watch because that’s life, right. It’s not always one thing. We could be laughing at a funeral or crying at our wedding. That’s how humans are.
Connor Suart and Synthia Yusuf in WILDWOMAN. Photo by Benjamin Laird. Set Design by Narda McCarroll. Costume Design by Alaia Hamer. Lighting Design by Gerald King.
JAMES
So, you’ve had quite a career. You’ve been in Frozen and played Maria in Sound of Music and now you’re doing this. So where are you at in your career and did you imagine you’d be here and what is the vision for the future?
SYNTHIA
No, I didn’t. And it’s nice to kind of be present in that so thank you for asking that question because I’ve been at it for a long time. I went to theatre school right out of high school and my focus was musical theatre, so I had a lot of singing and dance training and coming out of school it took a long time to get things going. I would say I probably had my breakthrough just before the pandemic.
And since then, I’ve gotten so many incredible opportunities ranging from doing Harry Potter and the Cursed Child in Toronto which is this huge West End – Broadway Play that I worked on for a year and a half. And I’ve been travelling all over Canada working on musicals and Shakespeare and now this. So, I’d say the variety of what I’ve been able to do is something I never thought would be there for me but I’m so thrilled and privileged and grateful to have done all of that work.
For the future I’ve always said I’m happy as long as I get to keep doing this. And I am so excited to be working on Wildwoman. I have never done something like this before that required so much of me as an actor. And I’m really interested in more work like this. Like I said at the beginning, you don’t get scripts like this every day. And so, my hope for the theatre landscape as a whole is that there are more parts for women like this and that I get to play some of them.
Connor Suart and Synthia Yusuf in WILDWOMAN. Photo by Benjamin Laird. Set Design by Narda McCarroll. Costume Design by Alaia Hamer. Lighting Design by Gerald King.
JAMES
It sounds to me like what shifted in the world was that opportunities began to be offered rather than you chasing them all the time.
SYNTHIA
I kind of feel when I started out diversity wasn’t a thing that people really prioritized that much and I just felt that when I left school there wasn’t a spot for me and I pulled away from the industry for a long time because I felt like no one wanted to see someone that looked like me in the parts that I wanted to play. And so, I think it was kind of a push and pull with me and the industry. I had a few doors open and I really just kind of pushed through them. I played Ariel in The Little Mermaid a couple of years ago and that’s something I never thought that I would do, but someone took the opportunity to see me in that kind of a role and once you start getting those opportunities you start to believe that you can do anything.
Synthia Yusuf in WILDWOMAN. Photo by Benjamin Laird. Set Design by Narda McCarroll. Costume Design by Alaia Hamer. Lighting Design by Gerald King.
JAMES
Okay, just for fun I’m curious to know if you could have Cathy over for dinner what would you serve? And then second, what would you want to ask her about her life?
SYNTHIA
Well, I’m not a very good cook. So, I would probably take Cathy to a restaurant because she was a queen. She’s used to eating something very fine – something very delicious – well crafted. I’m quite a foodie so I love fine dining restaurants and since I’m from Vancouver I’m not super familiar with the Calgary scene, but I did go to Caesars last night and it was fantastic. So, maybe I’d take her there. She was quite a prolific hunter. So maybe I would want to serve her some boar – she hunted boar. I think she’d really like a farm to table restaurant.
And I would love to ask Cathy what those ten years were really like for her. Those ten years where she couldn’t have a child and that’s all that anyone wanted or expected from her. Because that’s a really long time to be trying and having all eyes on you because that’s your only purpose. I would just love to hear from her and know what her mind set was like at that time.
JAMES
Alright you’ve had dinner and she gets to see the show. What do you think she’d make of the play and your portrayal of her and her life?
SYNTHIA
I like to think that Cathy was cool, you know. She was a patron of the arts. That was very important to her. So, I’d like to think in a modern context she still would be. And I was surprised by how many people loved this play in Vancouver and I really hope that Calgary loves the show. It’s very unorthodox and probably not for everyone but I was really shocked by how many people really did love it. People from all different age brackets and generations and so I think she would be in that group of people that loves it as well and I think she would find it hilarious.
***
For me personally, Wildwoman feels somewhat like Game of Thrones and Synthia Yusuf’s portrayal of Catherine embodies the intelligence and sense of humour of Tyrion Lannister while also having the cunning and ruthless survival instincts of Cersei Lannister. That gives you a feel for the tone of the play and so you know it’s going to be an evening of sharp observations about sex, politics, and power with plenty of big bold moments that give the play an exciting energy.
Alberta Theatre Projects, in association with Gateway Theatre, presents Wildwoman by Kat Sandler running until May 10th at the Martha Cohen Theatre. Tickets are available online at albertatheatreprojects.com or by calling the box office at 403.294.7402.
Wildwoman is recommended for ages 16+ and features mature content, strong language, and sexual situations.
Hayley Rosenau, Sarah Joylyn Irwin, Brent Gill, Matthew Mooney, and Nathan Schmidt in the Rosebud Theatre Production Hurry Hard by Kristen Da Silva. Photo by Lauren Hamm Photography
In search of some lighthearted fun and plenty of laughs, then head out to Rosebud Theatre and catch Kristen Da Silva’s very funny and crowd-pleasing comedy Hurry Hard. The show runs until May 23rd and includes Chef Mo’s always delicious buffet. Tickets are available at www.RosebudTheatre.com or by calling the box office at 1-800-267-7553.
As the play opens, we are introduced to Terry and Bill, two bickering brothers from Didsbury with a complicated history. Bill is the quiet one hesitant to stand up for what he wants, and Terry appears to be the screw-up of a brother who can’t keep a job while focusing all his dreams and ambitions on winning the Regional Bonspiel so that he can finally have bragging rights over the current champions – that annoying team from Olds. This is the last chance for Didsbury as the town is planning to tear down the curling rink leaving the local teams without a place to play. Unfortunately, the team finds themselves short a man and in need of a replacement or they’ll have to forfeit the game.
Matthew Mooney, Brent Gill, Nathan Schmidt in the Rosebud Theatre Production of Hurry Hard by Kristen Da Silva. Photo by Lauren Hamm Photography
Also sharing the curling rink is the women’s team which also finds themselves short a player. That’s where we meet Sandy, Bill’s ex-wife who happens to be a pretty good curler and who’s currently attempting to teach her friend Darlene, the local hairdresser, how to play the game. Of course, you can see where this is heading. The men and the women will have to team up and play as a mixed team in order to keep their dream of being regional champions alive. Adding to the mix is Johnny , a handsome, six-pack-sporting new member of the men’s team whose mere presence can cause women to swoon like schoolgirls over their favourite boy band.
Sarah Joylyn Irwin and Hayley Rosenau in the Rosebud Theatre Production of Hurry Hard by Kristen Da Silva. Photo by Lauren Hamm Photography
Of course, Hurry Hard isn’t the first Canadian play to use curling as a setting for a story. The New Canadian Curling Club by playwright Mark Crawford, which graced the Calgary stages at Alberta Theatre Projects a few years ago is another one, and there’s W.O. Mitchell’s classic tale, The Black Bonspiel of Wullie MacCrimmon, which was originally produced by Theatre Calgary back in the ’70s and more recently by Alberta Theatre Projects in 2024. That had me wondering if writing a play about curling is a rite of passage for Canadian playwrights and so I contacted Kristen and asked her what she thinks is the appeal of the game as a background for these different stories and her story in particular.
KRISTEN DA SILVA
It’s a funny story about Mark’s play and mine.
Hurry Hard was commissioned by Lighthouse Festival Theatre at the same time as Mark was writing The New Canadian Curling Club for Blyth Festival Theatre. Neither of us knew the other was working on a curling play until the season announcements came out. Now we jokingly check with one another before starting a new script.
Personally, I’ve never been able to pass up a good sports story, especially any kind of underdog story. I chose curling, specifically, because it’s a very cool part of our Canadian tradition. It’s a sport that attracts all ages and all skill levels and, in small towns especially, curling clubs become these community hubs. I think there are nearly endless story-telling possibilities, which is why these three plays can share a setting and be so different from one another.
Playwright Kristen Da Silva
JAMES HUTCHISON
So, last year Lunchbox Theatre in Calgary did a marvelous production of your play Beyond the Sea which I saw and thought was fantastic. And now here we are in Rosebud, and they are producing what I’m sure won’t be their last Kristen Da Silva play – your full-length romantic comedy Hurry Hard. So, I’m wondering with that success and as you get more productions around the world and audiences see your work has your relationship with the work and industry as a playwright changed? Are some things easier? Harder? Unexpected?
KRISTEN
Thanks so much! I wasn’t able to get to Calgary to see it myself but it looked terrific.
And thanks for the invitation to look back a bit with this question. I guess my first thought is just how fortunate and surprised I feel. In the beginning, I flew by the seat of my pants more. I think more about the craft now. I work harder at it. There have been so many opportunities given to me and I collaborate with such amazingly talented people; I want to work really hard to live up to them. It’s a gift to get to do this job every day. It’s the best job I can imagine.
JAMES
Okay, I have to ask the question, because it is a major topic of discussion in the arts. Any thoughts on AI and its impact on the arts and theatre in general.
KRISTEN
When it comes to writing, I don’t understand it at all. We have so many gifted writers on this earth. We should invest in them, because I’ve personally never left the theatre wishing the play felt less human.
JAMES
And finally, why go to Rosebud and see Hurry Hard? What do you hope audiences take away from the experience of seeing your play and this production?
KRISTEN
I hope audiences go to Rosebud, leave their troubles at the theatre door, spend a couple of hours laughing, and leave with a little more hope and joy in their hearts.
Sarah Joylyn Irwin, Hayley Rosenau, Matthew Mooney, Nathan Schmidt, in the Rosebud Theatre Production of Hurry Hard by Kristen Da Silva. Photo by Lauren Hamm Photography
After seeing the show, I can guarantee that audiences are definitely laughing and coming away from the experience with a more positive and happier feeling about the world. Director Craig Hall expertly balances the comedy and heart of the play by assembling a terrific ensemble that brings these characters to life while Da Silva’s script is filled with smart and clever dialogue that keeps the pace moving and the laughs coming.
Brent Gill is great fun as Terry playing him with a blustery male energy that masks his true feelings and desires. Nathan Schmitt portrays his brother Bill as a man clearly with more than curling on his mind as he awkwardly tries to reconnect with his ex-wife Sandy. Sarah Joylyn Irwin plays Sandy as a woman debating which path to follow as she reviews her life choices and considers her future options. Hayley Rosenau brings a mischievous energy and sparkle to Darlene who must rise to the challenge as the Didsbury team comes together for the final game against Olds. And Matthew Mooney is a charming, friendly, take life as it comes presence who’s just happy to be a part of the team.
Hurry Hard by Kristen Da Silva at Rosebud Theatre, Scenic Designer Dale Marushy, Costume Designer Amy Castro, Lighting Designer Becky Halterman, Sound Designer/Composer Joy Robinson. Photo by Lauren Hamm Photography
One of the nice things about the play is that there are no villains, unless of course you’re referring to that team from Olds. These are nice people facing challenges and trying to navigate complicated feelings. That’s what humanizes the story more than anything because we’ve all been there trying to figure out our next step in life or have known friends facing these same kinds of life situations. Adding to the relatable feeling of the play the set design by Dale Marushy, costume design by Amy Castro, lighting design by Becky Halterman, and sound design by Joy Robinson create a realistic playground for all the action to take place.
Hurry Hard is a play filled with laughter about lost dreams, second chances, and learning to speak from the heart. The lady behind me not only laughed throughout the entire play but also added the occasional comment about how the play was hilarious. So well written. And filled with laughter. This live endorsement in no way detracted from our enjoyment of the play and I have no doubt expressed the feelings and thoughts of the less vocal members of the audience.
Hayley Rosenau, Sarah Joylyn Irwin, Brent Gill, Matthew Mooney, and Nathan Schmidt in the Rosebud Theatre Production of Hurry Hard by Kristen Da Silva. Photo by Lauren Hamm Photography
Hurry Hard by Kristen Da Silva runs until May 23rd with matinee performances Wednesday to Saturday and evening performances on Friday and Saturday. The show is just over two hours long including an intermission. Matinee performances begin at 1:30 pm and the evening shows start at 7:30 pm. Patrons enjoying a meal before the show are advised to arrive between 11 am and 12 noon for the afternoon performance and between 5:00 pm and 6:00 pm for the evening performance. For complete details and to purchase tickets visit www.RosebudTheatre.com or call the box office at 1-800-267-7553.
I met Dan Stephenson about eight years ago at a two-day event called WordCamp. WordCamp was a conference people could attend in order to learn more about how to use WordPress and build websites. I sat in on a couple of his sessions and I remember him telling everyone when they’re starting out that rather than paying for an expensive website the first thing they should do is build their own website and play around with it. Then once their business grows to a point where they can’t handle everything they need their website to do – that’s when they should give him a call. So, I did.
What I wanted was a website where I could publish a blog and provide a way for people to download my plays. And that’s what I have. And as part of my blog, I do interviews with other creative people in order to talk with them about their passions and creative process. And one of those people I’ve long wanted to interview and include in my blog is Dan. Because Dan isn’t just passionate about web design, he’s also passionate about magic, and podcasting, as well as being a highly regarded and popular web design instructor at the Southern Alberta Institute of Technology.
You can find out more about Dan at his website danstephenson.ca or tune into his podcast at firesidechat.ca where for the last thirteen years Dan and Matt Duborg have hosted a weekly fan focused discussion about the Calgary Flames. And if you’re looking for an emcee or booking Dan for some close-up magic for your event or holiday party then check out Dan’s magician and emcee website at magicdan.ca.
***
SECTION ONE: ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE
JAMES HUTCHISON
Let’s start by talking about artificial intelligence. A couple of years ago I was watching YouTuber Tom Scott, and he was talking about artificial intelligence and how he felt that there was potential for it to change the world like the microchip has or the smartphone has. And AI is here to stay. Large language models are here. They are impacting work. They are offering a lot of tools. What are some of the impacts you think AI will have on the world?
DAN STEPHENSON
The way I’ve been talking about this with people is reminding them that in the industrial revolution we thought the machines would take our jobs and here we are still working.
If we look at other Canadians who work in Ontario in auto manufacturing, they work alongside machines to build cars. Machines haven’t taken their jobs. There are some jobs the machines are better at. Some the humans are better at. And they’ve learned how to work together. Humans are still needed in the process. And I think AI is going to be very similar.
Will there be jobs lost? Sure. There were jobs lost when cars came in too. Nobody needed a horse and buggy driver, but new jobs were created. When the self-checkout came in people said we’d lose jobs. Now we have grocery delivery people that we didn’t have ten years ago.
So, I think jobs will change. Some jobs will definitely go away. But like you say AI is here to stay, but I don’t think the large language model is the final form of AI if you will. Version one is never the end result, and I’d say we’re still on version one.
One of the ways I’m using it at work is I often get the same e-mail from students over and over and over again. It’s not worth my time nor was I hired to be an e-mail answerer. So, I have a LLM analyze my inbox and say the last seven times you were sent this e-mail by a student this was the answer. I never want the LLM to write the final product but if it can answer that e-mail and put it in the drafts folder for me to review then I can look at the draft and say yes, I approve of that or no, I want to tweak it a little bit – and it saves me time. Right now, we’re using these like chatbots in a way but there’s so many other things that we can use them for if we think of them as assistants.
JAMES
I can see it replacing things like writing commercials because so many commercials are just a formula. Name of sale. Bargain item. The address of the business. So, I can see for a lot of things AI would make sense, but I think you still need somebody to look at it.
DAN
Oh, sure. And we need that with any machine, right. We always need a human to look after the machine. Whether it’s an escalator or a rocket ship there’s always a human in charge of the machine and this will be the same.
And I think we’ll go from large language models to small language models. There’s nothing else in your computer that you use one application for. You use Word for word processing. You use Excel for spreadsheets. You use Gmail for e-mail. But we tend to try to use one LLM for everything.
I think there will be a point where if you need legal advice you will go to Legal AI. If you need financial advice, you’ll go to Finance AI. And you’ll have smaller more dedicated AI models trained for one topic. I think you could have one for building a deck if you wanted to. We could have one for home improvement. Maybe sponsored by This Old House or something. I think you’ll get these small language models you’ll subscribe to as you need them.
JAMES
What do you think artificial intelligence has taught us about human creativity and human abilities because often we gain insights when we compare one thing to another.
DAN
The biggest thing I’ve learned from seeing people use AI is, I think, that it shows how poor we are at critical thinking and the critical evaluation of content. I like to call LLMs the Alexafication of the internet.
Many years ago, we all got used to having an Alexa in our house and asking it for one answer. What is the weather? When was Tom Brady born? How old is Tim Allen? Things like that. We didn’t want to go look for the ten blue links in Google and vet the source and do the research. And for me the way I see a lot of people use these is as a search tool for give me the one right answer. And I think we’re losing that ability to say, “Okay, who posted this? Oh, it’s COVID-19 information. Do I want to get it from Joe Rogan or the CDC?” Right. What is the AI giving me and where is it getting it from and who is giving me that. And I think that’s the biggest thing I’ve seen in terms of human nature.
On the creativity side I think there’s always been a notion for handmade. Even now if you go to a festival handmade purses will sell for more than machine made purses. You know we’ve had computer generated art. We’ve had things like that. But I think that people want for the most part and will pay for art made by humans and creativity made by humans. I don’t think anyone is going to pack a Broadway Theatre to see a musical written by an AI. I think that there will always be a place for humans to do what humans do best and I think that’s to be creative.
SECTION TWO: SOCIAL MEDIA
JAMES
I wanted to talk a little bit about social media. I notice that you’re on social media including what I still call Twitter, and you post regularly often with a humourous twist or a comic idea. And I think social media is flawed in a number of ways. Facebook to me was always a weird thing because it was always three audiences. You had family. You had friends. And you had co-workers, and Facebook put these three groups into one social group that maybe in a small town it used to be that way but often those were individual spheres in our lives. And so, I think it’s fundamentally flawed. What do you think about how social media is designed and where do you see it heading?
DAN
Remember what Facebook was originally. It was just for college kids. So, it was never designed to be what it is. And I think it opened up, and people just started to add anybody, and I think that Facebook got away from the creators because of what we wanted it to be. And I think at one point people weren’t thinking about social media the way we do now. We didn’t think we were going to post stuff we didn’t want our boss to see. I mean if you look at early social media it was the salad I’m eating for lunch. Here’s the picture of my birthday. It was all very mundane things. It was almost internet small talk in a way, and I think that we have evolved past the general-purpose social network.
I have my Facebook set up so I have different lists of people. And I can post different things to different groups but that takes a lot of work, and nobody knows how to do that. When I look at my Facebook feed most of it is not useful content. It’s people posting pictures of their kids or their grandkids. It’s people posting stuff like that or it’s all business marketing. I think that Facebook has really gone downhill because we don’t want that.
Where’s social media going is something I’ve been thinking about quite a bit. The thing I like about Mastodon is that anybody can start a Mastodon server. It’s all federated. And so, you can create your own community. You can decide if you want other communities to be part of it or not. I mean back in the day that’s what happened before social media. You would go to a Meetup with these people, or you would go to that event or this bar to talk to those people, and you get that sort of thing with Mastodon. So, let’s create this Mastodon for web developers or one for playwrights or one for you know grandparents in the city. I think we’re starting to see smaller social networks come up. I don’t know if your neighbourhood uses Nextdoor. I know mine does. It’s a social network just for local areas and local people. So, I think we’re seeing smaller social networks like that. I can tell you what my ideal social network would be but it’s never going to happen.
JAMES
I would love to hear what your ideal social network is.
DAN
I’ve always said that we should be in charge of our content. Instead of me posting it on Facebook or me posting on Twitter. I wish everybody had their own website of some kind. Call it a microblog and you post your own content there. And do you remember the days of RSS readers. We would just subscribe to the RSS reader for the people we want. So, I’d say, “Hey I like James. I’ll subscribe to James’s page. I’ll subscribe to my dad’s page. My mom’s page.” And then I can show different things to different people or post those differently on parts of my microblog, but I own it. It’s not on Facebook. It’s not on Twitter. It’s not on Mastodon. It’s not anywhere like that. It’s my content on my site to be portrayed how I want and if I want to get rid of it, I can do that as well. But it will never happen because there’s no money in that and the average person would not put up a site to do that.
JAMES
You know in order for societies to survive they have to have an ability to create consensus. And I originally saw social media as an opportunity to debate and eventually arrive at consensus. And I had hopes that social norms would evolve because it’s a social thing so social norms would develop so that people would figure out how to have civil conversations overall. But now I don’t know what’s going on. It seems to be very divisive and I’m wondering what’s happening. Is it a fault with the platforms or is it a fault with humanity.
DAN
The platforms try to get you to stay on there longer to see more ads. So, the platforms are going to show you what you want to see. And I think when you’re on Facebook you’re going to get the filter bubble, right. They’re going to show you your political views. They’re going to show you the things that are going to keep you there longer. I think that’s exactly how they’re designed. It’s showing you what you want to see so you can see their ads. I don’t think it’s the town square. I don’t think it’s designed to be the town square. I think Facebook was designed for you to talk to your family about things you like and things that work for you. I’ve thought about how could you engineer the town square and in our current society I don’t know that it would work. I think Reddit is the closest thing we get to that and even that does not work most of the time.
JAMES
Yeah, the great advantage of the internet and these platforms is it does gives voice to minorities and these people can find each other. However, it also gives voice to minorities who might have extreme views. And they can find each other.
DAN
And I think the issue too James is going back to what I was saying earlier I think we as humans also need to know better how to vet those voices.
JAMES
Yes, how many of us have found ourselves reposting something that on second examination was not exactly truthful or real or genuine.
DAN
Yes, but also truthful, real, and genuine can change based on who you are and what you believe to be the canonical sources. And I think we as a society need to do a better job to understand that. We don’t tend to stop and say let’s check the definitive source and that’s why I think Facebook can be so divisive because I’m seeing James and I trust James and James posted this. Well, did James fact check it?
And if you think back to when you got a newspaper – newspapers were fact checked by a publisher and an editor. I remember my mom once said, “There’s a lot more bad things going on in the world now.” And I said, “No there’s not mom. They just didn’t report on them in the Calgary Herald because it wasn’t relevant to you as a Calgarian. There were still children being abducted in Detroit and bombings happening in Gaza, but they didn’t affect you.” Now that we can see all of that and we don’t have an editor you have to be the editor. You have to be the publisher. And we don’t know how to do that.
JAMES
What do you think are some of the good things about social media?
DAN
I think social media is a great way for people to connect. I think we saw that during the pandemic. And I have family in the States and now I can see pictures of the grandchild or pictures from the soccer game. And I think social media gives everyone who wants a voice a voice and it lets us follow who we want to. If you like comedy, follow comedians. If you like sports, follow your sports team. I think it’s a great way to find your tribe.
SECTION THREE: MAGIC
JAMES
You have a long interest in magic. I know you perform at corporate events. You do weddings. Family functions. You do close-up magic. I’m wondering first where did that love of magic begin and secondly what do you think it is audiences love about the art of illusion?
DAN
I think as a kid I was always a performer. I was into stand-up. I was into improv. I was into performing every chance I could. One of the things I loved best about being in scouts was getting to do skits around the campfire. I think I’ve always been a performer. I think magic was another way to do that.
When I was in high school there were the band kids. There were the drama kids. There were the kids who could play an instrument. Nobody was doing magic. And it was a neat way to get some attention. And it almost becomes addicting. I mean, you see a reaction from somebody, and you want to do more of it and more of it and more of it and for me it was just another way to connect with people. I can go to a bar on my own and I can sit at the bar, and I can do some magic for the person next to me and immediately you have a connection instead of just making small talk with that person.
As far as why people love it. I think it’s a few things. I think there’s still this notion from a lot of people that magic is for children, and I don’t agree with that, but I think it gives us that childlike wonder so many of us lose when we become adults. When we know how everything works. It’s our job to understand the world. It’s our job to know what’s going on in our lives and if for five minutes I can make you forget some of that and feel a little bit more like a child everybody loves that.
I think also, we’ve always had a wonder of the magical and the mystical and the not knowing. I mean look back at human history and how many stories there are about fairies and elves and all these things that don’t exist. We like that kind of mysticism in our life.
And the magic I do is close up magic where it’s right in somebody’s hand and I think when you’re seeing it and it’s happening to you it makes it that much more special than if it’s happening on a stage. And for a second you wonder am I magical. Did that guy really do that right in front of my eyes. It’s not TV. It’s not a screen like we’re so used to seeing. It’s something live and in person.
Dan Stephenson
JAMES
Who’s a favourite magician. I mean there are some amazing ones. I love Penn and Teller. And you know at the Fringe Festival you’ll get a magician, and I almost always go to a Fringe Festival Magic show because I know what I’m getting. I love illusions.
DAN
I think there are different answers to that. So, I mean Penn and Teller I love. They’re a great set of magicians but that’s a very different type of show than what I do. You need a warehouse and a crew and a stage because it’s like touring a rock show. But in terms of my favourite magicians, it would probably be people you’ve never heard of like Doug Henning who was born in Winnipeg. And a gentleman named Michael Ammar out of the states. He’s someone who I bought early training tapes from in the 80s. He was one of the top training magicians that trained you how to do magic. And so, I fell in love with him because he was my teacher in a way if that makes sense. You always love that person teaching you. And then there’s a gentleman out of Ontario named Jay Sankey. And I loved growing up that he was Canadian and he had some really innovative ideas when I was getting into magic. And he has a similar sense of humour to me. So, he was someone that I emulated.
JAMES
How important is mentorship in magic and then beyond magic for life. What are your thoughts about that?
DAN
I think we all need somebody that’s doing the thing we want to do. Whether that’s magic. Whether that’s being a better playwright. Whether that’s being a politician. You know someone that has gone before us and can provide us sage advice. What to do. What not to do. That sort of thing is to me a mentor. But I also think a good mentor has to let you try and fail and get yourself back up.
I think one of the issues we have today in society is so many people are introverts and want to stay in their house and learn from reading the internet and I think we need to get out and deal with human beings. I mean even WordCamp, which is where you and I met, was a form of mentorship, right. It was people who weren’t great with WordPress coming to meet all the geeks who knew what they’re doing. A lot of people think mentoring is almost like a knighting ceremony where thou shalt be my mentor from here on out. But I think just learning from those that have gone before you is a form of mentorship and I think it’s hugely important.
SECTION FOUR: TEACHING
JAMES
So, we were talking about performance. Because you’re not just a magician, you also emcee events. You’re also an instructor at SAIT. And all of those mean you have to stand up before an audience. And when I think about teachers that I admired in school they didn’t just teach they made learning fun. So, what are the differences and similarities between presenting a magic show and teaching students.
DAN
I think my performing background has made me a better teacher. This generation has a short attention span. It’s my job as a teacher to be able to engage you. Grab your attention. And you’re a writer so you know the story arc – beginning, middle, and end. For each class there needs to be a story. There needs to be a beginning – a problem. I’ll let you guys try to solve it. Oh, you couldn’t solve it. Let me show you how I’d solve it. And a conclusion. And I think that magic is very much the same. How are we going to make the card jump from my hand to your hand? How are we going to make the dove appear. And I like to think I’m not an entertainer nor an educator. I’m an edutainer. And my job is fifty percent the material and fifty percent making it engaging and teaching you in a way that you will be engaged. But I also have to tap it down because I don’t want to be the jester. I don’t want people to come to class just to hear the jokes and see the magic and not take part in class.
Dan Stephenson
JAMES
I do have to ask. Is Edutainer on your business card?
DAN
SAIT won’t put it on there but if I was running my own consultancy, it would be.
JAMES
You’ve been teaching now for a number of years – how has your teaching evolved over time.
DAN
I think when I first started like so many teachers I wanted everyone to like me and today, I don’t really care if you like me or not. I’m not here to be your friend. I’m here to get you industry ready. And that’s what SAIT has always prided itself on. We have two years to get you from wherever you are to being employable. And I think I focus on treating the classroom more like a workplace than I used to. I mean now if somebody doesn’t come to class I don’t care. At one point I felt hurt that you didn’t come to my class. Now the way I look at it I’m going to teach the class whether you’re there or not. If you missed it, your problem not mine. I think in my early days I was trying to help everybody. I was trying to make sure they got what they needed. I was trying to make sure their homework was done. Now, I’ve realized if you’re not doing your work, I can’t do that work for you. I can’t chase you around and make sure your work is done and make sure you’re understanding – you have to meet me halfway.
SECTION FIVE: WEB DESIGN
JAMES
So, let’s talk about websites and branding. And you’ve been building websites for a long time – I was reading on your website that your parents got you a computer and the internet, and you went “Wow!”
DAN
Back in 1997.
JAMES
1997. Wow and so you know websites are a great opportunity for artists and individuals with a passion for a topic to have a presence and a place to connect. But not everyone knows best how to design a website. What are a few things people should really be aware of when they’re looking at that first website for whatever they want to do.
DAN
I think too often we look at a website as a piece of art, and I would look more at your website like a business card. Get the important information front and centre. If nothing else your website should have your name. What you do. And how to contact you. If you can’t do anything else put those things on a webpage.
I think too often we’re looking for big images and videos and stuff like that that really just wastes my time and I’m not finding what I want. We’re trying to do these snazzy designs that are really neat to look at but aren’t that functional. So, I think boil it down to who are you. What do you do. And why do I want to buy it from you. And one thing I tell my students is, every website is designed to sell something – a product, a service, or an idea. Figure out what you’re selling and who you’re selling it to and what information those people need to buy it. Whether you’re running for mayor or selling shoes or want to be hired as a consultant.
JAMES
Well, I think the other important thing is search engine optimization. So on that first page just having a two-line introduction about who you are and what you do and what people can get there is really important for Google and other search engines so they can go – oh this guy is a playwright. This guy is a jewellery maker. This guy is a web developer.
DAN
There’s a lot of people out there who charge a lot of money for search engine optimization. The big rule that Google says that I always remind people is – if humans like it – Google will like it. Build it for humans not for robots. The biggest thing Google is looking for is just trying to find the words that are relevant to what you do on the page. So, like you said a simple description of here’s what I do and here’s where I do it. I’m a Calgary based Jewellery maker. I’m an Edmonton based blacksmith. That’s going to do a lot more for you than you think.
SECTION SIX: FIRESIDE CHAT PODCAST
JAMES
One of the other things you do is a podcast called the Fireside Chat.
DAN
Yes. Thirteenth year.
JAMES
I did listen to your first episode this year. It’s your 14th Season of the Fireside Podcast. And it’s you and Matt Deborg.
DAN
Matt Deborg yup.
JAMES
And you host Fireside Chat and it’s a podcast focused on The Calgary Flames. So, I’m interested in knowing the origin story of this podcast and what makes you and Matt such big fans of the Flames.
Dan Stephenson
DAN
It’s sort of like what we were talking about earlier that makes the web powerful is that anyone can have a voice. When I was a kid, I always had this desire to be some sort of a broadcaster. I always thought it would be neat to be on the radio. I used to record my own recaps of Flames games I’d watched. I think we all did some of that to some extent, but I knew I never wanted to get into radio, and then Podcasting came out, and it was a way for anyone to have a voice. And I’ve never been good at written content. I’ve always felt I’ve been better orally. To describe and talk about things as they’re happening instead of writing a paper or writing a position on something.
So, one day I thought this would be neat and Matt and I went to a bar and talked hockey and recorded it and put it online and a hundred people listened. And it’s like, okay there’s something here. And I think the thing that people love James is – we’re trying to do things differently. We’re not the big radio station that has to fill eight hours a day of Flames content and we’re not going to make a mountain out of a mole hill just to fill time. People ask, how long is your show? And I say as long as we need to talk about this week’s story. And we want you to feel like we’re your Flames friends sitting around talking hockey. And we have a lot of people say, “I’m not living in Calgary. I don’t have Flames friends around me, or I’m new to the city and I don’t know a lot of fans. You guys are a great way to get into the team from a fan perspective.”
JAMES
Well, from a fan perspective the new season is just starting up. It’s the 17th of September. So, what are your thoughts about the kind of season we’re going to see from the Flames. What are your hopes and expectations as a fan?
DAN
I’ve had to learn as a broadcaster that my hopes and my expectations are often different. This team’s rebuilding. This team is going through a bit of a resurgence and bringing young talent through the organization. Something they’ve really never done properly. In the 90s they did it but it’s more because they couldn’t afford to compete with the U.S. teams when there was no salary cap. If you look at Stanley Cup teams, they usually are very bad and then they get better. Then they have this pinnacle of you know a four-year window and then they get bad again.
The Flames have been perpetually bad to mediocre and so I think this is their chance to rebuild. Yes, it sucks as a fan, but let’s let the young players play. Let’s let the young players make mistakes. Let’s let the young players learn this game and in three years or whenever the new arena is ready, we might be able to compete and go on a real run.
I always look at Fireside Chat as what’s the story this week and that’s the way that we prep our show. And the story of the season is going to be how the young guys develop. I mean Dustin Wolfe great story last year. Can he continue that? Will he look as good. Will he step back? What will we get out of some of these young players like Connor Zary and Zayne Parekh. They’re going to make mistakes. How do they bounce back when they make a mistake. I think this year’s story is the young players learning the NHL game.
JAMES
Do you think enough people allow for that cycle in terms of a team.
DAN
I think fans know its coming but I think fans want instant gratification and they always want their team to do well. And we see this on social media. We see a lot of fans out there saying the Flames won a game they should trade for this top guy, and they just want their team to win every year, and I don’t think fans want to invest in the down years.
JAMES
I think there are the fans who have realistic expectations and as a fan all they expect from the team is that the players are giving it their all. That the coaches are dedicated to it. That the management is behind them.
DAN
Yeah, and that’s what I’ve said, as long as the Flames are doing the best they can that’s all I care about. And you know I think a lot of people don’t care how well The Flames do as long as they do better than the Oilers. And I think some of that is the tribalism as well, right. My team needs to do well because it’s my tribe and it’s part of my identity and that sort of thing.
But when I look online, I don’t think people understand the business of the sport. They just want their team to win now, and they don’t understand that they need to be bad for a couple of years. And also, people don’t understand these are human beings. It’s not your Xbox game where you can just trade whoever you want. These are human beings that when we talk about trading or moving, we have to factor that in too.
JAMES
So, when it comes to life or trying to win the Stanley Cup how much of that is mental and how much of that is physical and how much of that is luck do you think.
DAN
I think it’s more mental and psychological – I’d use both words – than people give it credit for. I mean a lot of its mental. You’ve got to be willing to say, “Yeah, maybe I had a bad game, but I need to brush that off and keep going.” I think we also don’t realize the psychological toll being an athlete takes on these guys. I’ve talked to a few of them, and they say we travel in the middle of the night from city to city. I sometimes have no idea where I am when I wake up. I’m in another hotel that looks just like the last hotel. I was in New York but it’s not like I left and saw the Statue of Liberty. We travel at one in the morning. I haven’t seen my kids for two weeks. I think those are the kind of things that can get in their head and keep them from playing the way they need to play and that’s why I say mental and psychological. You know you have one bad game and you’re getting booed by the away fans and that gets in your head, and I think there’s sort of the hockey mentality and also you need to remember you need to have a work kind of mentality as well. This isn’t your whole life. This is your job, and you’ve got to find a way to go do it.
I think it’s more mental than you might think. And we often see that in the finals where one team will lose but then come back and win. And you can tell that it’s their will to win that gets them there. And you know, let’s be honest, all these guys are the best at what they do. There’s no bad NHL player. I mean there’s relatively poor NHL players but they’re a hundred times better than you or I. These are all the best players in the world so theoretically any group of twenty-five of them should be able to beat any other group of twenty-five of them on any given night.
SECTION SEVEN: PASSIONS
JAMES
We’ve talked about a lot of different things, and you do a lot of different stuff. I’m curious to know how passion plays a part in your life because you don’t do 400 podcasts over 14 seasons unless you have some passion for the Flames and hockey. And you don’t perform magic unless you have a passion for it. And you don’t get up in front of a class and teach students – I don’t think – unless you have a passion for the subject matter. So, how does passion play a part in your life?
DAN
I think I learned early on in my life that I want to pursue my passions. I want to do the things that bring me joy or intrigue me or make me think. I want to share my passions and follow my passions. I don’t want to do things I’m not passionate about. Because to me it’s a waste of time. I mean there are things we all have to do. Dishes aren’t passion. Laundry’s not passion. But for those major buckets of my life, I want to spend my time doing the things I love to do. And not only love to do but I can give back somehow. My Flames knowledge. My web development knowledge at SAIT. My ability to perform for an audience. I think part of my passion is not just what I love but how I can share it with the world. And I won’t take on something new unless I’m passionate about it. There’s a tonne of things I would love to do but I know I don’t have the time to get into them the way I’d want to and really become passionate so is it worth diving in halfway. And I think we all know that person in our life that every week has a new hobby. And hasn’t really found their passion. And I guess I’m fortunate that I found so many of them in my life.
JAMES
So, I have one last question. People talk about a perfect day, but I’m interested in what sorts of things would make a perfect year and if you had a year where you could plan and do whatever you wanted regardless of real-life limitations how would you spend your time? What would you do?
DAN
Since you sent me that question, I’ve been thinking a lot about it because that’s so, I guess blue sky it’s hard for me to go there. I think in a perfect year I would like to be able to pursue the passions I want in the dosages I want. I mean I love teaching, but it would be really cool for a year if I could follow the Flames and go to all thirty buildings and see what they all look like. I would love to get the chance to perform magic in a Vegas theatre or a large theatre and pursue that passion. I guess it would be a year where I could pursue my passions to the level I like even if it means failing. Even if I book a big theatre and just two people come to see my magic show at least I tried it, right. I’m not afraid of failing. And if we’re going to make this blue sky I’ve always wanted to be the host of The Price Is Right so if I’m going to have a perfect year I would love to host at least a handful of episodes of The Price Is Right and since I’d be in California I might as well perform at the Magic Castle as well while I’m there.
***
To learn more about Dan, visit his website at danstephenson.ca. You can also listen to his long-running weekly podcast about the Calgary Flames at firesidechat.ca, where Dan and his co-host Matt share insights and stories for dedicated fans of the Flames. And if you’re interested in hiring Dan as an emcee or booking him for some close-up magic for your corporate event or holiday party, check out his magic and emcee services at magicdan.ca.
Austin Halarewich, Graham Percy, Photo by Fifth Wall Media
Kidnapping, blackmail, and murder are all being served up in the Vertigo Theatre production of Peril in the Alps by Steven Dietz.
Bella Duveen has vanished, and Arthur Hastings can think of no one better to find his sister-in-law than his good friend Hercule Poirot – a master sleuth who has saved Bella once before. Coincidentally, Poirot has just taken on a missing persons case that seems eerily similar – are they connected? And how are these disappearances intertwined with past mysteries that have already been solved? With the suspicion of a greater scheme at play, Poirot must travel to the snow-capped Alps, where the famed Belgian detective may finally meet his match. Six actors bring to life dozens of eccentric characters and clever suspects in this diabolically funny mystery romp.
The only question is – are you able to match wits with our famous Belgium detective and solve the mystery before he does? To find out catch Peril in the Alps from November 15th to December 14th and get your tickets from the Vertigo Theatre Box Office by phone at 403.221.3708 or online at vertigotheatre.com.
I contacted the director of the play Clare Preuss, who was in the middle of rehearsals, in order to talk with her about the enduring appeal of Poirot and the magic of theatre.
Clare Preuss Director of the Vertigo Theatre production of Peril in Paris
JAMES HUTCHISON
So, lets talk a little bit about the cast. You’ve got Graham Percy playing Hercule Poirot and Austin Halarewich playing Hastings. Rounding out the cast you’ve got Tyrell Crews, Linda Kee, Heidi Damayo and Aiden Laudersmith all of who are playing multiple roles in the production. So, tell me about the cast you’ve assembled for this production and what sort of an ensemble you’ve put together.
CLARE PREUSS
They’re just fantastic. And to fully manifest a show like this the actors have to be virtuosic. There’s a level of skill that is needed. The ability to drop into characters really quickly and the ability to play a character with authentic intentions and with authentic tactics and then to also play something that’s arched because there’s an arched element to the show. So, I think being able to find folks who have that dexterity is really incredible.
And then for me I always want to hire people and work with people that are generous. That are willing to take risks. And all of them are. And they’re all so funny. I mean there are so many moments that they’ve come up with in the room where they just play off each other and they’re willing to be vulnerable. And that’s really important. They’re an incredible cast and every single one of them has shining moments in this story.
The Cast of PERIL IN THE ALPS, Photo by Fifth Wall Media
And then Austin and Graham really have to carry the show, and they have to play friends that have known each other for many years and it’s incredible what they’ve come up with.
And if anyone knows Graham Percy’s vast experience in the community and the roles, he’s played watching his Poirot is something stunning. He’s got this balance. You just believe he’s that smart. That he puts together the clues the way Poirot does. And then you also feel this heart.
I said to him the other day in rehearsal, “Your Poirot is so smart and also has a heart the size of a mountain.” And I think that’s really beautiful because Poirot is in service to people. But he’s also conceited as hell. He knows he’s smart. And so, I think having that edge – someone who’s very sure of themselves and also someone who can be very generous and care is again really special.
And Austin is fresh out of the gate. I mean he’s such a youngster but wow stunning. A stunning, nuanced, generous, present performance. I think he’s got a huge career ahead of him.
Graham Percy, Linda Kee, Austin Halarewich, Photo by Fifth Wall Media
JAMES
Some of the best comedies in the world center around murder and mayhem such as Arsenic and Old Lace or Dr. Strangelove. What is it about these high stakes stories where death looms that makes them such an ideal vehicle for laughter and farce.
CLARE
The one thing we know when we come onto planet earth is that we’re going to die. And it’s something that we don’t talk about that often, so these stories take that taboo and make fun of it. And even though we can be killed so easily – as a society most of us agree we’re not going to kill each other. So, I think there’s something fun in bringing up a completely immoral, illegal, taboo act and laughing at it. And to think about it in a playful way because we know we’re not allowed to do it. But there’s something tantalizing about the forbidden fruit idea of it. And I love laughing at things that are deeply serious. It’s naughty and cathartic and I think people like being naughty.
Tyrell Crews, Linda Kee, Photo by Fifth Wall Media
JAMES
You know I saw Liars at a Funeral which you directed at ATP last year and it was a very funny show but one of the parallels between that play and this play and a lot of plays these days is they might have one or two people who play a single character and then they’ve got a cast that are playing multiple characters and that seems to be very common now and I’m wondering what sort of elements to a production does that type of casting and that type of story telling create?
CLARE
That’s part of the fun, right. Watching people transform. And this particular show is written for the TikTok generation. I say that because the scenes are short. There’s lots of stuff to look at all the time. And that’s the play written and then we’ve leaned into that with the production where there’s so much happening on stage all the time. In a good way. And it’s still focused.
Obviously, budgets have influenced the desire for actors to take on multiple characters. But I also think in a world where we can see so much on TV and on our phones at the drop of a hat where we see big casts and people playing specific characters all the way through – that there’s something fun about the poetic nature of theatre that really lends itself to people taking on different roles. And that’s certainly true with this show with the number of costumes and quick changes happening. It’s like watching a high wire act, right. There’s a joy in watching that kind of stuff.
Tyrell Crews, Aidan Laudersmith, Heidi Damayo, Austin Halarewich, Photo by Fifth Wall Media
JAMES
So, Peril in the Alps by Stephen Dietz is a sequel to last year’s Murder on the Links and both plays focus on Hercule Poirot. And even though the plays have a lot of laughs they maintain the core characteristics of Poirot, and I wonder what are those qualities of Poirot in the plays that make him such an enduring and loved character in the world.
CLARE
Well, I think it’s his psyche. His ability to be present. To not just be witnessing something but to be really aware of it. Aware of the minutiae in a moment in a case. To follow the evidence and not his emotions. To remain somewhat detached and to be able to piece together very simple clues that other people skip over because they’re not actually paying attention. They’re just watching. So, his ability to be so fast and put things together so quickly is lovely. And his desire to serve people is I think something that’s endearing.
And then I think we love a character that’s a bit conceited. We love a character that is sure of himself. We love a character like that because we are taught that you shouldn’t do that in the world. We should be modest and not toot our own horn. So, I think a part of what we enjoy about Poirot is that he has the courage to sit in pleasure. This brings me pleasure and I’m doing it. So, he does that very clearly. And then to know that you’re good and to know and be clear about knowing that you’re brilliant. And he knows he’s the best.
He’s also very solitary. Never been married. He’s kind of a mystery at home. There’s something about that containment that’s magic. Mystery is magic. So, his life is magic and there’s something I think about the lone wolf part of him that I find very attractive too. Like this interesting guy who is able to go into other worlds, but his world is actually quite private. So, there’s something cool about that.
Tyrell Crews, Linda Kee, Austin Halarewich, Graham Percy, Photo by Fifth Wall Media
JAMES
For audiences coming to see Peril in the Alps which blends suspense and comedy and includes a cast playing multiple characters what kind of an evening can they expect as they take their seats, and the curtain rises, and the story unfolds.
CLARE
It’s amazing. I mean Naomi is right over here and we just had a run through. She’s the stage manager. She’s brilliant. We just had a run through earlier today and we both looked at each other after the run through and we’re like it goes so fast and it’s really like a roller coaster ride. You get on at the beginning of Act I and it just comes to life so quickly and with so much detail and the precision of it is so entertaining.
So, it’s fast paced and I say it’s great for all generations. There are some people who are going to know Poirot and are going to know his cases in depth. But you can bring your kids, and they’ll be like – “Oh, my God. That’s amazing! Oh, lights. Flashing. Sound. Oh, I learned something. Oh, there’s a bit of a mystery here I can follow. Oh, it’s funny.” Like it’s very poppy in that way.
And it’s a totally solvable mystery and people like to peace together clues. And it’s just so fast paced and funny and the characters are so charming. The set design is gorgeous. And the lighting is by Anton deGroot who is amazing. And we have Peter Moller one of our iconic sound designers in town creating the sound. And then watching people get in and out of all these costumes is fun. So, it’s like getting on a roller coaster and watching a high wire act where you throw in a solvable mystery and laugh your butt off and there’s a night at the theatre I’d pay for.
Austin Halarewich, Graham Percy, Photo by Fifth Wall Media
JAMES
Hey – before I let you go – you know these days we have things called social media.
CLARE
Oh yeah.
JAMES
And I follow you on Instagram.
CLARE
Oh, you do. I should follow you back. Do I follow you back?
JAMES
You do actually. But I’ve got to tell you, I like looking at your Instagram feed because it shows all the amazing people you work with and all the amazing work you’re doing, and I was wondering if you can help me with one thing. On your Instagram account you describe yourself as an Artistic Director / Director / Actor / Creator / Meditator / and an Eternal Optimist.
CLARE
Yes.
JAMES
That’s what I need help with. I tend to see the dark side of things. So, how do you become an eternal optimist? Is it your nature? Is it something you foster? Is it an attitude?
CLARE
I’ve always had a very buoyant personality, but I’ve also had some really really tough stuff that came my way at a very young age. And it’s interesting because when I started theatre school my classmates were like, “Ah she’s the youngest in the class. She’s so irritating. She’s always so happy.” And I was like – well I can tell you my life story – this is earned happiness. And I won’t go into it now, but life has thrown me many curveballs, and I think the only way to get through it with a sense of joy is to believe – not just believe at this point – but to know that everything is always going to work out. And don’t take things too seriously. What’s the worst thing that’s going to happen? You’re going to die. And we’re all going to die anyway. So maybe it’s just my dark side that makes it deeply macabre and funny. (Laughs) I don’t know.
The Cast of PERIL IN THE ALPS, Photo by Fifth Wall Media
JAMES
Well then how do you think theatre help us find joy and optimism.
CLARE
I love everyone that creates theatre. The people who actually put their bodies on that stage – like the actors who get up there every night – they are front line workers. Because what we’re doing in theatre I think is showing people that you can have the courage to live beyond the mundane. And for me that is just huge because I think rather than compare yourself with everybody on social media and to constantly be putting yourself in boxes you should free yourself and imagine something beyond the mundane.
And I think there’s something beautiful about the liveness of theatre that you can be present with other people in this dark space. It’s magical. It can change the way you think about the world. It can change the way you feel about yourself. It can help you process really hard things. It can also help you laugh at life and escape some of the drama that feels so serious around us. So, I think theatre offers a lot of different things and I think this particular show stokes the whimsey in us. It stokes the child like nature in us. It stokes our sense of imagination and possibility. And there’s a lot of daring in the show and so, I think it makes us a bit more daring.
***
Vertigo Theatre Presents Peril in the Alps by Stephen Dietz based in part on Agatha Christie’s Poirot Investigates from November 15th to December 14th. Tickets are available from the Vertigo Theatre Box Office by phone at 403.221.3708 or online at vertigotheatre.com.
Devon Brayne, Jamie Konchak, Emily Howard and Doug McKeag in The Legend of Sleepy Hollow. Photo by Abigaile Edwards, courtesy of Banff Centre for Arts and Creativity. Set, Puppet & Costume Design by The Old Trout Puppet Workshop. Lighting Design by Sonoyo Nishikawa.
This October The Legend of Sleepy Hollow comes alive on the Alberta Theatre Projects stage featuring all your favourite characters including Ichabod Crane, Katrina Van Tassel, Brom Bones and of course the Headless Horseman. The story has been expanded to dive deeper into the murky waters of post-Revolutionary America and the politics and superstitions of the time. The play is being penned by Anna Cummer and Judd Palmer and features Matthew Mooney as Ichabod, Emily Howard as Katrina, and Devon Brayne as Brom. Rounding out the cast is Christopher Clare, Jamie Konchak, Doug McKeag, and Alice Wordsworth.
The play is being produced in association with the Banff Centre for Arts and Creativity and is being brought to life by the twisted genius of The Old Trout Puppet Workshop which includes Judd Palmer, Pete Balkwill, and Pityu Kenderes along with the rest of the design team including lighting designer Sonoyo Nishikawa and sound designer Andrew Blizzard.
The play runs from October 22nd to November 9th at the Martha Cohen Theatre in the Werklund Centre which was formally known as Arts Commons. Tickets are available at albertatheatreprojects.com or by calling 403-294-7402
***
I contacted the director of the play Craig Hall, who was out in Banff along with the entire creative team making final preparations for the play’s premiere, in order to ask him about this particular adaptation and how it evolved.
JAMES HUTCHISON
So, stories like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, Dracula, and The Legend of Sleepy Hollow continue to be retold and reimagined even centuries after they were first shared with people. What is it about these myths, ghost stories, and tales of the supernatural that allows them to transcend their original time and place and still resonate with a modern audience?
CRAIG HALL
I think it’s good storytelling. You know with all the right tension and with all the right sort of secrets and mystery. And audiences love being scared. And I don’t just mean theatre audiences. Look at the horror genre. It’s massive. And so these stories are classics because it’s great storytelling and because audiences love to be scared.
JAMES
Who hasn’t hidden around the corner and gone boo at one of their unsuspecting family members.
CRAIG
Exactly. It’s in us. That love of being surprised and the adrenaline rush that is caused by something being unknown or unexplainable. And the mystery genre in fiction is one of the biggest genres in the world and has been for a long time. Even if it’s a straight-ahead drama or comedy, there’s always an element of mystery in everything that I’m drawn to because it’s more than just an intellectual experience, it’s a physical experience as well. And it makes us active. We’re an active participant in the story. And I would suggest that every ghost story is a mystery although not every mystery is a ghost story.
Doug McKeag, Matthew Mooney, Jamie Konchak and Emily Howard in The Legend of Sleepy Hollow. Photo by Abigaile Edwards, courtesy of Banff Centre for Arts and Creativity. Set, Puppet & Costume Design by The Old Trout Puppet Workshop. Lighting Design by Sonoyo Nishikawa.
JAMES
This is a new play and it’s an adaptation of an existing story so as the director I’m wondering how you see your role first in working on the script and the story with the playwrights Anna Cummer and Judd Palmer. How did that process work.
CRAIG
It’s been a long process. Anna and Judd have been working on this since Covid. They were looking for something to tackle and they went with The Legend of Sleepy Hollow because it had the intrigue that they were looking for. It had the potential for the style that they were looking for. And it’s a story that’s in the public domain so they could do what they wanted with it.
I’ve been in and out of the process as a bit of a dramaturge with a directorial eye. And I’ve been involved in the workshops as we’ve gone along and that role kind of transforms from dramaturge to director through the course of the process. So, it’s been a real luxury to be involved with it from its inception.
Often as a director you’re coming into it just as somethings heading into production. But to be involved since the inception and to be able to nudge and contribute has been great. Anna and Judd are certainly the leads, but we’ve all had a little bit of input here and there and it’s been great working with the Old Trout Puppet Workshop and with Anna who is my partner of course.
And because the Trouts are so heavily involved the design almost develops alongside the play. Your usual process is the designers come in as you’re heading into production, but this play has had a design dramaturgy kind of lens, so the design evolved very organically. So, we’ve been able to create the play with the design in mind.
Alice Wordsworth, Devon Brayne, Jamie Konchak, Emily Howard, Christopher Clare. and Doug McKeag in The Legend of Sleepy Hollow. Photo by Abigaile Edwards, courtesy of Banff Centre for Arts and Creativity. Set, Puppet & Costume Design by The Old Trout Puppet Workshop. Lighting Design by Sonoyo Nishikawa.
JAMES
As you mentioned a core component of this adaptation of Sleepy Hollow is the The Old Trout Puppet Workshop who are bringing their puppetry and storytelling talents to the adaptation. In what ways does having puppetry expand the storytelling possibilities?
CRAIG
It’s interesting, I mean, because it’s the Trouts everybody assumes that it’s puppet-forward but in this case it’s more about the esthetic of the whole show. The Trouts are doing the costumes. They’re doing the props. They did the set. There’s some puppetry in the piece and everyone knows that the Headless Horseman is going to make an appearance at some point, but it’s less a puppet show than it is a Trout-driven esthetic. It’s almost like the humans are the puppets in a way. They act as narrators. They act as characters. And everything from their costumes to how they move through this world is a very Trout-driven esthetic.
Alice Wordsworth and Matthew Mooney in The Legend of Sleepy Hollow. Photo by Abigaile Edwards, courtesy of Banff Centre for Arts and Creativity. Set, Puppet & Costume Design by The Old Trout Puppet Workshop. Lighting Design by Sonoyo Nishikawa.
JAMES
So, as part of the process of bringing The Legend of Sleepy Hollow to the stage ATP teamed up with The Old Trout Puppet Workshop along with the Banff Centre for Arts and Creativity. In fact, as we’re doing this interview, you’re currently in Banff in rehearsals getting the play ready for its premiere. How did the opportunity to bring the play to the Banff Centre contribute to the development of the play both artistically and from a practical perspective.
CRAIG
I shouldn’t speak out of turn here, but the Banff Centre made this possible. Without the Banff Centre I’m not sure that ATP could have taken this project on. It was when the Banff Centre came on board that everything lurched forward and got under way. And last night Doug McKeag took us all out on a night time walk through the forest that he’d planned and the group recreated one of the ritual scenes that’s in the show and they came out of the forest with lanterns and you don’t get that kind of bonding beyond the rehearsal hall when everybody is living in their home and going home directly after work. So, it’s been such a privilege to be out here in such an extraordinary facility as an ensemble and to concentrate on the work.
Emily Howard and Matthew Mooney in The Legend of Sleepy Hollow. Photo by Abigaile Edwards, courtesy of Banff Centre for Arts and Creativity. Set, Puppet & Costume Design by The Old Trout Puppet Workshop. Lighting Design by Sonoyo Nishikawa.
JAMES
I read the original story The Legend of Sleepy Hollow by Washington Irving and one of the things that really stood out to me was just how clear and vivid the characters are in the story. Tell me about how these characters have been lifted from the page and put on stage to help tell the story.
CRAIG
It’s certainly not a traditional retelling of the story. Those basic characters of Katrina Van Tassel and Ichabod Crane and Brom Bones come from the original and the love triangle still exists but it’s an expanded world. It’s not as simple a story.
It’s got a lot of politics around the revolutionary war in it, and everybody is suffering a little bit of PTSD from the war and how the country was torn to pieces. So, Anna and Judd really dug into the history and what was happening at the time and how that parallels what’s happening now. The story goes far beyond the simple relationships of those three characters.
And Ichabod is very much a creature of survival. He will become whoever he needs to become in order to survive. You’ve got this character who’s out of his element and you’re really rooting for him but then his choices are not always correct morally. And what he believes to be true versus what’s actually true becomes this sort of interesting moral conundrum in the piece.
JAMES
You mentioned truth. Do you believe theatre’s role is to reveal truth?
CRAIG
I think its role is to wrestle with it. The most interesting theatre requires you to discern what the truth is. It offers both sides of an argument. And I think that’s what Anna and Judd have done. They want the audience to see there’s an ambiguity to it, and they want the audience to go I’m not sure who the hero is and whether or not they are a reliable narrator so that the audience is wrestling with that truth by the end. And I think they’ve put so much thought into the story and done a lovely job of it so that it ends up being a really satisfying journey and puzzle.
Matthew Mooney, Christopher Clare, Devon Brayne and Alice Wordsworth in The Legend of Sleepy Hollow. Photo by Abigaile Edwards, courtesy of Banff Centre for Arts and Creativity. Set, Puppet & Costume Design by The Old Trout Puppet Workshop. Lighting Design by Sonoyo Nishikawa.
JAMES
So, what kind of an experience are audiences going to have when they come to see the show?
CRAIG
I think at its base it’s a nice spooky experience with some beautiful ensemble storytelling. Some beautiful visuals. I think that people who know the story will love to see it expanded and to see these characters fleshed out.
And Judd and Anna are two of the smartest people I know. They both have their own fascinations. Judd loves chaos and Anna loves order. And you get to see these two things kind of battle inside of a script which makes for a really satisfying whole. I think that each of them individually would have written a very different piece, but together they wrote something that has a lot of complexity and depth.
And Ichabod calls himself a poet warrior. That’s his own self-aggrandizing definition of himself but words are what he uses for battle. It’s that idea that the pen is mightier than the sword and he’s going to change the world through his words, and he does but whether it’s for better or for worse remains to be seen.
***
Alberta Theatre Projects presents the world premiere of a brand-new Canadian adaptation of The Legend of Sleepy Hollow by Washington Irving. Co written by Anna Cummer and Judd Palmer and produced in association with the Banff Centre for Arts and Creativity and The Old Trout Puppet Workshop, this production presents an exciting multi-organizational collaboration that breathes new life into the enduring and haunting tale of the Headless Horseman.
The Legend of Sleepy Hollow runs until November 9th at the Martha Cohen Theatre in the Werklund Centre. Tickets are available at albertatheatreprojects.com or by calling 403-294-7402.
Rosebud Theatre’s The Green House with Kate Corrigan, Heather Pattengale, and Camille Pavlenko.
Rosebud Theatre presents the world premiere of The Green House, a new family drama that explores the changing nature of memory by Alberta playwright Krista Marushy. Tickets can be purchased at www.rosebudtheatre.com or by phone at 1-800-267-7553.
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The Green House travels through time and memory. In fact, the production is designed in such a manner that it feels like the play is not positioned in any single moment of time but instead flows between the past and the present revealing memories and relationships.
Heather Pattengale plays Susanne our haunted central character as an adult and Kate Corrigan plays the younger feistier version of Susanne known as Susu. In addition to Susu, there’s her roughhousing older brother Jameson played by Matthew Boardman and her domineering mother Kit who is also played by Heather Pattengale. Camille Pavlenko plays the mysterious and reclusive Ava Green who lives on the edge of town in what has come to be known as The Green House. Rounding out the cast is Nathan Schmidt who plays Struthers the peace maker who boards with Kit, Susu, and Jameson.
The Green House is a play that explores the changing nature of memory and how our understanding of ourselves and the people in our lives can be altered and changed as we gain a different perspective on past events. As part of the experience of seeing the play audiences are encouraged, in the program, to ask questions about their own memories and life mysteries and are invited to stay for talkbacks following the Friday evening and Saturday matinee performances.
The Green House is a challenging play to fully explain as doing so would give away too much of the plot however I was able to sit down over ZOOM with playwright Krista Marushy and ask her about the process of writing the play and what it was like to see The Green House reach the Rosebud Theatre stage and go out into the world.
KRISTA MARUSHY
When I started The Green House, I was in graduate school, and we were in a class that had very specific writing prompts and we had three days to execute it. The prompts for this particular play were an article I’d read in the newspaper that day, expressionism, an unreliable narrator, and two characters based on literary characters. And you had no time to think about it. You just had to go with it. The arch of the story was done in three days. And then I spent sixteen years fine tuning the details.
Playwright Krista Marushy
JAMES HUTCHISON
You look at memory and trauma in your play and you also look at it from three different points in time. Often the time periods even overlap within a single scene as actors inhabit characters at different moments in life. How much do you think time influences and alters our understanding and perception of past events and trauma.
KRISTA
I tend to think that feeling affects our memory more than time. So, we store a memory because it impacted us in some way. There are tonnes of things you and I both forget on a regular basis, but we can still remember being embarrassed by somebody in grade two. And there’s a study that came out of Northwestern that talks about how memory is more akin to the telephone game and the more you tell a story the more you remember the retelling than the actual memory. So, that shows how we actually are unreliable narrators of our own life. And as we tell ourselves the stories of why we are the way we are and who we are, and we communicate those to people over the years the story has shifted drastically from whatever the original facts were. That’s the science of it. That’s life.
JAMES
I think when people think about their lives they have these “Aha!” moments and that is a process of looking at a memory and understanding it from a different perspective. And in a sense, that’s sort of what happens in your play – there’s sort of an “Aha” moment where things fall into place that weren’t there before.
KRISTA
Yeah, and I just started writing the story from an intuitive place and then over the years I started to have more empathy for characters who weren’t necessarily the central characters. I think that the journey of the main character is ultimately having more empathy for some people that she originally saw in a limited way. And by revisiting the story and sort of walking a mile in their shoes she is seeing it from an older perspective and finding some empathy and forgiveness for things she didn’t necessarily see or understand at the time.
Rosebud Theatre’s The Green House with Matthew Boardman, Kate Corrigan, Heather Pattengale, and Nathan Schmidt.
JAMES
As a playwright you write it, but you need a creative team to put it together and get it on stage. So, lets talk about the creative team. Rosebud has assembled a great group of folks including Craig Hall who is directing the show. And you’ve got an amazing cast including Heather Pattengale, Camille Pavlenko, Nathan Schmidt, Matthew Boardman and Kate Corrigan. This is my first time seeing Matthew and Kate, but I’ve seen all the others many times and seen many shows directed by Craig. Just a terrific team. So, tell me about them and what they bring to the process and final production.
KRISTA
Well, it’s an incredible cast. I knew from the beginning I would be working with two students so that was always part of the deal with Rosebud and their organization. And Kate and Matthew have really done incredible work and I’m really proud of them. And then the three established professionals Heather, Nathan, and Camille of course are all incredible. So, it was a delight to see them bring the story to life.
Craig in particular was really helpful and instrumental especially in the first weeks of rehearsal because he gave such an open playground for the script to develop and I think he just approaches life with a very different brain than me. I’d say he looks at things more strategically and is always looking for clarity in a play that has all these layers of memory and expressionism. And that became a really important anchor for me. It was a really lovely counterpoint to have in rehearsals. Somebody who was simultaneously really generous and really intelligent and really insightful about the script, but someone also asking excellent questions and saying I’m missing something here but doing so very graciously and gently. That was incredibly helpful and necessary for the process of script development and for a first production.
And I feel like from the beginning the cast knew who these people were and they jumped in fully on board and that was an incredible gift to be in day three of rehearsal and feel like – they totally understand who these people are and what this is about and I can sit back and really look at how do we shape the text to heighten and highlight what’s already going on.
Artistic Director Rosebud Theatre Craig Hall
JAMES
In addition to the actors you have to have a design team and the show is beautiful and the set and the lighting and the sound is absolutely gorgeous and you’ve got Luke Ertman who’s doing the sound design, Dale Marushy – whom you might know – is doing the scenic design, the costume designer is Amy Castro, and the lighting designer is Michael K. Hewitt and they’re all contributing their talents to the production. So, tell me about the design elements and the look and feel of the show in terms of visuals and sound and how that encapsulates and helps tell the story.
KRISTA
I did not speak to the design elements even though I’m married to the set designer. I was like, “Don’t show me. I don’t want to know.” Because I knew he would do beautiful work, and I didn’t want to invade that process at all. I think the design team went wild in a beautiful way and I hope they were inspired. I think it was really important to have a set in a world that could constantly be shifting but you still feel grounded. So, things like transparency and visibility are important design elements and are themes in the show. And it feels like everything has an emotional texture and the design of the show gives a sense of time without restricting us and gives the story so much ability to move and transform and go from one place to another without any delay.
Rosebud Theatre’s The Green House with Kate Corrigan, Heather Pattengale, and Camille Pavlenko.
JAMES
You’ve been working on this play since 2009 and now here we are sixteen years later. When you saw the play on opening night what sort of thoughts went through your mind and what sorts of emotions did you go through as you watched the play come to life and go out into the world.
KRISTA
Well, first of all I will say though I’ve been working on this play for sixteen years I also had three children in that period, so it wasn’t like I was just typing away.
JAMES
So, you were producing a lot is what you’re trying to say.
KRISTA
Yeah, I had a lot of other productions during that time. So, yes, it’s been a long incubation period, but the essential story is still really close to what it’s been since the beginning. And I just have so many mixed feelings. It’s exciting. It’s vulnerable. It’s thrilling. There’s stuff I still want to fix because I’m a bit of a perfectionist. But you get to a place where you are excited to share it with the world, and I’m dazzled by the design and the creative team. There are so many feelings I have and then I also feel vulnerable because I don’t know if anyone is going to be into this. I feel like I took lots of creative risks and so I feel the trepidation of that, but I also feel really proud of that. Because I think that’s the kind of artist I want to be. Someone who takes a big swing and everything may not land but I’m really proud of the work.
Rosebud Theatre’s The Green House with Kate Corrigan and Matthew Boardman.
JAMES
So, why should people head out to Rosebud to see your play? The Green House. What are you hoping audiences can take away from the experience?
KRISTA
I think it’s a really original story. I think they will be surprised. And I think it’s also about having greater empathy and understanding for yourself and for your memories and for your own family. And also, it’s funny. However much it’s serious there’s a lot to laugh at. And I think the artists in Rosebud are doing phenomenal work. And hope is at the centre of this story and forgiveness and empathy and so I hope that it just increases people’s capacity for understanding themselves and the people around them and I hope they have a good time. I think they will.
JAMES
And with Rosebud you do get Chef Mo’s delicious buffet.
KRISTA
Yes, you get a good meal. A feast.
JAMES
Something for the stomach as well as something for the mind and the heart.
KRISTA
Exactly.
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The Green House is a play about memory, empathy, and forgiveness featuring a stellar cast that shows how revisiting the past can alter our view and understanding of the present. The play not only invites audiences to experience Susanne’s journey and transformation but to also reflect on the stories we tell ourselves about the past.
Which brings to mind that each encounter with a production is a personal experience. We never come to the theatre in a completely neutral mind. That’s impossible. We are always at any moment an emotional and physical representation of where life has brought us up to this point in time. A year from now I’ll be a different person. A year ago, I was a different person. How much variation between who I was and who I will be depends on a multitude of factors.
So, our health and emotional and financial well being as well as the epoch in which we live influences how we think and react and interpret what we see and experience. And a big part of me is feeling rather exhausted mentally, physically, and spiritually at the moment.
Graham and James in Rosebud on September 20, 2025 looking forward to some good food and engaging theatre.
So, I’ve come to the theatre in need of nourishment. I need something to engage my mind and lift my spirits. And by that I don’t mean I need comedy. Even though I love comedy. What I need at the moment is engagement. I’m looking for a story that will reveal some truth about this journey we all find ourselves on. And so, with all that in mind I have to say I enjoyed my journey out to Rosebud and my encounter with The Green House and the discussions I had with my son, Graham, after we saw the show.
You can catch The Green House at Rosebud Theatre until Saturday October 25th with matinee performances from Wednesday to Saturday at 1:30 pm and evening performances on Friday and Saturday at 8:00 pm. Tickets can be purchased at www.rosebudtheatre.com or by phone at 1-800-267-7553.
The 1000 Monkeys Project featuring five Calgary playwrights is just one of the many shows you can see during this year’s 19th Annual Calgary Fringe Festival running in Inglewood from Friday, August 1st to Saturday, August 9th.
This year’s featured ten-minute plays include Adrift by Greg Miller, KinDread Spirit by Sydney Wolf, Polly’s Plan by Deb McKenzie, Good n’ Gooders by Logan Sundquist, and The Exit Interview by Mark Ricalde. The show is being presented by the Alberta Playwrights’ Network. I contacted Trevor Rueger the Executive Director of APN to ask him a few questions about this year’s show and APN’s 40th Anniversary celebrations.
JAMES HUTCHISON
Tell me about the five plays we’re going to see this year and what audiences can expect?
TREVOR RUEGER
We have a great assortment of plays this year. It was tough selecting from the 20 submissions we had. We’ve got
Adrift by Greg Miller imagines the story of the two stranded astronauts and their time alone on the International Space Station and their desire to get to a place they can call home.
Polly’s Plan by Deb McKenzie is about a woman trapped in an elevator speaking to a security guard as the perfect life she has planned disintegrates around her.
KinDread Spirit by Sydney Wolf sees a young person looking in the mirror and discovering someone else on the other side. It’s not just the drugs they took talking.
The Exit Interview by Mark Ricalde. An executive undergoes the firing of a problematic employee, but that employee is his father and the founder of the company.
Good n Gooder’s by Logan Sundquist. A wanderer walks up to a drive thru window of a crazy restaurant and truthfully answers the question “What can I get you today?”.
JAMES
One of the fun things about the show is you have a small group of actors who present all the plays. Who are the actors we have in the show this year?
TREVOR
We’ve got a great group of artists reading this year: Roberta Mauer-Phillips, Sepidar Yeganeh Farid, Luigi Riscaldino. And also Trevor Rueger.
JAMES
I’m curious as a dramaturge who has worked with many different writers over the years, what have you observed about how various writers work, where they find inspiration, and what their creative process is like.
TREVOR
I taught a playwriting class this past year to three of the writers being presented. It was interesting seeing how they approached the work. One person got inspiration from the news of the day and just wrote, one had a very clear idea about the subject they wanted to explore and was diligent about planning before writing. While I teach playwriting in a practical sense (giving the building blocks of dramatic writing), I am always amazed at the different ways that writers come to and go through a creative process. I think that the biggest challenge any artist has is discovering that process that works best for them – and that usually only comes through trial and error.
JAMES
I also want to know what’s going on in the zeitgeist. You run this show at the Fringe. APN also awards the Sharon Pollock Award to an outstanding Alberta play every year and you yourself work with lots of different playwrights at various stages of their careers. What kinds of topics and themes are playwrights from Alberta exploring these days and what are these plays saying and exploring about the world we’re living in.
TREVOR
It’s really hard to put a finger on what’s being created currently. We seem to be in a place where writers are exploring the personal, but approaching the writing at an arms length, which is to say, creating a fictional world with fictional characters to talk or experience something they’ve personally dealt with. There is also a current push by younger writers to explore absurdism and/or horror.
JAMES
And finally, APN will be celebrating its 40th Anniversary this year. You and I will be doing a more in-depth interview about APN in September but until then can you give us a little preview of your upcoming celebrations.
TREVOR
We are having two celebrations – one in Calgary on September 13 and one in Edmonton on September 27. We will do some play readings of work that has come through APN, as well as celebrating some of those extraordinary writer’s who have devoted themselves to Alberta voices and APN. There will be music, dancing, and cake. We’ll be officially launching and sending out info in the next couple of weeks.
For complete details about all the shows in this year’s festival and to purchase tickets for in-person shows or on-demand shows visit the Calgary Fringe Festival Website or drop by the Fringe Festival Box Office at Festival Hall and pick up a program. Regular tickets are just $20 bucks with several shows offering pay-what-you-want performances.
The Alberta Playwrights’ Network is a terrific organization helping Alberta playwrights go from the page to the stage. If you’d like to find out more about APN and what they offer in terms of programming and community check out the Alberta Playwrights’ Network website.
The Paris Review is a quarterly literary magazine established in 1953 by Harold L. Humes, Peter Matthiessen, and George Plimpton. It’s renowned for its in-depth interviews with prominent writers, known as “The Art of Fiction,” series, as well as publishing original fiction, poetry, and essays. Here is a small sample from interviews I’ve read that may offer some insight and inspiration to those of us engaged in the long tradition of telling stories.
George Saunders, The Art of Fiction No. 245 – Issue 231, Winter 2019
“But I think it’s mysterious, what we end up writing about. I don’t have any big intellectual agenda regarding the Civil War. I just kind of switch on when I write about it. And my feeling is, if something fascinates you, you just should go there—you have to. I don’t think you have to necessarily understand why. We’re looking for language-rich zones, places that get us revved up, places that feel bountiful. You can dress the process up afterward, theoretically and explanatorily, but really we’re looking for a place of excitement and potential, a place that feels language-rich—it takes a lot of words to write a book and a lot of words are going to have to be taken out. So you need a deep reservoir of generative interest. One of the indicators that you’ve chosen a good topic is that you have strong opinions about everything that’s going on in the prose—the language, the form, all of it.”
August Wilson, The Art of Theatre No. 14 – Issue 153, Winter 1999
“I think it was the ability of the theater to communicate ideas and extol virtues that drew me to it. And also I was, and remain, fascinated by the idea of an audience as a community of people who gather willingly to bear witness. A novelist writes a novel and people read it. But reading is a solitary act. While it may elicit a varied and personal response, the communal nature of the audience is like having five hundred people read your novel and respond to it at the same time. I find that thrilling.”
Susan Sontag, The Art of Fiction No. 143 – Issue 137, Winter 1995
“Oddly enough, the plot is what seems to come all of a piece—like a gift. It’s very mysterious. Something I hear or see or read conjures up a whole story in all its concreteness—scenes, characters, landscapes, catastrophes. With Death Kit, it was hearing someone utter the childhood nickname of a mutual friend named Richard—just the hearing of the name Diddy. With The Volcano Lover, it was browsing in a print shop near the British Museum and coming across some images of volcanic landscapes that turned out to be from Sir William Hamilton’s Phlegraei Campi. For the new novel, it was reading something in Kafka’s diaries, a favorite book, so I must have already read this paragraph, which may be an account of a dream, more than once. Reading it this time the story of a whole novel, like a movie I’d seen, leaped into my head.”
John Irving, The Art of Fiction No. 93 – Issue 100, Summer 1986
“I write only favorable reviews. A writer of fiction whose own fiction comes first is just too subjective a reader to allow himself to write a negative review. And there are already plenty of professional reviewers eager to be negative. If I get a book to review and I don’t like it, I return it; I only review the book if I love it. Hence I’ve written very few reviews, and those are really just songs of praise or rather long, retrospective reviews of all the writer’s works: of John Cheever, Kurt Vonnegut, and Günter Grass, for example. And then there is the occasional “younger” writer whom I introduce to readers, such as Jayne Anne Phillips and Craig Nova. Another thing about not writing negative reviews: grown-ups shouldn’t finish books they’re not enjoying. When you’re no longer a child, and you no longer live at home, you don’t have to finish everything on your plate. One reward of leaving school is that you don’t have to finish books you don’t like. You know, if I were a critic, I’d be angry and vicious, too; it makes poor critics angry and vicious—to have to finish all those books they’re not enjoying. What a silly job criticism is! What unnatural work it is! It is certainly not work for a grown-up.”
Paul Auster, The Art of Fiction No. 178 – Issue 167, Fall 2003
“I suppose I think of the notebook as a house for words, as a secret place for thought and self-examination. I’m not just interested in the results of writing, but in the process, the act of putting words on a page. Don’t ask me why. It might have something to do with an early confusion on my part, an ignorance about the nature of fiction. As a young person, I would always ask myself, Where are the words coming from? Who’s saying this? The third-person narrative voice in the traditional novel is a strange device. We’re used to it now, we accept it, we don’t question it anymore. But when you stop and think about it, there’s an eerie, disembodied quality to that voice. It seems to come from nowhere and I found that disturbing. I was always drawn to books that doubled back on themselves, that brought you into the world of the book, even as the book was taking you into the world. The manuscript as hero, so to speak. Wuthering Heights is that kind of novel. The Scarlet Letter is another. The frames are fictitious, of course, but they give a groundedness and credibility to the stories that other novels didn’t have for me. They posit the work as an illusion—which more traditional forms of narrative don’t—and once you accept the “unreality” of the enterprise, it paradoxically enhances the truth of the story. The words aren’t written in stone by an invisible author-god. They represent the efforts of a flesh-and-blood human being and this is very compelling. The reader becomes a participant in the unfolding of the story—not just a detached observer.”
Stephen King, The Art of Fiction No. 189 – Issue 178, Fall 2006
“I’d say that what I do is like a crack in the mirror. If you go back over the books from Carrie on up, what you see is an observation of ordinary middle-class American life as it’s lived at the time that particular book was written. In every life you get to a point where you have to deal with something that’s inexplicable to you, whether it’s the doctor saying you have cancer or a prank phone call. So whether you talk about ghosts or vampires or Nazi war criminals living down the block, we’re still talking about the same thing, which is an intrusion of the extraordinary into ordinary life and how we deal with it. What that shows about our character and our interactions with others and the society we live in interests me a lot more than monsters and vampires and ghouls and ghosts.”
Susan-Lori Parks, The Art of Theater No. 18 – Issue 235, Winter 2020
“Anything, anything can change a writer, if one is open to it. The artists I admire most go through their changes. Think about Aretha Franklin. Started out singing gospel in church, went through a change. She grew. She got into secular music, blues and jazz standards, and then pop songs that became clas- sics. Started writing her own material. At first, people had an issue with her secular side, but she had such confidence in her voice and she was able to follow it.
One could say that as a writer, my voice has changed. It’s grown. And the idea that we have to be who we were when we started is bullshit. It’s poppycock. Think of Bob Dylan at Newport. The famous folk singer has an electric guitar and plugs in—and he gets booed by the audience. The artists I admire go through their changes instead of clinging to what they might have started out doing. Like, we are no longer babies, right? We grow. As a human it’s natural, but as an artist, you are known by your “brand,” and it takes a lot of moxie to step out of your comfort zone again and again and again.”
Wallace Shawn, The Art of Theatre No. 17 – Issue 201, Summer 2012
“I love the idea that drama is a form of literature, and I love the fact that plays are published and can be read. But this can create a problem or a conflict. For example, it might be perfectly appropriate for a character in a play to say something like, “Edwin, I’ve always believed that there are tuna-salad men, and there are hamburger men, and I’ve always been a bit of a tuna-salad man myself, so I think I’ll sit this one out.” But it might actually be more effective and better for the actor onstage to say, “No! I won’t do that!” Given the right actor, those words might ring out, they might fly across the stage and devastate everyone. The sound of those words, the rhythm of them, might perfectly and beautifully convey the character’s hopes, needs, and beliefs. To the spectator sitting in the audience, “No! I won’t do that!” might be the most exciting moment in the whole play, even though for the reader sitting at home it might seem like a very flat and uninteresting line.”
Ray Bradbury, The Art of Fiction No. 203 – Issue 192, Spring 2010
“Take Fahrenheit 451. You’re dealing with book burning, a very serious subject. You’ve got to be careful you don’t start lecturing people. So you put your story a few years into the future and you invent a fireman who has been burning books instead of putting out fires—which is a grand idea in itself—and you start him on the adventure of discovering that maybe books shouldn’t be burned. He reads his first book. He falls in love. And then you send him out into the world to change his life. It’s a great suspense story, and locked into it is this great truth you want to tell, without pontificating.
I often use the metaphor of Perseus and the head of Medusa when I speak of science fiction. Instead of looking into the face of truth, you look over your shoulder into the bronze surface of a reflecting shield. Then you reach back with your sword and cut off the head of Medusa. Science fiction pretends to look into the future but it’s really looking at a reflection of what is already in front of us. So you have a ricochet vision, a ricochet that enables you to have fun with it, instead of being self-conscious and superintellectual.”
Iris Murdoch, The Art of Fiction No. 117 – Issue 115, Summer 1990
“You could name almost anybody who has written a great or good novel and see that their lives are imperfect. You can be unselfish and truthful in your art, and a monster at home. To write a good book you have to have certain qualities. Great art is connected with courage and truthfulness. There is a conception of truth, a lack of illusion, an ability to overcome selfish obsessions, which goes with good art, and the artist has got to have that particular sort of moral stamina. Good art, whatever its style, has qualities of hardness, firmness, realism, clarity, detachment, justice, truth. It is the work of a free, unfettered, uncorrupted imagination. Whereas bad art is the soft, messy self-indulgent work of an enslaved fantasy. Pornography is at one end of that scale, great art at the other end.”
Joan Didion, The Art of Nonfiction No. 1 – Issue 176, Spring 2006
“Writing fiction is for me a fraught business, an occasion of daily dread for at least the first half of the novel, and sometimes all the way through. The work process is totally different from writing nonfiction. You have to sit down every day and make it up. You have no notes—or sometimes you do, I made extensive notes for A Book of Common Prayer—but the notes give you only the background, not the novel itself. In nonfiction the notes give you the piece. Writing nonfiction is more like sculpture, a matter of shaping the research into the finished thing. Novels are like paintings, specifically watercolors. Every stroke you put down you have to go with. Of course you can rewrite, but the original strokes are still there in the texture of the thing.”
James Baldwin, The Art of Fiction No. 78 – Issue 91, Spring 1984
“I remember standing on a street corner with the black painter Beauford Delaney down in the Village, waiting for the light to change, and he pointed down and said, “Look.” I looked and all I saw was water. And he said, “Look again,” which I did, and I saw oil on the water and the city reflected in the puddle. It was a great revelation to me. I can’t explain it. He taught me how to see, and how to trust what I saw. Painters have often taught writers how to see. And once you’ve had that experience, you see differently.”
***
“I write only when inspiration strikes. Fortunately it strikes every morning at nine o’clock sharp.”
The Writer Speaks is a selection of interviews I’ve come across over the years on YouTube with a variety of writers including Charlie Kaufman, Christopher Durang, and Emma Thompson. There are many more of course but these are ones I’ve enjoyed and I think any writer interested in learning a bit about the creative process will enjoy these conversations as well.
For myself when I began a more serious attempt at putting something down on paper I read On Writing by Stephen King and I found there were a couple of lessons from King that worked well for me. Probably the most important one is not to share the work until you’ve finished the first draft.
In fact, once you’ve finished the first draft you put it in a drawer and leave it. Let some time pass. Then when you come back to it a month later you have fresh eyes and can read the story with a more analytical mind.
The reason you don’t share the story during the writing process is because you don’t want the story to be influenced by the opinions and thoughts of others. This works well for me but I know there are other writers who like to have input and getting feedback as they write is part of their process. I’m not saying you don’t need to share the work and get feedback I’m just saying for myself early feedback usually disrupts my writing process rather than helps it.
The key of course is to find out what works for you. There is no wrong or right. You’re not Stephen King or Margaret Atwood and what works for them may not work for you.
Anyway, I wish you well on your writing journey and I hope you find the interviews below as informative and entertaining as I have.
Selma Hortense Burke with her portrait bust of Booker T. Washington, 1930s. Smithsonian Archive of American Art. Photography by Pinchos Horn.
Selma Burke was an African American sculptor who played a major role in the Harlem Renaissance movement of the 1920s and 30s which was an intellectual and cultural revival of African American music, dance, art, fashion, literature, theatre, politics, and scholarship.
Burke used her talent to immortalize such historic figures as author and African-American civil rights leader Booker T. Washington, philanthropist, humanitarian and civil rights activist Dr. Mary McLeod Bethune, composer, songwriter, conductor and Jazz musician Duke Ellington, and Civil Rights leader Martin Luther King, Jr. who advanced civil rights for people of colour in the United States through the use of nonviolent resistance and nonviolent civil disobedience.
Among her more famous works is a bas-relief bronze plaque honouring President Franklin D. Roosevelt and the Four Freedoms which he outlined in his State of the Union speech to Congress in 1941 as Freedom of speech; Freedom of worship; Freedom from want; and Freedom from fear. Burke’s portrait of FDR is recognized by many as the inspiration behind the design of Roosevelt’s portrait on the American dime, which was something she never received credit for in her lifetime.
Caroline and Maria have written a rich and thought-provoking play about the life of Selma Burke that also explores the meaning of art, the Civil Rights Movement, racism, and censorship. I asked Maria and Caroline what sort of experience they hope audiences are going to have when they come to see the play.
CAROLINE RUSSELL-KING
Our goal is to entertain. Our play is not a lecture on art or a biography, it’s a flight of fancy. Selma lived nearly a century – these are ninety minutes of fun.
MARIA CROOKS
An entertaining, stimulating and very humorous one. We hope the audience will find the use of actors playing statues and other objects to be innovative and clever. We also hope that they enjoy getting to know this feisty, intelligent, gifted artist who deserves to be recognized and remembered as a one-of-a-kind artist and human being.
JAMES HUTCHISON
What was your process like working on the play together and what do you think are the key elements that make for a successful writing partnership?
CAROLINE
I think complementary strengths are important. I’m obviously not from Jamaica like Claude McKay is in the play and Maria is. Maria brings her knowledge of French as I am sadly unilingual. Maria is also a great editor. When I am creating plays in my head form and from can often look the same on the page.
MARIA
It was indeed a very stimulating, interesting process for both of us. We brainstormed together, wrote scenes individually then compared the writing and chose sections that best conveyed what we wished to express. We argued, we laughed, we fought to convince the other person of the merit of our ideas. For me, the most important elements that made for our successful partnership were the respect and trust that I have for Caroline’s extensive knowledge and experience as a playwright. She has written numerous award-winning plays, she is also a dramaturg, a critic, and a playwriting instructor. In fact, she was my playwriting instructor and has done the dramaturgy on all my plays.
JAMES
There’s a note in the script before the play begins where you say, “Selma Burke lived from 1900 to 1995 which is approximately 49,932,000 minutes – here imagined are 90 of them.” I loved that because it’s a humorous observation that illustrates the challenge of trying to tell a life story in the span of a play. So, how do you do that? How do you go about distilling the essence of a person’s life into an evening of theatre?
Selma Hortense Burke with her relief plaque of President Franklin Delano Roosevelt. From the Archives of American Art Federal Art Project, Photographic Division Collection.
MARIA
We wanted to demonstrate some very salient points about Selma: how gifted an artist she was, her determination to succeed as a sculptor despite having been born Black, poor, and female in the southern US. The obstacles she faced, and the triumphs and accolades that she garnered, the people she knew, including a veritable Who’s Who of the Harlem Renaissance, presidents, and artist she studied with in Europe, the remarkable events that she witnessed, participated in and chronicled of the tempestuous era that was the 20th century. We wanted to do so dramatically but also with humour.
CAROLINE
It’s all about peaks and valleys. I always tell my playwriting students you want to see characters on their best days and their worst days not a Wednesday.
JAMES
One aspect of the play that works really well that you mentioned is that you have actors on stage being the art – the sculptures – that Selma creates. It’s an effective and theatrical way to bring the art alive and to tell Selma’s story. Tell me about how you came up with that idea and what it adds to the play.
CAROLINE
Having her work come to life is very important. In plays there are three types of conflict – person vs person, person vs environment, and person vs self. In Shakespeare’s time characters had soliloquies to express internal conflict. Today people who speak out loud to themselves are either on the phone with earbuds or mentally unwell. So, her relationship with her art is a mechanism to show internal conflict. Secondly, we so often see plays on the stage that could be screenplays or done in other media like TV – I wanted the play to be theatrical. What theatre does really well – is theatre.
MARIA
Caroline had the brilliant idea to have actors portray the artwork and other inanimate objects. This idea is not only dramatic, but as the audience will see, hilarious at times.
Christopher Clare, Norma Lewis, and Heather Pattengale in the Theatre Calgary – ATP Production of Selma Burke. Photo: Trudie Lee.
JAMES
As you got to know Selma from doing your research and writing your play what sort of person was she do you think and what do you think her hopes would be in regards to her legacy and the art she created during her lifetime?
MARIA
She wanted, I believe, to be remembered as an African American artist who created important works and who wanted to uplift her people though her art.
CAROLINE
I think she had a strong vision for her work and the confidence to pull it off – her art speaks for itself. The language of her art is deep and rich – I’m totally in love with her.
JAMES
A couple of the topics touched on in the play are artistic freedom and censorship. Artistic freedom is defined by the UN as “the freedom to imagine, create and distribute diverse cultural expressions free of government censorship, political interference or the pressures of non-state actors.” In Canada the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms protects artistic expression. And yet in many countries artists are not free to express opinions that differ from those in power and these days there’s the new phenomena of the online mob attacking artists and their work if it doesn’t agree with their particular point of view. The idea isn’t to engage in an exchange and to challenge the art. The idea seems to be to stop the artist and their work. What are your own thoughts about artistic freedom and the kinds of censorship we’re seeing in the world today and what does that mean for the world in which we live? Why is art and artistic freedom important?
CAROLINE
The play is topical because firstly the struggle to create art is always an issue in hard economic times. More importantly the play is about not only those who get to create art but who has the right to destroy it. In Victoria BC two plays have been shut down, one before opening and one mid run. This is outrageous. It used to be the right that censored artist work now it is the left.
MARIA
We both find this trend alarming and offensive. It stymes creativity and will have artists second-guessing their ideas and their work. Unfortunately, today everyone with a computer, cell phone or tablet can disseminate their ideas to a wide audience no matter how unpleasant they may be and find receptive audiences who go along just to be provoking. Unfortunately, both of us have noticed that this kind of behaviour is not limited to right-leaning people or groups, the left, it seems, wants in on it too.
Christopher Hunt and Norma Lewis in the Theatre Calgary – ATP Production of Selma Burke. Photo: Trudie Lee.
JAMES
A script is words on a page. It takes actors to bring the story to life. A director to guide it. A set designer and costume designer and sound designer to build the world of the play. Tell me a little bit about the cast and crew that’s been assembled to tell the story of Selma Burke and what they bring to the story.
MARIA
There are four actors Norma Lewis, Christopher Clare, Heather Pattengale and Christopher Hunt. All very talented Calgarians. Between them they play over 55 characters, art pieces, inanimate objects and even a plaster-of-Paris leg. The director is Delicia Turner Sonnenberg who hails from California and the stage manager is Meredith Johnson. Javier Vilalta is the movement and choreography coordinator. There are of course many other brilliant, artistic crew members who are creating magic in the background to allow this play to shine.
CAROLINE
We are so lucky to have Delicia as our director. Besides a phenomenal cast the designers are great especially Hanne Loosen who has sculped our set and Adejoké Taiwo who sculpted our costumes.
Heather Pattengale, Christopher Hunt, and Norma Lewis in the Theatre Calgary – ATP Production of Selma Burke. Photo: Trudie Lee.
JAMES
Every artist needs their champions. Someone who believes in and loves their work. So, I’m curious to know who has supported you in the making of your art?
MARIA
We have been supported by every artist at Theatre Calgary and especially the Artistic Director of Theatre Calgary Stafford Arima who has taken an artistic risk on this new piece of art.
CAROLINE
No artist is an island. In addition to what Maria said, I think it’s important to recognize the support that we get from friends and family. A play is such an abstract concept before all of the thousands of hours it takes to realize it on the stage. In the early stages it’s very fragile. Every play starts with the thought “Maybe I could write about that….” Every human has the impetus to make art whether it’s a painting, a garden, or a rebuilt motorcycle… it’s the leap into follow-through that’s difficult. I am grateful that my friends and family have supported me for decades through all of the downs, more downs and the occasional up!
JAMES
Having a production on the professional stage is certainly one of those ups and definitely something to celebrate. Who should come to see the play? Is it a play for everyone?
CAROLINE
No, art cannot possibly be for everyone, that’s part of what makes it valuable. Art which is created as mass production is not art. Everyone has their own set of unique tastes in art. This play is for adults who are curious and love to be entertained in the theatre, in the dark with other aficionados. It’s for people who like me get a thrill out of live theatre and love visual art as well.
MARIA
This play is for audiences who enjoy innovative, fascinating theatre with a big dollop of humour mixed in with theatricality.
Lauren Brotman in the Vertigo Theatre Production of The Girl on the Train. Photo Tim Nguyen.
Rachel Watson wakes up one morning from a drunken blackout with a gash across her forehead, her hands covered in blood, and no memory of the night before. Adding to the mystery is the unexplained disappearance of Megan Hipwell a woman whose life Rachel has been obsessing over and observing as she travels by train to and from work every day.
Not content to let the police and Detective Inspector Gaskill handle things Rachel begins her own investigation into the mystery while she desperately tries to remember that night and figure out what happened. Add to the mix Megan’s husband Scott Hipwell and Megan’s therapist Kamal Abdic and then throw in Rachel’s own ex husband Tom Watson and his new wife Anna Watson and there are plenty of secrets to be revealed and several suspects to uncover in this exciting and tension-filled thriller.
Jack Grinhaus Artistic Director Vertigo Theatre Photo by Dahlia Katz
I sat down with Jack Grinhaus the Artistic Director of Vertigo Theatre and the director of The Girl on the Train to talk with him about the show, the importance of trust in the rehearsal hall, and what Vertigo Theatre has planned for their 2024/25 Theatre Season.
JAMES HUTCHISON
So, Jack, Vertigo Theatre is producing The Girl on the Train adapted for the stage by Rachel Wagstaff and Duncan Abel based on the best-selling novel by Paula Hawkins and the Dreamworks film which came out in 2016. How did this particular play land a spot in your season?
JACK GRINHAUS
It was a great book that I read and adored a number of years back and the play is written very much in the thriller mode – which I really enjoyed. I love the idea of a strong female lead. I love that there’s a truth about women in the world and how they are perceived. I thought the issues around alcoholism and memory were really intriguing subject matter to deal with. And the play is also highly entertaining and challenging because you’re trying to tell this story that’s flipping through different times and spaces. So, to me, it felt like a story audiences would get behind but it’s also the kind of work I’m interested in which is very much that fast-paced thriller that I think Vertigo’s been moving towards.
JAMES
You talked about the novel and the challenge always is how do you tell the story in a different medium. How does the play convey the story but still manage to capture the essence of the novel?
JACK
The novel takes the view of all three women. So, you have chapters from Anna, Megan, and Rachel and each chapter kind of overlaps. So, you’re seeing all three women through their own interpretation of their experiences whereas the play focuses on Rachel’s story and Megan and Anna’s stories are told through the eyes and the memory of the other people telling their version of events.
So, when Megan is confessing to having an affair to her husband Scott, she’s cruel and vicious and mean about it because of how he remembers it. He remembers it in that way and in this way, Megan becomes more of an enigma. There isn’t one version of Megan. We see four to five different versions of Megan. We see her how her therapist Kamal sees her. How Scott sees her. How Tom sees her. And how Rachel sees her as sort of this fantasy character.
Adaptations are really about finding a way to distill the book’s ethos into the play and finding a way so that the important tenants of the book and the story and characters are retained in a way that makes sure the book’s main thrust is still present and existing but in a format that is contracted and shrunk.
JAMES
The film boasts an outstanding cast including one of my favourite actors Emily Blunt who was up for an Oscar this year for her role in Oppenheimer. Your own cast that you’ve assembled for this production is outstanding with many Vertigo favourites bringing the story to life. You’ve got Lauren Brotman playing Rachel Watson, Filsan Dualeh playing Megan Hipwell, Tyrell Crews as Tom Watson, Stafford Perry as Scott Hipwell, Jamie Konchak as Detective Inspector Gaskill, Mike Tan as Kamal Abdic, and Anna Cummer as Anna Watson. Tell me a little bit about this cast and what qualities each actor brings to their roles.
JACK
Lauren who plays Rachel is my wife and we’ve worked together for a number of years and Lauren has an extraordinary facilitation with emotion. She’s able to capture emotion in multiple ways. She can go from screaming to laughing to crying in the span of a second or two. And she’s able to make the character of Rachel much more affable because the Rachel character if not done well can come across as this irritating self-absorbed narcissist who’s getting involved in something she shouldn’t get into. But because Lauren is capable of giving us a much more authentic and nuanced experience, she brings complexity and truth to Rachel.
When it comes to someone like Ty and Stafford, they’re both well-known in the community and they’re both strong male counterparts to Rachel. And in this story, they have the opportunity to support Rachel but they also both provide a bit of danger. Ty has played the bad guy a lot and he’s the sweetest guy so he can play a sweet guy but then flip that switch.
And Stafford is someone who feels almost like a little boy in a man’s body. And Scott is like that. He’s just this guy who gets thrown into this situation and he says, “You know five minutes ago I was just a guy with a mortgage and a wife and suddenly now I’m a circus attraction.” And he’s not good at that.
Anna Cummer who plays Anna in the play is so wonderfully idiosyncratic in the way that she prepares as a human and as an actor and as an artist. She’s a seasoned actor – a strong actor – who can give us that neurosis, jealousy, and fear that the Anna character has.
Jamie and Mike are just excellent rocks. You know whenever you cast a company of actors you need a couple of rocks in the company who hold down the fort because we have Rachel and Anna and Scott all emotionally up here so the key to an ensemble is to have two people that are emotionally down here.
And then Filsan brings this beautiful youth and enigma. She’s the youngest person in the company. The one with the newer experience in theatre comparative to the other actors who have maybe ten or fifteen years on her. So that innocence is kind of Meghan in a way, right?
So, they each have qualities that are really within the characterization and a lot of that came up in the audition process and right away we went, “Ah, you embody this character in this way as a person naturally.” And then as a group I needed really strong actors because of the nuanced performances necessary for it to be a believable piece of theatre.
JAMES
You mentioned that your wife Lauren is in the show and that you’ve worked with your wife over the years and I’m curious to know how do you enjoy that professional relationship and how do you maintain a successful personal relationship?
JACK
I don’t know how it is for other people, but we’ve just always been very similar on how the art is done. We can battle in the rehearsal hall, and I know that she’s going to try and do the best out of what she can get from the character, and she knows that I’m only going to try and get the best out of her. But at the end of the workday, we go home and leave it alone. And if someone starts talking about the work at home the other will say let’s wait for the rehearsal. And because I think we see art in the same way the end game is always the same and, in that way, it means we’ll never actually fight because we know we’re both trying to reach the same goal.
Filsan Dualeh and Stafford Perry in the Vertigo Theatre Production of The Girl on the Train. Photo Tim Nguyen.
JAMES
From what you’re saying I’m taking that trust is a huge part of your relationship with your wife but let’s expand that out to talk about how important is trust in the rehearsal room and putting on a production.
JACK
It’s critical. I always say as a director I need to win the room in the first five minutes of the first rehearsal. Because if I don’t win the trust of that team – if they don’t believe that I can lead the ship – then I’m going to lose them and once you lose the room it’s very hard to get it back.
And so, I like to come in very well prepared and also come in with a great sensitivity to the understanding of the actor process and let them know that I’m strong and I’m here to support their journey. I’m happy to have discussions about things and if I’m curt or I cut you off it’s only because part of my job is about time management, and I have to keep things moving.
So, I’m very clear upfront about the rules of the game. People know I’m the leader of the team, but it doesn’t mean that your voice is not needed wanted or justified and if there’s time to have conversations we will. So, I’m really clear on my vision and the idea I have for the show so that they can buy in. And the key to building trust in that room is about supporting each other and giving them a place where they feel they can work safely.
JAMES
So, let’s say I have a friend this weekend who says I don’t know what to do and I say there’s Vertigo Theatre’s production The Girl on the Train. What should I tell them? Why should they go see it? What’s the hook?
JACK
I think it’s a gripping, exhilarating, crime thriller experience and we all love that storyline. And because you’re following this journey through the eyes of the unreliable narrator there are red herrings and that’s a bit of a puzzle and it’s also highly theatrical in its presentation. The writing and the acting are naturalistic, but the set and the projections are much more expressionistic and metaphoric, so I think it feels very epic in scope. So, if you want a really great experience, you can come out and have a drink and have a conversation with some of your friends and see something that is not only theatrical it’s cinematic in style and it’s a great thriller with great acting.
Lauren Brotman and Jamie Konchak in the Vertigo Theatre Production of The Girl on the Train. Photo Tim Nguyen.
JAMES
Since you mentioned cinematic a couple of weeks ago the Oscars came out and I’ve seen a few awesome films that were nominated this year like American Fiction which just blew me away and The Holdovers which I loved. And on the weekend, I saw Past Lives and that devastated me. Which totally surprised me. But for me out of the films I’ve seen so far, I think the one I like best is The Holdovers. Did you have a favourite out of the films that you’ve seen and were nominated this year?
JACK
I loved Oppenheimer. I really did. I found myself really drawn to it. I mean I love Christopher Nolan the director and I love the work that he does. The performances weren’t necessarily very deep emotional experiences but I’m a big history buff and I love the storytelling and the way it was shot and even though it was a longer film it didn’t feel like it. It didn’t drag at any point for me. I was in it the whole time. I just wish I’d seen it in the movie theatre and not at home because it feels so epic and I would have loved to have been in the cinema for that one.
JAMES
I saw an interview with Jeffrey Wright who was in American Fiction, and he said when he’s making the work he doesn’t think about awards but afterwards awards bring recognition to the work and if they’re going to hand out awards anyway why not hand them out to him. And that made me laugh. So, I’m curious about your thoughts. We have the Betty’s coming up which are our local theatre awards. What are your thoughts about placing artists in competition with each other and that whole idea of awarding work?
JACK
There are many layers to that question. With film and TV when you win an award it can actually bolster awareness about the film and the work helping it to grow but usually a play is completed by the time it gets an award so I’ve always felt that awards are really valuable for young artists who are coming up and it can give them some stature. It’s kind of like good reviews. Those things can bolster grant writing potential and maybe even opportunities for work and so I’ve always thought awards are really great for young people.
I’m also curious about the idea that does a work of art only become great if it’s publicly lauded or can a work of art still be great even without that? You think of some of the greatest artists in history people hated for years and years and years and then suddenly twenty, thirty, fifty, a hundred years later their works are being lauded.
I think it’s valuable in it’s a way for communities to get together and to at least acknowledge each other and that’s great but we could also just have a big party at the end of the year – a big theatre party and have a nice dinner together and just celebrate each other in a way without necessarily having to say you’re the best of the best you know.
When Connie Chung was interviewing Marlon Brando she said, “You know you’re considered the greatest actor of all time.” And Brando said, “Why do we always have to deal with absolutes? Why does it always have to be somebody is the best? Somebody is the worst. Can’t you just attune yourself to a thing and be one of the people who does that.”
JAMES
So, last year you gave me a little sneak peak about next season, and I was wondering what do you have planned for the 2024/25 theatre season at Vertigo?
JACK
Well, it’s about turning the page and I always build seasons that are feeling the zeitgeist of the day in a way and trying to understand where we are. And I think even though people would argue the pandemic isn’t over we are certainly past the most fearful stage of it where we just didn’t know anything, and we were all just guessing. And I think we’re in a place now where we have a better understanding that helps us reflect on ourselves and look at that time and think about who we are today.
So, for me – turning the page – are stories about people who are doing exactly that. They’re reflecting on the past and figuring out what are we going to do now in the future. And so, all of the plays live in that ethos a bit. And we also want to provide opportunities for audiences to have a great time next year. It’s still a hard time in the real world so why not enjoy the entertainment that we can provide. And we’ve got four premieres this coming year. So, lots of new plays.
We start the season with The Woman in Black which is a ghost story and just closed in the UK after nearly thirty-five years and over 13,000 performances since 1989. And we were the first phone call to say can we have it because they kept it on moratorium for a number of years – not allowing anyone to produce it. And it’s about Arthur Kipps looking back on his past to try and understand what happened to his family. So, starting off with something like that around Halloween is lots of fun.
Then there’s the Canadian premiere of Murder on the Links which is a new version of a Christie Poirot – which everybody loves with six actors playing thirty roles. That’s exciting. It’s nostalgic with the way we love those chestnuts that time of year. It’s the holiday season. People want nostalgia. They want to look back a little bit and see those things and it’s a great story right.
We have the Canadian premiere of Deadly Murder. Deadly Murder is a dark deep psychological thriller. Very uncomfortable. Very cat and mouse. It’s that thing where you lock two or three people in a room and you see what happens. And it’s the old Hitchcock thing. It’s not scary to find out there’s a bomb in the room. It’s scary to find out there’s a bomb in the room that’s going off in five minutes and now what?
Then we have the world premiere of a new play called A Killing at La Cucina which is about a food critic who dies at a restaurant called Fate where one in a thousand people are fed poison and they go there because of that. And we’re introducing this new super detective who might very well be the next Poirot named Lucia Dante who investigates this fast-paced and intense mystery along with her AI colleague Isabella.
And we close the season with the Canadian premiere of The DaVinci Code which you know is nearing a hundred million copies in sale. It’s been about twenty-odd years since the book came out and I don’t think there’s a person who hasn’t at least heard of it. And I think that audiences are looking for things that they can recognize, and I think DaVinci Code is definitely one that is an exciting piece that is adapted by the same people who did The Girl on a Train, so it’s got that fast pace and that excitement in a treasure hunt adventure that goes all across Europe.
How are we going to do that?
We’re not going to have Europe all over the stage but that’s the beauty of theatre we’re going to use the set design and maybe the projections and the sound and the way that the lighting is set to create those environments where the audience goes – Yes you are in a Piazza in Milan. I see it. I see it all. Right. You’re in the Louvre. I totally take it we’re in Paris. So, I think those challenges – you know a big ten-person or eleven-person cast and a big show to crown the season – are the kinds of things Vertigo is excited about moving into.
On September 16th, 2023, friends, family, and members of the Alberta arts community gathered in Medicine Hat to celebrate this year’s recipients of The Lieutenant Governor of Alberta Distinguished Artist Awards. This year’s recipients include playwright and theatre artist Mieko Ouchi, film and theatre performer Michelle Thrush, and film animators Wendy Tilby & Amanda Forbis.
Chair of the Lieutenant Governor of Alberta Arts Awards Arlene Strom said, “Albertans can be proud of the contributions of these Distinguished Artists who have pushed the boundaries of art to reflect indigenous identity and expression, present a more inclusive and diverse view of Alberta’s history, and highlight the art of film animation in Alberta and worldwide. Each has contributed immeasurably to the development of the province’s artists, arts communities and expanding art disciplines.”
L to R: Wendy Tilby, Amanda Forbis, Her Honour Salma Lakhani, Mieko Ouchi, Michelle Thrush, Photo Credit Randy Feere
Her Honour, the Honourable Salma Lakhani, Lieutenant Governor of Alberta said, “The women receiving the Distinguished Artist Award this year have offered important contributions to the arts in Canada. We have all been granted the opportunity, through their work, to learn and grow in our understanding of the human condition. Artists such as these are essential to the lifeblood of our communities, and we are truly fortunate to have them as cultural leaders in their respective disciplines, in our province and our country as a whole.”
I contacted Michelle Thrush as well as Wendy Tilby and Amanda Forbis to talk with them about their work and creative process. You can read those interviews by following the links above. I also spoke with Mieko Ouchi who is a theatre and film director, screenwriter, dramaturg, playwright and a passionate champion for new play development. She is also a fierce advocate for accessibility, inclusivity, diversity and equity across all ranges of artistic output. In our conversation we talked about her approach to storytelling, how she works as a dramaturge to help other artists bring their work to the stage, and what it means to be recognized for her work by receiving The Lieutenant Governor of Alberta Arts Award.
JAMES HUTCHISON
You have a big body of work now and I wonder when you look back at that has your approach to telling stories grown and changed over the years?
MIEKO OUCHI
I think as an artist you do grow and change as you write more, and you create more, but I also feel like there’s a heart that always remains the same. And maybe this was best illustrated quite a few years ago when Red Deer College commissioned me to write a play for a group of students. I pitched a couple of new ideas and then I said, “There’s this play that I started writing in grade eleven about the DaDa Art movement and I did some workshops with some professional theatres, but it was never finished, and I’d love to go back and finish that play as an adult.” And that was the project they chose.
And I went back and read this draft of the play that I’d written when I was seventeen and the wild thing is there were lots of things obviously, I had to change and fix but there was a way of writing – of turning a phrase – an approach to text – that remains to this day – and I recognized my voice in that script.
And right now the thing I feel like I’m growing in most is learning to build empathy for all my characters, and I think my goal is continually to make them more than 2D characters and to make them very complex people that actors will have to really dig into and figure out and audiences will too. Because to me those are the most interesting characters for myself as an audience member.
The Citadel Theatre’s production of The Silver Arrow (2018) written by Mieko Ouchi and featuring Natasha Mumba, April Banigan and Lara Arabian. Photo by David Cooper
JAMES
I think those types of characters are the most relatable because they are the most human because we are so complex and grey. And how often have we done something and then said to ourselves, “That’s so unlike me. Why did I do that?”
MIEKO
That’s right. We recognize that people don’t fit neatly into boxes – that they do things impulsively. They do things against their better judgment or in spite of themselves all the time. And I think theatre is such a beautiful place to explore those impulses.
JAMES
As a playwright you bring new works to life, but you also work as a dramaturge and director assisting other artists to bring their work to the stage. What are some of the important elements you feel are needed to help workshop and develop a new play?
MIEKO
I really see my job in those roles as being like a doula or a midwife. So, you’re in the room. You’re highly connected to the event – to the people – but you’re also a little bit separate and you’re there to help, encourage, and support the person who is giving birth to the new play.
So, I feel like I’m there as an encourager. I’m there as someone with a lot of experience to say, “Here are some things I’ve noticed in the past when we’ve made these kinds of theatrical decisions.” You know someone who knows a little bit more about technical theatre and how theatre is put together and can help playwrights who might not have a background in that. I’m really kind of a sounding board and another set of eyes to say, “I really noticed this. Did you notice that?” Or “This really landed on me this way today.” Just some information for the playwright to take in.
Playwright/performer Mieko Ouchi in a reading of Hiro Kanagawa’s ‘Forgiveness’ at the 2019 Banff Playwrights Lab. Photo by Jessica Wittman.
I always think it’s not up to me to fix the play. I hate the word fixing plays because the play’s not broken. We’re just continually digging out new layers and things that we want to explore. And it’s not for me to write the play. I’m there to help the playwright find the best form of the play that they can find and that they can write.
And also, in that sense of a doula I want the experience to be a positive one. So, I think I’m also there to make sure the process is a safe and comfortable and a pleasurable experience to go through because it can be stressful. Just like birth. You’re there to make it be the best and most happy place it can be.
JAMES
You mentioned creating a safe space and I understand that but sometimes we’re dealing with plays that are asking difficult and complex questions and so we have to be open to uncomfortable discussions and exploring possibilities. How do you create a room that is open to discussion and yet is respectful and safe?
MIEKO
I think transparency is really helpful. Just being very transparent about those things and talking about them in advance and to say, “You know we’re coming up on this scene that’s really challenging and there’s a lot of content in there that might challenge us in personal ways.” So, you just give people a heads up and say, “If this brings up feelings and thoughts that are unexpected or that take over in a way that you weren’t hoping they would – just come and let me know and we can take a break.” Everyone has a heads up and there’s an open conversation.
And I think there are other artists now that we can invite into the room. There are fight choreographers. There are intimacy co-ordinators. And there are other people we can bring in who have the tools to help us. So, I think that’s been a really great evolution and it has made those things less like – let’s wing it and hope for the best to having a bit more structure and having conversations around it. I find when people have that space then things stay nice and calm, and we figure it out step by step, and everybody feels more comfortable.
JAMES
You’ve talked about your play The Red Priest and you’ve called it a very transformational experience. And I understand that it came into being because of Catalyst Theatre and they had commissioned some writers – you among them – to write short six-minute pieces. And you wrote something called Eight Ways to Say Goodbye. And afterwards you started working on expanding it because it had a great response.
And then Ron Jenkins made you playwright in residence – even though you’d never actually written a finished play – because he believed in you. And you ended up finishing the play, and it was nominated for a Governor General Award, and it won the Carol Bolt Award for Drama from The Playwrights Guild of Canada, and if you’re going to write a first play that’s a pretty auspicious beginning. So how did writing that play, winning that recognition, and having people believe in you transform your view of yourself as an artist?
Ashley Wright and Jamie Konchak in the ATP 2014 Production of The Red Priest (Eight Ways to Say Goodbye) by Mieko Ouchi. Photo Leah Hennel Calgary Herald
MIEKO
Well, I think one of the key things is I was so extraordinarily lucky to have Ron recognize me so early as a writer and to encourage me before I had that belief in myself. He believed in me before I believed in me. And there was something about the passion that he brought by saying, “I know you can do this. You have a voice. You just have to be brave enough to let it out,” that got me over the finish line.
He encouraged me to take a risk because it was a very personal story. From the outside you won’t know that. But I’d just gone through a really really heartbreaking relationship breakup in my life and that is very much imbued in the play even though the play’s not in any way autobiographical. A lot of the emotional feelings of what happened are in that play. He encouraged me to let that be there. And I think the lesson that I learned from that play with the recognition that it received was that the moments that people all brought to me afterwards – like audience members would say, “Oh, this moment is the moment that meant the most to me,” were all things that were true. They were emotionally true. There was a core of it that had happened to me, and I was revealing something very very honest. And I think to learn that lesson that early as a writer was an incredible gift because it taught me that when I was truthful people connected.
JAMES
How much do you think drama then is exploring our emotional response to the world?
MIEKO
I think it’s everything. I think that’s exactly what it is. Theatre just gives us this incredible chance to explore feelings that you might not have fully explored in real life where we don’t have a chance to say that to our parent or to our partner or to our child, but on stage we can kind of enact that.
Augusto Boal said, “Theatre is a rehearsal for change.” And I believe that too. It’s a chance to try out things that haven’t happened yet or to say, “What would happen if I put this scenario into a play?” So, for me, it’s been an incredible chance to explore not necessarily autobiographical things but emotionally things that I’ve been through or are thinking about.
JAMES
And then people who have experienced that same emotion even though the context might be different can relate to it.
MIEKO
Yeah.
JAMES
I’ve heard other artists talk about the more specific you make it the more universal it becomes.
MIEKO
One hundred percent. I’ve felt that totally. I really did feel that. And it was very exciting because at the same time that I was having this experience I was also working as a filmmaker and making documentaries. Initially, they were about my family and very biographical and even autobiographical types of projects. And so, I think I was in a world where I was trying to find truth. Whatever, that meant to me and to bring that forward. And that recognition really said, “You’re on the right track. Be brave. You’re onto something. Just keep going.”
The Citadel Theatre’s production of The Silver Arrow (2018) written by Mieko Ouchi. Photo by David Cooper
JAMES
You mentioned you went back to a play you wrote when you were seventeen and it seems to me all the writers I know have a drawer full of unfinished work. Sometimes we hit a wall and other projects become priorities and I’m curious about those unfinished projects. Do they go quietly into the drawer? Do they protest? Do they whisper to you? Do they remain dormant? When do you open that drawer and take them out and look at them again and work on them?
MIEKO
Those dormant plays – they’re just kind of asleep right now. They’re having a long nap – at the moment. Yeah, I have a couple. And I think they have to find their right time where I feel mentally ready to go back and explore them.
Meilie Ng as Lily in the 2011 ATP Production of Nisei Blue by Miecho Ouchi.
I have a project that premiered at ATP called Nisei Blue which was a noir detective story. And I felt like I didn’t quite get to the heart of it by the end of that production. It was a very fraught time because my father had just passed away before we started rehearsals. And my mind wasn’t fully hitting on all cylinders, and I wasn’t able to get to the heart of it because of everything going on in my life. So, now I’ve actually started a process of adapting that play into a novel and I feel like I am very slowly archaeologically getting there through a different medium. Sometimes it’s about digging into a play at a different time theatrically or maybe it’s approaching it through a different entry point.
JAMES
So now you’re exploring writing a novel — how is that? Fun? Exciting? What have you learned? Where are you at with that?
MIEKO
Oh, my gosh. So, when I started it was terrifying but also it was weirdly exciting because I thought, “I don’t know anything about this. So, who cares? Throw all the rules out the window. I don’t feel beholden to any rules or any lessons because I haven’t had any yet other than being an avid reader and knowing what I like to read. I don’t know any of the things that we’re supposed to know as a novelist. So, I’m just going to start writing the story from my heart — the way I kind of wrote The Red Priest” And there’s just something exciting to be at the very beginning of a learning process. To be at the bottom of this giant mountain looking up at the peaks and the great writers.
And I’m really intrigued by the interior voice. That’s something this novel has let me dig into with this character that I was never able to share with the audience in a stage production. I think my main character in Nisei Blue is a character with a really rich interior world and so writing a novel has really opened up the story for me because I’m able to share what’s running through his mind. And that’s been exciting. That’s been a totally fresh take on it. And it feels right. It feels like a good way to tell the story.
The Citadel Theatre’s production of Pride and Prejudice (2023), directed by Mieko Ouchi and featuring Morgan Yamada, Nadien Chu, Ben Elliott, Beth Graham and Gianna Vacirca. Photo by Nanc Price.
JAMES
This year there’s been a lot of chat about artificial intelligence, and I believe we’re on the edge of a really big disruption in science, business, and technology. And I don’t know what that looks like, and I don’t know if anyone really does but as an artist I was curious about your thoughts about AI and what sort of impact you think – positive or negative – it might have on the arts and the work you create.
MIEKO
Well, I think as a writer there’s a part of it where my heart just sinks at the thought of it. Because I believe in that human journey of struggling to find the path through writing and to find the path to expression. And to allow a computer-generated draft to be hacked out kind of hurts my soul a little bit as a writer, to be honest. But I suppose there might be some places where it is useful. There’s just something to me about the struggle to figure out the path of the story or the play that’s essential to its final shape and its humanity. And I know that some of the things that I’ve seen that have been AI generated that have been in the voice of Chekov or Shakespeare are kind of like gobbledegook.
As writers, we sometimes have this filler dialogue when we’re struggling and you have one person say, “Hello.” And the other person says, “Hi. Why are you looking at me that way?” And they say, “I don’t know. Why are you looking at me that way?” And nothing’s actually happening. We’re just going back and forth. It’s like we’re getting the rusty water out through the pipes until the clear water comes through and you get to the heart of a scene. And I sometimes feel that AI writing is a bit like that rusty water. It’s filler. It doesn’t really have that human drive and that soul that we need for writing to be compelling.
JAMES
There you go. Art is the exploration of the human soul.
MIEKO
That’s great. I love that.
Medal Presentation L to R: Arlene Strom, Chair Lg Arts Awards Foundation Board, Distinguished Artist Mieko Ouchi, Her Honour Salma Lakhani, Photo Credit Randy Feere
JAMES
So, my last question is about you receiving the Lieutenant Governor of Alberta Arts Award and I was wondering what the actual evening was like for you where everyone gathered to honour the recipients and what does it mean to you as an artist to be recognized for your work and receive a Lieutenant Governor of Alberta Arts Award?
MIEKO
Well, it was such a surprise to find out I was receiving the award. It was really just a kind of a heart-stopping moment to hear Kathy Classen on the other end of the phone when she called and told me. I couldn’t quite believe it. And going to Medicine Hat was a wonderful experience.
All of the recipients were able to bring friends and family members along and it really felt like a family kind of weekend. And they rolled out the red carpet for us. They put on this beautiful art festival at the centre with kids doing art. We had our event and then we had a street party with a concert headed up by none other than Hawksley Workman who I worked with on a production of my play The Silver Arrow. He wrote the music for it at the Citadel. They didn’t know that when they set it up but to have Hawksley there was like the cherry on top of the cake.
That night felt like such a beautiful recognition of Alberta and all the people who have supported these distinguished artists to help them get to where they are. So many people talked about the mentors they had along the way. The people who supported them. Fellow artists. Community members. Teachers. Family members. So, it really did feel like a celebration of all that it is to be an Alberta artist and to be someone that has chosen to come here and work or to remain here and work and there’s just something so beautiful about having that connection to Alberta.
L to R: Clint Lawrence, Mieko Ouchi, Michelle Thrush, Amanda Forbis, Wendy Tilby, Photo Credit Randy Feere
And everybody spoke about that and I think back to my earliest days being a student at Artstrek and having my first tiny little play workshopped at ATP and having Ronnie Burkett as my set designer and Kathy Eberle my high school drama teacher helping me submit my play for that program. And you know Marilyn Potts has been a supporter since way back and then you know Bob White and Dianne Goodman – and all the folks at ATP – John Murrell and so many other folks in this province.
And then all the folks when I came to Edmonton who supported me. You know Stephen Heatley gave me my first summer job at Theatre Network as a summer student. Ron Jenkins supporting me as a first-time playwright and as a playwright in residence. And then all the way up to now working here at the Citadel with Daryl Cloran as his Associate Artistic Director and his support of me and my writing but also my directing on A-House stages.
He gave me my first A-House directing job and he gave me my first commission for an A-House play with Silver Arrow. You really need those folks encouraging you and, in your corner, making opportunities for you to help you find your path.
And so now I get to have that reversed a little bit and in my job at the Citadel I get to support emerging artists and help them get their first assistant directing job or be a part of the playwright’s lab and help them work on their new plays, and I’m really enjoying being able to pass it along and being an opportunity maker for other artists.
On September 16th, 2023, friends, family, and members of the Alberta arts community gathered in Medicine Hat to celebrate this year’s recipients of The Lieutenant Governor of Alberta Distinguished Artist Awards. This year’s recipients include playwright and theatre artist Mieko Ouchi, film and theatre performer Michelle Thrush and film animators Amanda Forbis & Wendy Tilby.
Chair of the Lieutenant Governor of Alberta Arts Awards Arlene Strom said, “Albertans can be proud of the contributions of these Distinguished Artists who have pushed the boundaries of art to reflect indigenous identity and expression, present a more inclusive and diverse view of Alberta’s history, and highlight the art of film animation in Alberta and worldwide. Each has contributed immeasurably to the development of the province’s artists, arts communities and expanding art disciplines.”
L to R: Clint Lawrence, Mieko Ouchi, Michelle Thrush, Amanda Forbis, Wendy Tilby, Photo Credit Randy Feere
Her Honour, the Honourable Salma Lakhani, Lieutenant Governor of Alberta said, “The women receiving the Distinguished Artist Award this year have offered important contributions to the arts in Canada. We have all been granted the opportunity, through their work, to learn and grow in our understanding of the human condition. Artists such as these are essential to the lifeblood of our communities, and we are truly fortunate to have them as cultural leaders in their respective disciplines, in our province and our country as a whole.”
I contacted Michelle Thrush and Mieko Ouchi to talk with them about their work and creative process. You can read those interviews by following the links above. I also spoke with Wendy Tilby and Amanda Forbis who are celebrated Oscar nominated and award-winning contributors to the art of film animation. Their unique visual style has captured the hearts and imaginations of audiences worldwide in ground-breaking short films that explore themes of human connection, environmentalism, and the fragility of life. In our conversation we talked about how their work has evolved over the years, the relationship between the artist and the audience, and what it means to be recognized for their work by receiving The Lieutenant Governor of Alberta Arts Award.
JAMES HUTCHISON
After thirty-plus years you have created a body of work including the three films you’ve produced together and those are:
When the Day Breaks nominated for an Oscar in 1999 and is a story about a pig living in a large city who witnesses the accidental death of a stranger.
Wild Life which was nominated for an Oscar in 2012 and tells the story about a young remittance man sent from England to Alberta to try ranching in 1909 and who is not in any way prepared for the harsh conditions of prairie life he encounters.
And The Flying Sailor which was up for an Oscar this year and is inspired by the true story of Charles Mayers a sailor who was blown two kilometres through the air and landed naked but alive after the Halifax explosion on December 6, 1917.
So, I’m wondering how have the types of stories and themes you’re interested in evolved over the years. What kind of stories did you tell when you began your careers and what type of stories are you telling now, and do you see any sort of path from that early work to the work you’re doing now?
WENDY TILBY
Well, it’s funny, having completed our third film together we’re only now realizing that they’re really all the same. They have similar themes. Preoccupations. When we’re coming up with an idea we’re not thinking, “Oh, yes – let’s do something along the same lines of the previous one.” In fact, we actually specifically don’t do that. But we have noted, and other people point out, that there is a kind of a common thread that I suppose could be described as connectedness. That’s one theme that keeps emerging. And we do seem to touch on death a lot. We’re not obsessed with death, but death is an element of each of the three films and it seems to be a way to talk about life, or aspects of life. If you look at When the Day Breaks, Wildlife, and The Flying Sailor that idea has just become a little more distilled over the years.
When the Day Breaks Amanda Forbis & Wendy Tilby
AMANDA FORBIS
I think death is a part of every one of them. In The Day Breaks it was primarily about the unseen and often unappreciated ways in which we’re connected to others. In Wild Life it was more about what happens when that connection is severed. And in The Flying Sailor he seems to me to be going solo. He may be reviewing his life and reviewing his connections but he’s on his own and I’m reminded of the line, “You’re born alone, you live alone, and you die alone.” It’s a very bleak statement but we hope that The Sailor isn’t as bleak as that.
WENDY
The explosion and the near-death experience of the sailor is a way for us to explore, in a nutshell, who he was – which is what often happens in near-death experiences. There is a review of life that many people have written about and so we wanted to get at that question – what is life? Is it our physical selves? We’re made up of bones and cells and vessels, but really what our lives are is a collection of experiences and connections and relationships and memories, all encapsulated in this bag of flesh.
The Flying Sailor Amanda Forbis & Wendy Tilby
JAMES
You’re talking about connections and earlier today I was thinking about how social media has changed the way we connect to the world just as an individual experience. Have you been pondering social media and these connections between people and has that interested you in any way as something you want to explore in your work?
AMANDA
It certainly interests us on a personal level and on how you navigate it because it changes all the ground rules. I’ll just speak for myself. I sometimes say extremely rude things about other drivers from the safety of my own car, and what social media does is it provides us all with our own cars and everybody feels free to say horrible things to other people.
WENDY
Yes, the trolls come out.
AMANDA
But on the other hand, it is a fantastic connection tool. Even at my darkest moments on Facebook I still like seeing my cousin Barbara on her recumbent cycling trips in Oregon. And so just like every single human endeavour it’s a huge mixed bag. But as to whether that will filter its way into our work remains to be seen.
WENDY
Obviously, we contemplate it in a way that everybody does. We marvel at it and how we are able to connect with people virtually. In our film When the Day Breaks – which was made in the late 90s – connectedness is illustrated by way of the plumbing and wires, the telephone and subway – the vessels that literally connect us in cities. That all looks very quaint now.
When the Day Breaks Amanda Forbis & Wendy Tilby
AMANDA
I never thought of that but it’s true. It looks totally quaint.
WENDY
How much has changed in a couple of decades is remarkable.
JAMES
I think about the telephone a lot because I remember the family phone. And so the family phone was in the kitchen, and people would call the family. So, I would end up talking to my aunts and my parent’s friends, and when my friends would call my parents would end up talking to my friends. It was more of a community and you touched base with many different people involved with the family because it was a family phone. And that has gone away. Now we have our individual phones and I’ve lost all those unexpected connections to people that just don’t happen anymore.
WENDY
We even had a party line for a while.
AMANDA
Yeah, a party line. That’s a connection you don’t want. It is weird how we’re simultaneously much more disconnected to people and much more connected to them.
The Flying Sailor Amanda Forbis & Wendy Tilby
JAMES
My next question was about how people access your work now. We have YouTube we have Vimeo we have all these ways for me to access stuff through the internet on my desktop on my home TV. Not that long ago about the only way to see your work was if they ran it before a movie or you sought out the NFB library. Do you think that connection has changed the relationship between the filmmaker, the product, and the audience?
AMANDA
Well, yes. Short NFB films used to seem more precious. Now content feels really disposable. How much do they upload on YouTube every day — it’s astonishing. When we started out you could work in the short-animated film area and if you made a good film it would have a shelf life of at least forty years, and it would be in the pantheon of NFB films, and I’m not even sure that pantheon really exists anymore. So that’s one way in which it’s changed.
And people used to ask, “How do we see your work?” And we’d say, “You can go to the library or you can go to the NFB library or if you’re really lucky you might be able to see it at a theatre or on TV.” And so, it’s really lovely to be able to just direct people straight to your work. And also to have our film, The Flying Sailor, on The New Yorker site brought us a massive audience we hadn’t had before.
So, there are tremendous advantages like that, but then there’s the horrible prospect of people watching the film on their phone. I don’t think there’s any filmmaker that likes to see that happen. A couple of times we’ve had people say. “Oh yeah, I watched it on my phone.” And they don’t say much about it – and then if they happen to see it in a big theatre they’re much more profoundly affected. It’s a totally different experience.
The Flying Sailor Amanda Forbis & Wendy Tilby
WENDY
And we really struggled with that, particularly with The Flying Sailor, because the sound was mixed in a new technology called Atmos, which is a souped-up Dolby with a lot of speakers. We’re not really fans of a lot of the gimmicks with sound but in this case when you experienced the film in a theatre with Atmos in just the right circumstances, it was fantastic. You felt the sound of the explosion viscerally and not in a gimmicky way. We’ve had to accept that very few people are going to see it that way.
JAMES
So, in theatre ten-minute plays are very popular. And I think ten minutes as a platform lets you break some conventions and look at stories in different ways and I’m wondering in what ways do you think the short film format allows you to explore things differently – to look at different subjects – and topics and to examine story.
WENDY
I think the length is appealing to us as animators because of the way we work. We’re like a little cottage industry. We like to do everything ourselves and there’s a handcrafted quality to what we do. The more people you get involved the more diluted that process is and it’s hard to find ten people to paint the way we paint or to draw the way we draw. And if more people are involved it becomes an assembly line. Animation, no matter how you do it, is onerous – it’s tedious – and it’s going to require a lot of hands the longer it gets. So, feature length animation always looks a little watered down in terms of the technique.
AMANDA
Well not always. It depends on who’s doing it.
WENDY
Well, they’re less idiosyncratic because it’s an assembly line. And also the budgets are such that to get the money needed to make a feature it has to be a money-maker. And what we do at the Film Board is not reliant on it making money. We’re making films as art and there’s no expectation it’s going to turn a profit. And so as a filmmaker and as an artist that’s a…
AMANDA
…gift…
WENDY
… and greatly appealing. So, nobody’s going to be after us about it being popular in that sense. And we like the concision. It’s like a poem or a short story. Everything we put in there is in there is there for a reason because it’s so much work. We wouldn’t put it in there if it wasn’t furthering our story. We’re striving to convey character in as few strokes as possible and that’s challenging and that’s interesting to us.
Wild Life Amanda Forbis & Wendy Tilby
AMANDA
You come up with an idea for a shot and it has to convey a number of things. You’re trying to pack as much into every shot as you can and then you tweak it so it goes in a slightly different direction and it says more. And then you throw it out. Then you put it back in again. It’s a bit of a puzzle. A creative puzzle. And it’s a lot of fun and that’s something that I don’t think the long form does in the same way.
And as you say it frees you up from conventional dramatic structure. You don’t necessarily have to have a dramatic arc and a climax three-quarters of the way through and then have the character be changed and be a new person at the end of the story. You don’t have to follow those conventional structures because you’re not holding the audience that long, so we’re big fans of the short structure.
WENDY
Short animation is also is also a very rich form of expression. If you go to an animation festival and you see an evening of animation with one film after another it’s almost too much. It’s like too many candies at once because each one is so rich.
Wild Life Amanda Forbis & Wendy Tilby
JAMES
I’m curious about your thoughts right now in regard to artificial intelligence. We’re just on the cusp of something changing and I’m not looking for any definite answers. But in the six months, it’s just been in the conversation. There are good things and bad things about it just like you mentioned before with social media. What are some of your general thoughts about AI and how do you feel it’s going to influence your work and the future of creation?
WENDY
A friend of ours, Jay Ingram, just published a book called The Future of Us. He was writing about AI just as ChatGPT was coming out – along with other major developments – and he kept having to update it. It was frustrating because even by the publication date the landscape was still changing. And so, it’s one of those things that’s almost impossible to talk about because the ground is shifting beneath our feet.
In our field people are nervous about it. And I think it’s actually more nerve-wracking when you think about it in the context of news and people imitating other people’s likeness or voice. And we work in advertising too and that’s a whole other ball game. I think in advertising it’s going to put a lot of people out of work, particularly in storyboarding or visualizing.
It’s actually a helpful tool because you can ask it to visualize a scene in three dimensions which is helpful for storyboarding and blocking the action. Whether it will replace what we’re doing remains to be seen, but what we’re doing is so specifically aimed at something that’s not AI that I hope that distinction will continue to be appreciated. But I don’t know. It is a little bit frightening and intriguing at the same time.
AMANDA
I think one of the things that bothers me is that since 1830 or whatever we’ve been looking at the extinction of craft. People who craft. Craftsmen. And what Wendy was saying is the people who storyboard and who do previsualization – these people who are deeply committed to that part of filmmaking – they’re out of a job. And that’s regrettable because humans are built to craft, and craftspeople always bring a depth to what they’re doing that cannot be imitated – in the same way that a handmade box is a completely different thing than a box that’s slammed together in a factory.
And then if you consider that we don’t even really understand how AI learns at this point and how it’s producing what it does we can’t really know where it’s going to end or if it’s going to end. And that’s pretty alarming.
So, the thing I have to lean on as an artist and I’m talking about the realm of really great art – that I’m not going to lay claim to – but a really great piece of art takes you somewhere that you didn’t see coming, or makes a point to you that you understand but it comes from way back in the depths of your brain and you recognize the truth of it. I would like to believe that’s beyond AI.
So, I trotted that thought out to our friend Jay and Jay said, “Oh, bullshit.” (laughs) He said, “It’ll get there.” And then I thought, “Well he’s not an artist. I don’t know if he necessarily feels that in the same way as I do.”
WENDY
Well, it brings up so many bigger questions about consciousness and what it is to be human and the big question of whether or not machines will ever get there. We’ve played a little bit with Midjourney and it’s a program where you can tell it to give you an image of a man running down a hallway…
AMANDA
…in the style of Picasso…
WENDY
…carrying a briefcase and see what comes up. And it’s very good at ultra-realism and it’s astonishing really what it does but it’s quite boring. A lot of people would be seduced by it and enraptured by the images that it gives you. We didn’t really like them but we were impressed by it that’s for sure.
L to R: Arlene Strom, Chair Lg Arts Awards Foundation Board, Distinguished Artists Amanda Forbis, Wendy Tilby, Her Honour Salma Lakhani, Photo Credit Randy Feere
JAMES
You’re one of this year’s recipients of the Lieutenant Governor of Alberta Arts Awards and so what was that evening like – you know – where everyone gathered to honour the recipients? What sort of weekend was it like and what does it mean to be recognized for your work by receiving that award?
AMANDA
The evening itself was – what’s the right word – it was elegant. It was really a wonderful event, and everybody involved with it did such a great job, and Salma Lakhani was fantastic. I don’t know how to get past saying all these effusive things, but it was a beautiful evening, and it was actually a genuine honour to be there. The whole weekend was really fun.
WENDY
And two dear friends of ours were also there. Part of the award is you are able to honour one other artist. We actually sneaked in with two because there are two of us after all. And they were there and that made it especially fun. It was more fun than the Oscars.
AMANDA
It was more meaningful than the Oscars.
WENDY
And much less stress.
AMANDA
And I don’t think we’ve necessarily been on Alberta’s radar (if I can even say a strange thing like that) so to get that honour at a provincial level and to be declared someone of note in the Alberta Arts scene felt pretty great. Of course, at the Oscars, you talk to lots of people who have interesting things to say about your work and care very deeply about animation, but really that kind of all gets swept aside for the grand pageant and the promotion. But to be nominated for the LG award by somebody in the Arts community and then have it juried by the Arts community is very meaningful. It’s much more meaningful than measuring success by whether or not our film was on a billboard on Sunset Boulevard.
On September 16th, 2023, friends, family, and members of the Alberta arts community gathered in Medicine Hat to celebrate this year’s recipients of The Lieutenant Governor of Alberta Distinguished Artist Awards. This year’s recipients include playwright and theatre artist Mieko Ouchi, film and theatre performer Michelle Thrush and film animators Wendy Tilby & Amanda Forbis.
Chair of the Lieutenant Governor of Alberta Arts Awards Arlene Strom said, “Albertans can be proud of the contributions of these Distinguished Artists who have pushed the boundaries of art to reflect Indigenous identity and expression, present a more inclusive and diverse view of Alberta’s history, and highlight the art of film animation in Alberta and worldwide. Each has contributed immeasurably to the development of the province’s artists, arts communities and expanding art disciplines.”
L to R, Arlene Strom, Chair LG Arts Awards Foundation Board, Wendy Tilby, Amanda Forbes, Her Honour Salma Lakhani, Mieko Ouchi, Michelle Thrush, Photo credit Randy Feere
Her Honour, the Honourable Salma Lakhani, Lieutenant Governor of Alberta said, “The women receiving the Distinguished Artist Award this year have offered important contributions to the arts in Canada. We have all been granted the opportunity, through their work, to learn and grow in our understanding of the human condition. Artists such as these are essential to the lifeblood of our communities, and we are truly fortunate to have them as cultural leaders in their respective disciplines, in our province and our country as a whole.”
I contacted Mieko Ouchi as well as Wendy Tilby and Amanda Forbis to talk with them about their work and creative process. You can read those interviews by following the links above. I also spoke with Nehiyaw performing artist Michelle Thrush a multiple award-winning actor whose acting credits include Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee, North of 60, Blackstone, Prey, and Bones of Crows. She is also a director, producer, community builder, and one of the founding members and current Artistic Director of the ground-breaking Making Treaty 7 Cultural Society. In our conversation we talked about her career, about her one-woman show Inner Elder, and what it means to be recognized for her work by receiving The Lieutenant Governor of Alberta Arts Award.
JAMES HUTCHISON
Michelle, when you look back over the course of your career and the body of your work as an artist in what ways has it been an intentional journey and in what ways has it been more a road of discovery?
MICHELLE THRUSH
That’s an interesting question because back when I was a kid there were not Indigenous people on television or anywhere really. We weren’t a part of the shows I watched like Little House on the Prairie when I was a kid or if we were it was Italians playing us. It was something that wasn’t in our psyche and so in my little brown girl brain I never thought that I could be an actress or work in the arts.
But I grew up loving pretending and loving imagination and I was always trying to get my friends together and direct shows and put on plays. And then when I was sixteen or seventeen, I met a man named Gordon Tootoosis who along with Tantoo Cardinal, Gary Farmer, Grahame Greene, Augee Schellenberg, Margo Kane, and of course Chief Dan George were all doing little bit roles here and there on film and that was the beginning for Indigenous people. I’d see them and think whoa there’s a real native person and they’d have a line in a movie like Running Brave where Robbie Benson who is Jewish played the actual star of Running Brave who was a Lakota.
And Gordon who was just a beautiful indigenous actor really encouraged me to follow my dreams and he said, “Michelle it’s important that we tell our stories from a place of honesty.” My big goal in life at that time was to be a social worker. And I ended up throwing that aside and just going, “Okay, I’m going to move to Vancouver from Calgary at nineteen and I’m going to try and get an agent and I’m just going to hope and pray that auditions come up.”
So, I did all that. Moved to Vancouver. And it took a few years of working in restaurants before I started to get a few little auditions. And I often say in 1992 Dances With Wolves came out and that’s when things began to open up for us as actors, and I ended up getting into a TV series called North of Sixty, and that was the beginning. And things just kind of fell into place after that.
It’s interesting you mentioned you were looking at being a social worker and I wonder if there are connections between that career and acting. Because social work and sociology look at relationships between people and between people and society and I think an actor has to sensitive towards those kinds of things.
MICHELLE
I think the connection for me was I grew up with two chronic alcoholic parents. And I didn’t realize the trauma that my family had been through because as a kid – and it’s really hard for me to talk about this – but as a child I had so much shame when it came to being an Indigenous person because I related it to the pain and the trauma of my parents and of my grandparents and of my aunts and uncles and everybody else in my family who was alcoholic. And as a child that imagination part for me was about creating these other scenarios that didn’t include violence and all that stuff that comes along with trauma which is a big part of my one-woman show Inner Elder.
Michelle Thrush in her One-Woman Show Inner Elder, Photo Ben Laird
So, when I was a kid, I knew it wasn’t proper that my parents didn’t know how to be parents. I knew it wasn’t proper that they would drink for days and us kids would fend for ourselves. In my brain, I thought if I become a social worker I can create change in this world for children. I can do something that’s going to make sure other Indigenous children don’t have to go through what I went through.
And then I realized through meeting Gordon and getting involved in acting that the power we have as artists can change the world and we wouldn’t have to deal with all the red tape it would take to be a social worker. It was like fast-tracking the ability to create a shift in people’s thinking.
Back then, of course, we didn’t have Truth and Reconciliation. We didn’t realize our families were suffering from this huge history. I just thought that my parents were messed up and I felt a lot of shame because I swore to God that every white kid at my school went home, and their moms would hand them cookies as they walked through the front door, and they had these perfect homes and alcohol didn’t touch white people. That’s how I thought when I was a kid. I thought it was something that was part of who we were as Indigenous people. But then you know obviously I learned that alcoholism touches everybody.
So, that connection between acting and social work was a very strong connection because there was the ability to really affect people’s lives using the arts as opposed to going in and trying to work with the family of Indigenous children. And almost all my work still leans in that direction, you know, trying to create healing. And I always say, “We aren’t in it for Shakespeare. We don’t do what we do to recite Shakespeare. We do what we do to create healing and to contribute to the goodness of our communities and our children.”
Eric Schweig, Darla Contois and Michelle Thrush in the Canadian Drama Television Series Little Bird
JAMES
You mentioned healing and change and you’re one of the founding members and the current Artistic Director of Making Treaty 7 Cultural Society and on your website, it says – “Making Treaty 7 is dedicated to Indigenous artistic expression and the transfer of Indigenous knowledge through story.” So, what are some of the things you feel you’ve accomplished so far and what are some of the plans, goals, and hopes for the future?
MICHELLE
Making Treaty 7 has had this really long history and I’ll just explain a bit of the history about how we began. Michael Greene who was one of the founding members of One Yellow Rabbit and is a beautiful Icon in theatre here in Calgary was a good friend of mine for many years and a huge supporter of the work I did in theatre with Indigenous story. And he was always trying to figure out ways to bring more Indigenous presence into the High Performance Rodeo and whatever else was going on in Calgary.
So, back in 2012 he became the curator of something called Calgary 2012 which was when Calgary became the artistic capital of Canada for a year. He ran that and we put together a committee of about ten of us – Indigenous and non-Indigenous – so we could have an Indigenous presence and we ended up forming a template for what we wanted to do. Part of that was exploring the land and the history here in Southern Alberta and how the land connects us to story. And not a lot of people including us – I’m Cree – my family is from Maple Creek Saskatchewan Treaty 4 but I grew up here in Treaty 7 and I have family who are married into the Blackfoot Confederacy, but we didn’t know much about the treaty.
The Making Treaty 7 production of O’kosi with Garret C. Smith, Mary Rose Cohen, Michelle Thrush, Janine Owlchild, and Dustin Frank. PHOTO: Hidden Story Productions.
So, I didn’t know anything about the treaty and the Blackfoot artists that we brought in didn’t know a lot about the treaty which was signed in September 1877 in Siksika. So, it was a huge learning journey for us, and Micheal ended up writing these big grants and bringing together over a hundred elders from Southern Alberta. And we asked what do you know about Treaty 7? And a lot of their parents and their grandparents were at the Treaty signing and so they opened up this huge vessel for us. And as artists we spent the whole weekend just listening to all these elders talk about the Treaty and the true intention of Treaty 7. And they talked about what life was like leading up to the signing, what life was like on those ten days, and what life was like after the Treaty was signed. What were the repercussions? What happened with the Indian Act. All these things.
And they just filled us up with all this incredible knowledge and we went out to Banff Centre for two weeks. And Micheal asked myself and Blake Brooker to be the directors of the show and I was an actor and a writer on it as well. And we came up with the very first Making Treaty 7 and we had to perform it for the Elders first and get their permission which we did. And it became this huge spectacle of incredible entertainment which brought in all the voices that call Southern Alberta home but was an Indigenously led process.
And since then we’ve been expanding on that and as the Artistic Director my goal is to wake up the stories that belong here. That are a part of this land. And to decolonize theatre and create a safe space for Indigenous people to tell stories of the land and I’m very proud because Making Treaty 7 is doing some really beautiful work.
Bernard Starlight and Quelemia Sparrow in The Making Treaty 7 production of Tara Began’s The Ministry of Grace. Photo Alanna Bluebird
JAMES
You mentioned your own show. You touched on it and I wanted to ask you a little bit about that. It’s called Inner Elder. I saw it when you did it at Lunchbox Theatre and really enjoyed it and thought it was an amazing piece of theatre. And in it you transform into an Elder in the play and it’s moving. It’s funny. What was the genesis of the story and what are some of the highlights of performing that piece?
MICHELLE
So, more than thirty years ago this character started coming through me and she was an old woman and she loved comedy. Her name is Kookum Martha and she was very much a clown in a lot of ways. And so I started to do comedy and she started to be known as an MC of various Indigenous conferences and concerts in Canada. And I hosted the Inspire Awards on CBC a few years back and we did some things with Kookum on there. And in 2018 Ann Connors was the curator of the High Performance Rodeo and she had seen my Kookum character and Anne’s like, “Why don’t you create a big show and we’ll fund you and we’ll present you for the Rodeo.”
Michelle Thrush as Kookum Martha in Inner Elder at the High Performance Rodeo Photo Elyse Bouvier
And so, I was like how can I do a show in a way that honours the clown of Kookum as well as telling my own story in a way that doesn’t make me a victim. That allows me to sort of flip the script on what it means to grow up in an alcoholic environment and then winning the Gemini for playing a chronic alcoholic on Blackstone which is a show I starred on for many years. And I created a show about learning how to take what’s given to us in life and then turning it into something that works for us.
And when I get into the zone with Kookum she can get wild on stage and I’m like, “Oh my God, did I just hear her say that?” And I tell people when they hire me to do my comedy with Kookum I am not responsible for any marriages that break up because she goes after the white guys all the time. She picks on them and they fall in love with her. It’s a fun character. And I’m a true believer that as artists we channel our energy through us and it’s not about us – it’s about being vulnerable enough to bring that energy through us.
JAMES
That’s part of the magic of theatre I suppose that moment that you’re so fully in the story and the performance that it’s almost not really you.
MICHELLE
Yeah, it’s magic. And it happens in film too. I swear to God on that episode of Blackstone I did where I won the Gemini I stood there on my mark before I heard action and I prayed and called in my grandmothers, and they took over my body and I felt like I was allowing them to work me through that scene. And low and behold I won a Gemini and a whole bunch of other awards but it’s that trust to be able to really zone in taking the focus off of yourself and putting it on the story and then just allowing that energy to come through you. It’s about being vulnerable to the moment of creation.
Tantoo Cardinal as Wilma Stoney and Michelle Thrush as Gail Stoney in Blackstone
JAMES
You know one of the things art can do is help us understand our place in the universe but I’m sort of curious as an artist do you think art provides actual answers or do you think art operates more to provoke us to come up with answers and ask questions.
MICHELLE
I think both. I often say as Indigenous artists that we’re frontline workers. We shine light into places that are dark. And the work that we do is not just about a love story or whatever. The work we do whether it’s in film or in theatre is tough and it sometimes creates huge amounts of triggers for people because what we focus on is bringing to light things that people don’t want to talk about.
And the work that I’ve done through the years and all of us as Indigenous Artists have done through the years is really truly groundbreaking work I think because that’s how you bring healing. I often say if you have a wound and you just continue to cover it all the time with Band-Aids it will never heal. You have to be able to bring the light to allow that wound to heal and I feel that’s what we do as artists – we bring light.
Bones of Crows, Day 2
Ayasew Ooskana Pictures
JAMES
And I think you need multiple stories right? You need many stories. Like you mentioned initially Indigenous actors were getting little bit parts and now we’re seeing shows like Bones of Crows. That’s an epic story. I watched that and I thought it really is an outline for a five-season series. Because it’s massive. Each episode could be ten episodes. But having that story now expands what you can tell in the future, I think.
MICHELLE
Exactly because again, it brought light to something that previously wasn’t lit up. Like that whole history most Canadians don’t understand any of it. Our own people are just beginning to understand what happened in reality and when you do bring light you bring life and then you’re right it just spreads out and it creates more conversations and it gives people permission to be able to discuss those things that were taboo twenty years ago. It’s about expanding consciousness really you know as artists.
I was proud of Bones of Crows. Marie Clements is a dear, dear, friend of mine from years ago. I’ve worked on many of her things and it took her five years to get Bones of Crows to camera. It took a huge team to convince CBC and to get all the funding and it’s a fully Indigenously created, directed, written, acted, performance.
JAMES
So, Artificial Intelligence has exploded onto the scene this year and it’s going to be disruptive in science and art and everything and I am just sitting here going well – this is good – this is bad – so I’ve been asking a few artists and a few friends what are their thoughts about AI. What sort of an impact do you think it’s going to have?
MICHELLE
I don’t know. I feel like I’ve got my head in the sand and I’m trying to avoid talking about AI because it really bugs me. I have so many friends that are all pro AI and how it’s going to change everything and I’m just like, “No, I just want real humans. I have a hard enough time checking out at Safeway with computers” I’m so old school in that way and so I’m sort of in denial about AI and I don’t have a lot to say about it.
JAMES
It’s hard to know what the impacts are going to be.
MICHELLE
It is. Even the SAG strike had a lot to do with AI. And who knows man. They can do a video now of you and change what you’re saying and that scares me.
JAMES
It’s getting difficult to be able to distinguish between the fake and the real. And that can be scary. So, I guess we’ll have to talk about this in five years?
MICHELLE
Exactly.
2023 Distinguished Artist Michelle Thrush with family and friends, Photo credit Randy Feere
JAMES
So, you’re one of the recipients this year of the Lieutenant Governor of Alberta Arts Awards and I was wondering what was that evening like for you where everyone gathered to honour the recipients. What sort of evening was it and what does it mean to you to be recognized for the award?
MICHELLE
It was a fun weekend. It was a whole weekend it wasn’t just one evening. The funnest part of it was they did it in Medicine Hat this year and my family comes from Maple Creek which is just forty-five minutes down the number one highway on the Saskatchewan side. So, when I found out I was receiving this amazing award and that it was in Medicine Hat I called everybody – “Everybody’s got to come to this.” So, the highlight of receiving that award was having two or three rows of my family – Indigenous faces out there with all these government officials. And it’s not often that we feel comfortable or welcomed into these types of spaces, right?
JAMES
Right.
MICHELLE
Even just in theatre alone and that’s a big part of my whole agenda is trying to find ways to make sure that Indigenous people feel comfortable in the theatre. It’s the same thing for these types of awards. My cousin got the Chief to come and they did a ceremony with me when I went up on the stage. It’s a beautiful ceremony where they come up to you on both sides and they just wrap you in this blanket. And they did that with a star quilt which is a beautiful handmade style of blanket. And to me that was such a beautiful gesture of honour. I’m glad obviously I got the Lieutenant Governor Award and the gold pin and all that wonderful stuff but to have my family there and to be recognized in that way was also an honour.
L to R: Lori Davis, Michelle Thrush, Chief Rossa Wahobin, Nakaneet First Nation, Chief Rossa Wahobin presented Michelle with a Star Quilt in recognition of her achievements, Photo credit Randy Feere
JAMES
How does it feel to be offering that mentorship now to others because Indigenous artists and young people today can look to you and see somebody who has a successful career?
MICHELLE
I try to stay away from this whole role model thing with Indigenous people. I don’t believe in putting anybody on a pedestal no matter who they are. I think we are all amazing contributors to each others light. But I do understand because when Blackstone came out my whole life shifted. I felt like a lot of my privacy was shifted with my own people because going to Pow Wows and stuff people are always coming up and they’re like, “Oh, my gosh, your character on that show was my mom or my auntie or my grandmother and then they would tell me this whole story of you know alcoholism in their family and how my character gave them permission to be able to discuss that.” And so again as an artist, it’s shining that light onto previous taboo topics and giving people permission to speak about it without shame and to share that load.
JAMES
How do you stay resilient then? Because that sounds like sometimes a heavy burden.
MICHELLE
I don’t know if it’s a burden at all. I think it’s just really a part of our development in this world. There are so many amazing beautiful things happening for Indigenous people right now. Like Reservation Dogs is on and we’ve got people in the NHL. And I remember I was on George Stroumboulopoulos back in the day – The Strombo Show – and I remember mentioning Wab Kinew who was rising up in the political scene and saying you know this is a young man who inspires me and now he’s Premier of Manitoba. And it’s just expanding continuously, and I get hope from seeing our young people. There are so many young people right now that are so resilient, and they are pushing boundaries that I never thought about when I was a teenager or when I was in my early twenties. I see these young people resurrecting language and being proud of who they are and that’s what keeps me going really is just knowing that we’ve got so many incredible young people.
Cambrian Players Present ‘A Christmas Carol’. Directed by Thomas McDonald and starring Gabe Ferrazzo as Ebenezer Scrooge.
The spirit of Christmas is alive and well in Thunder Bay Ontario as the Cambrian Players present my adaptation of A Christmas Carol directed by Thomas McDonald and starring Gabe Ferrazzo as Ebenezer Scrooge. The production runs from November 29th to December 2nd and December 6th to 9th, with a special Matinee Performance and Tea on Sunday, December 3rd at 2 p.m. and a live-streamed performance on December 8th. There’s also a “pay what you may performance” on Thursday, November 30th. Tickets start at just $22.63 and are available online by following this link: The Cambrian Players present A Christmas Carol: Every man has the power to do good.
I contacted Thomas McDonald to talk with him about the Cambrian Players, his love of theatre, and this year’s production of A Christmas Carol.
JAMES HUTCHISON
So, who are the Cambrian Players and what’s their history? Tell me a little bit about the company and its vision and plans for the future.
THOMAS MCDONALD
Cambrian Players is Thunder Bay’s longest-running community theatre group and has been completely volunteer-run since 1949. It’s truly Theatre For the Love of It! Over the past seventy-plus years, Cambrian Players has presented over 200 mainstage plays, numerous Improv shows, and has recently added a Green Room semi-staged play reading series to its offerings. This season we’re producing on our mainstage, your version of A Christmas Carol ~ Every Man Has The Power To Do Good, as well as Charles Way’s adaptation of The Snow Queen, and Anthony Shaffer’s Sleuth.
Cambrian Players is an inclusive volunteer-led, non-profit community theatre organization fostering an appreciation of theatre by producing diverse amateur theatrical productions of the highest quality. We provide training in all aspects of theatrical production both on and offstage; recreational and volunteer opportunities; and affordable entertainment for our members and the community.
Cambrian Players strives to be accessible and a leader in community theatre. Cambrian Players purchased their first home in 2017, a historic building – formerly the Polish Hall on Spring Street. While the building is an incredible new home, it requires retrofitting to be accessible for all our wonderful patrons and volunteers. In advance of our 75th year, we are raising funds to renovate the theatre through a new capital campaign we call Spotlight On Inclusivity, which we hope will make our space physically accessible for all of our patrons.
JAMES
What is it you personally love about theatre? Why do it? What does it provide? What have been some of the magical moments for you as either a director or an actor or as an audience member?
THOMAS
I have been in love with theatre since I was a kid. The first professional show I ever saw was the touring company of Anne of Green Gables from Charlottetown – I know, how Canadian, eh? – and my heart was gone. The idea of escaping to a different world struck me, and I was hooked, and frankly, I still am. As my hubby will tell you, I do a lot of theatre with Cambrian, the College Performing Arts Club, Applauze Productions, and in the past the 10×10 Short Play Festival and during Covid-19 with Come Play With Me Digital Theatre and that love of theatre has never waned.
I work with a lot of amateur performers and people who are new to theatre both on and offstage and I love seeing them come alive and fall in love with the process and ultimately the product. There’s something about seeing their eyes light up and their confidence grow when they get a laugh, or meaningful silence or hear applause just for them the very first time. It provides a home and a chosen family for a lot of folks who, like me, were misfit kids.
As far as magical moments go, I love being surprised in the theatre, seeing a performance that is unexpected, or listening to an actor and realizing you are so caught up in their words that you’re holding your breath. Or feeling tears come to your eyes as you relate to what is happening, or it touches your spirit in a way that you weren’t expecting. However, I still hold on to seeing Anne of Green Gables that first time, and as they sang Ice Cream looking over and seeing my Grandma smile back at me, and knowing we were experiencing that joy together.
Cambrian Players Present ‘A Christmas Carol’. Directed by Thomas McDonald and starring Gabe Ferrazzo as Ebenezer Scrooge.
JAMES
This year you’re producing A Christmas Carol. So, why do you think we keep telling this story? The story of Scrooge. The story of the spirits? Why does it still resonate today?
THOMAS
The story turns 180 this year and still it speaks just as loudly. It’s a redemption story, and who doesn’t love a redemption story? The way you’ve given us Scrooge in this adaptation is very human. He is committed to the life he has chosen, in his mind for all the right reasons. He is “a good man of business”; but not in fact a “good man”. The chances the spirits give him – are to a point – like the choices we make every day. The ways we can do good, but are too busy, too self-involved, too single-minded to see them as what they are – opportunities to better the world we live in. Our Scrooge, Gabe Ferrazzo, says that of all the roles he’s played – Prospero, Shylock, Julius Caesar and more – no role has affected him more personally than Scrooge. A man reflecting on the years behind him, knowing there are fewer years ahead.
Not only the way you have written Scrooge but also the way you’ve written Marley and Scrooge together has given us Marley with more to be redeemed from. The way he isolates Scrooge from all he loves and rewards him for following in his footsteps. The father figures in this version of the story speak to people, Scrooge’s clear struggle with his own father, then being mentored by Fezziwig, then having his head turned by Marley, and then ultimately Scrooge’s relationship with his nephew Fred, and Scrooge’s desire to toughen him for the world are poignant. It’s universal. It’s human. It’s a story for all of us.
JAMES
Every theatre company brings their own vision to telling the story. Tell me a little bit about the vision for this year’s production and the cast you’ve assembled to bring the story to the stage and what magical elements can people look forward to experiencing when they come to see the show.
THOMAS
We are so very blessed to have assembled this talented multi-generational cast. Twenty-five actors play thirty-nine roles – which is a lot for our very small theatre! – ranging in age from 11 to 70+, and ranging in experience have come together to bring your story to life and also provide mentoring and learning opportunities which Cambrian Players sees as the heart of what we do. With so large a cast, we have had to be creative and use all the available space making it a semi-immersive production. We have turned our stage into a world frozen in time, anchored by a huge clock face and a flurry of letters and ledger pages frozen in time.
The idea of Scrooge as a stuck clock came into our minds as we plotted the show and began considering the way Scrooge moves through his world, in straight lines focused on his goals, and it’s not until the spirits intervene that we get circular movement as the clock – or Scrooge’s heart – begins ticking again. We have approached the spirits in an interesting way, but you’ll have to come and see the show or tune in for our virtual production to see it for yourself. There is a real humanity to the show which has been the core of our approach, with period-appropriate costumes, nuanced performances and finding the humour and pathos in the play, we hope to do your play justice and make it something magical for everyone.
Prior to each performance a musical community member will be busking in support of our Spotlight on Inclusivity Campaign and our matinee tea will support the same. We will be doing a relaxed performance in partnership with our friends from Autism Ontario, to present the show in a way that will be safe and welcoming for their members to attend and experience the magic of A Christmas Carol first hand!
JAMES
So, Tom, every year the King gives his Christmas message, and the Prime Minister gives his, the Pope chimes in as well. Politicians, artists, and religious leaders all have their own Christmas messages. What is your Christmas message to your friends and family and the world this holiday season?
THOMAS
I hope that you all find light, love, and strength this holiday season. I hope that you are with those who love you, whether blood or chosen family. I hope that you have an outlet for creativity in your life. I hope that you feel community, and can give back to it. I hope that your heart is light, and you can make peace with that with which you struggle. I hope that you are safe and sheltered, warm and full, cared for and have those to care for. Merry Christmas from Thunder Bay, and from Cambrian Players!
***
A Christmas Carol directed by Thomas McDonald and starring Gabe Ferrazzo as Ebenezer Scrooge runs from November 29th to December 2nd and December 6th to 9th, with a special Matinee Performance and Tea on Sunday, December 3rd at 2pm and a live-streamed performance on December 8th. There’s also a “pay what you may performance” on Thursday, November 30th. Tickets start at just $22.63 and are available online by following this link: The Cambrian Players present A Christmas Carol: Every man has the power to do good.
Cambrian Players Present ‘A Christmas Carol – Every Man has the Power to do Good’ By Charles Dickens Adapted for the stage by James Hutchison Directed by Thomas McDonald.
Our cast features 25 talented local performers both new and familiar to our audiences: Gabe Ferrazzo as Ebenezer Scrooge with Adam Wayne Lyew-Sang, Alex Jecchinis, Andrea Jacobsen, Ariana McLean, Ben Albert, Caden Lear, Chris Jason, Emily Upper, Janis Swanson, Jarin Brown, Jerry Silen, Joelle Krupa, Joshua Mulzer, Joy Haessler, Kenzie Dillon, Matthew Henry, Matthew Jollineau, Pauline Krupa, Penelope Upper-Smith, Richard Pepper, Ruth Currie, Shawna Marshall, Taylor Onski, Wyatt Krupa
Joe Perry in The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde. Photo Fifth Wall Media
The Vertigo Theatre production of The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde promises love – betrayal – and murder – and it delivers all three in a highly theatrical production all brought to life by a terrific cast under the artful direction of Javier Vilalta.
Joe Perry takes on the role of the tortured genius in a physically demanding and nightmare-filled performance. Daniel Fong is the voice of reason as Dr. Jekyll’s friend Hastings Lanyon. Grant Tilly plays Gabriel Utterson whose investigations eventually reveal the true relationship between Hyde and Jekyll. And Allison Lynch plays Eleanor Lanyon a smart complex woman who finds herself being drawn towards darkness and obsession.
This is a story of mystery and horror and the lighting, costumes, live music performed by the actors, the towering brick walls, and intermittent fog all add to the growing sense of dread and doom. Nick Lane’s script is faithful to the original story while providing some new and exciting elements. The play works best when there are big bold moments as we follow Jekyll – a man whose desire to provide the world with scientific knowledge – is thwarted by the monstrous pleasure-driven animalistic side of his own humanity.
I contacted Joe Perry to talk with him about the production and the process of bringing this classic tale to the Vertigo stage.
JAMES HUTCHISON
What does Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde say about the light and the darkness that dwells in all of us?
JOE PERRY
It’s really looking at that duality and what happens when desperation and unintended consequences put you in a situation where you have to reconcile your own morals. Dr. Jekyll starts out doing his research looking to leave his mark on humanity but there is this unintended consequence. He feels released physically. Because as Dr. Jekyll he’s trapped in this physically ill body and when he becomes Hyde he’s free. But that freedom has consequences. And now he has to make a choice. Does he move towards that freedom that he gets with Hyde, or does he continue his work with the integrity that he originally intended?
And I also think part of the exploration is that we all have thoughts that are not something we’re proud of or something that we would say out loud, but the repression of that – of its very existence – is not going to make them go away. It’s just going to bottle them up and then they’ll explode out in an animalistic way. I think possibly that’s a bit of what people are afraid of in themselves. And being Hyde gives him this freedom and this release but at a cost to everyone around him and at the cost of his own sanity and at the cost of people’s lives and safety. And yet he can’t not do it because that freedom is so tantalizing.
Daniel Fong, Grant Tilly, and Allison Lynch in The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde. Photo Fifth Wall Media
JAMES
Besides yourself, this production features three other well-known actors to Calgary audiences. There’s Daniel Fong, Allison Lynch, and Grant Tilly. They’re all playing multiple characters in this version of the story. What was the rehearsal process like? What sort of discussions amongst yourselves did you have about Jekyll and Hyde as you brought the story to life?
JOE
Well, our director Javier really challenged us, and we had some conversations about those moral questions that the play was bringing up. And it was a really free and interesting room to be in. I’ve never been in a rehearsal hall like this because Javier works so visually. He has these beautiful stage pictures in his head that he’s putting together. And he sees all these design elements and the four of us are kind of like in this playground made of that but we’re not necessarily seeing all of the elements as he’s seeing them. So, we were able to play and extend in a way that you don’t get to do in a lot of plays.
And I think you see that in a lot of the characters. I think Grant, Allison, and Daniel have transformations as actors on stage as profound as the Jekyll and Hyde transformations. And their characters are just so wonderfully crafted by each of them that it’s really an honour to share the stage with them. They’re people that I have worked with before or I have watched on stage and I have nothing but the utmost respect for them. So, I am just sitting here in full gratitude every day to be able to share the stage with them.
Joe Perry and Daniel Fong in The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde. Photo Fifth Wall Media
Grant Tilly and Joe Perry in The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde. Photo Fifth Wall Media
Grant Tilly, Allison Lynch, Joe Perry and Daniel Fong The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde. Photo Fifth Wall Media
Daniel Fong and Joe Perry in The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde. Photo Fifth Wall Media
Joe Perry in The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde. Photo Fifth Wall Media
Allison Lynch and Joe Perry in The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde. Photo Fifth Wall Media
Joe Perry and Daniel Fong in The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde. Photo Fifth Wall Media
JAMES
You mentioned that Javier uses a lot of physicality. And the play contains theatrical moments – moments that stick with you – and it’s exciting to see a production embrace that. How did some of those key moments evolve?
JOE
There’s a fight in the play that Javier had seen in his head and we kind of choreographed that together. He knew when he wanted it to go in slow motion and when he wanted it to be an extended, brutal, very theatrical sort of fight sequence. So that was sort of starting from the design first and then putting the movements into what he wanted to do.
But then with something like the first transformation from Jekyll to Hyde, he gave me a framework of where the lights would be and then he let me sort of free flow into it and he’d say, “More. You can go more.”
My favourite bit as an actor and something that I haven’t had the opportunity to do since theatre school is the final shattering of Hyde where it gets really expressionistic in the physicality. That was another bit where Javier told me to, “Just surrender to the physicality. This is not a moment of realism. This is a moment of extension. This is a shattering of the psyche and just surrender to it.”
And being able to do that as an actor is cathartic because you get to extend beyond what you would see in a naturalistic play, or what you would be able to experience in a naturalistic play. So that catharsis was really fun. And Javi had real specific ideas of what these characters would look like and then when he put them over into our hands he was really open to seeing where we were going with them and there was a real give and take and support.
JAMES
How is it to be back on stage and in particular the Vertigo Stage?
JOE
Honestly, it’s just an absolute joy. I was lucky enough to do The Extractionist by Michaela Jeffery here last year. That was the first play I’d done in four years. I mean, it’s my lifeblood. I missed it. I’ve missed it through the pandemic. Stepping away from the stage for that long was never the intention. And the Vertigo audiences are generous and committed. And it’s just a pleasure being able to play these characters on stage. I can’t even really begin to express my gratitude.
JAMES
Jekyll and Hyde are pretty iconic characters in the Western Cannon. They’re pretty well known and played by all sorts of actors in all sorts of adaptions including Spencer Tracey and Lon Chaney during the silent movie era.
JOE
That was one of the first ones I watched.
JAMES
What did you think?
JOE
It was great. Interesting and totally different themes.
JAMES
Yeah, totally. And that’s the neat thing. Do you think maybe part of what makes something a classic is its ability to be flexible in its interpretation?
JOE
Yes. The short answer is yes. The long answer is that this narrative is in almost everything that we watch. It’s Fight Club. It’s The Hulk. Jekyll and Hyde is in almost every movie. It’s in almost every play. Everybody knows Jekyll and Hyde on the macro scale. They know – take a potion and become someone else. It’s The Nutty Professor. And you can explore so many different themes. Nick Lane’s adaptation explores some very specific experiences in his life. Javier’s interpretation of Nick’s adaptation is Javier exploring his own things. And then my acting of Jekyll and Hyde is exploring my own thing. It’s just such a wonderful and rich conduit to explore the human condition because essentially, it’s about the duality of man, which I think is a pretty age-old question in philosophy and art.
Allison Lynch in The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde. Photo Fifth Wall Media
JAMES
There’s a female character Eleanor Lanyon who is new to the story in this adaptation and she seems to have a dual nature in many ways too.
JOE
Yeah, she’s a rich and complex character as well. And the way that Allison portrays Eleanor is super rich and complex. She’s dealing with more than just the potion and the science. She’s dealing with the constraints of a marriage that isn’t fulfilling. She’s dealing with the constraints of the time in society. And this is totally just my own look at that character. But I think she is really struggling with so many different constraints that the men in the play aren’t. We’re doing things for our hubris and honour. She’s doing things for her freedom and her autonomy.
JAMES
So, you got to play Jekyll and Hyde and there are other iconic characters like Hamlet, Poirot, and Sherlock Holmes in the Western canon. Are there other characters – well-known or not – that hold a particular fascination for you that you would like to play?
JOE
I mean, Hamlet is an easy answer. But if we’re going with Shakespeare Prince Hal has had a special part in my heart for a long time. Just an interesting character to me. And I’ve always wanted to do Sam Shepard’s True West with my brother Stafford. But to be honest my passion lies in playing new characters. I love new work. I love working on new plays. I love incepting new characters.
JAMES
What is it that fascinates you about the creation of new work?
JOE
It’s alive. Reprising old work is alive too. You can always look at something through a new lens. But having the ability to take new interesting voices from our communities that are speaking about current contexts and being able to explore that in a way where it’s not going up against an existing benchmark that’s already there or trying to contextualize something from another time into this time I find really exciting. I think there are so many unique interesting Canadian – Calgarian – Albertan voices. And every time I see these new works at any festival or on the larger stages I find it thrilling. Workshopping or acting in a new play in any sort of capacity or a new movie is my passion for sure.
JAMES
That’s where your heart lies, does it?
JOE
Part of it. But it’s always fun to go and see iconic characters. Everybody knows Jekyll and Hyde or Hamlet and the question is how can I authentically bring myself to this role? How can I make it something that’s current and something that’s interesting and something that says something that nobody else could have because so many people have said their own thing with it already? So that’s been a lovely challenge and something I always welcome. And I’m really proud of the work, and I’m really proud of the room, and I’m really proud of all of the people that are involved in this production.
***
VERTIGO THEATRE presents
The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde By Robert Louis Stevenson. Adapted by Nick Lane Four actors bring Robert Louis Stevenson’s gothic horror to life.
The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde features Joe Perry as Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde, Daniel Fong as Hastings Lanyon, Allison Lynch as Eleanor Lanyon, and Grant Tilly as Gabriel Utterson with Bernardo Pacheco and Tiffany Thomas as Understudies.
The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde is written by Robert Louis Stevenson and adapted by Nick Lane. Directed by Javier Vilalta, Set Design by Lauren Acheson, Costume Design by Ralamy Kneeshaw, Lighting Design by John Webber, Sound Design, Composition and Musical Direction by Kristin Eveleigh, Dialect Coaching by Laurann Brown, Fight & Intimacy Direction by Brianna Johnston, Stage Management by Laurel Oneil, Ashley Rees and Caaryn Sadoway.
Nathan Schmidt as W.O. Mitchell in the Rosebud Theatre production of Magic Lies: An Evening with W.O. Mitchell.
Magic Lies: An Evening with W.O. Mitchell is a joyful, fun, and feel-good night at the theatre all brought to life on the Rosebud Theatre’s Opera House stage in a brilliant performance by Nathan Schmidt.
Based on the works of W.O. Mitchell and penned by his son and daughter-in-law, Orm Mitchell and his wife Barbara, the play weaves together an entertaining and insightful script that travels between Mitchell’s fiction and the story of his life.
Mitchell was a writer, performer, and teacher who is best known for his 1947 novel Who Has Seen the Wind. The novel beautifully captures small-town life and the world as seen through the eyes of a young Brian O’Connal growing up on the Saskatchewan prairie. Mitchell is also known for his Jake and the Kid stories which were popular radio plays during the 1950s. No stranger to the stage himself W.O. Mitchell was a storyteller who performed his one-man shows across Canada and penned several plays for the stage including The Kite, The Devil’s Instrument, and The Black Bonspiel of Wullie MacCrimmon.
I contacted Nathan Schmidt to talk with him about the production and the challenges of performing a one-man show. You can read that interview by following the link above. I also spoke with Orm Mitchell to talk with him about his father’s work and the journey Magic Lies: An Evening with W.O. Mitchell took to reach the stage.
JAMES HUTCHISON
Orm, every literary work takes a journey from idea to finished work. Tell me a little bit about the journey that Magic Lies: An Evening with W.O. Mitchell took to reach the stage.
ORM MITCHELL
Well, it’s a journey that took close to twenty-six years. My father had prostate cancer so his last three or four years were not pleasant. He was in a hospital bed in the family room on the first floor of the house in Calgary and he was withdrawing more and more. And Barb and I wanted to keep him engaged. So, we suggested, why don’t you do a collection of your performance pieces that you’ve done over the years in your one-man shows? And he loved the idea. So that came together in a book called An Evening with W. O. Mitchell.
And as soon as that came out, two people came to us who wanted to use that book and turn some of the pieces into a one-man stage show, but Eric Peterson who they wanted to do the piece said he felt uneasy about doing this while a living author is still around and especially an author who has really put his distinctive stamp on the pieces.
There were other people who came to us over the years, and we were always in the role of acting as script consultants. And it never really got off the ground. So about 2008, Barb and I decided we’re going to write this ourselves. We did a really thorough rewrite and we sent it out to Theater Calgary and a few other places, but no one bit. So, we put it in a drawer and forgot about it.
Then during COVID, we realized that theatres were going through a very rough time. They couldn’t have an audience. There was no money coming in. And we’ve been really fond of Rosebud Theatre because they’ve produced W.O. Mitchell’s plays. They did Jake and the Kid, and they did The Kite twice, and we’d heard how wonderful Nathan Schmidt was playing Daddy Sherry in The Kite.
And so, I wrote to Morris Ertman the artistic director of Rosebud and said, “Look, Barb and I were thinking of making a donation to you guys because we know all theatres are struggling and we came up with what might be a better idea. Why don’t you do this one-man show and use Nathan Schmidt because we hear he’s been wonderful. And it’s inexpensive. It’s one person. You can stream it. And you might be able to get some income from streaming it during the COVID years.”
And I never heard back from Morris until about a year ago, July. And he said, “Orm, could you send me that script? I seem to have lost it.” And so, I sent it to him, and we saw him last November and he said, “I have decided to do this show and to use Nathan Schmidt.” It was close to twenty-six years from when the idea first came up to finally getting it on the stage.
Nathan Schmidt as W.O. Mitchell in the Rosebud Theatre production of Magic Lies: An Evening with W.O. Mitchell.
Nathan Schmidt as W.O. Mitchell in the Rosebud Theatre production of Magic Lies: An Evening with W.O. Mitchell.
Nathan Schmidt as W.O. Mitchell in the Rosebud Theatre production of Magic Lies: An Evening with W.O. Mitchell.
Nathan Schmidt as W.O. Mitchell in the Rosebud Theatre production of Magic Lies: An Evening with W.O. Mitchell.
Nathan Schmidt as W.O. Mitchell in the Rosebud Theatre production of Magic Lies: An Evening with W.O. Mitchell.
JAMES
You call the play Magic Lies: An Evening with W.O. Mitchell and I’m curious about the choice of title. Why did you choose Magic Lies? What’s the significance behind that?
ORM
That’s one of his favourite phrases. And he always used to say when people asked him about his creative process and his stories that every bit is the truth. What he meant by that was that he was a very observant watcher of the world, and he would pick up bits and pieces of people or details of landscape.
And I remember he used to tell his writers in his writing groups that you have to draw on your own autobiographical experience and find images, bits and pieces of sensuous detail, and you have to appeal to your reader’s sense of smell, taste, and touch. You’ve got to make them see something that you are describing. You’ve got to make your reader smell what it is that you are describing. All of those sensuous details that he collects and puts together to form and create that illusion of reality draw the reader into the story. So, every bit is the truth, but the whole thing is a lie. A magic lie. It’s a magic lie because it’s the catalyst that helps a reader explore consciously and unconsciously various universal human truths.
Morris Ertman and Orm Mitchell Opening Weekend Talk Back of Magic Lies: An Evening with W.O. Mitchell
W.O. Mitchell with Orm Mitchell at Trent University – Honorary Degree – 1985
W.O. Mitchell and Merna at Mabel Lake Cottage 1984
Mitchell Family Vacation
W.O. Mitchell reading at Trent University
Orm and Barb Mitchell celebrating the publication of their W.O. biography with his mother’s favourite champagne, Piper Heidsieck’s.
Orm and Barb Mitchell at Chapters Book Signing
Orm Mitchell fishing the Highwood River in 2018
Barbara and Orm Mitchell
Barbara and Orm Mitchell
W.O. Mitchell
JAMES
What do you think your father’s reactions and musings would be if he was able to see himself portrayed on stage?
ORM
My father was a master at timing, and he really admired an actor who had that sense of timing. You know someone who pauses in the right places and lets the audience into the story with those pauses. He was once told by someone when he was doing an acting role, “Bill, you’re overdoing it. It’s like an orange. Don’t squeeze all the juice out of the orange. Leave some there for the audience.” It’s a lovely metaphor for an actor who knows not to overdo it. And Nathan was just so good at that, and my father would have admired that.
JAMES
It takes a lot of discipline to put in the pause.
ORM
It’s a wonderful storytelling technique. And Nathan did this beautifully. In the story in which the boys blow up Melvin’s Grandpa in the back house when the dynamite goes off Nathan as W. O. stops and looks at the audience and takes out his snuffbox and he takes a piece of snuff and the audience is hanging there. Okay, the dynamite has gone off. The old man is in the back house. What happens next? And it is a lovely long pause, and then Nathan as W.O. looks at the audience and says, “Let me tell you something about dynamite.” And the audience just loved it.
The other thing my father would have admired was Nathan the actor has to make the role his own. He can’t just mimic my father. He uses bits and pieces of W.O. but at the same time the storytelling if it’s going to be effective – if it’s really going to zing with the audience – Nathan has to make it his own. By opening night he had made it his own and as the show goes on that role will more and more become his, and I think my father would have recognized that and would have admired that very much.
75th Anniversary Edition of Who Has Seen the Wind by W.O. Mitchell. Illustrated by William Kurelek. Available from Freehand Books.
JAMES
Let’s talk a little bit about Who Has Seen the Wind your father’s best-known work. It was published in 1947 and was an immediate success. And at the time the Montreal Gazette said, “When a star is born in any field of Canadian fiction it is an exciting event…Here in this deeply moving story of a Western Canadian boy, his folk and his country, emerges a writer whose insight, humanity and technical skill have given the simple elements of birth and death, of the inconspicuous lives of common man etched against the bleak western landscape, the imprint of significance and value.” Why do you think this book and this story resonate so deeply with its readers?
ORM
Here you have a book that is set in the prairies during the dirty thirties. It’s very specific. One of the things that critics in Canada used to say was, “Who cares about Canada? Who cares about a story where Bill and Molly meet in Winnipeg and fall in love?” W.O. was one of the first, if not the first writer, to put the Saskatchewan Prairie and the Alberta foothills on the literary map.
But then the corollary to that is you want people whether they are in London England, or Australia, or China or wherever they are to read that story, and you want that story to come alive for them. It’s what Alistair MacLeod used to say, “When you write your stories about a specific place and characters you want to make them travel.” I love that line. You want to make them travel. Who Has Seen the Wind sure as hell travelled. It has been translated into Chinese. And it has been translated into South Korean. It has sold over a million copies in Canada, and I think it will continue to travel.
One of the reasons why I think it travelled is that my father was wonderful in understanding the child’s world. He was really good with kids, and he managed in Who Has Seen the Wind to get inside the head of a kid in a way that has rarely been done. He manages to dramatize how Brian a four – five – six – seven – up to eleven-year-old looks at the world – and that’s universal. He managed to create characters and in particular Brian looking at the world in a way that resonates with readers all over the world.
Saint Sammy and Brian: Saint Sammy calling down the wrath of the Lord to smite Bent Candy’s new red barn. Illustration by William Kurelek from the 75th Anniversary Edition of Who Has Seen the Wind. Available from Freehand Books.
JAMES
So, I got the 75th-anniversary edition of Who Has Seen the Wind out of the Calgary library and it’s a very beautiful book. It came out last year. Has beautiful illustrations. The typeset. The cover. The paper that you use. It’s really just a work of art. And I came across a passage early in the book where he’s describing Brian lying in his bed trying to fall asleep.
“For a long time he had lain listening to the night noises that stole out of the dark to him. Distant he had heard the sound of grown up voices casual in the silence, welling up to almost spilling over, then subsiding. The cuckoo clock had poked the stillness nine times; the house cracked its knuckles, the night wind stirring through the leaves of the poplar just outside his room on the third floor strengthening in its intensity until it was wild at his screen.”
And that’s just beautiful and that reminded me of my own childhood and being in bed listening to the sounds of the house before falling asleep, and I know this is probably an impossible task, but do you have a favourite passage? Is there a passage you could select from your father’s writing that is for you perfect?
ORM
There are so many. I was thinking about Who Has Seen the Wind and the last three pages of Who Has Seen the Wind – is a wonderful prose poem. And in fact, when he was writing that he had his Bible open at Ecclesiastes and he was trying to catch the rhythms and pauses and repetitions of Ecclesiastics. It’s a very significant passage for me because I can remember standing in the High River Cemetery when we buried my father and that was the passage that I read from as part of our family ceremony.
But there’s one passage from How I Spent My Summer Holidays which is kind of a companion novel to Who Has Seen the Wind. You can imagine Brian, now grown up and going into adolescence. How I Spent My Summer Holidays at the human level is a much darker book than Who Has Seen the Wind. But there’s a scene right at the beginning where Hugh the narrator, who’s in his 70s, has gone back to his prairie town roots and he says,
“As I walked from Government Road toward the Little Souris, the wind and the grasshoppers and the very smell of the prairie itself – grass cured under the August Sun, with the subtle menthol of sage – worked nostalgic magic on me. These were the same bannering gophers suddenly stopping up into tent-pegs, the same stilting killdeer dragging her wing ahead of me to lure me away from her young; this was the same sun fierce on my vulnerable and mortal head. Now and as a child I walked out here to ultimate emptiness, and gazed to no sight destination at all. Here was the melodramatic part of the earth’s skin that had stained me during my litmus years, fixing my inner and outer perspective, dictating the terms of the fragile identity contract I would have with my self for the rest of my life.”
And I just love that prose that is so rich in detail. And my sense of the three most significant novels that he wrote are Who Has Seen the Wind his first novel, The Vanishing Point, and How I Spent My Summer Holidays. Those are books that will last, I think.
W.O. Mitchell
JAMES
I know it’s hard to sum up the life of a man in a short interview, after all, you and Barb have written a two-volume biography about your father. But how would you describe your father, the writer, the public person? And then how would you describe W.O. Mitchell, the man – your father?
ORM
The main thing he wanted to write was a story set in the real world and to create characters that interact in a very realistic way in order to explore larger human truths. But he wasn’t just a writer who typed stories that would appear in print. He also was an oral storyteller, and he gave his one-man shows – and he always used to call them one-man shows – because he didn’t give the usual literary readings where someone is introduced and then he reads a passage and takes questions from the audience. He gave one-man shows where he went on stage and he performed. And even something like his Jake and the Kid series on CBC – those are oral narratives. He really drew on the oral storytelling traditions of Western Canada.
Hugh, Willa, and Orm along with their mother Merna, Demi Tasse their minature poodle, and Beau their Chesapeake Bay Retriever listen to W.O. tell a story. High River 1956
And I suppose that’s one of the reasons why both Barb and I have this feeling – not an obligation – but this feeling that we want to continue that legacy of my father’s writing, but also both Barb and I were very moved on opening night because we felt we had achieved the goal of continuing his legacy as a storyteller on the stage as well.
As a private person, as a father, he really knew the child’s world. Not only did he know how to write about children, but he also knew how to react with them, and how to interact with them. And my brother Hugh and my sister Willa and I were blessed with a father who was sympathetic and who knew that child’s world, and he played with us, and he was really a wonderful parent to have and to grow up with.
Nathan Schmidt as W.O. Mitchell in the Rosebud Theatre production of Magic Lies: An Evening with W.O. Mitchell.
Magic Lies: An Evening with W.O. Mitchell is a joyful, fun, and feel-good night at the theatre all brought to life on the Rosebud Theatre’s Opera House stage in a brilliant performance by Nathan Schmidt.
Based on the works of W.O. Mitchell and penned by his son and daughter-in-law, Orm and Barbara Mitchell, the play weaves together an entertaining and insightful script that travels between Mitchell’s fiction and the story of his life.
Mitchell was a writer, performer, and teacher who is best known for his 1947 novel Who Has Seen the Wind. The novel beautifully captures small-town life and the world as seen through the eyes of a young Brian O’Connal growing up on the Saskatchewan prairie. Mitchell is also known for his Jake and the Kid stories which were popular radio plays during the 1950s. No stranger to the stage himself W.O. Mitchell was a storyteller who performed his one-man shows across Canada and penned several plays for the stage including The Kite, The Devil’s Instrument, and The Black Bonspiel of Wullie MacCrimmon.
I contacted Orm Mitchell to talk with him about his father’s work and the journey Magic Lies: An Evening with W.O. Mitchell took to reach the stage. You can read that interview by following the link above. I also spoke with Nathan Schmidt to talk with him about the production and the challenges of performing a one-man show.
JAMES HUTCHISON
What was your reaction when you first read the script and knew you were going to be playing W.O. Mitchell?
NATHAN SCHMIDT
I’ve done a couple of W.O. Mitchell shows. I’ve been in Jake and the Kid, and I’ve done The Kite twice, so lots about the script felt familiar, and I had experienced W.O.’s writing. So, I knew that he was funny, but the scarier thing was I thought, “Oh, man, I’ve got to play this real person who people know.” Whereas Daddy Sherry or Jake – those are characters. Those live in the imagination. It’s a different thing when somebody lives in the real world. And Morris Ertman our Artistic Director would say “When we open Magic Lies: An Evening with W.O. Mitchell all the family is going to come and watch the show.” And I was like, “Oh, my gosh. I’m going to have to play the father or the grandparent of these people in the audience.” So that was the most intimidating thing.
Morris Ertman and Orm Mitchell Opening Weekend Talk Back of Magic Lies: An Evening with W.O. Mitchell
Barbara and Orm Mitchell
Orm and Barbara Mitchell at Chapters Book Signing
75th Anniversary Edition of Who Has Seen the Wind by W.O. Mitchell. Illustrated by William Kurelek. Available from Freehand Books.
W.O. Mitchell
JAMES
Even a one-man show needs a director. For this show, it was Karen Johnson-Diamond. How did the two of you work on the play? What was that process like?
NATHAN
As an actor, Karen has done a number of W.O. Mitchell plays. I think she had been in Who Has Seen the Wind and Jake the Kid and she had a love of W.O. Mitchell as well. So, she came in with a lot of love for the stories and a lot of knowledge about W.O. Mitchell. But she’s also just a wonderfully comedic actor and performer, and so her sense of comedy and her sense of how this thing would play was really just spot on. And all of the direction that she offered to me was really helpful to clarify the joke and to clarify how the show moves forward.
What she really loved about the structure of the play is how it follows him through his life from like six to seven when he loses his father – to ten to eleven – to high school – all the way through to Daddy Sherry and misses a bit of the middle, because as W.O. Mitchell says in the story – he’s kind of focused on the first part of life and the end part of life. Those are the concentrated bits that it seemed his imagination was drawn to.
So, we would do a lot of work with linking. Linking how this story moved to this story and then to this story. And W.O Mitchell had a way of making it feel like it was all sort of off the cuff, but in the end, it was all very planned, and he was coming back to stuff he’d set up earlier and he had really worked out how the punchlines worked and how the ideas and stories came around. So, we did a lot of work like that to try and get into the head of the writer and the storyteller. It was a great process. She was wonderful.
The Kite – Rosebud Theatre – 2019
The Sunset Limited – Rosebud Theatre – 2016
Freud’s Last Session – Rosebud Theatre – 2014
Doubt, A Parable – Rosebud Theatre – 2014
Fiddler on the Roof – Rosebud Theatre – 2008
Man of La Mancha – Rosebud Theatre – 2009
The Spitfire Grill – Rosebud Theatre – 2017
A Christmas Carol – Rosebud Theatre – 2020 & 2021
The Diary of Adam & Eve – Rosebud Theatre – 2011
Oliver! – Rosebud Theatre – 2010
Damien – Rosebud Theatre – 2018
The Drawer Boy – Rosebud Theatre – 2006
May & Joe – Rosebud Theatre – 2011
The Secret Garden – Rosebud Theatre – 2010
Jake and the Kid: Prairie Seasons – Rosebud Theatre – 2011
Underneath the Lintel – Rosebud Theatre Production – 2013
The Kite – Rosebud Theatre – 2005
The Lion, The Witch And the Wardrobe – Rosebud Theatre – 2014
An Inspector Calls – Rosebud Theatre – 2016
Stones In His Pockets – Rosebud Theatre – 2022
The Trip to Bountiful – Rosebud Theatre – 2023
Cotton Patch Gospell – Rosebud Theatre – 2013
It’s a Wonderful Life: The Radio Play – Rosebud Theatre – 2013
Nathan Schmidt as W.O. Mitchell in the Rosebud Theatre production of Magic Lies: An Evening with W.O. Mitchell.
JAMES
This is your 50th performance on the Rosebud stage and so I’m wondering when you look back on all the parts you’ve played do some of those characters have a lasting influence on you in any way?
NATHAN
Yeah, there’s a couple that really stick – that I learned a lot about myself from and sometimes that’s uncomfortable. I was in Doubt by John Patrick Shanley and that was a really uncomfortable play for me to be in. It taught me a lot about who I am when I’m helpless and so those things kind of stick. The character teaches you something about who you really are because your instincts as a person are either in conflict with the character or line up with the character in ways that are surprising. That was a big one. I did a Cormac McCarthy play called The Sunset Limited and that was also another hard one.
As W.O. Mitchell says, those characters marked me. And I think the thing I love most is the relationship that characters create with the audience. One of my favourite things I ever got to do was The Drawer Boy by Michael Healey. I was playing one of the farmers. In The Drawer Boy, this young kid comes to hang out at the farm and find out about these two old guys. It was an older character, and I was younger, and I was really worried because it didn’t feel real. I didn’t feel in it, and I was really up in my head about it and nervous, you know, that I was a fraud or I was going to fail, and then one of the things that actually cinched me into it was – I don’t remember how it came about – but maybe it was offered by Morris and he said, “Here’s a toothpick. Just chew on the toothpick for the whole show.”
And so, I would have these toothpicks in the show, and I just chewed on this toothpick the whole time, and it helped me feel like that cranky grumpy guy in that story. Well, you know, a bit later – after the run, I got a little blue index card in the mail and on it was glued a toothpick, and on the backside, this person had written, “We attended the show and your Morgan was like seeing my grandfather alive again, and he passed away in 80 whatever.” She was so clear that she had an experience of seeing her grandpa that day, and I was able to offer her unbeknownst to me an experience like that. And so, you know that play holds a special place for me too because of that story. It’s quite a lovely play.
W.O. Mitchell reading at Trent University
JAMES
W.O. Mitchell perfected the technique of appearing not to be performing. To be spontaneous and to appear as if he was telling the story for the first time. So, he’d draw his audience in through deliberate mistakes or confusion, he’d say, “Oh, did I tell you? Or I forgot to mention.” And in your performance, you totally capture that sense of spontaneous and unrehearsed storytelling. So much so that my son heard a couple of ladies leaving the theatre and they enjoyed the show, but they remarked that they were surprised that you seemed to lose your place and had to go back. Which means to them it was completely natural. So, to me you’re one of those actors who really achieves a feeling of reality in your performance no matter what part you’re playing. That’s a long speil just to ask, how do you do that?
NATHAN
Morris said this the other day and I think it’s true. I think when we get curious about people then we kind of fall in love with them. And I think it’s true of the characters we play, and I think in the rehearsal there is something about just falling in love with the reality of whoever they are and whatever drives them. You’ve heard it said that one of the actor’s adages is don’t judge the character even if you’re a villain. Villains are motivated by what they believe to be true or good or at least by what is in their best interests.
And I think the actor’s job overall – and W.O. Mitchell did this in spades too – is to collect people. To watch people and to observe what they do and why they do it without judgment and to allow them to steep into you and to become part of you and the energy of being them and how they participate in the world. It’s partly that and it’s partly just having fun. It’s just fun to try and make it as real as possible.
Saint Sammy and Brian: Saint Sammy calling down the wrath of the Lord to smite Bent Candy’s new red barn. Illustration by William Kurelek from the 75th Anniversary Edition of Who Has Seen the Wind. Available from Freehand Books.
JAMES
You know, it’s interesting that you mentioned fun, and I think W.O. Mitchell is able to capture the feeling of childhood and play and imagination and curiosity. What are your thoughts about the child within you in terms of that living in you as an actor?
NATHAN
I have three kids now and when I watch the four-year-old and two-year-old play for them every game is real. They just believe it. My little guy just thinks he’s the Flash. He thinks he’s the fastest thing going and so he’ll be like, “Watch this Dad.” And he will just run through and he’s like, “You didn’t even see me, did you.” And I remember as a kid wearing my North Star Velcro runners and those are the fastest shoes, and I can run so fast in my North Star shoes because they’ve got shooting stars on them and that makes my feet fast. And I believed it to be true.
Our adult logic brains know it’s not true, but it could be in your imagination. And the audience does the same thing. They all know they’re not seeing W.O. Mitchell. Karen said, “Nobody’s coming to see the actual W.O. Mitchell. They’re coming to have an experience of W.O. Mitchell and if we deliver it in a way that doesn’t give them any reason to doubt too much – then the audience will let their imagination see me as him.” And so, you know, I think our imagination is a remarkable and amazing gift, and I think as creatives we may access it a little bit more at times, but it’s there for everyone. They just have to access it.
JAMES
This is storytelling at its simplest and best. One actor. Minimal set. What is it like for you as a performer doing a one-man show? How do you create that connection with your audience?
NATHAN
I’ve done a number of one-person shows now and it gets to be a lonely room as opposed to having one or two other people or a group of actors to hang out with. It can be lonely in that way, but the audience really becomes the best friend of the show. And especially in something like this where it’s such a direct address. The whole point of the show is the relationship of the storyteller to the audience. At the end of the play, W.O. says that this is the thing – the energy of a live audience responding to a story – that’s where it’s at.
And for me, that is where it’s at. I love that relationship. I’m always curious about it and excited about it. Sometimes puzzled by it, you know, sometimes it lands really well, and people just explode with laughter and sometimes they don’t, and you can’t put together all of why that is, but people get to be who they are and so it’s a really lovely sort of bond that I’ve come to love about performing. And that’s the amazing thing about storytelling in theatre. And at the end of the play he says,
“You know…the energy of death lies behind everything I’ve written—it’s death and solitude that justify story telling. Telling stories draws us human aliens together in the mortal family, uniting us against the heart of darkness, defending us against the terror of being human. Writing’s a lonely act—like playing a dart game with the lights out. You have no idea whether your darts are coming anywhere near the bull’s-eye. But this (open handed gesture to audience)…this dilutes the darkness, gives me what all stage performers love—that immediate thrust of a live audience responding to story magic. (Looking out to audience, grins). We were flying tonight!”
Bronwyn Steinberg Artistic Director of Lunchbox Theatre – Photo by David Leyes
Bronwyn Steinberg the Artistic Director of Lunchbox Theatre is a passionate community builder focused on making theatre an inclusive gathering space where stories are shared that celebrate the diversity of human experience.
“The thing is humans are storytellers and stories are the best way I know to help people understand different people’s perspectives, and if you do understand different perspectives that will – at least in my dreams and in my hopes – help lead to more equity and egalitarian workings in the world and something that is less dominated by money and power.”
I sat down with Bronwyn a few weeks ago to talk with her about Bertolt Brecht, the exciting new season at Lunchbox, and her passion for theatre.
JAMES HUTCHISON
Since you were six years of age, you’ve been sitting in on rehearsals because your mother was a drama teacher at the time and she’s now a professor at the University of Calgary. Tell me a little bit about growing up in the rehearsal hall, and how you think that relates to your life’s path.
BRONWYN STEINBERG
Some of my earliest memories are of going with my mom to the rehearsal hall, and I remember she was directing Grease, the musical. And she was very serious about her rehearsal hall. The kids had to be in character all the time. Even if they weren’t on stage. And I just thought it was fun. I just thought it was normal that you grew up and you did plays. And it wasn’t just seeing my mom in rehearsal. She also took me to plays my whole life, and as soon as I had opportunities to do after-school plays I always did them, and so the magic of theatre was always there, and I got to see so many shows, and I just always knew it was something I wanted to do.
The Great Canadian Theatre Company’s 2018 production of Drowning Girls. Directed by Bronwyn Steinberg.
The Great Canadian Theatre Company’s 2018 production of Drowning Girls. Directed by Bronwyn Steinberg.
Bronwyn Steinberg embarking on a life in the theatre.
Bronwyn Steinberg rehearsing Pirate Jenny’s Circus for the 2009 Ottawa Fringe. Devised creation based on the works of Bertolt Brecht.
Bronwyn Steinberg rehearsing Pirate Jenny’s Circus for the 2009 Ottawa Fringe. Devised creation based on the works of Bertolt Brecht.
Breath of Kings: Rebellion at Stratford. Directed by Weyni Mengesha with Assistant Director Bronwyn Steinberg
JAMES
Would you attribute any of your style of directing to having spent those early years watching your mother direct?
BRONWYN
I don’t know if I can pinpoint anything. I have certainly learned a lot from my mom both from just watching the way that she works and the way she is in the world and the way she is as my mom because she’s an incredibly powerful personality and super smart and very strong. I’ve learned how to step into a leadership role when needed, but also I’ve learned how to let someone else lead. And I think that serves me as a director. So, when I need to really take charge in the room I can, but I’m also really good at stepping back and empowering other folks to also have leadership within the space.
JAMES
I was doing some research and I came across a couple of past interviews where you mentioned you studied Bertolt Brecht.1 Brecht was an innovative voice in the theatre, and he was very unconventional in his thinking and approach. He believed theatre should challenge an audience and their view of the world not simply be entertainment. So, what is it about Brecht’s approach to theatre that you find exciting, and what influence has it had on your own work?
BRONWYN
It comes back to my folks and my background and who I am in the world, thanks to my family. My parents Shirley and Joe were always very politically engaged and very much on the left end of the spectrum. And their approach to education was deeply influenced by Paulo Freire2 and critical pedagogy. I am not a Freire scholar, nor would I call myself a Brecht scholar either but what’s interesting is both Freire and Brecht are coming out of similar times even though they are in very different places in the world. They’re coming out of a need to speak against powerful regimes and speak up for the common person. And there was always a feeling observing my parents growing up that felt like whatever I did, whether it was in theatre or otherwise, I had to have a sense of social justice and doing good in the world, and speaking up for people or finding a way to help empower people whose voices haven’t been heard.
And so, when I started learning about Brecht, I found he was one of those theatre creators who took a political philosophy that kind of inherently made sense to me and figured out a way to play with it on stage in his practice. The thing is humans are storytellers and stories are the best way I know to help people understand different people’s perspectives, and if you do understand different perspectives that will – at least in my dreams and in my hopes – help lead to more equity and egalitarian workings in the world and something that is less dominated by money and power.
Lincoln Centre Theatre 2018 Directors Lab. Photograph Joan Marcus
JAMES
So, you’ve gotten experience early in your career at the Lincoln Center in New York and at the Stratford Festival here in Canada. I’m wondering how those particular experiences were a value to both your artistic practice and the development of your career.
BRONWYN
The Lincoln Center was an opportunity to be part of the Directors Lab, so it wasn’t part of their regular programming. I didn’t work on any shows but for three weeks in two summers, I got to be part of a seventy-person lab of people from all over the world talking about directing and engaging with ideas about why we make theatre and how we do it. There was about a third from the New York region and then another third from across the US and then the other third was from all over the world. And at Lincoln Center and at Stratford part of what was so important to my development, both as an artist and within the structure of my career was meeting people. It’s all about the people you meet and the different ideas that are sparked in random conversations over lunch or sitting under a tree or in the rehearsal hall.
It was really powerful for me to learn at Stratford that yes, I was surrounded by some of Canada’s most talented and experienced theatre artists, but they’re also humans and everybody making a play kind of does some of the same things. We all go into rehearsal and put a thing on stage, and we speak the same language even though our approaches are really different. But we’re all just trying to tell a good story and reach an audience and make it clear and make it compelling and make it entertaining and make it meaningful. And both of those experiences, I think, really helped me accept myself as an artist.
Stratford Langhamites – a group photo of participants from the Michael Langham Workshop for Classical Direction after a masterclass with Mary Zimmerman
JAMES
You lived in Ottawa for twelve years. You got your MFA there and you made it home and you became a vital part of the local arts community. In 2013, you formed Theater Artists Cooperative: the Independent Collective Series, which is known by its acronym TACTICS.
TACTICS was designed to give independent artists an opportunity to stage larger-scale works beyond the production limitations of things like the Fringe and to let artists have larger casts and more sophisticated design elements.
And now we’re ten years later; TACTICS has been a huge success. You’ve staged multiple shows. You have a main stage series as well as a number of play development opportunities and though you are no longer in Ottawa as the artistic producer, you are still on the board.
So big congratulations. You started something and not everything that people start succeeds, you succeeded, and it must have taken a lot of drive, determination, and long hours. What was the process like? How did you stay motivated? And what sort of future do you envision for the festival?
BRONWYN
I’m really delighted that I was able to create something that didn’t just end when I left, which is so often what happens to a passion project, and it doesn’t mean the passion project isn’t valuable. It just means that it’s hard to sustain. And so, I’m really glad to see that the Ottawa community has embraced TACTICS and felt like it’s really a necessary thing.
Back in the beginning, I was slow to incorporate the organization. Slow to bring on a board of directors and slow to try to switch from project funding to operating funding because one of the things I really wanted to be sure of was, does Ottawa even need this? Or does Bronwyn need this?
And it was clear that I felt I needed something. I knew I wanted to be an artistic director and I didn’t know how to get a company to take me seriously if I didn’t have any experience. So, I thought, “Well, I’ll create something and be the artistic director of it, and I’ll learn a bunch and that will be a great stepping stone in my career, and hopefully it will make a contribution to the community.” But I wanted to see what contribution it was making in the community before I tried to put all the things in place so that it could sustain a transition.
And it was always a labour of love and always a passion project and I don’t ever want to try to consider how many hours I put into it and what money I actually got paid out of it because there was a lot of unpaid labour as I was building it. That’s not necessarily a good model to start an organization, but that’s the world we live in. If you’re some sort of entrepreneur, you kind of have to build it and hope that they come and then pass it on to new leadership.
I’m so deeply proud of it, and I’m so excited about the new leadership and the growth that is continuing to happen there. Micah Jondel DeShazer is now the Artistic Director, and Lydia Talajic is the General Manager. They’re the staff and now they actually do get to invoice all the hours that they work and have a salary.
TACTICS 2019 – Swedish Furniture by Matt Hertendy
TACTICS 2017 – girls! girls! girls! by Greg MacArthur, produced by Cart Before the Horse
TACTICS 2019 – Albumen by Mishka Lavigne
TACTICS 2018 workshop of Mad Margaret adapted by Bronwyn Steinberg from Shakespeare’s history plays
TACTICS 2019 – The Omnibus Bill by Darrah Teitel, directed by Esther Jun. Behind the Scenes.
TACTICS 2017 – The Hottentot Venus Untold by Jacqui du Toit
JAMES
You did an interview a couple of years ago where you said, Lunchbox is the right job of all the artistic director jobs you’d applied for. You said, “It’s the best fit, but it is also the best timing.” So, what made it the best fit? Why was it the best timing? And now that you’ve been in the job for a couple of years, how is it working out?
BRONWYN
I love Ottawa, but it’s a smaller city and I was ready for new opportunities. So, the timing was really good because we had incorporated TACTICS and had already started to think about a succession plan. But it was also late 2020 and my independent artist career was kind of like staring into a terrifying void like so many of us because everything had been cancelled. And I thought, “Oh, my God. What am I even going to do?” And I felt like I’d won the lottery getting an actual salary and a job at a time when no one knew when theatres were going to open again.
And I also think everything kind of happens for a reason because I did end up at the right place. I think Lunchbox’s emphasis on new works and new Canadian works is really something that is just very beloved by me. With TACTICS I did a lot of new play development and a lot of working with emerging artists. And Lunchbox has quite a history of being a place where emerging artists get their first professional gig or where more established artists get to try something new and actors get to become directors and a lot of what I was doing at TACTICS was creating opportunities for folks to work on a scale they hadn’t before.
And so, it just felt like such a natural fit in those ways. And the programming over the years has kind of a tradition of it’s at lunchtime and you want to have a good time at the theatre. And as much as I talk about socially relevant and political and meaningful work, I still always want to have a good time at the theatre. And even if I am doing something that could have quite heavy themes, I want people to leave feeling uplifted, and as I looked at the history of Lunchbox shows I could see that type of programming. So artistically it felt like a really good fit as well.
Garret Smith and Barbara Gates Wilson in Cottagers and Indians at LBT. Photo Benjamin Laird.
Chris Enright, Trevor Schmidt and Jake Tcaczyk in Flora and Fawna Have Beaver Fever (and so does Fleurette!) at LBT. Photo Benjamin Laird.
Kim Kilpatrick and Ginger in Raising Stanley / Life with Tulia at LBT. Photo Benjamin Laird
Raising Stanley / Life with Tulia by Kim Kilpatrick, Karen Bailey and Bronwyn Steinberg at LBT. Photo Benjamin Laird.
Jameela McNeil and Christopher Clare in Heaven at LBT. Photo Benjamin Laird.
Emily Dallas, Valerie Pearson, Eric Wigston, Sepidar Yeganeh Farid in Home for the Holidays at LBT. Photo Benjamin Laird.
LBT Stage Two workshop of These Moments of Shine by Camille Pavlenko.
Tiffany Thomas and Anna Dalgleish in Countries Shaped Like Stars at LBT. Photo Benjamin Laird.
Maezy Reign and Robert Klein in Shark Bite at LBT. Photo Tim Nguyen.
Kit Benz, Ali DeRegt and Jamie Konchak in All I Want for Christmas at LBT. Photo Benjamin Laird.
Kit Benz, Ali DeRegt and Jamie Konchak in All I Want for Christmas by LBT. Photo Benjamin Laird.
Lunchbox Theatre 2023/24 Season Graphics by Maezy Reign
Lunchbox Theatre 2023/24 Season Grapics by Maezy Reign
Lunchbox Theatre 2023/24 Season Graphics by Maezy Reign
Lunchbox Theatre 2023/24 Season Graphics by Maezy Reign
JAMES
Well, then why don’t we talk about how your current season of plays feeds into that and reflects Lunchbox in the Calgary theatre community and maybe in the Canadian theatre community?
BRONWYN
I don’t usually think of programming around a theme, but as I look at these four pieces, I have realized that all four of them depict moments in people’s lives where another person really changes who they are and changes who they are in the world, which is I hope what theatre does for everyone.
In The Dark Lady there’s this imagined relationship between William Shakespeare and Emilia Bassano that if it happened, it actually transformed the world for all of us because it transformed Shakespearean literature. With Bells On is about this unlikely pair that gets stuck in an elevator together, and it totally opens each of their eyes to different experiences of the world. Kisapmata is a beautiful love story between a visitor to Canada and a Canadian resident who is part of her diaspora. And then The Ballad of Georges Boivin is about this guy who after his wife of fifty years dies decides to go on a road trip from Quebec to Vancouver with his friends to see if his first love is still in Vancouver. He’s not trying to get back together with her he just wants to know if someone who meant something to him fifty years ago is still there.
When I look at these four plays, they really go together in that theme while also being wildly different styles and different kinds of playwrights. Kisapmata is a new play by emerging Calgary artist Bianca Miranda, so it’s very local. With Bells On was developed at Lunchbox about ten or fifteen years ago by Darrin Hagen. The Ballad of Georges Boivin is a translation from Quebec playwright Martin Bellemare. And The Dark Lady by Jessica B. Hill just premiered this summer at Shakespeare in the Ruins in Winnipeg and at Shakespeare on the Saskatchewan in Saskatoon. So, this season is a neat mix of things from – right here, right now; right here, ten years ago; and from other places across the country.
JAMES
In a time of infinite entertainment, we have YouTube, TikTok streaming services like Netflix and Disney+. There are all sorts of amazing shows out there, Game of Thrones, Mad Men, Flea Bag, and The Good Place. There are interactive games – Red Dead Redemption, The Last of Us and The Last of Us crossed over and made an amazing mini-series. And you still find good old-fashioned radio, books, and music. So, where in this massive, modern, mix of art, storytelling, and entertainment do you think theatre fits. What does it offer that makes it unique or special?
BRONWYN
I think it offers what it always offered, which is a chance to be in community while you hear a story. And I think that all the amazing entertainment that is out there and the different media that is out there is really exciting. I love it. I consume all kinds of different things as a watcher and sometimes player but that doesn’t replace the need to actually share in the live theatrical experience. It’s similar to watching the game on TV or going to the game. Going to the concert or listening to the recording. Even going to the movies versus watching it at home on Netflix. Humans are social and we understand something differently when we do it with other people.
This amazing thing always happens when the first audience arrives for a show. Suddenly as a director I see the play differently. The whole time I have been rehearsing the show I’m trying to think what will audiences not understand? What will they find funny. And all that stuff? And then when I have someone sitting next to me, and they don’t have to do anything. They don’t have to laugh. They don’t have to ask me a question. They don’t have to give me feedback. The fact of them sitting there while we watch the same thing together in the room – boom – makes me see it differently. The way we observe something is different in company.
And I think that theatre will always have an important place in our storytelling and in that human need for storytelling because of what it offers by doing it live. You feel it as an audience member and you certainly feel it as a performer or theatre maker and it’s like, okay, we have this moment together. We’re here. You’re watching me. I am watching you and we are sharing in this creation of this idea about this story or character. And it is something we do together.
Maezy Reign and Robert Klein in the Lunchbox Theatre Production of Shark Bite by Meredith Taylor-Parry, directed by Chantelle Han. Set and Costumes by Bianca Guimarães, Sound by Kathryn Smith, Lighting by Ajay Bodoni. Photograph by Tim Nguyen.
JAMES
I noticed when I was doing some research for this interview that back in 2012 you did a production of The Hobbit at a prison. The only reason I mentioned it is because some years ago, I had an adaptation of my version of A Christmas Carol produced at a prison down in the US and I wrote a blog post about it. What was it like to do that show?
BRONWYN
Getting to do that show in the prison was a really special experience. It really taught me a lot about how important what we do is and how transformative it can be for people. And I got to attend a really neat conference presentation about prison theatre at an international theatre conference and they do a lot of theatre in prison in Italy. And it was an Italian director talking about it and everything he presented was amazing to me, but also completely unsurprising after my experience. They have found that in their prisons before the theatre program it was 60% of people that would re-offend or something like that and with inmates that had gone through their theatre program the rate was 6% and it was like this wild reduction.3
There is something really powerful about being a part of something like a theatre experience. It takes a person completely out of their day-to-day in the prison and gets them to be part of serving a greater purpose, which is the story and offering it to someone else, which is the audience. And I think we don’t realize how important it is for people to feel valued in the world and that they matter, and theatre is such a simple way to do that and it’s incredibly powerful. And actually, A Christmas Carol is kind of a great parallel because I think so much of Scrooge’s journey parallels what the guys that I worked with in prison were learning about being a part of something bigger and being a part of society in a way that a lot of them were never told they could.
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To purchase individual tickets to any Lunchbox show or play passes for the season visit the Lunchbox Theatre Box Office online or call 403-221-3708.
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1Bertolt Brecht (10 February 1898 – 14 August 1956) was a German theatre practitioner, playwright, and poet. He developed the theory and practice of Epic Theatre. Epic Theatre proposes that a play should not cause the spectator to identify emotionally with the characters or action before him or her. Instead, theatre should provoke rational self-reflection and a critical view of the action on the stage. Brecht wanted audiences to have a critical perspective in order for them to recognize social injustice and exploitation and to be moved in order to go from the theatre and effect change in the outside world.
2Paulo Freire (19 September 1921 – 2 May 1997) was a Brazilian educator and philosopher who was a leading advocate of critical pedagogy. Critical pedagogy insists that issues of social justice and democracy are not distinct from acts of teaching and learning. The goal of critical pedagogy is emancipation from oppression through an awakening of the critical consciousness. When achieved, critical consciousness encourages individuals to effect change in their world through social critique and political action in order to self-actualize. His influential work, Pedagogy of the Oppressed, is considered one of the foundational texts of the critical pedagogy movement.
INTiP – International Network of Theatre in Prison The INTiP intends to support theatre projects for planning, relationship-building, debate and qualification in prison institutions around the world. INTiP presents itself as an instrument, a reference to the many operators of this growing field in the context of a phenomenon that originated internationally over 60 years ago.
The 1000 Monkeys Project featuring five Calgary playwrights is just one of the many shows you can see during the unrestricted, unexpected, unforgettable 17th Annual Calgary Fringe Festival running in Inglewood from Friday, August 4th to Saturday, August 12th.
Other shows include:
Mail Ordered by Shanice Stanislaus – a “Pick of the Fringe” at last year’s Vancouver Fringe Festival that has been described as “Wildly Funny” and “Delightfully Interactive.”
Date Night by the Sunflower Collective Theatre – an interactive, semi-improvised play about dating, caring, and mental illness in today’s world where audiences navigate the awkwardness and joy of second dates and the intimacy of telling someone who you really are behind the dating profile.
Underbelly by Ragmop Theatre – a one-woman surrealist physical comedy featuring monsters, dismemberment, shower opera, inconceivable truths, and a hot date.
For complete details about all the shows in this year’s festival and to purchase tickets for in-person shows or on-demand shows visit the Calgary Fringe Festival Website or drop by the Fringe Festival Box Office at Festival Hall and pick up a program. Regular tickets are just $20 bucks with several shows offering multiple pay-what-you-want performances.
My own ten-minute comedy Happy Birthday Theo about two old friends who have fallen on hard times and now live in a junk heap is a part of the 1000 Monkeys Project and is presented by the Alberta Playwrights’ Network. I contacted Trevor Rueger the Executive Director of APN by e-mail to ask him a few questions about the Fringe and what exactly the 1000 Monkeys Project is all about.
TREVOR RUEGER
The two previous years we partnered with the Calgary Fringe and invited playwrights to spend 24 continuous hours writing a piece for presentation at the end of the 24 hours. We housed, fed, and watered the playwrights at Festival Hall the first weekend of the Fringe. When the 24 hours were up, the writers would go home and sleep, while we would read and rehearse the plays and then present them to an audience that evening.
Because the Fringe is getting back to pre-COVID levels for the amount of work they present (which is a great thing), our presentation time was limited. So, this year we decided to model the 1000 Monkeys Project on an event we produce in Edmonton called EDMONten. We invited Calgary and area playwrights to submit complete 10-minute plays. We had 23 entries, and a jury selected the 5 works that are being presented at this year’s Festival. So, we are considering ourselves the best value for money at the Calgary Fringe – you’re going to get 5 plays for the price of 1.
JAMES HUTCHISON
I like the ten-minute format. In fact, I think you can cover a lot in ten minutes. What are the things you think make for a great ten-minute play and just how big a story can you tell in that time?
TREVOR
I love 10-minute plays, not just because I have a short attention span… (stops writing because he gets a Twitter notification) …sorry where was I? I love 10–minute plays because as a writer you have to get to the crux of the story immediately. You don’t have a lot of time to linger in exposition, specifically about the time and setting.
This means that as a writer you are kind of forced to create a situation that is immediately recognizable to an audience and is universal in its theme. You are also forced as a writer to make the action immediate. If Hamlet was a ten-minute play, you would have the ghost of Hamlet’s father show up and say he was murdered by Claudius. “Ghost: Revenge my untimely murder. / Hamlet: I’m on it pops!” The plays this year are a variety of big themes and events, and small snapshots of human interaction.
JAMES
So, tell me a little about the plays we’re going to see. Are they comedies? Dramas? Rants about corporate greed or diatribes about pineapple on pizza? Are they stories of love? Ambition? Hope? Despair? What are we going to see?
TREVOR
You’re going to see a beautiful mix of plays – an absurdist look at corporate culture, a drama about the restaurant industry, a Beckett-esque search for the meaning of life, a scene from a mysterious waiting room, and a memory play. Each play is wildly different from the next, but what makes them fantastic is the well-crafted characters in a variety of situations dealing with a myriad of crises.
JAMES
Alright, you can’t have a reading without actors. Who are some of the actors you’ve lined up for the show?
TREVOR
Casting a number of plays for one presentation always presents a challenge. We can’t afford to hire the perfect actor for each character. So we cast an ensemble of really talented character actors who are able to make big, strong, and quick choices. What we tell the audience before we start the presentation is that “not every character will be portrayed exactly as written in terms of age, race, or gender, so we ask you to use your imagination.”
In the cast, this year is Elinor Holt who was most recently seen in the Stage West production of 9 to 5: The Musical, for which she received a Betty Mitchell Award for Outstanding Performance, Lara Schmitz an incredibly talented actor and writer, Eric Wigston who audiences will have seen on stages all over the city, and myself reading stage directions and taking on a couple of roles.
JAMES
This is the 17th year for the Calgary Fringe. We have Fringe Festivals all across Canada including some big ones in Edmonton and Winnipeg. There are lots of festivals in the U.S. and of course the big one in Edinburgh. I’m curious about a couple of things. First, what do you think the Fringe offers artists and second, what do you think audiences get out of Fringe Festivals?
TREVOR
What the Fringe offers artists is an opportunity to create and present without limits. It provides an artist, or collective of artists an opportunity to experiment, develop, and test-drive their material in front of a live breathing audience. What audiences get are the fruits of those labours. The Fringe offers both the artist and the audience an opportunity to take risks. As an artist you might discover that your work has the opportunity for a bigger life after the Fringe, and for an audience you might be seeing the first version of a play that makes it big!
JAMES
I’ve seen some great shows at the Fringe including Six Guitars and Nashville Hurricane by Chase Padgett, God is a Scottish Drag Queen by Mike Delamont, and Clarence Darrow with Brian Jensen playing the legendary lawyer. What has been a great show or two you’ve seen at the Fringe and why and what has it been that has made them so memorable or inventive?
TREVOR
My very first Fringe (Edmonton) as an artist, in 1990 I saw a production of Macbeth by a company called English Theatre In A Suitcase – 5 actors, 90 minutes, 7-minute two-handed broadsword fight at the end. It blew my mind. The only thing that wasn’t created on the stage by the actors was the lighting. It was so simple and dynamic at the same time.
Two of the other memorable shows were made memorable by the fact that they were one-person shows by people who were not actors. They were people who had overcome something major in their lives and shared their very personal experiences. What made them both great was that what they shared was not for the benefit of their own personal healing, but was for the audience to examine themselves and their own situations and hardships. What makes a Fringe show great to me, is the same thing that makes theatre great – the sharing a story with an audience, not the indulging in a story for the artist’s ego.
Katharine Venour in the Rosebud Theatre Production of The Syringa Tree by Pamela Gien. Directed by Morris Ertman. Photo by Morris Ertman.
The stage lets us travel to other times and places and this summer Rosebud Theatre is taking audiences on a journey to South Africa during the time of Apartheid in Pamela Gien’s 2001 Obie Award-winning play The Syringa Tree. Apartheid was an institutionalized system of legalized racial segregation between South Africa’s white minority and nonwhite majority that existed from 1948 until the early 1990s.
Katharine Venour plays twenty-two different characters in a one-woman show that tells a story about two families – one white and one black – caught in the grips of a system where the colour of your skin determines your place and opportunities in South African society. The primary narrator of the story is Elizabeth the six-year-old white daughter of Isaac her Jewish father and Eugenie her Catholic mother. In the play her nanny Salamina secretly gives birth to a daughter she names Moliseng. Elizabeth’s family and Salamina’s family are forced to hide and protect Moliseng from the authorities and other members of the community. Although the story contains tragic events the play ultimately delivers a message of love and hope.
The Syringa Tree is a powerful story told on an intimate stage in a brilliantly directed production by Morris Ertman that mixes a simple set with sound and lights to create a world where Katharine Venour delivers a compelling and deeply moving performance. I contacted Katharine after seeing the show to ask her some questions about her approach to acting as well as questions about the play including how seeing the story through the eyes of a child impacts how the story is told.
JAMES HUTCHISON
What do we mean when we say that an actor’s job is to serve the story?
KATHARINE VENOUR
I think the story is the most important part of the theatre experience. The story is everything. And the actor’s job is to speak the story, speak the words as truthfully and powerfully and clearly as possible and to bring that story to life for an audience.
Most professional actors go through a 4-year training program – either at a university or an acting school – to train their bodies, voices, hearts, and minds to become good instruments in the telling of story. As an actor, my goal is to be the best storyteller that I can be.
I believe that an actor is engaged in an act of service when she takes on a role. You are serving something bigger than you. Your job is to lift up and embody the words and character and vision that the playwright has created for you on the page. The playwright has woven a world, and as an actor I need to figure how I fit into the world and vision of the playwright.
Words are at the heart of the theatre and they can be the conveyors of truth and beauty. I want to speak those words in a truthful and compelling way for an audience, and that takes technique and imagination and inspiration. These are tools that an actor learns and hones in an acting program and throughout one’s career.
Many actors continue to take workshops with master teachers throughout their careers to continue to grow and improve as artists. It’s a life-long craft and process that requires humility and courage. For me, the best way I take it on is to know that it’s bigger than me. That makes the work meaningful.
Katharine Venour in the Rosebud Theatre Production of The Syringa Tree by Pamela Gien. Directed by Morris Ertman. Photo by Morris Ertman.
JAMES
How much do you think an actor’s performance is based on analysis and reason and how much do you think is based on instinct? Or maybe how do those two things mix when you’re working on a part?
KATHARINE
Yes, this is a great question. I think critical analytical skills in reading a play as well as instinct and gut response are all valuable and crucial for me as an actor.
During my acting training at the University of Calgary, acting students were required to take courses on theatre history where we read three plays a week and analyzed them. I think this was great for me as an actor – and also coincided with my love for literature which I continued in my graduate literature studies at UBC – so I loved it.
I think learning about themes, imagery, character relationships, conflict and the overall structure of a play – as varied as that can be – is so helpful to me as an actor and fires up my imagination and helps me to understand the vision of a playwright and then the director and how I can bring the character I play to life.
But instinct and that gut reaction and the way a play calls to you as an actor are also powerful tools for the actor. For me, I have to feel a heart connection to a story. And I don’t really know how to explain that except that I feel like I want to be part of the story. I want to be a part of speaking it into the world because it is meaningful to me and I connect emotionally or spiritually to it. And in the acting moment on stage, you learn as an actor how to follow your instincts for playing a scene or a moment. For me, the physicality of the character and the voice are significant places where I start and where I really live as an actor onstage.
I think this is why I’m so drawn to and fascinated by athletes. I think acting is about action – doing – and figuring how the body communicates. You want to embody a character and that requires attention and figuring out what the physical life is for the character moment by moment. Once you figure that out, acting is very, very liberating and free.
Katharine Venour in the Rosebud Theatre Production of The Syringa Tree by Pamela Gien. Directed by Morris Ertman. Photo by Morris Ertman.
JAMES
Let’s talk a little bit about the play you’re currently in – The Syringa Tree. The play starts in 1963 and is told for a large part by Elizabeth a young child living with her parents in South Africa during Apartheid. It’s always an interesting choice to have a story told from a child’s perspective and I’m curious what you think having that viewpoint brings to the telling of the story.
KATHARINE
Well to begin with, the play is based on the playwright, Pamela Gien’s, experience as a child growing up in South Africa. Though most of the characters are fictional, they are shaped and informed by her life as a child. So, there is that somewhat autobiographical element to the choice of speaking the story through a child as Gien herself was a child growing up in South Africa during apartheid, and this is her story.
Also, the choice of telling this story through a child is a powerful way for an audience to connect to and empathize with the main character of the play, who is an innocent. Her naivety leads her to report what she sees, and she doesn’t judge or have the skills of an adult to fully process them. We see her experience and begin to work things out.
Lizzy is also an imaginative and emotionally open child, and so it’s fascinating to see into her world. We see her powerful love for her black nanny, Salamina, and Salamina’s child, Moliseng. And that relationship is at the very heart of the play.
The play is, in part, about family – two families who cross racial divides to bond with one another. Two mothers. Two children. And we see how their lives are intertwined even when living in a brutally divisive and dangerous apartheid society that actively and in the most authoritarian way seeks to divide them. In the telling of her story, Lizzy conjures up, as an imaginative child would do, the people who had a profound impact on her.
Having the main character as a child, also allows the play to gesture towards the invisible world of imagination, and then also to the invisible world of faith or the miraculous as moments of grace subtly break through into the characters’ lives at different moments in the story. The things we cannot see are given a part to play in this story.
Katharine Venour in the Rosebud Theatre Production of The Syringa Tree by Pamela Gien. Directed by Morris Ertman. Photo by Morris Ertman.
JAMES
You’ve worked with Morris Ertman the director of the show many times before but this is your first time working out here in Rosebud. And in The Syringa Tree, you’re portraying over twenty different characters. So, I’m curious about a couple of things. First, how would you describe your working relationship with Morris and second, what was the process like as the two of you lifted this story from the page to the stage and brought it to life?
KATHARINE
It is always a gift for an actor to work with a director you know really well. Morris is just brilliant at so many aspects of directing. He understands narrative and identifies the heart of a story. He communicates very well with me and he understands me as an actor. He knows sometimes I just need to work out a moment and he gives me the space and time to do that.
He is rigorous and clear about keeping the acting “grounded” – that means finding the psychological and emotional and physical reality of a moment or scene and that it is a real gift to an actor when a director can articulate that so clearly and in a way that inspires. He is specific and he is very generous in filling out the thoughts and feelings of a moment so that it makes sense for the actor.
He can see when something isn’t clear and he was particularly insightful in this process at bringing a clarity to my flips between characters in an elegant way that also allows the story to spill out and gives the blocking – the movement of the piece – a real natural flow that one can follow and understand.
Morris is passionate about the telling of story in a way that is authentic and true to life, rewarding for an audience, and he does this with great kindness to his actor. And besides his deep understanding of the acting process, he also knows how to weave sound and lights within the acting moments so beautifully. That has been particularly powerful in this production where the sound and lights create a world that we can imagine and feel.
Morris also has a great sense of humour so we have good laughs too, and the rehearsal hall is a place where the rigour of our work gets done in a joyful way.
Katharine Venour in the Rosebud Theatre Production of The Syringa Tree by Pamela Gien. Directed by Morris Ertman. Photo by Morris Ertman.
JAMES
I love small intimate theatre spaces like the Rosebud Studio Stage because I find these types of spaces are particularly compelling for telling stories. Small gestures and a change in voice or a moment of silence seem to have a bigger emotional impact since you’re not trying to reach the second balcony as you would in a large theatre space. How do you think the Studio Stage – lends itself to the telling of this story and this production of The Syringa Tree?
KATHARINE
Yes, I love intimate theatre spaces too – as an actor and an audience member. It allows for an intimacy between performer and audience member and that really serves this story. The smaller space gives the audience that wonderful experience of being very close to the performer and seeing every nuance – like a close-up in a movie. I’ve worked a lot on “alley staging” which is the stage formation for our production and where the audience sits on both sides of the playing space. I really like alley staging as it feels natural to me and allows me to use the whole space for movement as I’m working every side of the stage. It’s great for a one-person show as well as it provides a lot of visual variety for the audience.
JAMES
When we look at the story and its depiction of Apartheid, I think it not only shines a light on South Africa and its racial policies at the time but it makes us reflect in a bigger sense on Man’s tendency to oppress and divide throughout history. Every nation including our own has examples of these kinds of attitudes and behaviour. What do you think the story has to say about those aspects of humanity?
KATHARINE
Yes, humans dominating humans has certainly been a part of the history for many nations and it is good and healthy, though difficult, to reflect on that. But there are also examples throughout human history of moral frameworks which challenge bigotry, discrimination, and the will to dominate and instead encourage us to see all humans as integrally connected and valuable.
Christian scriptures, for example, teach that all humans are created in the ‘image of God’ and every human being has an inherent, intrinsic value that should be cherished and honoured. One of the commandments Jesus gave was to love one’s neighbour as oneself. The ancient South African philosophy of Ubuntu also shares this view of the interconnectedness of all human beings. According to Ubuntu philosophy, if a person hurts another person, they also hurt themselves. Systems like apartheid create a twisted and disturbed society that does not reflect what I see to be the fundamental human spiritual impulse towards love and connection – that ‘image of God’ planted in us.
The play reveals characters who struggle against division and oppression and towards loving relationships across racial lines. In that, it expresses something very deep and true about who we really are as humans and what we really long for in life, while not shying away from or minimizing the evil that we are capable of. The human spirit is strong, and I believe that when we acknowledge a power greater than ourselves – that is God – we can really live into our true calling by helping and loving others. And that way of being human aligns with the ‘image of God’ in us. For me, the play reveals that divine calling for humanity and in a haunting and beautifully subtle way gestures towards moments of grace and the invisible realm of the miraculous, as well as portraying the strength and perseverance of the human heart to overcome seemingly insurmountable obstacles.
Katharine Venour in the Rosebud Theatre Production of The Syringa Tree by Pamela Gien. Directed by Morris Ertman. Photo by Morris Ertman.
JAMES
You make your home in Vancouver now but you grew up in Calgary and lived in Priddis and went to the University of Calgary where you studied with Grant Reddick a well-known actor and teacher in the Calgary theatre community and so you have a history here – this was once home and so I’m wondering what’s it like to get a chance to perform on the Rosebud stage and share this story?
KATHARINE
It’s so lovely to be staying in Rosebud and performing in this beautiful play on their Studio Stage. It’s a one-woman show, but really I feel like the whole creative team is up there onstage with me. Luke Ertman has created an exquisite sound design and Brad Graham a beautiful lighting design and those elements of sound and lights feel like acting partners to me as they are so beautifully woven into the story by my director, Morris Ertman.
My costume is designed by Amy Castro and I love it as it moves with me through the portrayal of 22 different characters. The set I play on was built by Mark Lewandowski and scenic painter Cheryl Daugherty, creating an intimate space for me and the audience to explore the life of this play. My stage manager, Shannon Klassen, is the only other human who accompanies me on this journey, besides every member of the audience, and I am so grateful for her diligent and exacting work.
Katharine Venour
And then, of course, there is the playwright Pamela Gien whose words and wondrous story I am given to embody when I walk on stage. Theatre is always a collaboration of many artists, regardless of how many actors appear onstage, and I am so grateful to be surrounded by such gifted designers and artists here at Rosebud. The people of Rosebud are kind and hospitable, and it is also such a delight to be surrounded by the natural beauty of the land every day I walk to the theatre.
Vancouver has been home for me for 30 years now, and I have had beautiful professional opportunities there and great friendships. It is really wonderful to see my friends from Vancouver travel out to Rosebud to see the show – like two worlds – two homes – coming together.
And Alberta will always feel like home to me too. My husband and I and my two boys have travelled to Alberta every summer for the past 23 years to visit family. My parents spent 60 years of married life in Alberta. Both have died now – my Dad last Spring – so performing in Alberta this summer has a poignancy to it. I know my parents would be delighted that I am here on stage as they always supported my acting dreams and career. I have an enduring connection to Alberta.
I am forever grateful to my acting teacher and mentor, Grant Reddick, for his friendship and giving me such a strong and powerful foundation for acting when he taught me at the Theatre Department at the University of Calgary. He has been one of those people who has profoundly formed me.
This play is about home, as well as the deep bonds and influences that certain people have in one’s life and growth, so I resonate with that as I certainly feel the deep and loving influences of my parents, my family, my friends, my colleagues, and my teacher, Grant, in my life. The play also speaks to one’s connection to the land, and I feel that in Alberta. The prairies and the people of this province will always be a part of me.
This summer you can travel to Rosebud and enjoy a family-friendly and thoroughly entertaining production of the Rogers and Hammerstein much beloved musical The Sound of Music. The story is based on the 1949 memoir of Maria von Trapp, The Story of the Trapp Family Singers and contains many popular songs including “Do-Re-Mi”, “My Favorite Things”, “Sixteen Going on Seventeen”, “Edelweiss”, “Climb Every Mountain”, “So Long, Farewell”, and the title song, “The Sound of Music”.
The original Broadway production won five Tony Awards including Best Musical and the play was adapted into the 1965 film starring Julie Andrews and Christopher Plummer and went on to win five Academy Awards including Best Picture.
The story is set in 1938 Austria in the dark days leading up to the start of World War II and shortly before Germany annexed The Federal State of Austria into the German Reich. Against this backdrop we meet Maria who has taken a job as governess to the seven von Trapp children while she decides whether or not to become a nun.
Maria soon finds herself bonding with the children and eventually falling in love with their widowed father Captain von Trapp. Once Germany marches into Austria the Captain is ordered to report to the German navy but because of his opposition to the Nazis he and Maria devise a plan to flee Austria with the children.
In the Rosebud Theatre production, Cassia Schmidt as Maria and Ian Farthing as Captain von Trapp lead a talented cast that captures the joyful spirit of the show in a terrific production that will have you humming along to all your favourite tunes.
Cassia Schmidt in the Rosebud Theatre Production of The Sound of Music by Richard Rodgers and Oscar Hammerstein. Directed by Morris Eartman. Photo by Morris Ertman.
JAMES HUTCHISON
The Sound of Music was a huge hit when it came out and it has remained a much beloved musical and I was wondering what you think are the qualities that make it so popular.
CASSIA SCHMIDT
It’s a love story. Two love stories actually. It’s a story about someone that doesn’t belong, which is always good fun for a musical. And she finds a place where she belongs. And then the story is set in World War II which is such a dramatic time in our history, and it’s based on a true story. And I think at the heart of it we love Maria, and we’re rooting for her, and we want this family to win. At the core, I think we want people to find each other and find a place where they belong.
JAMES
You say we want people to find each other and in the story, Maria falls in love with the Captain and he her. Why do you think they fall in love?
CASSIA
I think it’s the same reason anyone falls in love. It just works for them for some reason. They shouldn’t fall in love because they’re from different classes and there’s an age difference between them and they’ve lived completely different lives. But for them, it just worked. There’s a kind of magic to falling in love. And it’s so personal, too, right? This is the big question, James. How do people fall in love?
Katelyn Morishita and Cassia Schmidt in the Rosebud Theatre Production of The Sound of Music by Richard Rodgers and Oscar Hammerstein. Directed by Morris Eartman. Photo by Morris Ertman.
JAMES
I read in an interview you gave to Louis Hobson in the Herald that there are parallels between your own story and Maria’s story. Maria is uncertain about whether or not she should devote her life to God or follow a different path. And you said you’d had a similar struggle. What was that journey like for you and how did you go about choosing a life of music and family and performance?
CASSIA
My biggest kind of discerning time was in my teenage years. I really felt a call and I was really attracted to the cloister. It’s a really romantic kind of idea to be contemplative and to be in community and to be separate from the world and married to God. But all these orders that I looked at never quite felt like the right place for me and I never quite got as far down the road as Maria does as actually entering a convent. I have stayed in some convents through travel and through friends and I loved staying with the sisters and there’s just something magic about a holy place. And I was really attracted to that.
And then I just thought I don’t think that’s quite where I’m called so where do I go now? And that’s when I ended up coming to Rosebud. I came here as a student. I did the program here. And the first mainstage show I did was Man of La Mancha. And we did something like ninety shows that summer. Ninety performances. And I remember about twenty shows in thinking this is awesome. If we close tomorrow, I would feel like I had a good experience. And then in my next thought, I realized that there are seventy more shows and I felt this calling because I realized this show isn’t about me it’s about what I get to offer to each new audience that comes to see it whether I feel like it or not on that particular day.
And I think there’s something about the self-sacrifice that the theatre asks for, as well as we’re in community together doing this show hoping to change hearts and hoping to inspire people. And, you know, a theatre does feel like a holy place a lot of the time. So, it was coming here that really affirmed for me that the theatre is the church I’m called to. And then I found someone that I love, and we have a family, and it didn’t feel like a big “Aha!” decision. Instead, it felt like I pieced it together and I followed a thread until it became so clear that this is where I belong.
Rosebud Theatre Production of The Sound of Music by Richard Rodgers and Oscar Hammerstein. Directed by Morris Eartman. Photo by Morris Ertman.
Rosebud Theatre Production of The Sound of Music by Richard Rodgers and Oscar Hammerstein. Directed by Morris Eartman. Photo by Morris Ertman.
Rosebud Theatre Production of The Sound of Music by Richard Rodgers and Oscar Hammerstein. Directed by Morris Eartman. Photo by Morris Ertman.
Ian Farthing and Glenda Warkentin in the Rosebud Theatre Production of The Sound of Music. Directed by Morris Ertman.
Lacey Cornelsen and Cassia Schmidt in the Rosebud Theatre Production of The Sound of Music by Richard Rodgers and Oscar Hammerstein. Directed by Morris Eartman. Photo by Morris Ertman.
Rosebud Theatre Production of The Sound of Music by Richard Rodgers and Oscar Hammerstein. Directed by Morris Eartman. Photo by Morris Ertman.
Lacey Cornelsen and Travis Edwards in the Rosebud Theatre Production of The Sound of Music by Richard Rodgers and Oscar Hammerstein. Directed by Morris Eartman. Photo by Morris Ertman.
Rosebud Theatre Production of The Sound of Music by Richard Rodgers and Oscar Hammerstein. Directed by Morris Eartman. Photo by Morris Ertman.
Rosebud Theatre Production of The Sound of Music by Richard Rodgers and Oscar Hammerstein. Directed by Morris Eartman. Photo by Morris Ertman.
Lacey Cornelsen and Travis Edwards in the Rosebud Theatre Production of The Sound of Music by Richard Rodgers and Oscar Hammerstein. Directed by Morris Eartman. Photo by Morris Ertman.
Rosebud Theatre Production of The Sound of Music by Richard Rodgers and Oscar Hammerstein. Directed by Morris Eartman. Photo by Morris Ertman.
Cassia Schmidt and Logan Hope in the Rosebud Theatre Production of The Sound of Music by Richard Rodgers and Oscar Hammerstein. Directed by Morris Eartman. Photo by Morris Ertman.
Cassia Schmidt and Ian Farthing in the Rosebud Theatre Production of The Sound of Music by Richard Rodgers and Oscar Hammerstein. Directed by Morris Eartman. Photo by Morris Ertman.
JAMES
The play has several young performers playing the von Trapp children, and so it provides an opportunity to pass on musical knowledge and mentor up-and-coming theatre artists. In what ways do you think mentorship is important for helping young people navigate their own professional development and life’s journey?
CASSIA
I’ve benefited from it. It’s such an integral part of what we do here in Rosebud. We call our training the Mentorship Program. So, we really believe in it. It’s like the good old 4-H club I was in when I was a kid. The 4-H model is – learn to do by doing.
You can go to a lot of classes, and you can read a lot about how to be an actor but standing on stage with an audience who will never lie to you because the audience is very clear about what they like and what they don’t like is indispensable. And you have a group of actors to support you and to be with you. And I think theatre can offer you a sense that you have value, and it builds confidence and it builds a sense of body and voice. And you don’t have to be the Gretel from the movie, you yourself are the perfect Gretel, and you yourself have so much to offer.
JAMES
Tell me what audiences can look forward to experiencing when they see the show.
CASSIA
I think this show is so beautifully cast and everybody is so well suited to their role. And what I’ve been seeing from our audience is a nostalgia in a way that no other show I’ve done before has had. I’ve done Anne of Green Gables – I’ve done Oliver! – and I’ve done some other musicals where people know them pretty well. But because The Sound of Music movie is so embedded in our culture people know this story and they remember watching it with their grandmother and they love this story in a way that’s physical and whatever their connection is to the story we can feel it in the show.
From the very first performance, we felt it as soon as we started the music because some people sing a little bit, or they repeat a line, and you hear them sighing or crying or laughing. And I was like, “Wow, people love this show.” And isn’t that wonderful that they get to come to see a show that they love and I’m happy to share it with them because I love the story too. It’s part of my childhood.
Cassia Schmidt and Ian Farthing in the Rosebud Theatre Production of The Sound of Music by Richard Rodgers and Oscar Hammerstein. Directed by Morris Eartman. Photo by Morris Ertman.
JAMES
I know you also produce original music with your most recent release called The Lullaby Project: Songs for the Sleep Deprived. Tell me a little bit about that project and how that came about.
CASSIA
It was my COVID project. I actually just wanted to do a writing project around parenthood and lullabies and to collaborate with people. And I’m a mom. We have three kids. We have a four-year-old, a two-year-old, and a four-month-old. And before I was a mom, I always thought what a romantic idea to rock your kids to sleep but instead it’s often frustrating and you’re tired and it’s not working. And so that’s why I call it songs for the sleep deprived. It’s more about songs for parents rather than songs that might put your baby to sleep.
And my favourite song I co-wrote with Lauren Hamm and Paul Zacharias we called “Time Go Easy”. We sat together and just talked about being parents and how there’s a saying that being a parent is saying goodbye to a child over and over again because the baby is gone now. You’ll never see that baby again, but now you’re saying hello to a toddler. And then you’ll never see that toddler again because now there’s this child, and now all of a sudden there’s this teenager, and then there’s this adult before me, right? So, we all had a good cry, and then we went off and we wrote this song that’s our pride and joy from the album.
Rosebud Theatre Production of The Sound of Music by Richard Rodgers and Oscar Hammerstein. Directed by Morris Eartman. Photo by Morris Ertman.
JAMES
What do you think it is about music that makes it such an important part of people’s lives?
CASSIA
I think it’s something Morris Ertman our director said at the end of rehearsals about the show. “This show is about music changing people’s hearts and wouldn’t that be amazing if that’s what we get to do all summer for audiences.” It’s like a softening of the heart and I think it’s a physical experience for us. Music has rhythm – like our heartbeat. Like our mom’s heartbeat. Like our family’s heartbeat. And I think when we’re listening to music, we’re part of the music. There’s something physical about it that goes into our spine and into our memory and into our feelings in a way that nothing else really can. So, just like falling in love – it’s magic. (Laughs) Everything’s magic.
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Catch The Sound of Music at Rosebud Theatre until September 2nd. Tickets are available through the Rosebud Theatre Website or by calling the Box Office at 1-800-267-7553.
Rosebud Theatre’s production of The Trip to Bountiful by Horton Foote is a rich and rewarding story about love, family, regrets, and hope all brought to life in a wonderful production that provides audiences with a memorable and highly entertaining night at the theatre.
Bringing the play to life is a terrific cast including Judith Buchan as Carrie Watts, Nathan Schmidt as Ludie, Heather Pattengale as Jessie Mae, Rebbekah Ogden as Thelma, and Caleb Gordon and Christopher Allan each playing multiple roles. The production is expertly directed by Morris Ertman who also designed the sets.
Judith Buchan as Carrie Watts in the Rosebud Theatre production of The Trip to Bountiful by Horton Foote. Photo by Morris Ertman.
All Carrie Watts wants to do is return to her childhood home of Bountiful but without money and being an old woman living with her son Ludie and his wife Jessie Mae her dream of returning home isn’t going to be an easy task to accomplish. She’s tried it before and failed but this time she’s secretly been making plans and preparations, and no one is going to stop her.
But she’s not the only one dealing with life’s difficulties. Ludie and Jessie Mae have had their own regrets because sometimes careers stall and stumble or our hopes for a family don’t work out the way we planned. In the end, all three characters have to figure out how to come to terms with life’s regrets and move forward.
After seeing the show on opening weekend, I arranged an interview with Judith Buchan to talk with her about the play and her portrayal of the feisty and determined Carrie Watts.
JAMES HUTCHISON
So, I saw the play and you know, we talk about the magic of theatre but the true magic of being deeply moved and at times getting lost in a play doesn’t happen very often. It’s a rare experience. But your production had that magic. And I wonder how much of that magic do you sense on the stage and what’s it like to be in a production that has the power to move an audience.
JUDITH BUCHAN
It’s beautiful to hear that actually. I am not sure how much I can sense that. I mean obviously we’re hoping to do justice to the material. Trying to connect and trying to find the truth and the honesty in these people the best we can. And with Horton Foote’s writing nothing is wasted. I go through the whole script every day before I perform it because it is so beautifully written that you do not want to stray from it in any way. And the more I study it, the more I realize nothing is wasted and everything comes back to a payoff at the end, and everything does connect in some way.
In some ways, it’s a little story. My daughter, Rachel, has a great description of this play. She says it’s about an inch wide and about a mile deep. And that really touched me because it’s not as if big things happen yet huge things are happening between the characters. Relationships are being altered in big ways and their eyes are being opened in deeper and more meaningful ways about themselves and each other. I had seen The Trip to Bountiful myself on Broadway with Cicely Tyson playing Mrs. Watts and I was deeply moved by it.
Heather Pattengale as Jessie Mae and Nathan Schmidt as Ludie in the Rosebud Theatre Production of The Trip to Bountiful by Horton Foote. Photo by Morris Eartman.
JAMES
It’s a play filled with ghosts because the people in it are mature characters. And I personally like plays about older characters and characters that have known each other for a long time. I just usually find those more interesting. There’s history there that includes tragedy and happiness, and that informs the relationships in the present. Tell me about your character and her journey, and why do you think all the characters in this play are so compelling?
JUDITH
Horton Foote just has the gift of writing simply but just so deeply. I had a lot of great aunts that were very powerful women and very resilient and strong and opinionated and who lived really complicated lives. And I’ve kind of been thinking about them while doing the play. My own mother loved this story, and she did say to me once you could play that part. I hadn’t actually thought of that before she said it, and she died last November so it’s been very poignant for me to be in a play and playing a character that I know she loved.
I think my character and the other characters in the play remind us of people we know. And Carrie loves her son even though his life has been a mess because of an illness. And she adores him so much and he adores both his mother and his wife Jessie Mae. And what would you call her? Well, she’s a strong flavour – Jesse Mae. Just a powerhouse of a person and loving her husband so much and she’s living in a time when she can’t really be more than what she is. And my daughter who really loves this play said Jessie Mae would’ve been a lawyer if she lived now. She’s smart but she’s kind of trapped looking after her mother-in-law and so what can she do?
I think you see the frustrations of the characters really, really well, the things they’re fighting against. And I just think there’s so much truth in the play about how we treat our elders. And I think it’s kind of unusual to have this senior lady being the one taking the journey and I love that.
Judith Buchan as Carrie Watts and Nathan Schmidt as Ludie in the Rosebud Theatre Production of The Trip to Bountiful by Horton Foote. Photo by Morris Eartman.
JAMES
Let’s talk a little bit about the production itself. I’d love to hear what it’s like to work with Nathan and Heather and bring this story to life.
JUDITH
I’m so fortunate. I’ve worked with Heather a few times before and so we already start at a place where we know each other and are comfortable with each other and love each other. So, it’s just fantastic. And Nathan and I haven’t really worked with each other but thirty years ago I taught a few courses here and I would come in from Olds and teach and he was a young student then. And you know its so good to see him mature and become such a fine actor and stay in Rosebud and put his roots down and contribute here and teach. So, it’s really been fun to be on stage with him.
And Rebecca was a student from here and she’s doing all kinds of things and she is just darling. And for her to be the stranger I meet on a bus…I mean how blessed am I to meet Rebecca on the bus every night and have to tell her my life story? And Caleb and Christopher they’re just great having to play several different roles and having to move all the backstage stuff so that things roll in smoothly and roll out smoothly. I agree with Morris our director that on this small stage not having a blackout and instead having everything moved around so smoothly works better and I just love the way that’s done. And I just find the music so beautiful that it almost makes me cry sometimes.
Judith Buchan as Carrie Watts and Rebbekah Ogden as Thelma in the Rosebud Theatre Production of The Trip to Bountiful by Horton Foote. Photo by Morris Eartman.
JAMES
Yeah, there’s not a production element that doesn’t work. From an audience point of view, the transitions between scenes are seamless. They dovetail beautifully. It’s like a dissolve on stage.
So, the main character is Carrie Watts. She’s older. She’s looking back at her life, and so, I’m curious about you and your thoughts about growing older and reflecting back. What’s that like?
JUDITH
It’s quite an experience to be able to play this woman and reflect back on my own life. I find certain things that she says really get to me like when she says she wants to know why her life has become so empty and so meaningless. That really gets to me every time because I think people feel that way quite often. And it’s just heartbreaking to have a lot of regrets and I think you can reach an older age and really be so full of regrets. And I can relate to her sometimes. I had one child, so my table isn’t full at Christmas or Easter, but I have great friends.
And in the play Carrie teaches me that you need to be thankful for what you have and whatever you have is enough and maybe we need to really be listening to that. So, I just think it’s really hopeful and helpful to see an older person take stock and admit she has regrets, and then manage to go past that and she sees that she gets her strength not from a house or from people but from the ocean and from the beauty around Bountiful.
Nathan Schmidt as Ludie, Heather Pattengale as Jessie Mae, and Judith Buchan as Carrie Watts in the Rosebud Theatre Production of The Trip to Bountiful by Horton Foote. Photo by Morris Ertman.
JAMES
So, I’m curious to know what you think theatre can offer a modern audience in this age of TikTok.
JUDITH
Well of course, it’s the shared community experience that we were deprived of for the years during Covid. Sitting together in a room and laughing together or crying together and watching something happen in real-time right in front of you. You know, it’s a shared thing that I think is ancient and powerful.
And at Rosebud walking home from a show under the stars and the northern lights and hearing the coyotes in the distance keeps you very grounded in the land and the earth. And having a theatre school here and a community of theatre artists here there’s a big commitment to honesty in the storytelling which you know, most theatres would go along with, but I think somehow because this is an earthy place, I buy more into the honesty. And somehow Rosebud manages to find the essence of the shows they produce and so I enjoy what happens at Rosebud very, very much, and I’m so privileged to be able to work here.
Vertigo Theatre presents a highly entertaining and suspenseful production of Gaslight by Johnna Wright and Patty Jamieson based on the play Angel Street by Patrick Hamilton. Bringing the play to life is a terrific cast including Kelsey Verzotti as Bella, Braden Griffiths as Jack, Valerie Planche as Elizabeth, and Hailey Christie-Hoyle as Nancy. The production is directed by Jack Grinhaus and delivers plenty of mystery and suspense.
Kelsey Verzotti as Bella and Braden Griffiths as Jack in the Vertigo Theatre Production of Gaslight by Johnna Wright and Patty Jamieson. Directed by Jack Grinhaus. Photo by Tim Nguyen.
All devoted husband Jack Manningham wants is for his wife Bella to get well. Ever since moving into their new home in London Bella has experienced a number of episodes that have made her doubt her own sanity. Items disappear, noises are heard, and the gaslight dims on its own. Jack enlists the help of Elizabeth the housekeeper and the new maid Nancy to make sure that Bella gets the rest and quiet she needs in order to recover. But things aren’t exactly as they seem and as layers of the story are revealed – including the disturbing history of the house – Bella must figure out what’s really going on before things turn deadly.
I spoke with the director of Gaslight Jack Grinhaus about the play, his role as Artistic Director of Vertigo Theatre, and what fictional detective he’d want to clear his name if he’d been wrongly accused of murder.
JAMES HUTCHISON
So, Gaslight takes place in Victorian London. There are mysteries at play and sinister forces at work. Tell me about your production of Gaslight and what audiences can expect from spending a night with Bella and Jack.
JACK GRINHAUS
It’s a great classic thriller but because of this new adaptation it feels very present and modern. There’s this woman who feels isolated in her home and I think we’ve all known what that feels like over the last few years, and she’s in a relationship she can’t understand, and she is confused about herself. And in this new adaptation, Bella is the agent of her own freedom, as opposed to the original script which had a detective come in and help solve the puzzle. All three women in the story are extremely strong actors and characters and it’s been really exciting to work with them.
And I see the play very much as a superhero origin story because there’s this woman who starts off feeling like she can’t believe in herself. She doesn’t trust herself. She doesn’t trust the world around her. She thinks maybe something is going on in her mind, but as time progresses she’s like Neo in The Matrix. She starts to accept that she can actually expose all the truths of the story. And I think audiences will have a really great time following her because it’s from her point of view and while she’s being gaslit we’re gaslighting the audience as well with the way we’re staging the play and with the way we’re using the design elements.
Braden Griffiths as Jack and Kelsey Verzotti as Bella in the Vertigo Theatre Production of Gaslight by Johnna Wright and Patty Jamieson. Directed by Jack Grinhaus. Photo by Tim Nguyen.
JAMES
Our perception of ourselves often depends on the feedback that we get from others.
JACK
Yes.
JAMES
How much of our identity do you think comes from what others reflect back to us?
JACK
Well, that kind of goes back to that existentialism, Sartre kind of idea, right? There’s no shame until we are witnessed by others. It’s a really intriguing question. I’m going to give you a little anecdote of me gaslighting myself recently.
During our run of Murder on the Orient Express, Haysam who starred as Poirot was doing the big Poirot finale. I was in my office. I was listening to the play on the program sound outside in the hallway.
I thought, “Okay, I’ll go down and see the applause and go talk to the audience after the show. I’ll just hang out in the office until then because I’ve seen it fifty times.” And I waited for a particular point in Poirot’s final monologue, where he speaks about one of the characters and he says, “Oh, she’s in a new play called No, No, Nanette on Broadway and she’s very successful.” And I went, “Okay, great. I’m going to head down.”
And I went downstairs, and I went into the theatre, and I slowly opened the door, and as soon as I walked in Haysam was on stage saying, “Oh, she’s in a new Broadway show called No, No, Nanette and she’s very successful.” And I went, “What the hell? How? Didn’t I just hear?” And I started to question myself. I went, “Oh, no. I must have only thought I’d heard that line.” And then I found out after the show that a woman had actually shouted in the audience and they’d stopped the show. She thought her husband was having a medical emergency, but he actually just had his eyes closed and was listening.
So, they decided to restart the play and go back to the top of the monologue, and I walked out of my office and into the theatre at the same moment in Poirot’s final monologue missing all of what happened in between. I thought, “I must have lost my mind.” It was funny because why wasn’t my first instinct to think, “Oh, maybe something happened on stage, and they had to go back?” Instead, my first instinct was to think that there’s something wrong with me. I basically gaslit myself.
And I think people who are predators can really take advantage of that kind of thing. Knowing that people self-deprecate and blame themselves and their sense of shame and guilt is so high in relationship to other people that they doubt themselves. And it’s because we always want to please the people around us. That’s the secret weapon of the person who does the gaslighting.
JAMES
You’ve got Kelsey Verzotti as Bella, Braden Griffiths as her husband Jack, Valerie Planche as the housekeeper Elizabeth, and Hailey Christie-Hoyle as the new maid Nancy. What are some of the qualities this cast brings to their characters and to the telling of the story?
JACK
I’ve known Val for a long time. We’ve worked together in the past. And so, I knew Val and I knew her as a great rock in a company, a strength in a company. She’s a director as well, which I like as a director because you’ll get someone who’s looking at the big picture from the inside. And her great strength of character I knew would support some of the younger women in the show, Kelsey and Hailey, who are still new to a certain extent. They’ve both started to have burgeoning careers, but they’re still in the early stage of their career. And I thought here’s their first big chance at a really intimate big show here in Calgary. It’s good to have someone like Val who can keep them grounded and supported when needed and Val’s also such a strong actor that she brings up the people around her too.
And there’s something about Haley’s ability, even in her youth, to show great strength of character and independence. And that’s really great for her playing Nancy, who’s sort of an obstinate maid in the house who’s got her own game going. So, Haley right from the audition had this kind of maturity and wisdom that I felt was important for playing Nancy because Nancy is someone who probably came from the street, probably has a lot more street sense and streetwise than education and wealth because she came from nothing. And so, she has to have – even in her youth – this look in her eye that shows experience and life.
Hailey Christie-Hoyle as Nancy in the Vertigo Theatre Production of Gaslight by Johnna Wright and Patty Jamieson. Directed by Jack Grinhaus. Photo by Tim Nguyen.
Braden is a brilliant actor and has always been the good guy in shows in Calgary. He’s never really been known as the bad guy. So, this is a great way to gaslight the audience by going, “Hey, look it’s the nicest guy in Calgary.” And I just think Braden’s such a strong actor bar none that his ability to play the ambiguity of Jack is really exciting because that’s really hard. It’s hard to direct an actor into ambiguity. And that’s what we need because you can’t totally know whether Jack is really the bad guy or not. And maybe he isn’t. You have to see the production to find out. And that ambiguity that Braden brings to the character keeps the audience guessing for as long as possible.
And Kelsey is such a strong, young actor who needs to be able to carry the weight of the show. She has this great sensitivity and emotional availability and vulnerability, but at the same time you can see there is a powerful spirit there, a strong human there. And that’s Bella. Bella is both. And oftentimes you’ll find actors who play one or the other better. Somebody who’s better at playing somebody who’s vulnerable and not as strong. And then other people can play someone with a hard edge but not as vulnerable. And Kelsey has this great balance flowing between those two worlds which is what we need to legitimately believe Bella’s journey. We need an actor who can be vulnerable and then finds the strength to empower themselves to success.
And the cast has really great chemistry and the second we had the first read we knew we nailed it. They all have these qualities that I perceived as important for the version we are telling of Gaslight.
Kelsey Verzotti as Bella and Valerie Planche as Elizabeth in the Vertigo Theatre Production of Gaslight by Johnna Wright and Patty Jamieson. Directed by Jack Grinhaus. Photo by Tim Nguyen.
JAMES
The title of the play is Gaslight but in a greater sense we’re talking about betrayal. Being betrayed leaves a deep wound and it seems to be a common theme in a lot of plays and movies and books. Why do you think it is we like stories about betrayal?
JACK
Partly because we all understand it. We’ve all had a moment in our life where we’ve been gaslit. We’ve all had personal or professional relationships in business and in life where somebody has led us down a particular path and then pulled the rug out from under us. And I think we all know what a terrible feeling it is to go through that.
But I also think betrayal is part of the bigger picture of what we do at Vertigo, which is intrigue. I think most people in our world are honourable as humans. And for us, we’re fascinated by the underbelly of society. We’re fascinated with people who are willing to do things that we may not be willing to do. And so, you have television shows like Succession and even though these stories are dramas it’s really about the intrigue. It’s about trying to figure out why, how, and who in regard to the story. The thing about Vertigo is we lay so many breadcrumbs that our audiences are used to watching every blink, every chin movement, and every hand gesture. And so, I’m really marking those moments in the play, and I think the audiences love that. I think that we as humans love to solve puzzles and riddles.
Kelsey Verzotti as Bella, Braden Griffiths as Jack and Valerie Planche as Elizabeth in the Vertigo Theatre Production of Gaslight by Johnna Wright and Patty Jamieson. Directed by Jack Grinhaus. Photo by Tim Nguyen.
JAMES
Part of the job of the artistic director is to provide a vision forward in regard to the theatre and the plays it produces. Next season you’ll be designing your first season as Artistic Director of Vertigo Theatre. I’m curious to know what goes through your mind as you’re picking the plays you want to produce and designing an overall season.
JACK
It’s a great question. It’s a huge one. Because you’re encapsulating quite a bit. As an artistic director you have to imagine that there are maybe thirty or forty balloons that you’re trying to hold all the strings together on. First is the theatre you’re working at and its mandates. You have to serve that. Then you have to serve the needs of the patrons, the donors, the staff, the marketing, the board, the funders, the sponsors, the local community, and your own artistic interests.
Jack Grinhaus Artistic Director Vertigo Theatre Photo by Dahlia Katz
And, of course, you’re making sure that there is parody and equity in the voices and faces involved in projects. And I like to look at what the tone of the world is at the time, what’s going on in the ether at the moment. What’s the zeitgeist reading so that people always feel like there’s something interconnected in the works they’re seeing artistically.
Our current season I said was so much about people escaping isolation. Which is intriguing because that is exactly what we’ve all been doing. Next season is a season of what I call transformation. A season of people starting to look again at who they are and trying to affect the world around them and how that works. And to me, that’s very much what we’re doing now. We’re coming out of the pandemic and we’re asking ourselves, who are we now and how do we impact the world around us? And so, all the plays for next season were built around that thematic element.
And I’m interested in authenticity and intensity in the work. I think it’s really important that people are drawn into the stories and the emotional experience. And I love high theatricality, so I always pick plays that are really theatrical in nature, and I’m also interested in balancing seasoned and new audiences’ interests.
And so as an artistic director I’m trying to blend all of those things together in an exciting, engaging, and thrilling season and to offer something fun because people have been beaten up over the last little while and they want entertaining plays with great stories and I think that’s what makes Vertigo seasons so successful.
JAMES
While I was doing a little research on you and I came across Bound To Create Theatre which was formed in 2004 by yourself and Lauren Brotman. And on your website, it says in regards to the type of work you create that you are keenly interested in the beauty, boldness, and truth born from confronting the challenges that face the human spirit. So, what has been a highlight or two from the work that you’ve created with B2C Theatre about the challenges of being human and what sort of impact do you hope it’s had?
Lauren Brotman in Hedda Noir adapted by Jack Grinhaus from the Henrik Ibsen play Hedda Gabler. Photo by Philomena Hughes.
JACK
When we started the company we realized there were a lot of niche issues that were not necessarily being discussed and so we started taking on stories that we felt were about lesser-known issues and also exploring highly theatrical means and premiering incredible works by new voices in theatre.
One that really sticks out for me is dirty butterfly by Jamaican British playwright debbie tucker green, which is kind of a poetic piece about the collateral damage of domestic abuse. We had this incredible underbelly storyline, and we’re also premiering in North America for the first time this incredible black playwright from the UK. Obsidian Theater, who’s the premier black company in Canada, partnered with us for that.
And it was incredible because we would have women’s shelters coming to see the shows and women coming out saying, “You know, seeing your show made me understand that I’m not alone.” And when you hear that – that’s kind of everything. Martha Graham once said that if she affected one person in her show in the entire run then it was worth it. And now debbie tucker green’s work is world-renowned.
Lauren Brotman, Kaleb Alexander, and Beryl Bain in dirty butterfly by debbie tucker green. Photo by Joe Bucci.
Also, Meegwun Fairbrother’s Isitwendam (An Understanding) which was a play about a young man who is half indigenous and half white and he goes to work for the Conservative Government and his first job is to go and discredit a residential school survivor’s reparation claim. And when he goes there his whole life is turned upside down as he finds out about residential schools. We started this fifteen years ago and now we’re hearing more about residential schools, but at the time that was not a subject that most places or people were interested in negotiating.
We worked with Native Earth in Toronto that premiered our play and we toured it all over the country and it was just a real opportunity to deal with a really important issue but in a really unique way. It was a detective fiction basically because it was about a young man who is trying to figure out the mystery of his missing father. And it ends up that his father was at one of the schools and had taken his life. That’s what started to pull me into the detective genre because I co-wrote and co-created it with Meegwun Fairbrother – the writer – the creator. He brought his story and I sort of created this bubble of detective fiction and Lauren and I sort of tweaked and worked in that. And so that was really exciting.
Meegwun Fairbrother in Isitwendam by Meegwun Fairbrother and co-created by Jack Grinhaus. Photo by Joe Bucci.
For the first fifteen years or so we were purposefully tackling things that we just didn’t think people did. And we were very lucky to have a very strong audience and community-based support behind it. And it was really exciting. And we learned how to do everything – write, produce, direct and it really defined who we were as artists and our integrity as artists and our passion and how hard we work.
Ray Strachan and Lauren Brotman in Hedda Noir adapted by Jack Grinhaus from the Henrik Ibsen play Hedda Gabler. Photo by Philomena Hughes.
JAMES
For my last question let me set the scene for you. It’s been a weekend where you and a number of other artistic leaders from the Calgary community have been brought together at a remote mansion by an eccentric millionaire named Sir Cedric Digglesworth who wants to leave his fortune to the arts community, but rumours are rampant that not everyone is on his good list and he’s about to change his will. Then in the middle of the night, a gunshot rings out and when everyone rushes into the library they find you holding the proverbial smoking gun and the lifeless body of our famous arts patron Sir Digglesworth lying dead at your feet. You stand wrongly accused of murder. What famous fictional detective would you want to investigate the crime and clear your name and why would you want to pick that particular detective?
JACK
This one is going to be the shortest answer and the easiest one for me. I would take Batman, the Dark Night Detective, any day of the week. Batman would come in and not only solve the crime, but he would equally punish the appropriate criminal in a way that would be a more fitting justice than maybe what the cops would. And so my go-to is always going to be Batman.
JAMES
Was Batman a hero when you were a kid?
JACK
Oh, of course. I had all the comics on the walls and all the books as well. And he’s called the Dark Night Detective, you know, and the new Batman is that detective genre style.
JAMES
Do you have a favourite Batman?
JACK
Listen, I’m a kid in the nineties, so I gotta go with Keaton. The sound of his voice is always going to be Batman to me. And my favourite actor ever is Jack Nicholson. It’s really hard to beat that joker.
Murder on the Orient Express at Vertigo Theatre is a masterful and thrilling production of the Agatha Christie classic cleverly adapted for the stage by Ken Ludwig.
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Everything is not as it seems. That statement has never been more true of a murder mystery than in Agatha Christie’s Murder on the Orient Express. Hercule Poirot finds himself surrounded by an eclectic assortment of characters including wealthy American businessman with a shady past Samuel Ratchett, the elderly Russian Princess Dragomiroff forced to live in exile, and the overbearing, loud, and life of the party Mrs. Hubbard, an American. Before the train can reach its destination, it is stopped by a snow drift in the mountains and during the night one of the passengers is murdered!
Poirot is assigned the task of investigating the murder by his friend and manager of the railroad Mousier Bouc who is also travelling on the train. There’s an abundance of clues. An abundance of suspects. And only Hercule Poirot can untangle the web of deception and decipher all the clues to figure out his most baffling and morally challenging case.
Vertigo Theatre takes you along for a thrilling, fun, and intriguing murder mystery featuring a terrific cast including Haysam Kadri as Hercule Poirot. I sat down with the director of the play Jovanni Sy who is also a playwright and actor to talk with him about Murder on the Orient Express, what makes the mystery genre so popular, and how he came to play Mr. Miyagi in the premiere of The Karate Kid – The Musical.
JAMES HUTCHISON
The murder mystery is a popular genre of fiction. So, I’m curious what do you think it is about that genre that has such a lasting appeal, and then I’m wondering specifically, why is Poirot such a popular figure? What did Agatha Christie stumble upon or deliberately design to make Poirot the much beloved and popular character that he is?
JOVANNI SY
I have a theory. I think people love mysteries because the detective is ultimately a seeker of truth. It’s solving a puzzle but it’s also trying to uncover the truth in the face of all your adversaries trying to inundate you with lies. There’s something really appealing about that, about being able to weed through all the deception, weed through all the artifice to uncover a nugget of truth.
And as for Poirot, I think people love him because he’s a showman. He’s so idiosyncratic. One of the really interesting things about the whole detective genre is that we get to know most well-known detectives on a reasonably superficial level. The story is not about their journey to get from point A to point B and learn something along the way. It really is a plot-driven genre, so people will like mysteries in as far as the mystery is compelling and good.
I don’t think Poirot would’ve been a popular detective if Christie weren’t extremely adept at constructing these wonderful puzzles for him. We know his characteristics, but they’re all rather external. They’re about his vanity or his pomposity or his strict moral code. But he doesn’t often undergo a dramatic journey the way protagonists in other genres do. It’s really about how good is he at solving the mystery.
Mike Tan as Monsieur Bouc, Sarah Roa as Countess Andrenyi, and Haysam Kadri as Hercule Poirot in the Vertigo Theatre Production of Agatha Christie’s Murder on the Orient Express adapted for the stage by Ken Ludwig and directed by Jovanni Sy. Photo by Tim Nguyen
JAMES
In this production, you’ve assembled a stellar cast including Haysam Kadri who is portraying Poirot. What do you think are the qualities Haysam brings to his portrayal of Poirot and as the director of the play how much of that is the director’s vision and how much is the actor’s vision? How did that collaboration work on this production?
JOVANNI
What Haysam brings, other than being a superlative actor is real fierce intelligence. He’s really good at thinking through the text. I mean, I think it’s no surprise he is the artistic director of The Shakespeare Company, and you know for most interpreters of Shakespeare you really need a very rigorous sense of diction and thought. Thought and text have to be aligned and with Shakespeare it requires a real cerebral kind of technique.
And I think approaching the character ultimately, it’s him. He’s the guy doing it. I think where I help is early on in rehearsal, I felt he was doing a wonderful job right off the top, but it felt like his Poirot had a more Sherlock Holmes kind of rhythm to him. Because, you know he’s done such a wonderful job of playing Holmes where everything was super direct, and Holmes is like tunnel focused and everything is to get to the point. Poirot’s not like that.
Poirot is a hedonist. Poirot loves his rich food and his expensive wines and beautiful women. And he is a bit of a showman. In Ludwig’s text he has a lot of stuff where Poirot’s constructed something like the way a magician would present a trick – you sit there and in a second I will show you – this! And he constructs a lot of reveals in a very ostentatious almost vaudevillian kind of way.
So, we almost had to slow down Haysam’s motor. I think his own personal motor is probably more closely aligned to a Holmes-like character who is super fast, super cerebral, super to the point, and instead have him sit back and really enjoy the indulgences of a Poirot and the way he enjoys unfurling the mystery for you in a very showy manner.
JAMES
You know, it’s interesting too with Poirot being as you mentioned a hedonist that perhaps he is more in touch with the psychology and motivation of his suspects.
JOVANNI
Absolutely. I think you’re quite right. Whereas Holmes is much more evidence-driven, science-driven, and data-driven with his kind of process Poirot is about constructing the mindset of the killer. He definitely looks at a murder scene and thinks, “Is this a tidy or an untidy kind of killing? What frame of mind were the perpetrator or perpetrators in? Were they in a hurry? Were they enjoying themselves?” He really tries to pinpoint the psychological makeup and motivators for any kind of crime and match that against his range of suspects. Whereas Holmes is practically on the spectrum where he observes a lot but misses things about the way people work because he’s clinical and robotic in his approach.
Lara Schmitz as Greta Ohlsson, Haysam Kadri as Hercule Poirot, Elizabeth Stepkowski-Tarhan as Princess Dragomiroff in the Vertigo Theatre Production of Agatha Christies’s Murder on the Orient Express adapted for the stage by Ken Ludwig and directed by Jovanni Sy. Photo by Tim Nguyen
JAMES
One of the interesting things about Murder on the Orient Express is of course the setting because the play takes place on a train, and that certainly provides challenges for your set designer, Scott Reid and your actors. But it’s also fun to see on stage. Can you talk a little bit about the set design and what it was like to create that world and put the characters into it?
JOVANNI
It has its inherent challenges. Some things are really hard to circumvent as in Ratchet’s sleeping compartment must be next to Mrs. Hubbard’s on one side and Poirot’s on the other. You can’t really get around that. I think the geography of the crime is pertinent to its uncovering. So, some things are set in stone.
It’s a challenge because a train is a confined space and I think we leaned into it as much as possible. We didn’t try to do an abstract representation where a train corridor could suddenly easily accommodate the five people who needed to be in the corridor. So, you know, in that scene where they’re all passing each other, we just leaned into how even in the most luxurious train on earth you still have a problem if it gets crowded when you try to pass each other in a corridor. Or when you have nine people in a room that is literally three by five how do you stage that?
It was tricky and it takes a lot of precision so that people aren’t blocking each other. Fortunately, the sight lines are good. Scott created some really smart conventions like being able to see through the walls from the rooms to the corridor and having walls implied but not completely filled out.
Luigi Riscaldino as Michel the Conductor, Sarah Roa as Countess Andrenyi, Haysam Kadri as Hercule Poirot, Mike Tan as Monsieur Bouc the Vertigo Theatre Production of Agatha Christies’s Murder on the Orient Express adapted for the stage by Ken Ludwig and directed by Jovanni Sy. Photo by Tim Nguyen
JAMES
So, I want to talk a little bit about another iconic character because you’re also an actor and earlier this year you were in the world premiere of The Karate Kid – The Musical, and you played Mr. Miyagi, who in the original movie was played by Pat Morita. What was it like to work on that show and become part of the DNA, so to speak, of Mr. Miyagi?
JOVANNI
It was surreal is the only word I have for it. I mean, that was such an iconic movie for me. I was sixteen when it came out. And, Pat Morita, you have to understand, was like an idol to a whole generation of Asian performers, because we were so underrepresented. There were so few figures in television and film that weren’t the stereotypical background kind of guy who was a buffoon or an idiot or just inconsequential. Mr. Miyagi had power and agency and dignity and humour and pathos and Pat Morita did an incredible job. He got an Oscar nomination. So, he’s an iconic figure to so many Asian performers and artists of my generation and subsequent generations.
So, to walk into his shoes was daunting because he created a character that everybody knows – everybody loves, and the challenge was how to interpret it and make it my own and not try to just copy him because I couldn’t even if I tried. Even if I just wanted to say, “Hey, let me just crib, everything Pat Morita did.” I’m not Pat Morita. It wouldn’t work. And, in the end, what made it even more surreal was Ralph Macchio, William Zabka, and Martin Kove they all came out to see the show in St. Louis. Talk about meeting your idols. So, it was an incredible experience.
Director, Actor, Playwright Jovanni Sy
JAMES
I did read somewhere that there are plans for Broadway. Is that correct?
JOVANNI
It’s still in the works. I think if it happened it would probably happen in 2024, but you never know. It could happen. I hope it does. I would love to do that show again.
JAMES
Is that an ambition of yours to get on the Broadway stage?
JOVANNI
You know, it wasn’t. I’m pretty happy with my career in Canada. I mean it’s not an ambition in the sense of one that I would say I actively pursued. There are musical theatre specialists who move to New York, and they’re clearly working towards that trajectory. So it was, I would say more of a fantasy than an ambition. I thought about it the same way I thought it would be great to play shortstop for the Jays, you know, it’s just in the back of my mind. I took no concrete steps to get there. It just sort of happened. But would it be great to be on Broadway? Yeah.
JAMES
I understand that when this opportunity first came up you were busy with a lot of other things and you went, “Nah, I’m not going to do it.” But your wife, Leanna Brodie, had some good career advice for you.
JOVANNI
That’s absolutely true. When I got the call I was directing my thesis play at the University of Calgary. I had just started. I was at the busiest I could have been and I was also scheduled to direct a show in Winnipeg around the time that Karate Kid would’ve happened. So, I thought, you know, I already said I’d do something else, but she said, “Look your friend would understand if you got this. You could pull out of your directing commitment.” Which I ended up doing. But she told me, “If you’re going to do it, don’t just do it half-ass. Do a good job.” And I listened to her. I actually really worked on the video audition. I sent it in still thinking this is ridiculous. There’s no way. But it happened. It just happened and I almost didn’t bother submitting because I thought I’m too busy. Leona is the smartest person I know and always gives very good advice.
Daniel Chen as Victor Fung and John Ng as Tommy Lam in the Vertigo Theatre Premier of Nine Dragons by Jovanni Sy. Directed by Craig Hall. Photo by Tim Nguyen.
JAMES
You’re an actor, director, and you’re also a playwright. Your very own mystery, Nine Dragons, premiered on the Vertigo stage in 2017, which I saw, and I really liked. The story follows Chinese Detective Tommy Lam in 1920s Hong Kong, while he investigates the deaths of several women, and he finds himself battling racism and he risks losing his career, reputation, and maybe even his life. So where did the inspiration for that story come from and what does the future hold for Detective Tommy Lam?
JOVANNI
The funny thing is, I had an image of Tommy’s foil the character Victor Fung, first. I think I saw a picture of a Chinese man in a beautiful tuxedo looking very Noel Cowardesque and I thought, what an interesting man, who is he, why is he dressed like this? And I thought of a Victor Fung like character and I’ve always loved mysteries so the idea to make it noiresque and set it in 1920s Colonial Hong Kong came early.
I was working on this piece in Toronto before I moved out to Vancouver in 2012, but I ran into Craig Hall the artistic director of Vertigo Theatre at a conference in Calgary and we talked about this piece I was writing and he thought, that sounds really interesting. And Craig has his own connection to Hong Kong, and he’s been to Hong Kong a number of times. So, that’s how it started. That’s the connection to Vertigo and why it premiered there. It wouldn’t have happened without Craig.
And what’s in store for Tommy? Craig actually commissioned a prequel, which is another Tommy Lam story that takes place about thirteen years before Nine Dragons. So, we’re talking 1911, Hong Kong and I started working on it. And it may have a future at Vertigo. Jack Grinhaus the current artistic director of Vertigo Theatre and I have been talking about it but it’s early. We’ll see.
JAMES
You know, you’re writing plays and you’re creating this character have you ever thought of writing some Tommy Lam mystery novels? You could write a whole series.
JOVANNI
I haven’t. But you know I love that genre and if I were to turn to long-form fiction, I think I would go in the mystery direction.
John Ng as Tommy Lam and Duval Lang as Henderson in the Vertigo Theatre Premiere of Nine Dragons by Jovanni Sy. Directed by Craig Hall. Photo by Tim Nguyen.
JAMES
So, you not only write mystery, but you also write comedy and congratulations are in order because you recently won the Playwrights Guild of Canada Comedy Award for your play, The Tao of the World. And it’s a free adaptation of William Congreve’s Restoration comedy, The Way of the World. Your modern version takes place in Singapore, and it’s two years after a pandemic and the wealthy elite are making up for lost time by hatching schemes to bed other people’s partners and to swindle each other out of their dynastic fortunes. What’s the story behind the creation of that work?
JOVANNI
It’s really weird. I was at the UofC doing my MFA in directing and I needed to direct a thesis play. It kind of happened coincidentally because I was working on this Nine Dragons prequel which is a totally different beast and I had plans to direct this other play, a Brecht piece and then the faculty had some reservations about the viability of doing that piece so they suggested I do something else. And somebody said, “You know, we’re in the middle of COVID, we could use some laughs. Have you thought about doing a comedy?”
So, I thought, I’ve always loved Restoration comedy. I remember seeing a bunch early in my career and being a fan of a number of them. And I started looking at them and I thought about The Way of the World, but I thought at the same time, how can I take this established piece and try to reinterpret it from modern times because there’s something interesting about a new definition of restoration.
The Restoration comedies are all about the restoration of the monarchy after Cromwell. You know, the years of the Republic. So it’s the restoration of the monarchy coming in because most of the English royalists had been exiled in France. But what does restoration mean today? And to me it really meant the restoration of everyday life after we’ve been shut down.
I started working on it right in the middle of COVID when we were still working remotely, learning remotely. Masks were mandatory. Social distancing was mandatory. And so, what would it be like after COVID? Because I imagine the rich and wealthy would be just as naughty post-COVID as they were post-restoration of the monarchy, there’d be a kind of a giddy bawdiness and licentiousness.
And of course, I wanted to set it in an Asian setting because that’s what I’ve done with a lot of my works is try to recenter the experience to interpret it to a modern audience that includes Asians but doesn’t exclude everyone else. So that’s how it came about and was set in Singapore. It was almost like an experiment that just went really, really well.
JAMES
So, you know, it’s funny you mentioned needing a play and then this comes along. How much of your work do you find is just having the practical thing that you need and then inspiration strikes?
JOVANNI
That happens more often than you’d guess. I hadn’t even thought of it that way. Thank you. Wow. That’s a real, Aha! Yeah. I think it’s born of pragmatism first then the inspiration comes later. Or you know, not even inspiration. It’s like, I’ve got something to solve, so how do I solve it? I’m almost a believer that inspiration’s overrated and that if you frame creativity as a series of puzzles to be solved where you can define the parameters what you would call inspiration comes afterwards because you’ve had something active to work on.
Which is why I love writing in genre. I love the mystery genre. So, genre can actually be liberating because it sets the parameters for you and gives you something to do so you don’t have time to worry about do I have some kind of divine inspiration? You’re just trying to crack a knot, right?
JAMES
Inspiration is problem-solving.
JOVANNI
Yeah.
JAMES
We read mysteries, and we watch them on TV or at the movies, but there’s something extra fun and engaging about going to the theatre and seeing detective fiction. What makes the stage such an ideal and fun medium for experiencing a who-done-it and what sort of fun are audiences in for when they come to see your production of Murder on the Orient Express?
JOVANNI
I think first, it’s ultimately a fair test because you are literally, as an audience member, seeing everything exactly the same as the detective is seeing it. Everything that’s happening is happening in front of your eyes. There are no edits. There’s no selective choosing of things. You are solving the mystery at the same rate and with the same details that the detective has. So, it’s fair.
But the other thing is the implication that you can experience a surprise. The gasp. It’s happening right in front of your eyes – the mystery or shock, or unexpected bit of violence, or an unexpected bit of mayhem – it’s so immediate. And I think that’s why the stage is one of the best places to see mystery because it’s a visceral thing. You get that immediate connection when reading a mystery but it’s not in front of your eyes. You’re not seeing blood or a flash of light or hearing a sound that resonates to your core. So, if you’re going to see Murder on the Orient Express, you’re in for a literal ride. It’s like a train ride. You feel like you’re there on the train confined with the passengers and there’s a sense of danger and a sense of fun.
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VERTIGO THEATRE presents Agatha Christie’s classic MURDER ON THE ORIENT EXPRESS Adapted for the stage by Ken Ludwig
Agatha Christie’s MURDER ON THE ORIENT EXPRESS features Haysam Kadri as Hercule Poirot, Luigi Riscaldino as Michel the Conductor/ Head Waiter, Stafford Perry as Col. Arbuthnot/Ratchett, Jesse Del Fierro as Mary Debenham, Elinor Holt as Mrs. Hubbard, Alexander Ariate as Hector MacQueen, Mike Tan as Monsieur Bouc, Elizabeth Stepkowski-Tarhan as Princess Dragomiroff, Lara Schmitz as Greta Ohlsson and Sarah Roa as Countess Andrenyi.
MURDER ON THE ORIENT EXPRESS is Directed by Jovanni Sy, Assistant Direction by Camryn Hathaway, Set & Projection Design by Scott Reid, Costume Design by April Viczko, Assistant Costume Design by Katriona Dunn, Lighting Design by Jonathan Kim, Sound Design & Original Composition by Andrew Blizzard, Assistant Lighting Design by Tauran Wood, Fight & Intimacy Direction by Brianna Johnston, Stage Management by Donna Sharpe, Ashley Rees, and Raynah Bourne.
This holiday season Desert Crown Theatre produced a festive and entertaining production of my stage adaption of A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens. A Christmas Carol is the ageless story of redemption where Ebenezer Scrooge having turned his back on love and his fellow man is visited by three Christmas spirits who teach him the error of his ways. In this fun and lively adaptation, you’ll still find all the ghosts of Christmas Past, Present, and Future along with Tiny Tim, Bob Cratchit, the Ghost of Jacob Marley, Old Fezziwig, Scrooge’s nephew Fred, and the love of Scrooge’s life, Belle. There are some scary bits, a few good laughs, a tender moment or two, and some surprises! It’s a fresh take on an old tale sure to thrill young and old alike.
Desert Crown Theatre is based in Vail, Arizona a small community of about 15,000 not too far from Tucson. Last year a group of Vail residents got together to start a new community theatre company in order to provide opportunities for youth to explore and experience the arts including drama. I sat down with Christine Ralston one of the founding members of Desert Crown Theatre and her husband Nate Ralston who is playing Scrooge this year to talk with them about Desert Crown Theatre and this year’s production of A Christmas Carol.
CHRISTINE RALSTON
I grew up in an extremely performance-oriented family. We played instruments, we did theatre, we did film, we did dance. It was really important to my parents to let us explore. Not all of us acted, not all of us sang, not all of us danced. I’m in the middle of seven siblings. There’s a lot of us. But they really wanted us to have an outlet.
All of our children are older teenagers or adults now but when they started going through middle and high school I was shocked when I found out there weren’t clubs with those types of activities available. And our schools are great schools it’s just after years of seeing no choir or drama club we decided to form Desert Crown Theatre.
I’m the director of youth programs so my passion is to do things like our summer camps and our hope is to provide kids and the community with an artistic outlet and to keep it at a low enough cost so that it’s not pricing children out. Because they might not ever try it otherwise, and we’ve already discovered some kids who are extremely talented and have really bright futures in performing who came to summer camp and who had never done anything before.
NATE RALSTON
I did some community theatre where I grew up. Even where I grew up, there was a community theatre. I didn’t start Desert Crown Theatre but I’m supportive of it because I had that opportunity as a youth. I was in three plays as a teenager. Crazy for You, Number the Stars, and Babes in Toyland. And I really liked it. I thought it was a lot of fun. And last year when we were doing A Christmas Carol I really liked the role of Marley. It seemed like it would be fun to be the mean and angry ghost. And this year I wanted the opportunity to try the main role and there are some challenges to it as well, but I enjoy that.
Nate Ralston as Scrooge, Raedin Ralston as Young Scrooge, Taylor Ralston as Niece Emma, Éowyn Ralston as Little Fan in A Christmas Carol at Desert Crown Theatre. Pete Mecozzi Photography
JAMES HUTCHISON
One of the fun things about this year’s show is your entire family is involved. Nate, you’re playing Scrooge. Christine, you’re the stage manager and also the Spirit of Christmas Yet to Come. You’ve got your son Raedin playing Young Scrooge and your daughters Krystin, Éowyn, and Evelynn are also part of the cast and Afton is helping backstage. So, this is the second year the entire Ralston family has been involved with the production of A Christmas Carol. What’s it like having the whole family working on the show and what are some of your family traditions you celebrate this time of year?
CHRISTINE
It’s great. It’s building a really fun memory this year, especially with our son playing young Scrooge opposite his dad’s Scrooge. It’s brilliant because he looks like him and can mimic him so well that it makes for a very believable character.
NATE
The difficulty is that whenever we stand next to each other I have to get on my tippy toes so it doesn’t look too odd because he’s a couple of inches taller than me.
CHRISTINE
It’s definitely building a new tradition for our family. And as far as our other family traditions, we don’t really have too many. I grew up in a family and we observed Hanukkah from my dad’s side, but we also did Christmas. And we still do both.
NATE
What we do for Hanukkah is celebrate with latkes and dreidel. And now that the kids are older dreidel has kind of passed by the wayside. We have some end-of-year traditions. There’s a place we walk to and see the Christmas lights. We have our traditions about how we celebrate Christmas on Christmas Eve and the way we have a Christmas Eve dinner and Christmas Day dinner.
CHRISTINE
And every year, at least one or two of us has participated in our church’s Christmas music program.
Michael Shaughnessy as The Ghost of Jacob Marley in the Desert Crown Theatre production of A Christmas Carol. Pete Mecozzi Photography
JAMES
Nate last year as you mentioned you played Jacob Marley and this year you’re playing Scrooge and the play deals with redemption and forgiveness. And I’m wondering how playing Scrooge, a man in desperate need of redemption and forgiveness, has made you think about those two aspects of life.
NATE
I have to be fully honest. I’m a religious man, and that’s a normal part of my life. It’s a daily part of my life; asking for forgiveness; looking for redemption. I believe that all men are sinners and have fallen short of the glory of God and the play focuses a lot on the idea of redemption. One of the lines in the show is Bob Cratchit telling his family what Tiny Tim had said in church earlier. And he had said that he hopes everybody can see him as a cripple so that they can remember who it was that made blind men see and lame men walk. A Christmas Carol without mentioning any names focuses quite a bit on Jesus Christ, and I think if I were to have a wish it would be that this show can help bring people closer to the saviour – to the redeemer. So, for me personally, this has not really added to or changed the way that I view forgiveness and redemption instead I guess I’d say it further strengthens my belief in it.
CHRISTINE
In the play, you can really see that the Cratchit family is a religious family. They read Psalms together when they’re in mourning and they go to Church and it shows that they have that connection and that faith that things are going to be okay, and they’re going to make it through. A Christmas Carol is a show that is all about finding hope. It’s not like redemption goes away at the end of your life. Even in your later years, it’s still attainable because it’s never too late for forgiveness or to change. I think that’s a good message that A Christmas Carol shares with everybody who comes to see it.
Nate Ralston as Scrooge, Christine Ralston as The Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come in A Christmas Carol at Desert Crown Theatre. Pete Mecozzi Photography
JAMES
I don’t think until Scrooge is pleading near the end of the play in the graveyard with the Ghost of Christmas Future and he asks for forgiveness that he has a chance for redemption.
CHRISTINE
The graveyard scene is really intense. Especially for us because it’s the two of us up there alone in the graveyard with the tombstone. And we play my character the Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come as a lady in full Victorian mourning with a veil. And Scrooge is asking for mercy. This man who at the beginning of the play would never have asked for something like that.
We really try to give that scene a bit of desperation. Nate ends up on the ground in full tears and is really desperate because he thinks that he can’t do anything and the spirit has turned her back on him and it’s a really powerful moment. Not only is he asking for mercy he is also realizing he has to ask for forgiveness. Mercy isn’t just given. Mercy needs to be earned as well.
That’s one of our favourite scenes especially because the following scene is so different. He has pledged that he’s going to change and he wakes up in his bedroom a completely new person. And I think that’s really symbolic.
JAMES
Every theatre company brings their own vision to the telling of the story. Tell me a little bit about the vision for this year’s production as you bring it to the stage.
CHRISTINE
Audiences come to A Christmas Carol for the atmosphere. There had been discussion of do we modernize this or do we change the time period. And the overall consensus was, no. People want to be transported back to a simpler time. People want a classic tale told in its own time which means gorgeous costumes. And we wanted to make our atmosphere immersive so the second you walk through the door we have a choir and they’re phenomenal singers in Victorian garb, and we have a Christmas tree auction set up, and we want our audience to walk in and be filled with the Christmas spirit. That’s kind of our goal with this show.
Nate Ralston as Scrooge and Porter Turner as Tiny Tim in A Christmas Carol at Desert Crown Theatre. Pete Mecozzi Photography
JAMES
When I was writing the play I wanted to create a scene that showed how Bob Cratchit is a really good dad and that he’s playful and there’s this wonderful humour and love in the family. And that’s the scene where we see the Cratchit family on Christmas day.
CHRISTINE
I think how you wrote it gives credit to Bob because despite the fact that he comes from this cold, harsh workplace and working for Scrooge he is able to leave that at his door when he comes home to his family. And so, you have this bubbly happy home and they’re playful and excited. Most portrayals don’t really put that in.
NATE
One of the difficult aspects of playing Scrooge is trying to figure out when he’s going to start having this change of heart because he’s super cold and angry, and then he goes on this journey and sees things in the past and it hurts him a little bit, but does it really make sense for that to be the thing that immediately changes his heart?
There’s got to be this gradual change and in the scene where Bob Cratchit and his family are celebrating Christmas and they’re so happy and it’s so much fun he sees what it’s like to have a happy home. I don’t think it makes any sense for Scrooge to start to feel any happiness unless he’s seen how happy Bob is with his family. So, one of the things that I try to show is how the happiness Bob is experiencing with his family is having an effect on Scrooge.
Sierra Turner as Mrs. Cratchit and Porter Turner as Tiny Tim in the Desert Crown Theatre Production of A Christmas Carol. Pete Mecozzi Photography
JAMES
One of the other things I have in my version of the play is that Mrs. Cratchit actually does get to give Scrooge a piece of her mind. That’s something she says she’d like to do in the book, but she never gets the chance.
CHRISTINE
Oh, absolutely. And our Mrs. Cratchit plays it so beautifully. She is a sweet and loving mother and she’s so kind and when she stands up for Bob in the street scene on Christmas Day, she does give Scrooge a piece of her mind because she’s a woman of her word. And then of course, Scrooge immediately triples Bob’s salary and she’s taken aback. I think sometimes Mrs. Cratchit gets left behind. So, it’s nice to let her have a moment.
I actually had the actress ask me, what’s her first name? And I said, go read the book. She doesn’t have one. Because it was written that way. In the book, she was just Mrs. Cratchit. And one of the things we have hidden on stage is an original edition of Charles Dickens’s A Christmas Carol.
JAMES
So, maybe the spirit of Charles Dickens might be there to help you guys out.
CHRISTINE
That’s what I think. This book is from the eighteen-hundreds and it’s on our set and the audience doesn’t know it, but we know it. And we’ve got a cast of about 45 people, 20 of which are children. And it helps our board to see that so many people believe in us and support us. And when you have a large cast they bring more people to the theatre and I really stress to the cast as much as I can that you don’t know who you’re going to inspire, whether it’s an audience of 30 or 300 or 3000, you don’t know who you might inspire out there.
We had a little girl show up to auditions with her dad, who we’ve known for a few years and we convinced him to come in and read and guess who’s playing Fezziwig. He did not expect to audition. He had never done this sort of thing before and we just said to give it a go. And it turned out he had a talent for it and he had just never put himself out there. And he is having so much fun and doing the show with his daughters. His one teenage daughter is the assistant stage manager and the little one is playing Ignorance. And it’s just been so much fun to have that many people involved.
Anna Dalgleish and Caleb Gordon in the Rosebud Theatre Production of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe by C.S. Lewis. Adapted for the stage by Ron Reed and Directed by Morris Ertman.
This holiday season Rosebud Theatre is taking audiences on a magical journey back to Narnia in a fun and family-friendly stage adaptation of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe by C.S. Lewis.
In the original story Peter, Susan, Edmund, and Lucy Pevensie are four children who have been evacuated to the countryside from London during the early days of World War II. The children soon discover a wardrobe in their new home that leads them to the magical land of Narnia. Narnia is locked in a forever winter but never Christmas spell by the White Witch who rules over the land. The story revolves around the promise of spring and end of the Witch’s rule that is prophesized when two sons of Adam and two daughters of Eve mark the return of Aslan the lion who is the rightful King of Narnia.
In Ron Reed’s stage adaptation Lucy and Peter return to the wardrobe as adults many years later and relive their adventures in the land of Narnia when they were children. The production is directed by Morris Ertman and stars Anna Dalgleish and Caleb Gordon who play Lucy and Peter as well as all the other characters in the story including Aslan, the White Witch, Mr. and Mrs. Beaver, Father Christmas, and Mr. Tumnus.
I was lucky enough to catch the opening weekend of the play and experience a terrific production that reminds all of us about the joy and imagination of childhood while bringing a beloved story to life. I sat down with the talented stars of the show, Anna and Caleb, to talk with them about the production, their love of theatre, and what they want for Christmas.
ANNA DALGLEISH
For a long time, I’ve been seriously looking at adopting cats and I get an early Christmas gift this weekend. I get to adopt two little kittens and I’m very excited about that. So, Christmas comes early for me. It starts this week.
CALEB GORDON
The last time we did this show I was involved as an assistant stage manager and the gift shop sells Turkish Delight. I never thought I would like Turkish Delight, but I had a bag of their stuff, and I liked it so much that I bought them out. So, let me just hawk for the gift shop. Ten dollars a bag. It’s very tasty. Turkish Delight is my answer.
JAMES HUTCHISON
I’m curious, when did each of you discover your love of theatre and what was it about that experience or moment in time that stirred your soul?
ANNA
Well, I have a very special story that goes along with this because the very first time I saw a play, it was a two-hander version of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. Pacific Theater had put on a show very similar to this one, but it was a different adaptation. I had never seen a play before. I was a four-year-old, so it was all magic to me.
And then when I was six years old the second show I ever saw was also The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. And that was when I fell in love with theatre because I have very strong memories of that. By this point I was an avid reader and already quite an imaginative kid and to see something playing out in real life embodied by people right in front of my very eyes who were profoundly affecting my emotions and whose story I was following along with captivated me. And so, my love of theatre is all tied to this story, and I was very keen to do the show when the chance came around.
Anna Dalgleish and Caleb Gordon in the Rosebud Theatre Production of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe by C.S. Lewis. Adapted for the stage by Ron Reed and Directed by Morris Ertman.
JAMES
What about you, Caleb?
CALEB
I went into theatre when I was in grade nine, and I was very good at it. And I say good at it because I could memorize things very well, but I had no idea about emotions or that maybe I should use them on stage.
And I remember when I had just turned eighteen sitting down and having a really big conversation with myself. I had gone to a summer drama camp, and they had talked about the presence of the fool in a lot of Shakespeare’s plays. And I hated being a fool. I hated not being in control was the real thing. And I remember thinking, maybe that’s not healthy and maybe I should look into that.
And so, I did. I decided, let’s do all the things I’ve never done before. Let’s be the fool. Let’s be okay with being a fool because what we had talked about in summer school was how fools are the only ones who are comfortable in chaos and limbo. Everything and everybody else gets turned upside down, but the fools are the ones who are suddenly the guides and the way keepers in those situations. And I thought, “Wow, that sounds infinitely better than been tossed around and lost at sea and not actually knowing where I’m going.” And so, I would say from that moment onwards is where my love of theatre was truly ignited.
JAMES
Your love of theatre brought you to the Rosebud School of the Arts. Both of you are graduates. So, tell me about your relationship with Rosebud and how you feel it has helped shape you as artists.
ANNA
There’s something so intense about forming an artistic voice in such an immersive education environment. Rosebud is basically a street that crosses another street and when you dip down into the valley it’s like you’re fully immersed in theatre and in your studies. And at times that was incredibly intense and sometimes even overwhelming. But at the end of the day, I think that the immersion into the world of theatre that exists at Rosebud is what has made me such a holistic theatre person and so willing to dive into the deep end every time I get a chance to do something theatrical.
CALEB
I know that when I came to Rosebud, I used to be quite a people pleaser and I would always defer to other people and their needs, but Rosebud was small enough that I couldn’t do that anymore. Instead, I had to actually take the stage and when the light was shone on me I had to step into it. Rosebud is where I started to listen to my own voice as opposed to the voices of others and that was very helpful for me in realizing who I was. Rosebud is a place where when you graduate you are your own artist with your own voice.
JAMES
Did you find the same Anna, that you discovered your individuality as an artist when you were in Rosebud?
ANNA
Absolutely. We were all so different from one another and that’s a comforting feeling when you’re at an audition because auditions are always nerve-wracking. They’re going to see sixty people today and how in the world am I going to stand out? But my training here taught me that it is not about outshining, it’s about bringing what only you have to offer to the audition.
And then at the end of the day, if that’s a fit for the show, fantastic. If it’s not a fit for the show, it’s not because you’re a bad actor, it’s because you have shown them what you have to offer and they’re going with someone who has a different thing to offer. So, you never have to pretend to be someone you’re not. You just have to bring your unique gift. And I think that Rosebud grads are encouraged to have that sense of self and that sense of individuality and to put their own quirky stamp on who they are and what they bring.
Anna Dalgleish and Caleb Gordon in the Rosebud Theatre Production of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe by C.S. Lewis. Adapted for the stage by Ron Reed and Directed by Morris Ertman.
JAMES
There’s a famous quote by George Bernard Shaw. “We don’t stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing.” And I think that’s an interesting idea when we look at this particular adaptation of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe because Lucy and Peter are adults and they’re remembering their childhood adventures.
CALEB
One of my favourite parts of this show is when Aslan comes back and we just play tag for a few moments. The exuberance that I feel in that moment not only from myself but from the audience as well is so exciting. Who would’ve thought that watching two people run around on a stage playing tag was exciting? And yet it is. Even today, we just came out of a show and oh goodness, people were excited and chattering, and all I’m doing is running around on stage out of breath.
And I think I have a sense of play. I play a lot of video games and tabletop games and that sort of thing, but I’m realizing just how much a sense of play is actually something to be celebrated because it’s not that people don’t have a sense of play it’s that people can’t express it fully because they’ve been told that’s a thing that you leave as a child and now that you’re older you have responsibilities. You can have responsibility, but you can do it with a wink in the eye and a sense of play.
ANNA
This question makes me think of the dedication in the novel that C.S. Lewis wrote to his goddaughter who was named Lucy. And he says something like this, by the time I’m finished writing this book, you may have grown out of fairy tales but there will come a day – one day where you’re old enough to read fairy tales again, and I hope this book will find you then.
And I think that’s true of the characters in the story. I think Peter and Lucy are far enough away from their adventures as children and are far enough into their lives in England as adults where they need to remember how to read fairy tales and how to play again. And I think it is that sense of play and embracing that childhood belief and courage and adventure that brings a taste of that Narnian magic back to them in the present moment.
CALEB
And in this play, at one point I’m Peter playing Edmond watching Lucy play the Witch Queen and she levitates her wand. And the wand does levitate because a Narnian is holding it up for her. And there’s that moment where Peter’s thinking, “Did I just see that? Is that what’s really going on right now?” And those moments in our adulthood are just a trick of the light but as a child those moments are not a trick of the light they really happen.
ANNA
That’s another magical thing that is brought to life in this particular production because even though we have two primary storytellers we have two other actors Christopher Allen and Lacey Cornelsen involved in the process. We start out in this dusty old room and because of these two other actors the whole room bursts with magic and the involvement of these two Narnian characters makes you really believe that the magic has come back.
Anna Dalgleish, Caleb Gordon, Christopher Allen and Lacey Cornelsen in the Rosebud Theatre Production of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe by C.S. Lewis. Adapted for the stage by Ron Reed and Directed by Morris Ertman.
JAMES
When Lucy and Peter first discovered Narnia, it’s a land of perpetual winter and never Christmas. In fact, the White Witch’s magic keeps Father Christmas from being able to visit Narnia. And the story is about the arrival of Aslan and the breaking of that spell. And the story takes place in England during World War II and it’s about living through tough times with a vision of better times in the future. What is it about Christmas do you think that renews our hopes for a more compassionate and better world?
ANNA
I think for one thing winter is a very desolate time and if it goes on for too long you begin to wonder if we are ever going to see tulips again or crocus again or all these beautiful springtime miracles. And I think that Christmas is representative of that miraculous life springing forth.
And I know that for C.S. Lewis a ton of his interest and passion was in the Christ story and of course that’s remembered at Christmas time where out of nowhere a miracle is born that turns the whole world upside down. And I think, in this story Father Christmas who comes in with this boisterous energy and gifts galore represents the turning point. And he comes with the good news that Aslan is in fact here and the balance of power is shifting, and the melt will come and you will have what you need to be prepared for the coming world.
CALEB
I remember being very young and thinking Christmas is about getting presents and it’s all about getting the Fisher-Price Knights and Castle set or whatever it was that I really wanted. And then of course you go through a little bit more and you realize, ok, maybe it’s actually more about getting socks and more about the people that I spend it with.
And I have always enjoyed the Christmases that I’ve experienced in Rosebud. I worked in the Mercantile for quite a few years while I was a student, and I remember having so many good memories of the place. Closing down and we’ve sent all the patrons home and it’s dark and there’s just a little bit of excitement because even though it’s cold outside and it’s freezing and Kevin’s car won’t start we know that we have a community out here in the middle of nowhere who gather and find warmth with each other’s kindness.
And I remember thinking in the early days of COVID that we might never have theatre again. I tried a few ZOOM readings where I read Shakespeare with a bunch of other players to an audience and it just does not feel the same. There’s no life through the digital ether, unfortunately. I think technology is great but realizing it’s never going to bridge that gap like real live theatre can was very worrisome.
So, it’s reassuring to come out of it now and I’m dealing with a cold but instead of saying sorry everybody I have a cold and you’re just going to have to deal with that I can say sorry everyone I’m going to be masked up for the next little while because I don’t want to spread that to everybody. COVID brought a lot of realities to the forefront. Theatre is a precarious career at times. It’s precarious and it’s a gift to be able to be in front of people and I should take care of myself and others while I do it.
Anna Dalgleish and Caleb Gordon in the Rosebud Theatre Production of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe by C.S. Lewis. Adapted for the stage by Ron Reed and Directed by Morris Ertman.
ANNA
Theatre artists have always been adaptive and the fact that it’s a live art means that at any moment anything can happen and you have to adapt to it. We’ve always been good at that. But I think COVID taught us on an industry scale, just how flexible we can be and how creative we can be about solutions.
And I think bringing all of that adaptation and creativity back into the theatre when audiences have been allowed to return, has made us care for each other better and has made us even more grateful for the gift that is being inches away from your scene partner and being just feet away from the audience.
There’s nothing like a full theatre of well-fed, excited individuals ready to watch a show and Rosebud does that unlike anyone else. It’s been a glorious and joy-filled homecoming, these returns to full audiences. And now I think none of us take it for granted. So, there’s extra magic in that for sure.
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The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe by C.S. Lewis adapted for the stage by Ron Reed stars Anna Dalgleish as Lucy and Caleb Gordon as Peter along with Christopher Allan and Lacey Cornelsen as Narnians. Director Morris Ertman, Fight Director Nathan Schmidt, Scenic Designer Morris Ertman, Costume Designer Hanne Loosen, Lighting Designer Michael K. Hewitt, Sound Designer/Composer Luke Ertman, Stage Manager Samantha Showalter, Assistant Stage Manager Koayla Cormack.
This interview was conducted on Friday, November 11, 2022, and has been edited for length and clarity. Last Revised on December 22, 2022.
Tara Laberge as Emily Murphy in the Drama on a Dime and Urban Stories Theatre Production of High and Splendid Braveries by playwright Caroline Russell-King. Photograph by Benjamin Laird.
Playwright Caroline Russell-King has been writing plays and entertaining audiences for more than forty years. Her Palliser Suite trilogy of one-act comedies which all take place at the Palliser Hotel in Calgary was shortlisted for the National Steven Leacock Award for humour. Her play Selma Burke, which she co-wrote with Maria Crooks, and is about the life and work of African American sculptress Selma Burke was shortlisted for this year’s Sharon Pollock Award. And her most recent play High and Splendid Braveries explores addiction, women’s rights, and prohibition all told through the life and times of Emily Murphy one of The Famous Five. Not only is Caroline a gifted playwright but she’s also a dramaturg, theatre critic, and ghostwriter. You can find out more information about her plays and professional services by visiting her website at www.carolinerusselking.com.
I saw High and Splendid Braveries a few nights ago in The Motel at the Arts Commons and I’m happy to report that it’s a play filled with wonderful moments – funny, tragic, heartbreaking, and triumphant all brought to life by a powerful script and a terrific cast of five actors playing multiple roles. The Famous Five were five Alberta women who lead the fight to have Canadian women recognized constitutionally as persons. Emily Murphy led the battle and was supported by Irene Parlby, Louise McKinney, Henrietta Muir Edwards, and Nellie McClung. Their case was rejected by The Supreme Court of Canada in 1928, but the Judicial Committee of the British Privy Council, which was the highest court in the land at the time, decided in favour of the women on October 18, 1929.
I sat down with Caroline to talk with her about High and Splendid Braveries and the journey the play took to go from page to stage.
JAMES HUTCHISON
Initially, you wanted to write a play about The Famous Five but felt that a two-hour play simply couldn’t capture the lives of all these women, and you found that one voice above the others began to speak to you. Tell me about that process and the years it took to go from your original inspiration to a finished play.
CAROLINE RUSSELL-KING
Well, the truth of the matter is that I didn’t know anything about them. I was woefully ignorant. And so, I was reading an article in Avenue magazine, and it was about the first unveiling of the statues of The Famous Five in Calgary, and I thought, “Oh, that’s interesting.” And in the back of my head I thought, “Oh, that’s a good Alberta Foundation for the Arts grant because it’s about women’s history, and somebody will fund me to write a play about that.” And then I started researching these women and I started falling in love with these women and being awestruck by these women and being completely swayed by them.
The Women are Persons! statue in Calgary honouring The Famous Five. Sculpted by Barbara Paterson. Photo courtesy of Frances Wright.
So, I did a lot of research. I read their books, and I went to Ottawa and put on the white gloves and looked at the original correspondence in the archives, and I had some copies of that sent to me. I did interviews with people including Frances Wright who’s the CEO of The Famous 5 Foundation, and my mother-in-law Angela Matthews was a contributor and supporter of The Famous Five, and I’m not sure exactly how it happened, but I got invited to the inner circle and unveiling of The Famous Five Statues on Parliament Hill. So, I got to meet The Prime Minister, Jean Chretien, and go into the Senate and meet the senators and have cocktails with Margaret Trudeau. And that was interesting because that’s where I first started thinking about loss. There were lots of activities going on at the time, and I fell down that whole rabbit hole of research, and then I started writing the play.
And the play was too much. There were too many storylines and too many parts. And I thought I can’t write about The Famous Five. I have to focus on one. So, the one I was most attracted to was Emily, and a lot of people have written about Nellie. There are a lot of Nellie plays out there. But I thought of Emily because she was literally the driving force behind getting this thing done.
People think the story is about women wanting to become persons. Well, we already knew we were persons. So, what did Emily really want? I followed that thread, and I read her book, The Black Candle, which was the first seminal book of research at the turn of the 20th century about opioids in Canada.
She went into drug dens and interviewed people and tried to make systemic change and tried to save lives. She was exposed to the idea of harm reduction. We think of harm reduction as being a new thing, but it isn’t. She would have been appalled at the closing of safe injection sites. She was really ahead of her time in a lot of ways. She was trying to save lives and stop the flow of opium. She was amazing. She was a neat broad. I liked her a lot.
Ginette Simonot as Princess Poppy with Martina Laird-Westib and Shannon Leahy in the Drama on a Dime and Urban Stories Theatre production of High and Splendid Braveries by playwright Caroline Russell-King. Photo by Benjamin Laird
JAMES
You said in the introduction to your play that she whispered to you in the night.
CAROLINE
You know what it’s like. You’re a playwright. You know what they do. They wake you up and they start talking to you and then you have to grab a pen and start writing it down.
JAMES
It makes our job easier.
CAROLINE
It does.
JAMES
The play features five actors portraying multiple characters, and the play is very fluid in terms of moving between locations. And I think it’s very cinematic with short scenes, but you can follow the major narrative quite easily. Tell me about the team of people you’ve gathered together to bring High and Splendid Braveries to the stage and to life.
CAROLINE
I have my very good friend Elizabeth Stepkowski Tarhan directing the play. She’s a fairly new director, but she has a huge wealth of theatrical experience. She’s worked all over Canada in A houses with the best directors, and she brings with her this huge wealth and passion and rigour and care.
Director Elizabeth Stepkowski Tarhan and the cast of High and Splendid Braveries by playwright Caroline Russell-King in rehearsal.
And I wanted to do it in the Arts Commons. That was important to me. I’d heard a rumour, and I don’t know if it’s true, but I’d heard a rumour that the land opposite the Arts Commons is going to be repurposed and that there was some threat that The Famous Five statues might actually be moved away from there. And I thought, “I have to do my play before the statues get moved.” So, I wanted a theatre in close proximity to the statues, and the simplest and easiest way to make that happen in six months was to co-produce the play with Urban Stories Theatre and Helen Young, who has been producing shows in the Motel for ten years.
The cast includes my really good friend Allison Smith, whom I’ve known for forty years, and she played a pregnant clown in one of my first plays at The Glenmore Dinner Theatre. She doesn’t like to talk about that. (Laughs) So, Alison Smith and Martina Laird-Westib, Shannon Leahy, and Tara Laberge. I had seen Tara Laberge in a Fire Exit show, and I was really impressed by her work. And we have Ginette Simonot. She’s a rock star.
Playwright Caroline Russell-King in rehearsal for High and Splendid Braveries.
I couldn’t afford to put this show on with a full equity slate, so these are some of the best non-equity actors in town and what’s great about being a theatre critic is I’ve gone to a lot more theatre and seen a lot more people, and I’m always scanning for who’s out there and who is going to be somebody that I want to work with in the future. That’s how we got Tara Laberge, and then because of COVID we have an understudy – the lovely Tara Blue.
JAMES
One of the things I really liked about the play is that you let your characters speak from their particular perspective and the time in which they lived. So, we have characters voicing opinions and ideas that today we wouldn’t agree with but as an audience in 2022 we recognize the ideas as being out of step with how we think today. So, I’m curious to know your thoughts in terms of trying to be fair in presenting how these characters thought and still designing the play to reflect our modern views about some of the ideas you present.
CAROLINE
Well, it’s a conundrum, and it’s interesting because there’s been a shift towards taking those attitudes out of plays. I saw a play in the past year that was a historic piece that spoke so eloquently and so vocally about everything, but they wouldn’t have spoken like that at the time. They wouldn’t have said that. This voice is the voice of the playwright who wants to apologize for these characters. And because you’re a playwright you understand we want our characters to be flawed. We don’t want these perfect people doing perfect things in perfect situations with no conflict. That’s boring and unrealistic.
And The Famous Five, as they’ve come to be known, the more they get scrutinized under the microscope the more flawed they seem to people, and then people concentrate on those flaws as opposed to acknowledging the incredible amount of worth that happened because of these women. They literally changed the world.
I believe the audience is smart. I don’t like the term bums in seats. I like the term brains in seats. I think sometimes playwrights want to make things safe and spell stuff out or be superior in some ways, but I think the audience is bright and there are always going to be people in the audience that are smarter than I am.
JAMES
Do you think sometimes playwrights don’t want to be taken to task by presenting a controversial idea?
CAROLINE
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. But you know it’s not my personality to shy away from controversy. I always say one of my worst flaws and one of my best flaws is that I’m not a people pleaser. That being said, I would like people to enjoy my art, but I don’t write thinking about pleasing certain people or certain elements of our society. That’s not where I come from.
I think we need to talk about the issues more, and I think we need to get out of our silos and talk about the things that matter. We need to build bridges. We need to be able to communicate with each other. I mean, the issue of drug addiction – how is that not bipartisan? How is it that not everybody wants to address poverty and healthcare? What kind of world are we trying to build? It’s scary when we can’t talk to each other.
JAMES
One of the things that makes your story real is that you deal with loss. Emily’s personal loss. Could you speak a little bit about including that in the play?
CAROLINE
That actually came out of talking to Margaret Trudeau because I thought there’s a woman I have nothing in common with. We’ve got our little sandwiches and our drinks, and her life and my life are completely different. But she had this enamel pin on which was a rose for her late husband, and she had lost her son. And we started talking about grief. And I thought, well, that is the universal thing that joins us all together. The older we get the more we’ve encountered loss and grief and I immediately started thinking about Emily and thinking about what the loss of a child would have been like for her. I think personally there is no greater loss than the loss of a child. A spouse is hideous, brothers and sisters are hideous, and parents are bad, but they come in order. You’re a father, you know. How would you come back from that, right? That should be another bipartisan thing. Who doesn’t care about that?
Tara Laberge as Emily and Ginette Simonot as Doris in the Drama on a Dime and Urban Stories Theatre Production of High and Splendid Braveries by playwright Caroline Russell-King. Photo by Benjamin Laird.
JAMES
I’ve seen you on social media where you do a thing called Pop Up Playwright. On your website you say, “Pop Up Playwright is about creating art in public spaces. Playwrights are generally not visible. Actors are visible. Directors are. Playwrights not so much. I think we need to come out of our offices and move away from the kitchen tables and go out. Much like painters, we need to set up our easels and create in public.” Tell me about the decision to create Pop Up Playwright and what it’s been like to create art in public.
CAROLINE
Oh, it’s fascinating. It’s been a great social experiment. I’ve done Pop Up Playwright in hospitals, airports, downtown, at City Hall, libraries, and once on the street. I have my Pop Up Playwright sign I put up, but I also put up a little plexiglass sign that will say something like, “Ask me questions about plays. Feel free to interrupt me.” I invite interactions with people.
It’s very strange because you’re regarded overwhelmingly with such suspicion and one of the things that I get asked all the time is, “What are you selling?” And while I am a dramaturg, I’m not out there trying to drum up business. It’s about having discussions about theatre with people who might not even go to theatre. I love talking to people about so many things and having people come over and ask, “What are you working on?” And I can say, “I’m writing this scene. I don’t think it’s very good right now, but I think I know how to fix it.”
Allison Smith as Arthur and Tara Laberge as Emily in the Drama on a Dime and Urban Stories Theatre Production of High and Splendid Braveries by playwright Caroline Russell-King. Photo by Benjamin Laird.
JAMES
So, now that the play is finished and it’s being produced what does Emily Murphy, the Emily Murphy who spoke to you in the middle of the night and whispered in your ear, what does she think of the play, and what do you hope comes out of this?
CAROLINE
At the moment she would channel Nellie McClung and say, “Get the thing done and let them howl.” The big dream would be to have it produced at the 100th anniversary of the Persons Case, which is in 2029. I’d like to get it on at the NAC, so I’d like the play to have a bigger profile. I think that’s the only time producers would consider putting it on at that level.
But the most important thing is that people come away from the play having had an entertaining night at the theatre. That they haven’t been lectured to. It’s not an infomercial. It’s not a heritage moment. It’s not a quaint little story about Little House on the Prairie women trying to do their thing. These are real women. These are flawed women. These are women who are fighters.
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CAST & CREW
On a Dime Productions and Urban Stories Theatre presents High and Splendid Braveries by playwright Caroline Russell-King stars Tara Laberge, Allison Smith, Martina Laird-Westib, Ginette Simonot, Shannon Leahy, Tara Blue. Co-producers Helen Young & Caroline Russell-King, Director Elizabeth Stepkowski Tarhan, Stage Manager Andrea Cortes, Assistant Stage Manager Mary Bogucka, Assistant to the director and original music AJ Tarhan, Cello Morag Northey, Lighting Concepts Elizabeth Stepkowski Tarhan, Lighting Designer Calum Maunier, Lighting Tech Support Kai Hall.
Nathan Schmidt and Griffin Cork in the Rosebud Theatre production of Stones in His Pockets by Marie Jones. Director Morris Ertman, Scenic Designer Hanne Loosen, Costume Designer Amy Castro, Lighting Designer Becky Halterman, Sound Designer/Composer Luke Ertman.
Rosebud Theatre’s production of Stones in His Pockets by Marie Jones is a highly entertaining and wonderfully crafted production. The play is designed so that two actors portray fifteen different characters. The story focuses on Jake Quinn and Charlie Conlon who have been hired as extras along with plenty of other town folk by a big Hollywood Studio that’s shooting on location in Ireland. Jake and Charlie are down on their luck, but Charlie has a screenplay that he feels could turn their fortunes around if he could get it into the hands of the right people.
The play stars Nathan Schmidt as Jake Quinn, Griffin Cork as Charlie Conlon, and is directed by Morris Ertman. Some of the other characters portrayed by Nathan and Griffin include Caroline Giovanni the American star of the film, Clem the film’s English director, Sean and Fin a couple of young lads from town, and Mickey a local in his seventies whose claim to fame is being one of the few surviving extras on the 1952 film The Quiet Man starring John Wayne.
Stones in His Pockets premiered at the Lyric Theatre in Belfast in 1996, and when it was produced at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival in 1999 it became a huge hit. From the Fringe the play moved to the West End in London where in 2001 it won the Olivier Award for Best New Comedy and the Olivier Award for Best Actor for Conleth Hill who many people may know better as Varys in the HBO Fantasy series Game of Thrones. From the West End the show travelled to New York for a successful Broadway run and since then has been performed by regional theatres throughout the world.
I was lucky enough to catch the opening night production of Stones in His Pockets and I had a thoroughly enjoyable, entertaining, and fun evening at the theatre. I sat down with the stars of the show Nathan Schmidt and Griffin Cork to talk with them about the play and we started our conversation by talking about the magic of the theatre and what that word means to them.
NATHAN SCHMIDT
I guess what people mean by magic is something unbelievable that happens right in front of them. And then coming to the theatre you experience the emotions of the story, and it all seems ethereal and magical, and all of a sudden you’re taken up in a story and carried along by the cast or a certain kind of music or the way the lighting cues hit, and it hooks everything up for you, and you become a part of this group of people as the audience experiencing the show. And it’s such a unique kind of experience that you don’t have very often. I think that’s part of what the magic is.
GRIFFIN CORK
I always relate it back to my grandmother a little bit. I always describe her as the ideal audience because she says her perfect show is one that makes her forget about her shopping list. And she likes to think that the story is being told for her only. That it’s her bedtime story is the way she puts it.
And to me, the magic of theatre is that it makes you believe the story. You start to care about that guy on stage and it’s the punch through of that suspension of disbelief. So, in this day and age, if you can make my grandmother forget about her shopping list, I think that’s pretty magical.
JAMES HUTCHISON
Well, I mentioned magic and we often see magic between actors, they have chemistry, they play well off each other. And I can definitely say after seeing the show last week that you guys have great chemistry. This is a two-person show where you’re playing multiple characters. So being in sync is absolutely essential. How much of that chemistry between the two of you was there naturally and how much of it is something that you work on through the process of rehearsal and the performance of the play?
GRIFFIN
I did my audition with Nate which gave our director Morris Ertman and us a pretty good idea about how well we naturally play off each other. And when we did the first read our set designer Hanne Loosen came up to me and said, “Have you read that with Nate before?” And I said, “No, not all the way through.” And she said, “Oh, yeah, you guys are just pinging off each other.” So, there was already bedrock there and I think our sensibilities and our senses of humour line up pretty well.
I don’t know that I ever actively worked on chemistry with Nate, but when you spend forty-five hours a week together you get to know somebody pretty well. And I think I also formed a rapport with our director Morris, and our stage manager Kalena, and our production stage manager Brad, but the audience doesn’t see that rapport because its not on stage. It’s kind of what rehearsal is for in a sense – to build chemistry with the people you haven’t worked with before.
Griffin Cork and Nathan Schmidt in the Rosebud Theatre production of Stones in His Pockets by Marie Jones. Director Morris Ertman, Scenic Designer Hanne Loosen, Costume Designer Amy Castro, Lighting Designer Becky Halterman, Sound Designer/Composer Luke Ertman.
NATHAN
I think it was a John Cusack quote that said one of the skills the actor has is to develop a shorthand for deep relationships. So, it’s actually part of the skill set to be able to speak to each other with a depth of understanding that you maybe don’t actually own but that is actually there because of the trust you have for each other and because of the type of work that we do. We put ourselves in the other person’s hands. And for sure, there are some people you connect with more quickly. Griffin’s quite a bit younger, but we have similar sensibilities. So, I think that chemistry while some of it’s about the people I also think part of it is the skill set to go deep with people quickly.
JAMES
The play takes place in County Kerry, Ireland and the local town is being used as the location for a big Hollywood movie, and the locals are being used as extras. Tell me a little bit about this world, and the world of the play.
NATHAN
It’s really a town that’s lost so much of what made it a town, and people are hanging on there and staying because it is their hometown. So, we have Mr. Harkin selling his land – selling off a lot of his son Sean’s birthright – just to make ends meet because of an economic downturn in the local economy. That’s pretty relatable. And people have that small-town feeling of there’s nothing here for me. There’s no future for me. I have nothing to hope for. The older people are upset by that. They’re hanging on because this is where they’re from and there’s pride in that. The young people don’t see a place to connect and find a life. And then this movie comes and injects all this money into the economy because of the scenery and the beauty of the land and the forty shades of green but it’s just a location to them nothing more.
GRIFFIN
The play is full of harsh dichotomies. There are the people in the town, and then people who have come to the town for the film, the film crew. And even in those groups, there are dichotomies. The townspeople either love the movie or hate the movie. And then in the film, there are people who love Kerry and people who hate Kerry. And then the way that they shoot films is terrible. They dig up the landscape, and they over-inflate the economy, and they work the people to death, and then they leave without any regard really. So, for me, the whole show is about seeing people teeter-totter between the two sides. And I would say the play is exploring the nature of success. Like, what is success? Is it to be famous? Or is it to make a living in the place that you love?
JAMES
The show’s being performed in Rosebud. A hamlet an hour or so drive east of Calgary, not far from Drumheller. And I was hoping each of you could speak a little bit about your unique relationship with Rosebud. Nathan, you’re not only an actor in the show, but you head up the Rosebud School of Theatre’s acting department and make your home in the community.
NATHAN
I grew up in rural Alberta farther north. There was no theatre. Nobody went to the theatre. My family never went to the theatre. It just wasn’t part of the culture that I was in. But our school went to the Citadel Theatre in Edmonton every year. We’d go to a play, and I just thought it was the coolest thing.
And I kind of came to the awareness that it was actually a job that people did. There was a moment where I was like, “Wait a minute, that’s a job. That’s work. They’re at work. That looks like pretty cool work to me.” Everybody was saying, “Oh, you go to a university, and you get your career.” And I’m like, “But those people are doing theatre for a job. That’s pretty great, right?”
So, Rosebud came right along on the heels of those realizations, and it ended up being a place where I could stay connected to theatre and the whole town’s economy is based around doing theatre. And I really enjoyed doing the acting, but I also get to teach, and when I teach I’m constantly redefining and re-articulating and reworking how I work and how I engage story, and so Rosebud became a place to put down roots.
GRIFFIN
I think Rosebud is fantastic. There will always be a city boy inside of me that I can’t shake. But Rosebud is kind of idyllic in the sense of what you would picture a small town should be. Bill Ham the music director here at Rosebud also fixes bikes, and he fixed my bike in his garage. He didn’t train for it or anything he just liked watching videos and figuring out how to fix bikes. And we sat in his garage, and he fixed my bike, and I said, “Great, what do I owe you?” And he goes, “No, no, no.” And I said, “You fixed my bike and if I was in the city, I would pay the bike fixer.” And he said, “No, don’t ruin this.” And I went, “Okay.” So, I had to ask his daughter, who is my landlord, what he likes, and she told me, and so I bought him a big bag of Chicago mix popcorn. It’s that kind of community.
Griffin Cork and Nathan Schmidt in the Rosebud Theatre production of Stones in His Pockets by Marie Jones. Director Morris Ertman, Scenic Designer Hanne Loosen, Costume Designer Amy Castro, Lighting Designer Becky Halterman, Sound Designer/Composer Luke Ertman.
JAMES
So, the play takes place in Ireland and there’s the phrase “the luck of the Irish.” And that can mean that the Irish are inherently lucky, or it can mean that even though the Irish have had some hard luck they’ve overcome those hardships and gone on. How do you think the idea of luck relates to the story of Stones in His Pockets and what happens in the play and then second looking back on your own lives and careers what role do you think luck plays in our lives – how much of an influence do you think luck has on our path through this world?
GRIFFIN
I like exploring the idea of luck – especially through Charlie’s story. Charlie’s not lacking in ambition or initiative, but something switched for him when he partners up with Jake and they start to talk about doing a film about cows. His outcome hope is different. Before his ambition and initiative were leading to something more superficial. Getting to be famous, not working too hard, and getting to be rich. The cow film they talk about making is something they honestly believe in and a story they believe needs to be told.
NATHAN
When Charlie gets an opportunity with his script, he’s so used to not having anything good happen he says, “I knew no one would look at it. I knew no one would ever read it.” I think luck comes when we’ve got eyes enough to see the opportunity and know that we should grab hold of it and do it. And in hindsight, we call it luck. Well, isn’t it lucky that showed up when it did. But it actually was, I had enough awareness to step into my own agency and follow that path.
GRIFFIN
And I think luck has quite a bit to do with our industry but there are also things that you can do to prepare for a lucky break, and I think luck and opportunity are wasted without initiative and ambition.
NATHAN
I don’t have a rabbit’s foot and I don’t rub anything for luck. I don’t pay much attention to luck. But I do think it’s lucky that I found this place from the question you asked before. I wouldn’t have known about Rosebud but somebody that I’d gone to school with came over and I never had friends over because I was a bit of a loner and they came over to visit and said, “Oh, I heard about this place Rosebud,…” and this is right at the time when I was thinking about theatre as a future. “Oh, it’s a little theatre town in southern Alberta where they teach theatre.” And I was like, “Okay, I’ll try that.” And that was it. You can say, “Well, isn’t that lucky she came for a visit.” Or was it lucky that I said, “I’ll try that.” I don’t know. But I do feel lucky, I guess.
Griffin cork and Nathan Schmidt in the Rosebud Theatre production of Stones in His Pockets by Marie Jones. Director Morris Ertman, Scenic Designer Hanne Loosen, Costume Designer Amy Castro, Lighting Designer Becky Halterman, Sound Designer/Composer Luke Ertman.
JAMES
Well, we’re coming out of COVID and it’s good to see live theatre up and running again and if people are looking at heading back to the theatre why should they head out to Rosebud to see this production of Stones in His Pockets?
NATHAN
We just had 170 people in the house today and they had a ball. This show is a good time and people are enjoying themselves. And I always think the drive out here is part of the whole experience. I think there’s something really connecting and nostalgic about the trip out here and then you get to see what we’ve been talking about. A really good play. It’s a good reason to come out. It’s just a delight to have a room full of people again. We just appreciate it and I find it so energizing and exciting.
GRIFFIN
And there is something very beautiful to me about watching a big show with a small cast. And theatre has something that other mediums like film will never have, and it’s that you get to do theatre in front of people that you know are there, and they know that you know they’re there. And you get to actually hear them laugh, or hear them cry, or hear them cough, or hear their phone go off.
NATHAN (Laughs)
Well, that’s the magic, isn’t it?
GRIFFIN (Laughs)
Yeah.
***
Stones in His Pockets by Marie Jones stars Griffin Cork as Charlie Conlon and Nathan Schmidt as Jake Quinn. Director Morris Ertman, Scenic Designer Hanne Loosen, Costume Designer Amy Castro, Lighting Designer Becky Halterman, Sound Designer/Composer Luke Ertman, Stage Manager Kalena Lewandowski, Stage Manager (Rehearsal) Brad G. Graham.
When romance novelist Paul Sheldon is rescued from a car crash by his “number one fan” Annie Wilkes – he feels lucky to be alive. As Paul slowly recovers from his injuries in Annie’s isolated home, Annie reads Paul’s latest novel and discovers to her horror that Paul kills off Misery – her favourite character. That’s when Annie’s obsession takes a dark turn, and she forces Paul to write a new novel that brings Misery back to life. In a perilous game of survival, Paul works on the new novel while plotting his escape from the menacing and unpredictable Annie Wilkes.
Misery stars Anna Cummer as Annie Wilkes, Haysam Kadri as Paul Sheldon, and Curt McKinstry as Buster and I’m happy to report that Vertigo’s production of Misery is a thrilling dive into the scary world of deadly obsession. Everything you want in a psychological thriller is here including phenomenal performances, an incredible set, atmospheric lighting, a chilling soundscape, and plenty of big payoffs all under the gifted direction of Jamie Dunsdon.
I sat down with Jamie to talk with her about Misery, and I started our conversation by asking her what is it about Annie Wilkes that makes her such a compelling and menacing character.
JAMIE DUNSDON
What makes her so compelling is that she’s so human. She feels so real. She’s not a villain. She’s not Moriarty. She’s broken is what she is. She’s a normal human being. She’s someone who has had hurt in her life and pain in her life, and she just used the wrong means to cope with it and that led to an obsession which led to fanaticism.
And for her, this is a love story. For Paul, this is a survival story. She’s entering this story from a much different angle than everyone else. And then she can snap on a dime, which makes her unpredictable and frightening and complex.
Anna Cummer as Annie Wilkes in the Vertigo Theatre Production of Misery based on the book by Stephen King and adapted for the stage by William Goldman. Directed by Jamie Dunsdon. Set Design by Scott Reid, Costume Design by Rebecca Toon, Lighting Design by Anton deGroot, Photo Tim Nguyen.
JAMES HUTCHISON
You’ve got a wonderful cast with Anna Cummer as Annie Wilkes and Haysam Kadri as Paul Sheldon. Tell me a little bit about how these actors are bringing these characters to life and what we can expect as an audience.
JAMIE
When I was casting, I didn’t want a Kathy Bates impersonation. It was about finding a person who could bring complexity to this character. I think it’s easy to look at a character like Annie Wilkes and just play a psychopath. I wanted an actor who could enter her from a human angle. And I felt the same way about the Paul character. I didn’t want a James Caan impersonation. I didn’t want someone to do the same thing that he did.
We’re not trying to do an impersonation of the film, even though this is an adaptation of the film more than of the novel. We are trying to honour what audiences want from the Misery story while also giving them something that’s a little more rounded and a little more complex. So, Anna and Haysam bring something that’s really beautiful to the characters. They bring their years of theatre experience and playing real rounded human characters, so these characters on stage feel like people you could know, and that’s mesmerizing to watch.
Anna Cummer as Annie Wilkes and Haysam Kadri as Paul Sheldon in the Vertigo Theatre Production of Misery based on the book by Stephen King and adapted for the stage by William Goldman. Directed by Jamie Dunsdon. Set Design by Scott Reid, Costume Design by Rebecca Toon, Lighting Design by Anton deGroot, Photo Tim Nguyen.
JAMES
You know, one of the most chilling aspects of the story is the fact that there actually have been fans who have stalked and killed the very people they claim to admire and love.
JAMIE
I know.
JAMES
That’s what’s so strange about humans, right, how that love can twist into hate. And I wonder what do you think it is about human nature that makes some people travel down that dark path of obsession and violence?
JAMIE
I’m not sure what makes them go down that path. I think people who have trauma and then live with that trauma on a loop in their head are looking for coping mechanisms and that can make the mind do dangerous things.
And then I’m guessing what happens with obsession is there’s a shift in the concept of ownership. I think a lot of fans feel ownership over the thing that they love, and when that ownership gets carried to its furthest logical conclusion ownership means control, and ownership means they have a right to control the subject or the object of their fascination and fanaticism. I think objectification and ownership is probably where the shift happens in their mind.
But what makes people go down that path? I’m not sure.
In our production, we’re playing with what happens when people get traumatized. What’s going to happen to Paul Sheldon if he lives through this experience? Is he going to be a different person on the other side? Is he going to be a different person in the same way that Annie is clearly a different person than the child she was? Something happened to her and her past made her who she is.
Anna Cummer as Annie Wilkes and Haysam Kadri as Paul Sheldon in the Vertigo Theatre Production of Misery based on the book by Stephen King and adapted for the stage by William Goldman. Directed by Jamie Dunsdon. Set Design by Scott Reid, Costume Design by Rebecca Toon, Lighting Design by Anton deGroot, Photo Tim Nguyen.
JAMES
In the play, Paul doesn’t give up. He’s resourceful. He’s trying to figure his way out of this situation. So why doesn’t he give up? What keeps him going? What do you think the story says about our desire to fight and survive?
JAMIE
In the novel, he kind of does give up. There are some significant moments in the novel where he wishes for death. We don’t go quite that far in the play, although we hint at it. I think what happens and what pushes him through is probably that Paul gets broken down into the animal version of himself, and that animal instinct to survive.
And the other thing is, he’s got something to fight for. Being locked in this little room changes him. It makes him a better person in a lot of ways. Trauma tends to make someone either a better or a worse version of themselves. And so, I think, he gets a new outlook on the world, and that gives him something he’s trying to escape for. He has a different perspective about his life as a writer and the characters he writes about and a deeper love of the work he’s done. I think he is transformed by this experience.
Haysam Kadri as Paul Sheldon in the Vertigo Theatre Production of Misery based on the book by Stephen King and adapted for the stage by William Goldman. Directed by Jamie Dunsdon. Set Design by Scott Reid, Costume Design by Rebecca Toon, Lighting Design by Anton deGroot, Photo Tim Nguyen.
JAMES
A theatre production involves all kinds of elements and talented people working on those aspects of a production. What are some of the elements you’re bringing together in terms of set design, lighting, sound, costumes, and makeup and how are you using some of those elements to tell the story?
JAMIE
This adaptation of Misery was commissioned by Warner Brothers for a Broadway production, and they pulled out all the stops. They put Warner Brothers’ money into it. The play is massive. And the team at Vertigo has pulled out all the stops as well. They’ve really embraced the challenge.
We’ve got special effects. We’ve got fire. We’ve got guns. We’re using light in a sort of cinematic way. And Scott Reed is doing my set for Misery which I’m really lucky for because the set for this show is very demanding. How do you create a claustrophobic space on stage while also allowing for all the other things that need to happen inside the house? I won’t spoil it, but Scott’s given us a really beautiful mechanism to work with that allows us to travel through the house but to also feel the claustrophobia of Paul’s room.
Misery can feel like a small story. It can feel like a little two-hander, but the scale of this production is pretty massive. I made a list of every special effect in the show and every unusual bit of combat and choreography, and production challenges, and I think that every production challenge that has ever existed in theatre is in this play. Except for bubbles, maybe.
JAMES
Is it too late to add the bubbles?
JAMIE
No, it’s not too late. I’ll look for a place. Just for you.
JAMES
Excellent.
JAMIE
I think audiences are in for a treat. It’s not spectacle for the sake of spectacle. It’s all there to serve the story. Some of the special effects are really tiny and you wouldn’t even think of them as special effects, but they’re special effects to us because they require special technology or a special prop. There are a lot of tricks that we have to do in this production to make things possible.
Haysam Kadri as Paul Sheldon in the Vertigo Theatre Production of Misery based on the book by Stephen King and adapted for the stage by William Goldman. Directed by Jamie Dunsdon. Set Design by Scott Reid, Costume Design by Rebecca Toon, Lighting Design by Anton deGroot, Photo Tim Nguyen.
JAMES
There are lots of different schools of thought about approaching directing and putting on a show and I’m curious to know how you describe your own approach to directing and whether or not you follow any particular philosophy or process or method.
JAMIE
I don’t have a process. In fact, my approach or my process is to not have a process. I was trained with a process. I did my masters in directing and so I learned a process. I learned an approach to tackling plays, but over the last fifteen years of my directing career, I found that when you try to paste a process on top of any given project you’re asking that project to fit within a previously held set of parameters. And that doesn’t work. Every play means something new. So, my approach is to learn what kind of director I need to be for each project.
So, for this cast, for example, I’ve worked with Haysam and Anna and Kurt McKinstry who is in the show as well. I’ve worked with them all before. I know them as actors. I trust them as actors implicitly. And they trust me. We have a really great relationship.
So, we do table work at the beginning and we did some table work on this, but back in my early days of directing, I would have felt the need to write down our objectives for every scene. And today I’m much more like – okay we can talk about our objectives, but we’re not really going to know everything until we’re up on our feet. So, there’s a lot more fluidity than there used to be in my process. There’s a lot more responsiveness to the needs of the moment. So, my approach to directing is to be responsive rather than prescriptive.
JAMES
Is there something about the play or directing or theatre you never get asked that you’d love people to know about?
JAMIE
I would love people to know about the role of the stage manager because most people don’t know what the stage manager is, and the average audience member will never know who that person is or how they exist in the world of the play if the stage manager is doing their job.
And on this show, we have a team of stage managers that are holding this thing up. Every moment they are running around backstage doing things and getting things ready. Meredith Johnson is my lead stage manager, and I often joke that the best-kept secret in Calgary is that the best director in town is Meredith Johnson. She’s a hero and a consummate artist, and without her artistry a show like this wouldn’t work. And it is artistry. There’s timing. There’s finesse. There’s an element of directing in stage management. The true hero of productions like this one are the stage managers.
Anna Cummer as Annie Wilkes and Curt McKinstry as Buster in the Vertigo Theatre Production of Misery based on the book by Stephen King and adapted for the stage by William Goldman. Directed by Jamie Dunsdon. Set Design by Scott Reid, Costume Design by Rebecca Toon, Lighting Design by Anton deGroot, Photo Tim Nguyen.
JAMES
I’m going to go back a couple of years. Back in March of 2020, you were directing a production of Admissions by Joshua Harmon for Theatre Calgary. I think it was just about to open or it had just opened and then COVID hit.
JAMIE
It was about to open the next day.
JAMES
And you had to shut it down and here we are now September 2022. Two and a half years later. I’m curious about two aspects. First, what was it like having to close that show and then what’s it like coming back with a full production now? And I’m curious to know how do you think COVID has impacted the theatre world and you as an artist.
JAMIE
Not being able to open Admissions was one of the most painful things I’ve gone through in my career. We got so close. It was a show I was proud of. It was a show that was doing really well in previews. I feel like it was all this unfulfilled potential energy that was suspended and never got released. So, I have a lot of sadness about the fact that show never opened, and it was a show that not only got postponed but they chose not to bring it back in the end. So, it’s deeply sad for me, and I carry a lot of sadness about that project.
I think a lot of theatre artists have experienced that in the last couple of years, and it’s made them question why they do theatre. There’s a lot of pain in this industry right now. We’ve seen ourselves get shut down and locked away and so now that we’re coming back what I’m seeing is this real joy of being in a room with people that you trust and you want to create with again, and that’s really beautiful and more beautiful than it used to be because we’re aware of how special it is, and we’re more aware of the ritual of live theatre – of the empathetic ritual of coming together in a space to experience things together.
***
Misery stars Anna Cummer as Annie Wilkes, Haysam Kadri as Paul Sheldon, and Curt McKinstry as Buster. Katherine Fadum is the understudy for this production. Misery is directed by Jamie Dunsdon, Set Design by Scott Reid, Costume Design by Rebecca Toon, Lighting Design by Anton deGroot, Sound Design & Composition by Dewi Wood, Fight Direction by Karl Sine, Stage Management by Meredith Johnson, Carissa Sams and Michael Luong.
“I believe we move in the direction that lights us up. That captures our attention. That we feel passionate about. But my end destination keeps changing and what makes me happy keeps changing. I thought when I started all of this, I wanted to be an actress. I didn’t know I was going to be aplaywright. And I like playwriting a whole hell of a lot better. It’s really about trusting the path and letting go of the outcome because how can you really foresee where the path will take you? If someone comes along and mentors you they can only tell you what path they took. But that’s not you. That’s not your path. I used to feel like a failed actress but if I had taken different steps along the way, maybe I wouldn’t have ended up loving playwriting so much or being as happy as I am being a playwright.”
Meredith Taylor-Parry Playwright
Playwright Meredith Taylor-Parry whose previous plays Book Club and Book Club II: The Next Chapter were big hits for Lunchbox Theatre has a new play at Lunchbox premiering on May 10th called Shark Bite. The two Book Club plays focused primarily on the challenges and joys of motherhood and marriage while her new play turns its attention to the relationship between a grandfather and his troubled fourteen-year-old granddaughter Ava as the two struggle to find the love and connection they once shared when Ava was a child.
I first met Meredith back in 2011 at Playworks Ink a theatre conference focusing on playwriting run by the Alberta Playwrights Network and Theatre Alberta. At that time Meredith was just beginning her playwriting journey and she was in the early stages of working on her play Survival Skills which won the New Works of Merit Playwriting Contest in 2013 and was produced Off-Off-Broadway in April 2014 by the 13th Street Repertory Company in New York City.
Meredith is a gifted playwright who is as adept at comedy as she is at drama, and her newest play is a touching and heartfelt glimpse into the age-old challenges of family members trying to reach out across the generations. I contacted Meredith back in March to talk with her about Shark Bite, life-changing decisions, sources of creative energy, and playwriting.
JAMES
One of the things we experience both as an audience and as an artist is a divergence of opinion regarding the work we see and the work we create. And by that, I mean the same movie or book or painting can be praised as the most meaningful and deeply moving experience of someone’s life and someone else will not feel a thing. One person can love it. Another person can hate it. Do you have an explanation for that divergence of opinion in ourselves and in others, and what does that tell you about us as humans?
MEREDITH
I think to sum it up in one sentence – people are complicated. Think of how complicated we are in our personalities and our histories and our experience. So of course, one piece of art is going to mean something completely different to someone else, or they’re going to experience it in different ways. That being said, what I’ve always been told about writing was that the more specific you are to your own experience the more you’re going to relate to a wider group of people.
So instead of trying to figure out what your audience wants, go to the heart and truth of your own experience as much as you can, and you will reach more people. That’s how you find your people. Your audience. The people that want to listen to what you have to say and to what story you want to tell. Because if you’re authentic through your writing and tell your story and your truth, then you seem to reach those people out there who are listening for it. They want to hear it because they experienced something similar.
JAMES
Have you ever had a critical moment in your life where someone or something you’ve encountered has resulted in a decision that changed your life’s path?
MEREDITH
Absolutely. I just feel weird about getting into it because I’m going to get pretty personal but what the f*ck! So, I got involved with a guy who was married back on the East Coast and if you flipped open a sociology textbook you could find a paragraph with our pictures above because it was that typical.
“I’m not happy with my marriage. I’m so sad. And now that you’ve come along, I understand what real love is. Maybe I’m finally ready to leave my wife. But no, I made vows. But I’m so unhappy. And you’re so great and amazing. Let’s get an apartment together! No this is moving too fast for me, I need to think. Blah blah blah.”
And I’ve written about this. I’ve written about this a number of times. Trying to work it out. That’s when I first started writing. That’s what I was writing about. It finally came down to this very dramatic scene in a small rural town in Nova Scotia, where I was sitting in a car and all three characters were there. The mistress, the husband, and the wife and they were screaming at each other. And I thought, “Oh my God, this is a Women’s Television Network fucking movie. And I am part of it. I’ve let my life become this drama.” And it was so clear to me that if one person did not withdraw that this crazy dysfunctional silly drama would continue on for who knows how long. That’s a lot of energy and a lot of pain and a lot of suffering. And I didn’t want any part of that anymore and I wanted to step out of the drama.
So, I did. I went home. I talked to my wonderfully smart, kind, and very wise roomie at the time who was my best girlfriend. And she organized a girl’s camping weekend around the gorgeous Cabot Trail in Cape Breton with a few good friends. By the time we had finished that trip, I decided I was going to get in my car and drive across Canada, cause I love a good road trip, and figure my life out. Those women and that weekend changed my life. Never underestimate the power of the female friendship. So, within two weeks, I packed up all my stuff, dropped it off at my parents and started a road trip and ended up out here. That’s how I ended up in Calgary. So – life-changing.
If I hadn’t done that God knows I’d still be back in Nova Scotia. I never would have had a little look-see and gander around Canada and figured out where I wanted to be. I’m sure I never would have ended up in the arts. I never would have had enough guts to go and do my BFA and my MFA. There’s no way I would have ended up as a playwright.
It’s a really interesting movie. But in the book, there’s a line that goes, “Who we want to be doesn’t matter when there’s no way to get there.” And that really brought to mind the idea of guidance and mentorship in life for me. It’s like how do we figure out how to become the artist?
MEREDITH
I think our picture of who we want to be isn’t the destination. I believe that. When someone says I don’t know the path to get there it’s like – take a fucking step in the direction of where you think you want to go and then watch the magic happen. Because in my life, every time I’ve done a big bold move the universe has come in tenfold.
For example, you may ask how does an elementary school teacher manage to take a road trip across Canada with no job prospects and end up out in Calgary? It’s because within a week after I’d made that decision to leave, I had a big unexpected financial windfall.
I believe we move in the direction that lights us up. That captures our attention. That we feel passionate about. But my end destination keeps changing and what makes me happy keeps changing. I thought when I started all of this, I wanted to be an actress. I didn’t know I was going to be a playwright. And I like playwriting a whole hell of a lot better. It’s really about trusting the path and letting go of the outcome because how can you really foresee where the path will take you? If someone comes along and mentors you they can only tell you what path they took. But that’s not you. That’s not your path. I used to feel like a failed actress but if I had taken different steps along the way, maybe I wouldn’t have ended up loving playwriting so much or being as happy as I am being a playwright.
Anna Cummer, Cheryl Hutton, Kira Bradley and Arielle Rombough in a scene from the Lunchbox Theatre production of Book Club II: The Next Chapter Photograph by Benjamin Laird
I remember making a decision when I was turning thirty. I already had two degrees. I had a Bachelor of Education and a Bachelor of Sociology. Should I go take a Bachelor of Fine Arts and spend all that money or should I go to SAIT and take the film and television course, which was notoriously hard to get into at the time, but it seemed more practical, because I thought, “Well, I could still be on camera. I’ll just be working in television. Maybe I’ll be hosting a show or maybe I’ll work in news.” And that seemed the more practical choice. And if you took a poll of all my friends, which I did, because I used to do that in order to try and make decisions, they all said, “Oh, SAIT. Doesn’t that sound more practical? It’s only two years. You’re not going to spend as much money. I can see you doing television or radio. You’ve always been interested in it.”
Maybe SAIT was more practical, but I went with my gut intuitive feeling that I would not be happy. I got accepted into SAIT. I probably got in because I was relaxed in the interview. I wasn’t hanging all my hopes and dreams on it. I got in, but then I phoned them up and I said, “You know what, I’m declining my seat because I’m going to go to the University of Calgary and I’m going to take my Bachelor of Fine Arts and Drama.” And the admissions person said, “Well, good luck to you.” He was nice. He was just kind of astounded because people wanted to get into the program so badly.
But I just had this epiphany moment and when I made that decision, I decided that from then on, I was going to make bold moves like that. I wasn’t going to do what culturally looked right or what my friends were telling me to do. I was going to go with my gut. And I feel like I’ve been rewarded. I feel very grateful for the life that I live now. I work hard to let go of the feeling that I’m a loser unless I’m a famous Canadian playwright or I’m making good money doing this. Which is so ridiculous because it’s such a crapshoot and there are so few people that are going to go into the arts and make money. Maybe it should just be enough that you’re happy with yourself and you’re happy with trying to get your work out into the world. Sometimes you do, and that should be sweet enough perhaps.
“The Biotechs” Meredith, Tanis, Jenny, and Krista – Banff 2019
JAMES
You mentioned friends. Who do you have in your life that can be brutally honest with you and how brutally honest are you with yourself?
MEREDITH
I subscribe to the philosophy of less brutality and more gentleness. So, I have a really good group of girlfriends who are honest with me, but we’re all each other’s biggest fans and we’re all really gentle with each other. And as far as being honest with myself in a workshop situation, for example, where you bring your play in and you lay it out and all the actors read it, I invite honesty. I just keep assuring people that I want to know if there’s something that doesn’t feel right to them. And you will get a lot of different opinions because as we said before, people are complicated. People respond differently to art. One scene that someone might love and adore another person may think is completely unnecessary. One character that I’m in love with someone else might find creepy.
So, I let everybody know at the beginning I want their honest feedback and that has come with experience. I certainly wasn’t like that at the beginning of my career. Not at all. But now I can handle anything. Just give it to me straight. I will write everything down because I feel like I have a really good inner bullshit meter that will tell me one of two things. Either: “You know what, that comment doesn’t serve the play OR shit they’re right. I didn’t see it before but now that they’ve given me that feedback I have to go back and fix that part. Oh my God, that entire scene has to come out and I have to write something else. What am I going to do? How am I going to fix that?”
Occasionally, I just note a comment and wait for two other people to tell me the same thing then I’ll go back and have a look at it. But I still have the dial on the bullshit meter that says, “Thanks for your feedback!” while I’m thinking, “No way would I touch that. I don’t care if you think that character is creepy. You can not like that character and that’s fine, but I’m not going to change anything or take that character out.”
Arielle Rombough, Kira Bradley, Anna Cummer, Kathryn Kerbes, and Cheryl Hutton in the 2016 Lunchbox Theatre Production of Book Club by Meredith Taylor Parry. Photograph by Meredith Taylor-Parry
JAMES
Let’s talk about creative energy. That’s been one of the challenges I’ve noticed over the last decade with my own writing because I’ve always thought of writing as something finite. In other words, something that gets used up in the day. It’s like a jug of wine, right? You drink as you write and by the end of the day the jug is empty, and you’ve used it all up. And if you use it up on other activities like blogging or writing commercials, which I used to do, there’s nothing left at the end of the day for your stories.
But just the last week I started to think about creative energy more like turning on a tap. In other words, it’s always available. It’s just you have to turn the tap on to use it. So, I could be at work and let’s say I’m a commercial writer, I turn it on. I create whatever I need to make a living. I turn it off when I head home. And then that night, I’ve got a two-hour block where I could turn the tap on again and do my own creative writing. How do you think of creative energy? The energy you use to create your art. Is it a finite thing to use up in a day? Is it a flowing thing? I’m just curious.
MEREDITH
There’s got to be something in the tap when you turn it on. You have to figure out how you replenish that supply or keep that supply flowing. And for me, it comes from other people. For example, my energy has completely changed since we started talking even though this morning, I had a bit of anxiety about doing the interview because I wanted to think carefully about my answers. But now that we’ve started talking about playwriting, I don’t give a shit because I get so excited and all the anxiety goes away. This crazy energy builds up in me and it’s fun because I love talking about writing and I love talking about plays and I love talking about making art.
And if you look at any of my plays they went from one level to a much higher level it was always because of an infusion of creativity from other artists offering their talent, ability, different points of view and brilliance to the project. For example, with Shark Bite Maezy Dennie, Robert Klein, Chantelle Han, and Ruby Dawn Eustaquio were a dream team. I keep getting dream teams at Lunchbox. Like the dream team I had for Book Club and Book Club II. It’s impossible to have all of that artistic talent in a room together and not get inspired. And I know that I need that. It’s just that sometimes I forget to seek that out. I’m pretty good at doing workshops if a workshop pops up from the Playwrights Guild of Canada or whatever. I will do a workshop because I know that I’m going to come out of that two-hour workshop and be full of creative energy, which is going to help my writing that day or the next day or in the weeks to come.
Meredith’s Mother Elizabeth Taylor, Meredith, and her sister Emily Taylor Smith on an Opera Tour in Budapest 2019
And I need to expose myself to other forms of art if I want to get creative energy to put into my own art. I need to visit art museums. I need to look at visual art. I need to listen to a lot of music and different kinds of music. I need to read fiction. I need to go to plays because that will replenish my creative energy. My mom and my sister and I would go on these amazing opera tours pre- Covid. There’s a company out of Ontario called ARIA tours and they handpick the wine that you’re going to drink in the two-star Michelin restaurant where you’re going to dine. And thanks to my Mom, I’ve gone to New York and Scandinavia and several different countries in Europe, and I’ve eaten great food and toured world-class art museums during the day and seen so much opera. I’m truly blessed to have been immersed in such amazing art experiences.
And getting outside. Walking or gardening or yard work. Even shovelling snow. You’re outside. You’re getting your vitamin D. You’re getting some fresh air. You’re doing something kind of mindless that you don’t need your brain for so your brain starts wandering and coming up with creative ideas or starts solving a problem in a play that you’re working on or comes up with an idea that you might use for a play.
All this stuff’s been said before though. I’m not making this up and you just have find what works for you. And those are the three things I can think of that work for me every time: being around creative people, experiencing art in other forms and going outside and walking or just moving your body in other ways like yard work.
JAMES
How has COVID made an impact on you over the last couple of years? How has it impacted you personally and professionally?
MEREDITH
It broke my stride as an artist, I think. It did a lot worse for a lot of other people, so I don’t mean to sound whiny, but I had just rented a desk at cSPACE in the sandbox which is a co-working space at the King Edward. And I would go in once a week dressed up for work with my lunch and my computer and sit at this desk with other people who were renting space. And there’s all this art in there already and a lot of nonprofits and a lot of arts companies and organizations. And I’d go and I’d sit down and work and in a few months I finished an adaptation I was working on. And then COVID hit, and I thought, “Well, I’m not going to go into work anymore.” And for a while they shut down completely. So, now I’m like, “Should I do that again?” It was productive at the time but right now for whatever reason, I’m not super motivated. I already feel really busy.
And the pandemic was the perfect storm for my teenagers and they both encountered a lot of mental health struggles that were worsened during the pandemic and came to light during the pandemic. So, we started a whole journey with both of my kids and that’s taken its toll. It’s been really hard on us as a family but we’re getting through it.
Summer 2021 – Greg, Leo, Noah, and Meredith – Dinosaur Provincial Park – Alberta, Canada
But it also gave me time to rest and say, “Okay, we’re in a pandemic right now. I’m going to support my kids with their mental health struggles and get my kids through grade nine or ten or whatever it was because they’re working from home and they’re going to need my support to get through it.” Neither of them was doing very well independently. They really needed support and help to get through the online learning. So, “I’m going to give myself a break as a writer and I’m not going to feel like I need to be writing every day right now.”
JAMES
You mentioned you have a production coming up with Lunchbox Theatre called Shark Bite. This is the third play of yours to grace the Lunchbox stage and here’s the description, Ava a troubled urban teenager goes to her grandfather’s remote cabin for a visit. The two soon learn that the easy days of their relationship are far behind them and when George tries to find some common ground between them through a hike in the woods, a dangerous turn of events leaves Ava in the position of trying to save them both.
First, I’m curious, Ava’s fourteen and I’m just wondering, what were you like when you were fourteen? What did you think about the world? What was your life like? What did you spend your time doing? And reflecting back now, how much of that fourteen-year-old version remains today and how much did you use it to create the character?
MEREDITH
Oh, God, that’s a tough one. That’s a big question. Okay, so the first part of the question was thinking about yourself at fourteen and I see myself as a gawky, gangly teenager. My nickname was String Bean. And I was a card-carrying perfectionist. I was working really hard in school to try and get good marks. I did extracurriculars. I did sports. Even when they made me miserable I still did them. And then I was looking at everybody else and going why can’t I just be normal like her? Or comparing myself to other people because there was always someone who was better on the basketball team than me and there was always someone who was getting higher marks than me and had a boyfriend when I didn’t. So those kinds of things. Feeling like there’s something wrong with me. That I’m out of place. That I don’t fit in with other people.
I did spend time out in the woods with my father because he was a big outdoorsman. So, the stuff about hiking through the woods in the play and the spruce gum and looking at animal tracks would have still been a part of my world a little bit at fourteen. I don’t know how old I was when I gave up snaring rabbits. When I finally went, “Oh my God this is horrible. And traumatic.” Little t. That was definitely still part of my world at that time.
But when I was writing the play, I also tried to look at it from the point of view of teenagers and I wrote an imagined character who wasn’t really one of my teenagers, but I was certainly drawing from some of their experiences. And then Maezy helped me too in that final workshop that we did in 2021 with Stage One. She helped me be more truthful and authentic. There’s pretty much no other place I’d rather be than sitting in a room with a bunch of actors, trying to make a play better, and then getting to see it. I’m grateful for all the people that I get to work with through Lunchbox and I’m grateful that I’m going to get to work with them again because it’s a pretty damn great place to work.
Maezy Dennie as Ava and Robert Klein as George in the Lunchbox Theatre Production of Shark Bite by Meredith Taylor-Parry. Photo by Tim Nguyen
Robert Klein as George in the Lunchbox Theatre Production of Shark Bite by Meredith Taylor Parry. Photo by Tim Nguyen
Robert Klein as George and Maezy Dennie as Ava in the Lunchbox Theatre Production of Shark Bite by Meredith Taylor-Parry. Photo by Tim Nguyen
Robert Klein as George and Maezy Dennie as Ava in the Lunchbox Theatre Production of Shark Bite by Meredith Taylor-Parry. Photo by Tim Nguyen
Maezy Dennie as Ava and Robert Klein as George in the Lunchbox Theatre Production of Shark Bite by Meredith Taylor-Parry. Photo by Tim Nguyen
Maezy Dennie as Ava and Robert Klein as George in the Lunchbox Theatre Production of Shark Bite by Meredith Taylor-Parry. Photo by Tim Nguyen
Robert Klein as George and Maezy Dennie as Ava in the Lunchbox Theatre Production of Shark Bite by Meredith Taylor-Parry. Photo by Tim Nguyen
Robert Klein as George and Maezy Dennie as Ava in the Lunchbox Theatre Production of Shark Bite by Meredith Taylor-Parry. Photo by Tim Nguyen
Maezy Dennie as Ava and Robert Klein as George in the Lunchbox Theatre Production of Shark Bite by Meredith Taylor-Parry. Photo by Tim Nguyen
Maezy Dennie as Ava and Robert Klein as George in the Lunchbox Theatre Production of Shark Bite by Meredith Taylor-Parry. Photo by Tim Nguyen
JAMES
One of the themes in the play is an examination of self-harm. And the play really made me think about our culture and the fundamental role punishment plays in our society. The desire to punish ourselves is a message that might find its roots in the very nature of our own culture. In other words, ideas like no pain, no gain and the need to make sacrifices in order to achieve something. So, I’m curious about your own thoughts and what you hope your play opens up in terms of a discussion about self-harm and punishment.
MEREDITH
Self-harm wasn’t originally in the play. I workshopped the play with the St. John Theatre Company just before the pandemic in the fall of 2019. Pamela Halstead was the dramaturge and I also worked with a lot of really talented playwrights in that little circle. We were all finalists in a playwriting competition that was put on by the St. John Theatre Company and in order to enter the competition you had to have ties to New Brunswick or New Brunswick roots. Which I do. I was born there.
And one amazing playwright in attendance in Saint John, John-Michel Cliche said that when he thought about the presence of the lighter in the play he immediately thought about self-harm, and I replied – “Wow.” Sometimes you put things in your play, and you know they’re really important, but you don’t know what the hell they’re in there for. And then someone like Jean-Michel comes along and says, “Well, what about this?” And that opened up the idea of self-harm and I started thinking about it, and then it came into my own life through what my teenagers have been experiencing over the past couple of years. And then it came into the lives of a lot of my parent-friends, who have teens, and you know, pandemic aside, just being a teenager in this age is really, really, really, hard. Right? In this age, of TikTok.
So, I believe there’s a reason why Jean-Michel turned to me and said, “I thought about self-harm when she took that lighter.” Coincidence? I’m not sure. I’m experiencing this with my kids and I know so many people who are experiencing this and this needs to be talked about because this is a big commonality among teenagers right now that’s not being talked about a lot. And there are parents from my generation who are going, “What the hell? I don’t get this. I don’t understand this at all.” So, I think it’s really good if we talk about it a bit and we get some more information out about it and it sparks conversation among audience members.
I also think it really illustrates the generation gap between Ava and George because he’s an even older generation because he’s the granddad and how does a teenager maintain a relationship with a grandparent? How did I maintain a relationship with my grandparents at that point? When you’re fourteen and vulnerable and going through stuff that you don’t want your grandparents to know about because they might not understand it or they might judge you for it, so you don’t really show them who you are. You just have this kind of superficial relationship. They just know that you do well at school and you like horses. You don’t talk to them about what’s really going on. I felt there needed to be issues that illustrate the characters struggling to connect while dealing with topics that the granddad doesn’t understand.
And I don’t know everything there is to know about self-harm but from what I’ve learned about self-harm, and from what people have told me – because I haven’t experienced it myself – is that it is different from punishment. My understanding of it is that you’re inflicting a physical pain to avoid or rescue you from or to stop a profound emotional pain that is being visited upon you, rather than it being a punishment. It’s more like an action to protect you from pain, or to take you out of a painful place that you’re in so that you can avoid experiencing emotional pain.
For more information about self-harm check out the links below:
When you think about life how much do you think about the cycles we experience and the linear progression of time we experience because there are cycles and an individual cycle can be different. So, we have the seasons, and each season has similarities to previous seasons, but each season is also unique, right? This summer was hotter than last summer or whatever. And just as we experience cycles in life on an annual basis, we’re also on a linear track. We’re getting older each day. So, our time here diminishes. And when you look at life, how much do you think about the cycles of life and how much do you think of the linear progression of time?
MEREDITH
I think more about cycles. That’s how I mark time. I really love the change of seasons in our climate. I could never be a snowbird. I have friends who are retiring, and I look on Facebook and they’re like, “We’re snowbirds now and we’re going to go down and live in Florida.” My grandparents did that. And I think, “I couldn’t do that. I’d miss the change of seasons. It’s nice to take a break from winter and go away for a couple of weeks but I like that cycle.”
And every year it seems to light me up even more. I’ll be sitting at my window, and I look outside, and I see birds starting to come around because it’s starting to get a little bit milder and I’ve got bird feeders in the yard and I’m like a little kid, “Oh my God, I saw my first Robin.”
And as I get older that stuff becomes more important and interesting to me. I notice it more. I enjoy it more. I enjoy that spring cleanup and getting out when the earth is starting to soften up a little bit and then you go out and you work in the yard all day and you smell the dirt and the air starts to warm up a bit in the spring. And I love the fall equally with all the smells and sometimes that beautiful weather that keeps going into fall when the skies have never been bluer, and it’s really crisp in the morning. And I love the first snowfall of the year and so I think I focus more on cycles.
And I know there are cycles with parenting because parenting is tough. And it makes parenting a whole lot easier because when you’re in a really tough cycle, or a really tough phase it really helps to look at it and realize, “You know what, this isn’t going to last forever. And right now, it’s really, really tough. But in a few years, they’re going to be a grown-up and we’re going to be sitting down having a coffee together, or going to a movie, or going for lunch and everything is going to be okay.” And it’s really useful to remember that when you’re going through a difficult phase.
JAMES
This too will end.
MEREDITH
“This too shall pass.” My mother used to say that all the time and I honestly believe that. And maybe it sounds trite, but it helps me sometimes to say it to myself. When I’m in my own little mire of bad thoughts or bad times or bad luck. It can help me to say, “This too shall pass.” So, I think in cycles. Definitely cycles.
JAMES
Back in January 2016, we did an interview where you talked about your play Survival Skills which is a fictionalized story about a father committing suicide based on your own experience with your own father completing a suicide after he had received a terminal diagnosis, and in that interview, you said, “You want to write the kind of play where people are going to go home and talk about it, think about it and talk about themselves a little bit. You know, my God, if it got people to think about their own mortality a little bit, how could that be a bad thing? We all run around scared to talk about it, but we’re fascinated by it at the same time. The idea that we’re mortal, just to have that discussion opened up wouldn’t hurt.” So, I thought, let’s talk about it. Let’s talk about mortality and the fact that we’re all at some point in the future going to die. Have your own thoughts on mortality evolved over the course of your life?
MEREDITH
I think they’ve evolved but I can’t really say I spend a ton of time thinking or talking about it either. You know, it’s funny, at that point in time, I was obviously thinking we need to talk about death. It needs to be in a play. But right now, I don’t have a lot of thoughts to share on the topic to tell you the honest truth. I still think what I said was valid and I like what I said.
JAMES
Maybe there are times in your life where you feel the need to discuss your mortality, and maybe there are other times you don’t.
MEREDITH
And maybe you could take out the word mortality and punch something else in there like self-harm or punishment or shame or any of the other things we’ve talked about. I mean isn’t that what one hopes a play does? When I wrote Book Club a lot of thought went into how many moms are experiencing the same things, and shame being one of them, for not being the best mother on the planet. A couple of my plays deal with that theme. But if we don’t talk about it and bring it out into the light, we’ll just go on pretending to the people around us that we’ve got it all under control. Perhaps when we open up and laugh about the things that make us feel ashamed as moms or just human beings and shine a little light on it, perhaps that is a little bit healing.
There’s a Brene Brown quote, and I have it on my mirror in my bathroom. “I think laughter between people is a holy form of connection, of communion. It’s the way you and I look at each other and without words, say, I get exactly what you’re saying.”
So, if you write a funny line in your play about something rather important and your whole audience is laughing about it, there’s a shared humanity in that. Perhaps the audience is thinking “I get it. I get what you’re saying. I’m with you.”
Besides the fact that everyone just laughed at something you wrote down and were fortunate enough to bring to actors and a director and the rest of your creative team and they’ve poured their creativity into it and together you’ve just made a big room of people laugh and walk out together feeling happy and connected.
Bedouin Tea Time – Doha, Qatar – Photographer – Louise Good – In the Moment Gallery
“I think gratitude is extremely critical. It is so easy to look at the negative side of a situation. Not to deter from the negative things that are going on in people’s lives – I respect that. And I understand that it can be difficult, but that attitude of gratitude that they talk about is magic. It changes your brain. It makes you always optimistic for what can happen, the possibilities, and it might not always work out – things don’t always work out as I planned them, but I never stop having that gratitude and that optimistic attitude, and I really do believe that carries you far. I believe the world gives you what you need when you keep giving the world what it’s asking of you.”
Louise Good In the Moment Gallery
Louise Good has been travelling the world, camera in hand, taking photographs of her journeys and adventures for the last couple of decades. Over that time she’s created a body of work that is based primarily on what God gives her in the moment.
I contacted Louise last summer to talk with her about her interest and approach to photography where she told me about the key questions photographer Sam Abel asks about his work and how she now uses those questions as a guide for her work both past and present. We also chatted about one of her favourite books The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho, some of her views and thoughts about life, and what it was like growing up in a large family in the northern Alberta community of Grande Prairie.
LOUISE GOOD
Grande Prairie was a great community for our family. Lots of activities. Lots of involvement. As I got older, I played basketball in high school and in college. And I also did a lot of drama and acting. I did a lot of community theatre, and that was a great experience for me, and it kind of led me to my career choice, which was to go into broadcast journalism. And that’s where you and I know each other from because we both went to SAIT together.
The Cinema, Television, Stage, and Radio Arts Class of 1988 at SAIT
JAMES HUTCHISON
That’s true. You mentioned you played basketball growing up and in college, and sports have been a big part of your life. What do you think have been some of the lessons you’ve learned from participating in sports?
LOUISE
I’ve always had a competitive spirit. I think anyone who knows me would say that’s true. It partially comes from being the oldest in a family of nine kids. I had to be independent from a very young age, and sports really taught me how to channel that energy, how to excel, how to work hard, and to never give up, and never give in when things do get tough.
It also taught me a lot about collaborating and teamwork and other people’s points of view, and understanding that sometimes you take the lead, and sometimes you support the leader. So, I think I learned a lot from sports and possibly some of those skills I also learned from growing up in a big family as well.
JAMES
You mention growing up in a family of nine and the majority of us don’t have that sort of experience, but for you that was daily life. So, what is it like growing up in a large family like that and what have been some of the life lessons?
LOUISE
I think from a young age, we learned that we had to work together. And I was very fortunate and blessed to grow up in a family that was full of love. Our parents always instilled in us that we could achieve whatever we wanted to achieve. And I’m not saying we didn’t disagree as siblings and have our share of arguments, but we just had an environment where we could succeed, and we could fail, and it was still going to be okay. And I think that helps you to push the boundaries of who you are, and to help you support other people to be their best.
I don’t think you realize as a kid growing up that those are the life skills you’re learning, but as you get older, and you look back, you can see that some of your success was from that experience. And now that I’m older, I have a grown son. I have a granddaughter and lots of nieces and nephews, and we see that continuing into the next generation of our family.
And I know not everybody’s from a big family, but family has lots of different meanings in life. We create our own families. And friends become our family. I live in Houston now and because of COVID I haven’t been back to Canada to see my parents or the rest of my family in a year and a half. And so, here in Houston I have a family with my friends, and we support each other, and we help each other with our dreams and our goals, and my work family here is pretty amazing too.
Houston – Photograph by Louise Good – In the Moment Gallery
JAMES
What’s it like living in Houston?
LOUISE
I absolutely love Houston. It’s so welcoming. It’s so vibrant. There’s so much going on in Houston all the time. And there are also some similarities to Alberta because of the oil and gas industry. And of course, that’s the industry that I’ve worked in for a big part of my career. So, I’m very passionate about it. You have people from all over the world in Houston, which makes for great theatre, which makes for great sports. We’ve got all the professional sports, the ballet, the opera, and I’ve made some great friends here, and that makes all the difference in the world.
JAMES
You mentioned we met at the Southern Alberta Institute of Technology in the Cinema Television Stage and Radio Arts program. What made you want to report the news?
LOUISE
As well as being in drama I was also very active in debate. And I liked storytelling. And I liked sports. I actually saw myself, early on, as being a sports reporter. There weren’t a lot of women doing that at the time. But my career path sort of took a different route.
I started out doing broadcast journalism, and I loved it. I worked in radio. I had some television jobs. I did sports. I was my own camerawoman for a while and that’s where my interest in photography began. I had to learn about framing the image and how to make pictures come alive, whether it’s video or photos.
JAMES
What was the first camera you had?
LOUISE
My very first – what I would call a real camera – was a Canon Rebel. One of the very first brands of the Rebel that came out. That’s the camera I began more serious photography with, and that camera travelled all over the world with me. That’s the camera I had for part of my time when I was in the Middle East, and then I got the camera I have today. This one here. It’s a Canon EOS 60 D. And this one is not a new camera either, but it serves me well. The technology inside the camera hasn’t really changed a ton. And maybe some people would argue with me about that, but this is not the top-of-the-line pro camera.
JAMES
Honestly, I’m not that interested in the technical, I’m more interested in results. I got a book out of the library this week called The Americans. It’s a book from the ‘50s, and it’s a bunch of these candid photos that photographer Robert Frank took while on a road trip through the United States. And some of them are taken from bizarre angles and some are blurry, but they all have an emotional impact. There’s power in the image.
LOUISE
I like that statement. Emotional impact.
JAMES
I read this quote “Photography has nothing to do with cameras.” It’s by a guy named Lucas Gentry. I couldn’t find out anything more about him, but I was wondering how much do you agree with that idea or not? “Photography has nothing to do with cameras.”
LOUISE
I think that’s exactly what we’re talking about. It has nothing to do with cameras because anybody can take a great picture these days. Because what makes a great picture is that emotion that you’re talking about. A photo evokes a feeling in somebody, and it doesn’t matter what the camera is, and I know we have great photographers who do amazing technical work, but these days the technology is so good in a phone that a picture can be snapped by anybody.
Photographer Louise Good – Mesa Verde National Park – Colorado, USA – In the Moment Gallery
I saw one this morning. I was looking online. I think it was the CNN Pictures of the week. And it was a photo of this kid jumping into a pond beside a highway. And he was mid-air, and it was just an incredible picture. Now, technically, was it a good picture? Not necessarily, but I went back to that picture three times because it was so cool.
And this reminds me of something I want to talk about. I’ve heard the great photographer, Sam Abel, speak more than once, at the Professional Photographers of America Convention. He is an amazing photographer. And he has three questions that he asks himself about an image. Is it involving? Is it evolving? And does it stay? And so, I asked these questions to myself a lot now about the work I do and when you think about those three questions they kind of answer the other statement that photography has nothing to do with the camera.
After I heard him speak in 2011 I did a couple of things. First, I looked back at the work that I’d already done, and I asked myself why is that a good picture? Does it accomplish those three things? Because, generally speaking, if it’s a good photo, it already has accomplished those three things.
And I still don’t think you can plan to make that happen. Sometimes it’s very spontaneous. And Sam Abel spoke about how he plans out a picture. He frames the picture and then he waits, sometimes up to twelve hours to take the photo. And I thought to myself, “Oh Lord, I do not shoot that way. I don’t have time for that. I just shoot in the moment that God gives me. If it’s a rainy day or if it’s a sunny day I just go and see what I can get. That’s my style. It’s candid, and it’s proven to be very effective for me. Many of my pictures are truly shot in the moment.”
Photographer Louise Good – Dubai – In the Moment Gallery
I didn’t say any of that out loud, obviously, because I was sitting in an auditorium, literally, but I knew that was the name of my brand – In the Moment.
The other fascinating thing is that when it comes to photography or art, as you well know, different things appeal to different people. So, a picture that I may love, for some reason, you may not like at all. And it’s always surprising to me when that emotion comes from a picture that I took or a print that I’ve made that I didn’t expect would evoke that emotion in me.
JAMES
You know, I was listening to a video from photographer Sean Tucker on YouTube and he was talking about the importance of going back and looking at and curating your old work because you have a better eye in the future looking back at your old stuff so you can pull out the work that you didn’t realize was good at the time.
LOUISE
That’s such an interesting perspective. Really makes me think when you’re talking about that. And maybe you know you can explain a little bit about this from your own body of work because sometimes when you go back and read your work again you see things differently and it’s not what you wanted, and that’s why you edit your work, right?
JAMES
Right.
LOUISE
Do you think that comes from a different perspective when you look backwards, or because your emotion isn’t as involved in that moment?
JAMES
It’s funny you mention that because I am working on a script that I wrote ten years ago. And I can’t write that same script today. I’m in a different place and the things I want to say in the script now are a lot different than what is currently said in the script. I don’t plan to change the time of the play. I plan to keep the time of the play in 2010 and oddly enough it’s the only play I’ve written that is about broadcasting.
It’s the one about Wildrose Radio. It’s about a morning show in Lethbridge. I wrote it and I let it sit for a long time and just this year started working on it again. But I’ve got over ten years of additional life experience and I want to comment more on how media and social media have evolved and what the world has been through. Plus, there’s tremendous comedy potential there since the characters will be speaking from their time frame in 2010 about what the future will be and what they think is going to happen and since the audience has lived through the last decade there will be great comic potential there plus an opportunity to evaluate how did we get here? How did we end up with such a polarized world? How did social media become so important?
I think you can’t help but be influenced by the life you’ve lived and the experience you’ve had. And it’s not just your personal experience. It’s also the culture and what the culture has been through, and I think that applies to story, and I think it applies to images. When you were talking about – is it involving, is it evolving, and does it stay with you I think that totally applies to a story, you know? Is a story involving and is there something happening? Is it progressing? And after the credits run, does it linger with you? And so, photography is really storytelling, right, and so I’m wondering how much do you think photography captures reality and how much do you think photography is an interpretation of reality?
LOUISE
That’s a tough one because I think it does both depending on the purpose of the image. In social media a lot of the images we see are people promoting themselves as a brand, and I don’t know how real any of that is, but then there’s a lot of authenticity in the world too, and those are the photographs that really capture people’s imagination. You know that picture of the boy diving into the pond that I looked at this morning.
So, why is it that all media has the top photos of the week? Why is it that even your local news has people sending in their images and people want to see them? It’s because it does represent moments in time, and I think those moments in time are really authentic and they do show us a piece of the world.
I’m working on a series right now called Storm. And I’m actually looking back at some of my older work as well as incorporating some recent work that I have. And the idea of doing a series in a show called Storm isn’t about the gloom and the darkness of a storm, but what comes out of the storm. The resilience. Joy. You know, rebirth. New life. A new perspective on the world and I think it really speaks to a lot of what we’ve gone through in the last year. We’ve been through so much change. Not just because of COVID and loss, but also the economies of the world, the storms they’ve been through, and there’s still great work that needs to be done on social justice issues. And all of these storms that we’re going through are creating something new, and hopefully something better.
Dunnottar Castle Scotland – Photograph by Louise Good
JAMES
You said you were going back and looking at past work as part of your work on this series called Storm, but then I’m wondering, how do you think, photography, and looking back at these old photos impacts our memory of the past?
LOUISE
Well, I find that many of the photos from my past make me smile. Even if they’re not comedic photos. And I think it goes back to those three questions. Is it involving? Is it evolving? And most important in this case, does it stay?
So, when you go back and you look at, like for example in 2019 before COVID I was doing some work overseas, and I was in Scotland, and I took a train out on the Sunday to this little town, and it’s near a castle called Dunnottar, and I went up through the town and up onto this hill to get to the castle – to walk along the sea. But when I turned back a storm was coming in over the town, and it was so dramatic. I was standing on this hillside. It was bright sunshine, and yet, in this town and around the valley it was dark, and I took all these pictures, and it was beautiful. And I was lost in that moment and when I looked back at those pictures recently, I could really be back in that moment.
Smoke – Banff Alberta – Photographer – Louise Good – In the Moment Gallery
JAMES
Well, speaking of pictures that speak to you I asked you to provide five of your favourite photos so we could talk about them and the first photograph I have here is the mountain – the blue smoke – I think you call it.
LOUISE
I called that Smoke. This was a challenging task for me. To pick five pictures, and I really had more than five. And there are some I switched out based on my perspective on a particular day. So, these are the five, that I guess, I settled on.
JAMES
On July 17 these are the ones that you settled on. Tomorrow you might have changed it.
LOUISE
But interestingly, I do have a gallery of my favourites on my website that you can go and have a look at.
JAMES
Right. So, tell me about this photograph. Why is it one of your favourites and what’s the story behind it?
LOUISE
I took that photo on the highway between Banff, Alberta, Canada and Jasper, and there was a forest fire, and it was really smoky through the valley. The fire was actually in British Columbia but the smoke comes through the valley, and it just sticks there. So, I got out and I took some pictures. The only thing that I’ve done to that picture was I just emphasized the colours that were already there. All of those blue colours were what the picture gave me. I just saturated the picture a little more. Blues are a relaxing colour, and I just think it draws you in.
JAMES
The smoke almost acts like a filter. And in between the first mountain and your camera there’s less smoke and then there’s more smoke between the next ridge and your camera because there’s more smoke as you go farther back to each ridge and it actually creates this unique lighting event from the camera’s point of view.
LOUISE
The key element is layers. There are layers in that picture and so it’s involving because you go from layer, to layer, to layer, with your eyes. It draws you into that photo.
JAMES
It’s a beautiful photograph. Did you do this one in metal?
LOUISE
I did do this one in brushed metal and it’s really beautiful in brushed metal.
Bedouin Tea Time – Doha, Qatar – Photographer – Louise Good – In the Moment Gallery
JAMES
The next photo I have is the two guys and the camel and the pots down in the bottom right. Tell me about this one.
LOUISE
So, I was living in Doha, Qatar, and it was Qatar National Day, and I was out with my camera, and this group of men riding camels down the street came along, and so I pulled over and I waved, and I asked if I could take some pictures. And they told me to take pictures, and then they invited me back for tea at the Bedouin camp. Now, normally a woman would not be invited to the tents. That’s for the men. The men do that together, but because this was a special set up so that people could come and see what a traditional Bedouin camp looked like they invited me in.
It was near the end of the day and, you know, technically speaking, somebody might say that picture is not perfect because I didn’t capture the light exactly right in the sky, but emotionally speaking you can have no argument that that is a great picture. And especially if you live in that part of the world. You know again it’s another one of those that might not have meaning to somebody who’s never lived in the Middle East, but it’s a beautiful, beautiful part of the country. And so, we were sitting around the fire. We had the tea, and I just took that picture, and the camel was there, and the young guys were looking at the camel.
Dancing in the Rain – New York City – Photographer – Louise Good – In the Moment Gallery
JAMES
The next one I have is the Radio City Music Hall in New York City. And it’s a rainy night. Tell me about that.
LOUISE
I took this picture with my iPhone. Not with my camera. I didn’t have my camera with me because it was raining so hard. It was my very first trip to New York, which was only two years ago. I’ve travelled all over the world, and I’ve never been to New York, and I just decided that when the time was right the world would let me know that it was time to go to New York.
And so, I found myself in New York with a couple of friends. But on that particular night, we were all doing something different. I wanted to go to the theatre and someone else was meeting a friend and somebody else went shopping. And so I was walking back to the hotel and it was just pouring, pouring rain, and the streets were so wet, but it was so alive, it was just so what New York is – even in the rain. You could feel the excitement. Other people might think it’s average or it doesn’t do anything for them but since I’m picking my favourites I think it’s really cool. And, technically, it’s a storm.
Into the Mist – Atchafalaya Swamp Louisiana USA – Photographer – Louise Good – In the Moment Gallery
JAMES
That’s true. Okay, so the next one I’ve got is the one from Louisiana, Into the Mist, I think you called it. That’s the one with the shadow trees. It’s a striking image. Tell me about that.
LOUISE
This is an image that has evoked the most emotion in others, as well as for me. I posted a version of this on my social media, and I had a lot of responses, and a couple of people even wanted to purchase the picture, so I made a couple sales.
This is the Atchafalaya Swamp in Louisiana, and this was taken during my first road trip after I moved to Houston. I was driving to Nashville to attend the Professional Photographers of America Convention, and I decided to drive there because I really wanted to take my camera and go on an excursion. And so, it was early morning, and I was coming across this part of the highway, and the fog was just thick in the swamp area, and it was just stunning to me. Spectacular.
And you’re not really supposed to stop along that part of the highway but there was a work truck there, and he had his lights flashing and there was room. So, I took the opportunity to pull in front of his vehicle where it was safe, and I got out, and I took as many pictures as I could. That picture is spooky. It’s definitely involving, evolving and it definitely stays with you after you’ve looked at it. How do you feel when you look at that image? Do you like it or not like it?
JAMES
I like it a great deal. It almost feels like a painting to me. And I like the abstract nature of it. I love photographs of trees. It has a surreal feel to it. And yet, it’s part of the world. It’s part of nature. At this moment in time when you were there this little image appeared and this is a part of the world.
LOUISE
If you really think about it, that picture didn’t stay that way for very long. It’s a true In the Moment photo. And I have been across that highway, many times since then. For work, and other reasons. And I have never ever seen it like this since. No matter what the time of day or the time of year. So, it’s unique and it really draws you in. And I actually had written some notes about this photo and I call it a surreal image which is exactly what you said.
Storm… The Silver Linings – Gulf of Mexico – Photographer Louise Good – In the Moment Gallery
JAMES
So, tell me about this one. The storm clouds. It looks like it was shot at a beach, or on the prairie.
LOUISE
That’s at the beach over the Gulf of Mexico between Galveston and Lake Jackson. That was shot during COVID when everything was on lockdown. So really the only thing you could do is go for a drive, which suited me just fine because I can take my camera and go. And this particular day the clouds were just rolling in. I have a bunch of different images from this day, and the one I picked to show you is a black and white. And I just think this one is dramatic. That’s my word for it.
And so this will also be a part of the Storm series because of when it was taken and also because I feel this picture is almost overwhelming emotionally which is how you feel when you’re going through a storm in life. There’s a lot of unknowns going on but eventually, those clouds are going to roll back, and you’ll experience that peace that comes when a storm passes because you gain understanding.
JAMES
Back in 2016 you arranged for a photo exhibition at the Alberta College of Art and I wanted to talk a little bit about that show. What was the process like for putting that show together?
LOUISE
My theme for that show was contrasts because there was so much contrast in my life at that time and there was so much contrast in the images that I had. I had all these great pictures like the Smoke picture from Canada, and the camel picture from the Middle East and the question is how do you take those two diverse images and make a show that people can follow. And so that’s how Contrasts was born.
I grouped pictures together. I had groups of three different pictures under a common theme, and I used different mediums. So, some of them I put on canvas. Some of them I put on brushed metal. And there was a lot of work that went into that. Picking the pictures. Writing the stories. I had a lot of help from friends and family, and really it was a labour of love, and it was a success.
Contrasts Show 2016
Contrasts Show 2016
Contrasts Show 2016
Contrasts Show 2016
JAMES
When you had everything set up including these twenty-foot tapestries hanging from the ceiling in the middle of the room and you had some big photos on the walls what was it like walking into that room after it was all set up and seeing a representation of your work being displayed in a show?
LOUISE
It was very humbling to see it all. I also had so much gratitude for the experiences I’d had that made it possible to take those images and put together this show, and I also had a great sense of accomplishment for a story that I was sharing partly about myself and partly about a body of work that I’d created.
JAMES
You mentioned gratitude. And I’ve known you a long time, and gratitude is a word that comes up quite often with you. How important do you think gratitude is in terms of life?
LOUISE
I think gratitude is extremely critical. It is so easy to look at the negative side of a situation. Not to deter from the negative things that are going on in people’s lives – I respect that. And I understand that it can be difficult, but that attitude of gratitude that they talk about is magic. It changes your brain. It makes you always optimistic for what can happen, the possibilities, and it might not always work out – things don’t always work out as I planned them, but I never stop having that gratitude and that optimistic attitude, and I really do believe that carries you far. I believe the world gives you what you need when you keep giving the world what it’s asking of you.
Gratitude – Photographer Louise Good – In the Moment Gallery
JAMES
So how much do you think your life has been planned and how much do you think your life has been unplanned?
LOUISE
I guess it depends on your perspective but from my perspective, I’m a woman of faith. So, I have to believe that my whole life has been planned – divinely planned in some aspect. And I know that not everybody has those same views, but those are my views, and I think that has helped me to define my strengths and some of my success, and also keeps me honest about what I need to continue to improve upon myself because I can be a very strong personality.
And I think that I have to focus on that attitude of gratitude and appreciation of people and helping others. I like to think that I live a life of service. And so much of the work that I’ve done in my entire life, in my career has been really in the service of others. And my background is a lot of sales work and sales leadership, and for me, sales is about a life of service because it’s not about selling a widget to somebody. It’s about the relationship around those transactions and what we do to ensure that there’s service around the relationship around the business transaction and that those are lifelong endeavours.
JAMES
The Alchemist is one of your favourite books.
LOUISE
Yes, it is.
JAMES
When was the first time you read it, and what did you think about it, and why has it become a favourite book of yours?
LOUISE
Okay, well, you gave me a copy of The Alchemist, my friend. That is when I got my first copy and I’d say that was maybe ten years ago.
JAMES
Sounds right.
LOUISE
You had read the book and talked highly of it, and so when you gifted me that book, it just really spoke to my soul. There are just so many parts of that story that resonate with a lot of people. One of the things that it talks about in the book is when you’re following your personal legend, the world gives you what you need.
What that means is when your soul is on its path – when you’re giving to the world in the way that you’re supposed to – it’s amazing what the world gives back to you. There are also some biblical principles around that because Paulo Coelho is a man of faith.
But the second thing I love about The Alchemist is the author’s story. Paulo Coelho wrote that book, and it was published in Spanish. And I think he said he sold three copies and two were to the same person. And that publisher cut him free, but he never lost faith in his book. So, when nobody else could see that there was something there, he still believed. And that, I think, is such an important concept in the world today – don’t give up on your dreams. Don’t let anybody tell you that your dream isn’t your dream and that it’s not important.
And he says, “I was following my personal legend and my capacity to write, was my treasure, and I needed to share that with the world.” So can you imagine if this man had stopped at that point, because he didn’t get validation from the world? But he didn’t stop. He kept going. And now, The Alchemist has sold over 65 million copies.
I think that the thing I love most about this book – it gets in your heart and soul – it’s a part of you. First of all, don’t quit. Don’t stop. Keep going. The world’s going to give you what you need. People will show up to help you, because you’re following your path. And so often we stop. We quit. We give up. And as long as you’re alive, as long as you’re living, as long as you have a breath in you – keep going. Keep being your best and loving your life and giving to the world. That’s what I get out of this book.
And I have the book right here and I just want to read an excerpt from the introduction by Paulo Coelho in his own words. He says, “I re-read The Alchemist regularly and every time I do I experienced the same sensations I felt when I wrote. And here is what I feel, I feel happiness, because it is all of me, and all of you simultaneously. I feel happiness, too, because I know I can never be alone. Wherever I go, people understand me. They understand my soul. This gives me hope.”
And I just really personally relate to that statement so much because I think that’s how I speak through my own art. It really is my soul, and it really does give me hope that the world is a great place because we can find union in art and in the world and in common ground.
JAMES
I want to talk about, In the Moment. You originally picked In the Moment to promote your photography and then you had an epiphany, I think, it was last summer and now you want to take the idea of In the Moment and make it more than just about photography. Can you talk a little bit about your vision for In the Moment and what you see the future being?
LOUISE
I think it was probably about halfway through last year. It was a month or so into COVID, and I began to have this vision for In the Moment – the brand – that there was a time and a place for this to make a difference in the world. And so, I realized that when the world had to stop because everything shut down, I mean literally everything shut down, people had to take a look at themselves.
And it allowed us the opportunity to be in the moment. To be more present. We weren’t rushing around. And so, it sort of came from my soul and I started designing and working on incorporating some of my images and different words to go with the In the Moment brand.
Be brave in the moment. Forgive in the moment. Rise in the moment. There are so many words that you can use. Laugh in the moment. Be better in the moment. And that’s my vision. To make a difference in the world. To make the world a better place through my photography and through my In the Moment Gallery and to evoke gratitude and kindness, love and grace under difficult circumstances.
JAMES
In what way, if any, do you think the experience of COVID could possibly be a positive thing.
LOUISE
Well, I don’t want us to forget the power of just being still. The power of shifting your values back to family, to friends, to simplifying your life, and to not forgetting – what’s most important to you and prioritizing your values. I think a lot of what in the moment means to me is being creative, being innovative, and thinking about the possibilities that COVID allowed for you that may not have happened otherwise. And I know that there is a lot of anguish and sadness and devastation that’s come from this period of time as well. And certainly, I acknowledge that, but once we get through this storm and we’ve survived it then we have to ask, “What can we do to make an impact on the world? What can we do to make this world a better place?”
John Craggs produced a rehearsed reading of my adaptation of A Christmas Carol which featured a stellar cast including Nicholas Le Prevost as Ebenezer Scrooge, Richard O’Callaghan as Mr. Fezziwig, Susannah May as Belle, Jonathan Tafler as Fred, John Craggs as Jacob Marley, Henrietta Bess as the Ghost of Christmas Past, Sebastian Storey as Tiny Tim, Anna Carteret as Mrs. Dilber, Catharine Humphrys as Fan, and Christopher Beck as Bob Cratchit. The production was directed by Jonathan Kydd with original music by Steve Redfern
A Christmas Carol was the seventh in a series of rehearsed readings that John has produced. The play was presented in support of Acting for Others. Acting for Others provides emotional and financial help to the many actors, designers, and technicians that have lost work during the pandemic and are facing tough times both mentally and financially. I had a chance to sit down with John over Zoom back in November and talk with him about A Christmas Carol and his life as an actor.
JAMES HUTCHISON
A lot of movies and stories including A Christmas Carol talk about the spirit of Christmas. How would you describe the Christmas spirit? What does that mean?
JOHN CRAGGS
It’s something that’s happening even now in November. I can sense it. There are people that would walk past other people in the street and not give them the time of day, but at Christmas people are a little more amicable and focused on each other. There’s just something that seems to rain down on people in the nicest possible way at this time of year.
JAMES
What role do you think telling stories and in particular telling stories in theatre plays in our lives?
JOHN
It plays a great deal, I think. Telling stories to people is essential. And you know it can touch anyone, and hopefully, it can change people’s lives depending of course on the subject matter. I think we want to entertain but we also want people to leave the theatre with a message, a story of some kind. And I think that is essential within our entertainment industry. No matter whether it’s a musical, whether it’s just a play, or it’s a comedy, there is always an underlining meaning behind everything that we see within theatre, including pantomime as well.
JAMES
Is there a particular play you’ve done that was sort of that right balance of entertainment and message that comes to mind?
JOHN
Yes, I’m going to go right back to 1997. And that was an Ibsen play – An Enemy of the People at the National Theatre. That play is the equivalent to Peter Benchley’s Jaws as bizarre as it may sound. Are you familiar with An Enemy of the People?
JAMES
I am. And funny you mentioned it because I was figuring that coming out of the pandemic, we should be seeing a lot of productions of An Enemy of the People. Arthur Miller did an adaptation and I recently reread that one. For those people that don’t know the play, it’s about a doctor who sounds the alarm bells about these springs in a community that have some kind of a bacteria in them that makes people sick and none of the business people or politicians want that information made public because they don’t want to shut down the springs and fix them. And you’re right it’s like Jaws. It’s exactly the same thing. They don’t want to shut the beaches down even though they know there’s a shark in the area.
JOHN
When we did the play and the main character Peter Stockman is speaking to the crowd we actually had a guy in the audience – and I think he’d had a few too many drinks – and he actually stood up and out of his seat – and I was working with the fabulous Ian McKellen who was playing Peter Stockman – and this guy stood up in the auditorium and he shouted, “Why don’t you effing well be quiet? You’re talking a load of rubbish. You want locking up.” And the ushers had to come down to remove him from the theatre and we literally froze on stage when that happened. So, when he’d gone, Ian said – within the character – “Right people, I’m going to carry on with what I was saying after I was so rudely interrupted.” And then of course he carried on.
JAMES
What was that experience like? Having a chance to share the stage with Ian McKellen.
JOHN
Ian is a very generous actor, and he is a lovely guy. And he’s got no affectations about him. It was a pleasure working with him. And, you know, he’d already been knighted, and a lot of people did call him Sir Ian and I said to him, “Do you like being called Sir Ian?” “John,” he said, “I was bestowed this title and it was very nice, but my name is Ian.” He’s a lovely guy. I had a good time doing that.
JAMES
What qualities do you think make a good actor so mesmerizing to an audience?
JOHN
Less is more and I think it’s that magical connection you have with another actor when you walk on stage. It’s not so much about the character as it’s about you as an individual. I mean, from a personal point of view when you walk out on stage the audience lifts you and to me that makes a big difference. If you’ve got an audience there – then that magic starts to happen.
John Craggs
John Craggs in “Bad First Impression” Directed by Daniel Harding
Nosferatu in “Silent Movie” – Kelloggs Crunchy Nut Commercial – Producers: Rattling Stick Directed by Daniel Kleinman
Merriman in “The Importance of Being Earnest” (Online Performance) UK Actors Support Network Directed by James Hillier.
“Victor” in – The Seagull – Another Way Theatre Co. (At the Minack Theatre, Cornwall) Directed by Chris Chambers
John Craggs as Tony in “The Crock” by Steve Gough Producer Pentameters Theatre, Hampstead, Directed by John Dunne
Simeon Diggs in “Drowning on Dry Land” Producer Michael Ross (Bourneyack Theatre Co at Wimbledon Studio Theatre) Directed by Paul Tate.
JAMES
One of the things that is a big part of being an actor is of course doing auditioning. So, I’m kind of curious, how do you approach an audition? What strategies do you use that have helped you over the years?
JOHN
Well, it depends. I mean, as you probably know, a lot of what’s happening now and especially because of the pandemic and because of lockdown and not being able to be in the room as such, which you know, I miss – and a lot of actors miss – we do things called self-tapes. So basically, my agent will send me something and then I need to film it.
And I see an audition as a job in itself. Which means that I don’t look ahead. You look at the script, familiarize yourself with it. Get the essence of what you’ve got to say. Try to memorize as much as you possibly can but don’t let the words get in the way of the character. If I’ve got quite a bit of time, and if it’s from a play, then obviously I’ll make it my business to look the play up and read about the characters and how my character fits into that scene. And then David Cleverley, my partner, very kindly films it for me. The audition, the casting, the self-tape, that is a job in itself. If you get the job that’s great. If somebody else gets it, you shake their hand and you move on.
JAMES
Well, speaking of auditioning Daniel Craig is ending his run as James Bond. So, in a what-if world would you be interested in playing Bond or would you be more interested in playing a Bond villain?
JOHN
Oh, a villain. Most definitely. I’m too bloody old for James Bond. No, it definitely has to be a villain unless of course they wanted an older James Bond’s brother or something. It definitely has to be a Bond villain.
JAMES
So, you are available for the next film then.
JOHN
Oh yes. Yes. So, keep that bit in. (Laughs) But of course, they tend to go for, shall we say, a more familiar face.
JAMES
One of the things I was thinking about, you know, there’s Twitter, there’s Instagram, there’s Facebook, there’s Tik Tok, there’s LinkedIn. There are all these social media platforms. And I’m wondering, what role do you think social media plays now days in the career of an actor?
JOHN
I don’t use Tik Tok. I very seldom go on LinkedIn. I’ll use Facebook. I set up my own account on Twitter @johncraggsactor and then of course I set up @network_actor as well. Twitter has given me and a lot of other people a lot of connections.
You have to be careful I think with social media and just watch what you say, but I do think it can create a lot of opportunities. And I think it’s important to connect with people because this is what a lot of this industry is about. Social media is not the real world, but I do think it does play quite a big part in connecting people. Not necessarily getting the work, but the connections can often lead to work.
It’s where people can connect and interact with each other and show their work and their headshots and what they’re doing and that’s been a very, very useful tool.
And, you know, I’ve had people come back and say to me, “Thank you very much. Through doing that I managed to get an agent.” Well, that’s great, but the hard work came from you. I just gave you that platform to do it. What I have to be very careful about, of course, is a lot of people initially thought that there was a team of people running it, but I run it solo as a fellow actor. It’s not a business. I don’t make a penny.
JAMES
One of the things you did as part of your support for the theatre communities, you started performing rehearsed readings of a variety of plays such as King Lear and The Importance of Being Earnest. How did that come about as part of what you’re doing?
JOHN
Right. I’m going to go back to August of 2020. God, it seems like years ago. And this idea was thrown up by my partner David. He said to me, “You said everyone’s getting bored. Everything’s getting shut down. You’re unable to do anything.”
It felt like our hands were tied, and it was literally like being put into a box. You know, we were caged. We couldn’t get out. And he said, “Have you ever thought of doing plays on Zoom or something?”
And I said, “No. Categorically, no way. It isn’t going to work.” And he said, “Well, what about speaking to Anna Carteret.” Anna is quite a well-known British actress and was very good friends with Laurence Olivier and she’s got a lot of contacts in the industry. He said, “Ask Anna. She knows a lot of people.” So, I phone Anna up and I said, “What do you think of this?” And she said, “Oh, it would be just so uplifting for so many of us.”
And so now we’ve done some Shakespeare. A Winter’s Tale, and Twelfth Night, and King Lear. And we’ve done Bram Stoker’s Dracula as an online reading raising funds for Acting for Others. And people loved it. And it’s been brilliant. And Anna Carter played Van Helsing, so we did a gender swap. She was nervous about it, but I said, “Look it just says Professor Van Helsing so let’s have you as Van Helsing.” And she did a terrific performance.
JAMES
And A Christmas Carol is the next rehearsed reading you’re doing. I’m wondering why do you think the story of Ebenezer Scrooge still appeals to people today?
JOHN
Well, I think it’s the essence of Christmas, you know. It’s just the whole atmosphere. And I think everybody knows an Ebenezer Scrooge. And Scrooge is, I think, almost another tragic figure like Macbeth, in the sense that he brought about his own doom and by the manner in which he was influenced by Jacob Marley and his cruelty to Mr. Fezziwig. You know, just taking Fezziwig’s business away from him because he was a kind man. It was horrible and I think everyone can relate to so much in that story. I really do. I implore people to watch it and take from it what you can and you’ll see that there’s something there for you within that story.
JAMES
So, A Christmas Carol uses past, present, and future to examine a man’s life. And I’m wondering if you could talk about theatre in Britain in terms of past, present, and future. What was theatre like pre-COVID? Where are we now? And what do you think things are going to look like next year and beyond?
JOHN
It’s never been an easy industry and a lot of people don’t like this terminology, but it is competitive. And I think pre-COVID there were still a lot of people all fighting for the same job.
But I did notice when COVID happened, when lockdown came, people seemed to unite. People seemed to support each other because we were all in no man’s land. We’re all in the same – not so much the same boat – there are some people that are on cruise liners and some people that are in little rowing boats, you know. But people started to connect with each other a lot more. And I think it was a case of, “Right, we’re all in a dreadful storm together. Let’s weather it together.”
And what has happened now is its transitioning – as things are beginning to open up – we’ve gone back to a little bit of the past, and I don’t think there will be a massive difference, but I hope a majority of people in the future will think about and remember how they were when the doors were closed. And I think if people can keep that unity between each other as much as possible we hopefully will have a better future.
JAMES
So, John, every year the Queen gives her Christmas message, and the Prime Minister gives his, the Pope chimes in as well. Politicians, artists, religious leaders, all have their Christmas messages. What is your Christmas message to your friends and family and the world this year?
JOHN
This time last year, it was almost nine months since lockdown happened and looking back over the last twelve months, there’s been a great deal of unrest and uncertainty, and loss of businesses. And of course, many lives have been lost because of COVID, and I think as I said before, it has in a way drawn many people closer together.
Christmas is a time for reflection. And although this is said by so many people, it’s so true. We need now more than ever to stand by family, friends, and the people who we work with.
And it is always good to remember, if you are with family at this time of the year, there is always going to be individuals who may be alone. They’re vulnerable. So, if you know of anyone who’s spending a festive period on their own, simply act, pick up the phone. A few kind words are priceless.
Speaking for my fellow actors and creatives I’ve said it has been and certainly continues to be a time of uncertainty for us all. On a good note, we are beginning to see some positive movements in the industry and all I can say is that I hope we continue to stick together and support one another. We shall prevail and come through the storm in 2022.
And finally, a little footnote to what I’ve said – a little something to think about. Christmas is a time for giving. But we must care and give to ourselves in order to be able to give back to others and not just at Christmas, but 365 days of the year.
CAST OF A CHRISTMAS CAROL
Nicholas Le Prevost as Ebenezer Scrooge Richard O’Callaghan as Ghost of Christmas Present Susannah May as Belle Jonathan Tafler as Fred John Craggs as Jacob Marley Henrietta Bess as Ghost of Christmas Past Christopher Beck as Bob Cratchit Sebastian Storey as Tiny Tim Anna Carteret as Mrs. Cratchit Catharine Humphrys as Fan
Directed by Jonathan Kydd Original Music by Steve Redfern
Shaun Chambers and Matthew Parker in The Invisible Man by H.G. Wells adapted for the stage by Derek Webb, at The Jack Studio Theatre, London.
“The Invisible Man is a gem… this wonderful story is chock-full of fifteen characters – excluding the titular Invisible Man – all brilliantly realized by a super-creative and multi-talented company of three actors undoubtedly putting the force into tour de force! This is a master class in extended acting and characterization… a smart, tirelessly inventive telling of this enduring tale.” ★★★★★ The Review Chap
That’s just one of several four and five-star reviews for playwright Derek Webb’s adaptation of The Invisible Man by H.G. Wells which had a highly successful run in London at the Jack Studio Theatre a few months before COVID shut things down. In addition to being a prolific and successful playwright, Derek is also the founder of the Pint-sized Plays Festival which presents plays in Pubs during the Tenby Arts Festival and culminates in a script slam presentation on stage at Theatr Gwaun in Fishguard, Wales.
Now almost two years after The Invisible Man last appeared – or didn’t appear on stage – theatres are starting to cautiously welcome patrons back to live performances. I contacted Derek at the end of August to chat with him about his writing and this year’s Pint-sized Plays Festival which features favourite plays from previous years including my own ten-minute comedy Never Give Up.
Playwright Derek Webb
JAMES HUTCHISON
I read that since 2001 you’ve lived in North Pembrokeshire, and I’m wondering what’s the community like – the people – the culture – what is it about the area that made you want to make this home?
DEREK WEBB
Well, we lived in Surrey near London, and we had been down to Pembrokeshire many times on holiday. I was working as a freelance copywriter with some companies down in Swansea and Cardiff, and I used to come down to South Wales quite often, and property prices down here were about a tenth of what they were in London, of course, and we found a house and fell in love with it, and we decided to move down.
We’re in North Pembrokeshire which is predominantly Welsh-speaking. It’s the language of the home. But we found it absolutely charming. And they were just lovely people and very welcoming and not standoffish at all. We just loved the people and love the place.
JAMES
You’re a playwright and author and a poet and so when you go to the theatre what are your hopes when you’re sitting there and the lights are going down and the curtain is about to rise.
DEREK
There are plays which you can watch and it’s like you’re looking through a window at it, and there are other plays where you’re actually there. You’re actually taken away. And those stories are the ones that stick in my memory. And it’s such a wonderful thing because it’s live. Because it changes night by night, and because it can be totally immersive and involving. Unlike cinema or television, there’s no actual barrier at all. It’s live. It’s life.
JAMES
Is there a play or two that you can share with us that sticks in your memory?
DEREK
Tom Stoppard’s Arcadia is just wonderful. I think it’s probably my favourite play actually. There’s layer upon layer upon layer of things happening. It’s in two different time frames, but things coalesce at the end. It’s quite magical.
And another play that sticks in my memory is David Mamet’s Oleanna which is actually running in London at the moment. I remember seeing it a good few years ago now with Lia Williams and David Suchet. And it’s very, very relevant now because of the #MeToo movement. It’s that sort of thing. The university professor and the student, and turning tables and not knowing, as an audience, which one to back. It’s wonderfully involving. Those are the two that sort of strike me immediately.
JAMES
How did the idea for the Pint-sized Plays Festival come to you?
DEREK
Tenby is a small seaside town in Pembrokeshire. And each year they have an arts festival which is fairly low-key. There are two or three proper venues, and they have talks and music and a few other things. It’s not a big festival. It’s just a week.
I’d been involved with theatre companies writing and acting and directing, and I felt that the theatre world still seemed to be very elitist. And the inspiration for the idea was to try and create something that took theatre literally to the people.
I was talking with a committee member of the Tenby Arts Festival, Chris Sierwald, and the idea was about doing plays in actual pubs and not pub theatres. That was the important distinction. Not in a pub theatre. So, not in a dedicated space, but actually doing it in the pub itself – in the bar area. And we thought we’d just try it. So we started a competition and had a hundred and fifty-odd entries or whatever, which was quite good from a standing start, I thought. And we ended up with six winners and four runners up. The idea was that we’d run the six winners in pubs in Tenby over two nights, and then all ten plays would go up to a theatre in North Fishguard where we’d have a script slam, where the audience gets to vote for their favourite play and favourite script.
Chris, my contact at the Tenby Arts Festival, who was well known in the town, stood up and said, “Ladies and gentlemen we’re going to do these plays here in the pub.” And then, with a lot of trepidation, I stood up and said, “And the first play we’re doing is – and announced the play.” And what was amazing was that this pub that was really busy with a lot of people talking went quiet and they listened to the play. I have to admit I was surprised at how well it went down – and relieved! These weren’t theatre audiences, you know. These were pub people. Out for a drink.
Gary Crane as Todd Sparks and Ben Gabel as Nigel Davenport in Never Give Up by James Hutchison at the 2017 Pint-sized Plays Festival
JAMES
So, what type of play works really well in a pub?
DEREK
Mainly comedies but we had a play called, Sorry, which was basically two monologues to the audience really. There’s a woman talking about how this kid had broken into her home and he’d stolen, and then there was a monologue from the kid, and at the end of the play there’s a scene where the two meet for a sort of reconciliation because he’d been arrested, and it turns out that he’s actually her son. It worked really well. I was worried about putting that one up because most of the things have been comedies, but it worked, and subsequently we’ve done a few dramas and, by and large, they have worked as well. The audience has been appreciative. Which is extraordinary because if you asked a lot of these people, “When did you last go to the theatre?” They’d say, “I’ve never been to a theatre.” And yet they were there obviously understanding and enjoying the play.
JAMES
How has COVID impacted things?
DEREK
In 2020 COVID hit here in March by which time the competition was underway. So, the Tenby Arts Festival decided to cancel. They weren’t going to run anything. So, we ended up videoing all the plays and all ten winners went up on YouTube.
This year we didn’t have a competition, and we’re actually in rehearsals at the moment because we’re going to run the Pick of Pint-sized Plays – which isn’t the best of – it just happens to be plays that the actors and directors have done in the past and said they’d like to do again.
Interestingly, one of the plays we’re running is called Pub Play. And it’s written by a guy called Doc Watson. And it was a runner-up in the very first year. It didn’t run in the pubs, but it ran in the script slam, and it won the script slam.
And two or three days ago on a Facebook post Doc was talking about his playwriting, and he mentioned Pint-sized Plays and said that he’d been working in theatre as a stage manager for years and years and years but had never actually written a play other than a few odd sketches. And this play, called Pub Play, which he wrote for Pint-sized Plays was his first play, and subsequently he’s gone on to write other things.
And that’s a great thing about Pint-sized. It has actually introduced a lot of people into writing and writers into writing 10-minute plays, and many have gone on to write other stuff which is really terrific. We’re proud of that.
And then hopefully next year we’ll do another competition and get back to where we were. That’s the basic plan.
Jackie Williams and Nick Wears in Mrs Thrale Lays on Tea by Rob Taylor in the 2018 Pint-sized Plays Script Slam at Theatr Gwaun in Fishguard, Wales.
JAMES
You’ve been writing for many years. And you write plays and novels and poetry and screenplays and I’m wondering when you look at your body of work now do you notice in your own writing any reoccurring themes or topics that you like to explore?
DEREK
A lot of my stuff is comedy. I’ve done some biographical plays and that interests me in terms of taking somebody’s life and actually trying to distill it into a ninety-minute piece of theatre.
JAMES
One of your plays is Call Me Dusty which is about Dusty Springfield. Tell me how that play came about and how that project developed.
DEREK
We decided to set up a small theatre company called Ignition in 2012, and it just so happened that 2013 was going to be the 50th anniversary of Dusty Springfield’s first solo single – I Only Want to Be With You. So, I started researching and went through eleven or twelve biographies, and I listened to more and more of her music, and I really got into it.
She was absolutely extraordinary because she was this very self-conscious very young sort of convent schoolgirl who wanted to sing and to be a great star, and she was also a lesbian, and she was trying to balance these two things in the ‘60s and the ‘50s.
Now, what I didn’t want to do was a musical. I wanted to do a drama. So, all the music in the play is Dusty Springfield herself singing. And the actress playing Dusty Springfield doesn’t actually sing. There’s one time where she’s doing her first appearance on Top of the Pops, which was her first solo single. And at the time on the television show they mimed. They didn’t have live acts. So, for us to have her miming I Only Want to Be With You was exactly what happened on Top of the Pops.
Jessica Sandry as Dusty Springfield in the Ignition Theatre production of Call Me Dusty by Derek Webb
JAMES
Not too long ago you did an adaptation of The Invisible Man by H.G. Wells.
DEREK
With The Invisible Man, I wrote it so that three actors could play all the parts like in The 39 Steps – so each actor plays five characters. And it was terrific fun because the audience can see what’s happening. They’re in on the jokes. There’s a point when the police catch the Invisible Man and they manage to slap these handcuffs on the Invisible Man’s wrist. But, beside the chain holding the handcuffs together, there was a piece of stiff wire, so they stood out from the policemen’s wrist and look like they’re attached to the Invisible Man, and the policeman gets pulled across stage. And that worked really well. The actor playing the policeman was actually a magician. He added lots of little magical things into the script. We toured it around Wales to about ten venues and then Jack Studio, which is a Pub Theatre in London, took it up and ran it for about three weeks just prior to COVID hitting.
I also adapted The Lady Vanishes from the book that the Hitchcock film was based on – which has proved very successful and it’s being produced by Bacchus Theatre of Canada in October as an online production. I’m looking forward to hearing that.
Andrew Lennon, Stefan Pejic, and James Scannell in the original Ignition Theatre production of The Invisible Man by H.G. Wells adapted for the stage by Derek Webb
JAMES
I read that the first stage play you did was Dog Eat Dog which is a play about an advertising executive who moves in with a group of homeless people. That was in 1998. How did that play evolve? And what was it like going to opening night and seeing your first production on stage?
DEREK
Scary, because you’re thinking, “Oh my god.” And exhilarating, of course, at the same time.
As a kid I wrote a lot of poetry, and I think I might have written a play, and I started a novel during my first marriage, and then I went into advertising and ended up as a creative director, which was great, but what that did is take all the creative energy away. So, I mean, I was writing all day – and by the time I got home I was absolutely knackered.
When I got to my second marriage is when I started writing plays again. My wife, Briony, said, “You really should try writing again.” And so, I started writing some radio plays. And I wrote Dog Eat Dog for an amateur company in London. South London Theatre. They’re a big company, and they have a lot of directors and very good actors and do a lot of good stuff, and a friend, Marcelle Clow, was directing and – I think she probably said, “Could you write something?” And I wrote Dog Eat Dog and that was the first stage play as such. And it went down well, and that was the start!
JAMES
So, you write both drama and comedy, and I’m wondering if the process differs depending on whether or not you’re in the world of comedy or the world of drama?
DEREK
I structure everything to start with, so I know where I’m going. I know people when writing novels go, “I’ll just go where the novel takes me.” Well yeah, but I actually want to know where I’m going. And that discipline is certainly the same for both drama and comedy.
The Agatha Crusty series, which is probably the most successful series I’ve done, started because a local drama company had done a couple of my one-acts and liked them and the director said, “Could you write a murder mystery for me to direct?”
And I sat down with Briony to try and come up with some ideas, and this goes back to Pint-sized Plays in a funny way as well, because they were an amateur company – and their audience is not a theatre-going audience. What they do is watch television or film. That’s their point of reference. Not the theatre.
So, in trying to write something we went through loads of television-type ideas – reality TV – quiz shows – whatever. And then we got onto detectives and Miss Marple and Hercule Poirot and suddenly the name Agatha Crusty popped into my brain – out of nowhere and – that’s it – Agatha Crusty!
At the time I was working on a committee to save a local theatre here in Pembrokeshire which the council wanted to close. I was on the committee, and we thankfully managed to save the theatre. But being on that committee totally did my head in – and the first – Agatha Crusty is called Agatha Crusty and the Village Hall Murders and what happens is the Village Hall Committee gets murdered one by one by one. Which was my way of exacting vengeance on them you see.
Is this a clue? Steve Martin, Heather Harris, and Mike Rutter in the 3A, Milton Keynes production of Derek Webb’s Agatha Crusty and the Village Hall Murders
Now writing subsequent Agatha Crustys you have to structure it well because you need to know who did the murder and how they did it and then work backwards. Apparently, sometimes Agatha Christie herself used to write a novel and she’d get to the end of the book and she would change the murderer and then have to go back through the book and put in clues to make that character the murderer. So, whilst Agatha Crusty and The Village Hall Murders might be a comedy and Call Me Dusty might be a drama the process is actually very very similar in both regards.
Sometimes though serendipity takes over halfway through something, and an idea gets introduced, and that coincides with something else, and that links to something else, and the brain suddenly has all these things there and bing! Literally, out of the blue, the thing can go off on a different course. And it can just coalesce in a wonderful way and sometimes when that happens you get to the point where you can’t type fast enough.
There’s a series I do called Roy Brown, and I’ve written about six Roy Brown comedies now, and there’s Roy and his friends and when I’m writing it they really are talking to me. It’s absolutely wonderful. I just write down what they say.
And in the first one I wrote Roy Brown has this idea that the bluestones, which are the small stones in the middle of Stonehenge which are from Wales, should be returned to Wales like the Elgin Marbles should be returned to Greece. I wrote that back around 2000 and to get some publicity I sent some letters into the local papers purportedly coming from Roy Brown saying, “Stonehenge back to Wales.”
Then a friend in Cardiff rang me and said, “Have you seen the Western Mail today?” The Western Mail is sort of the national newspaper of Wales. I said, “No.” And there on the front page, it said “Pembrokeshire Group Wants Stonehenge Stones Back.” And they’d been to a woman from English Heritage (the organization which runs Stonehenge) who nearly fainted when they told her this idea. They had also contacted a couple of politicians who were appalled at the idea and even ran a leader in the paper decrying Roy Brown. But the thing was, they hadn’t checked the source at all. They’d just worked off this letter: the letter I wrote for Roy Brown.
And I had to confess to the Pembrokeshire reporter, and I said – “It’s not true.” And she said, “I thought that. I told them they should check the story, but they didn’t.” Two days later they had to print a retraction which was “Pembrokeshire Playwright Confesses.” But then because of all the publicity we got a big audience.
Going Viral before Social Media with Roy Brown: Reclaiming Stonehenge
JAMES
So, Derek, we were talking about Dusty Springfield, and she’s been gone a long time, but in a sense, I suppose, we’re talking about legacy. She has this work and a legacy. Do you ever think about your own legacy and what you’d like for your own writing?
DEREK
What are you going to leave? I mean there are certainly things I want to write before I go. A couple of things I want to sort of explore. At the moment I’m writing a play about Richard Trevithick. He invented the steam engine – the railways. Not James Watt. Not the Stevensons. Trevithick had the very first working steam locomotive in Wales, in fact. And he was a fascinating character. Trevithick had loads of ideas, but he was absolutely useless at money, and he never got the fortune he thought he deserved. For some reason he never quite made it, and I’m trying to understand him.
That’s what it’s about – it’s exploring things – exploring people and motivations. And perhaps it’s trying to understand yourself, isn’t it? Maybe – you know – you’re writing things not just to explain things to other people but trying to explain things to yourself about yourself. I mean it’s the actor’s thing about when you’re playing a character – you don’t actually play the character you look for the character in yourself and express that because you actually bring the character out of you because it’s all in there somehow.
To find out more about playwright Derek Webb and his plays such as The Invisible Man, his series of comic Agatha Crusty Mysteries, or Roy Brown Comedies, among many others check out his website by following the link: Derek Webb Playwright.
This interview was conducted on August 21st 2021, and has been edited for length and clarity.
Because of COVID the Pint-sized Plays Festival ran a special show in 2021 featuring an evening of outstanding plays from past festivals.
A Night to Remember by Andrew Turner Carol: Jackie Williams Nigel: Gary Crane Marc: Roger Leese Directed by Cynthia Jennings Winner in 2016
Two Woofs for Yes by Neil Walden Brenda: Allison Butler Ted: Steve Butler Directed by Sarah Sherriff Runner Up in 2016
Bottle for a Special Occasion by Bill Kovacsik Martin: Bern Smith Judith: Jean Smith Runner Up in 2018
The Next Ivan Shiransky by Jim Geoghan Ida: Carol Macintosh Carl: Nick Wears Directed by Carol Macintosh Winner in 2020
Pub Play by Doc Watson Man: Roger Leese Woman: Jackie Williams Extra: Steve Butler Directed by Derek Webb Runner Up in 2008
The Emperor’s New Clothes by Derek Webb Dave: Nick Wears Brian: Adam Edgerley Pub Landlady: Sarah Sherriff Directed by Sarah Sherriff Runner Up in 2015
Vent by Gavin Harrison Lisa: Andrea Thomas Derek: Nick Wears Kelvin: Steve Butler Directed by Carol Macintosh Winner in 2014
Attack of the Killer Banana Spider by John Moorhouse Josh: Tom Wears Sol: JakeWears Directed by Bobbie Sheldrake Winner in 2015
A Little Scotchie by John Spooner Stephen: Bern Smith Rachel: Anna Munro Directed by Sarah Sherriff Runner Up in 2020
Mrs. Thrale Lays on Tea! By Rob Taylor Mrs. Thrale: Jackie Williams Dr. Johnson: Nick Wears Polly: Melissa Pettitt Directed by Derek Webb Winner in 2018
NOTE: ‘Winner’ or ‘Runner Up’ refers to the writing competition, not necessarily the Script Slam
Director of Photography Tony Metchie and David Winning on the set of The Convenient Groom
“I think actors are always vastly better when they’re moving and when they realize in the course of shooting a scene that because you’ve got the Steadicam following them around they can start to forget the self-conscious side of acting. I do that with kids all the time too. Kids love to move. A Steadicam frees people up. It’s almost like it takes away the fourth wall, because people can do whatever they normally do in life, and I just chase them. I love doing that. And I find definitely the performances are much more real and organic.”
What do cannibals feasting on blood-thirsty vampires in Van Helsing and lonely singles finding love in Hallmark’s A December Bride have in common? They’re just two of the many stories film and television director David Winning has brought to the screen.
Comedy, romance, horror – David Winning does it all. In a career spanning more than 40 years David has worked on 29 different television shows including Are You Afraid of the Dark, Van Helsing, Andromeda, Stargate Atlantis, Todd and the Book of Pure Evil, Breaker High, and Earth Final Conflict. His film work has ranged from thrillers, such as Exception to the Rule starring Kim Cattrall, Sean Young and Eric McCormack, to several romantic Hallmark Channel movies such as Tulips in Spring, A December Bride, and most recently Riddle Me Dead, The 27 Hour Day, and Blake Shelton’s Time for Us to Come Home for Christmas starring Lacey Chabert.
David began his filmmaking journey shooting Super 8 movies in the backyard with his friends when he was 10 years of age. At 18, he shot his first short drama Sequence and expanded the plotline into his first feature film, STORM, produced on a shoestring budget in the summer of 1983. That film led to work on his first television series, Friday the 13th, and three Canadian Emmy Award nominations. Other awards include a national Director’s Guild award for Outstanding Drama, a 2020 Leo Award for best direction in a television movie for A Summer Romance and a 2012 Leo for best direction in a Music, Comedy or Variety Program or Series for Todd and the Book of Pure Evil.
I talked with David about his inspirations, his early days writing, producing, and directing independent features, his transition into working on movies and television shows for other producers, his approach to working with actors, and what type of work environment he creates on set for his cast and crew.
JAMES HUTCHISON
When you were 9 or 10 years old you started out doing magic shows, and then you discovered cinema, and I’m wondering if you see a connection between that initial interest in magic and your decision to start experimenting with film.
DAVID WINNING
When I was 8 we went to Disneyland, and I was begging my parents to buy me a ventriloquist dummy. We went in ’69 for the turn of the new decade – Here Come the Seventies, because I remember being there with my parents on New Year’s Eve and all the fireworks are going off and we went into the magic store – and I swear I bought a ventriloquist dummy from Steve Martin who was working there – I’ve seen pictures of him in his first job working Main Street Magic shop right off Main Street in Disneyland. It was the same guy, and I thought isn’t that weird to think that Steve Martin may have sold me my dummy.
So, I was doing ventriloquist shows and really bad comedy at school and at libraries and I was also kind of doing magic shows. And on my 10th birthday, my dad got me a little Instamatic M 22 Kodak movie camera, and all I wanted to do for the first couple of years after getting that camera was special effects. I did all these double exposure, pixilation and stop-motion films of us driving on the lawn, and animation stuff and that’s all I cared about. I didn’t think about movies as an art form or anything, I just thought about extending the world of magic into movies and photography.
And I loved going to movies, but I never really thought I’d be the kind of person to tell stories. I thought I’d be the special effects guy. You know, I’ll do all the science fiction effects and I’ll make the Starship Enterprise fly on Star Trek. So, magic and ventriloquism and puppetry and all that stuff kind of led into the narrative interest in movies. And after making films for a couple of years I thought, “Wait a minute – maybe there’s a way I can tell stories.”
JAMES
So, what do you think is the magic of movies? What do you think when you hear that term used? How would you define it?
DAVID
When you ask me that question I have to think back to what I thought was magical about movies as a kid, because it’s been so long since I remember sitting in the theatre and just forgetting time. The last time I can remember the audience just kind of fading away and getting lost in the whole experience of movies was when I was a kid and I used to go to all those crappy monster movies that used to run at the Tivoli and the Plaza theatre in Calgary in the ’70s. And then, because you’re a kid, you get so fascinated by that magic that you want to find out how it’s made and in the process of learning how to make movies and spending your life trying to transport others and give them that experience, you ruin it for yourself because you’ve seen behind the curtain.
JAMES
So, I’m wondering if you think back to that time when you were that age can you remember what it was like to sit in that dark cinema for the first time and watch 2001 A Space Odyssey.
DAVID
I must have spent a year and a half – off and on – going to the North Hill Cinerama and seeing 2001 because it was the one Cinerama screen in town. And I used to be in that giant theatre by myself just absorbed and fascinated by 2001. It’s still my favourite movie of all time, but as I’ve gotten older I’ve gotten tired of trying to explain why it’s my favourite movie because it was such a personal thing for me as a kid.
I love Kubrick. I think Kubrick’s a genius. I think that’s one of the last times I can remember feeling transported by a movie, but it’s also because 2001 is such an unusual, bizarre, visual experience that I think it’s something that transports a lot of people, just because it’s so odd and different and strangely paced, you know with beautiful imagery and stuff, but that’s kind of where it started for me – the germ of wanting to make movies and thinking of things in terms of narrative and storytelling.
JAMES
You know I think one of the strengths of 2001 and one of the reasons it still works and still fascinates is that it really tells so much of the story through visuals.
DAVID
Yup.
JAMES
There isn’t dialogue. We watch action. I suspect, because I’ve watched it recently again, that the reason it still holds your attention and still keeps you riveted and keeps you fascinated by what’s going on on-screen is because it has this sort of feeling of simplicity even though it was not necessarily simple to create.
DAVID
It’s a very simple storyline, but it’s about a huge, epic topic – the origin of mankind and the point of our existence. You know just huge, huge subject matter, but told in a very simple linear storyline.
It’s funny when you bring it up because I can remember sitting in this theatre. And it was almost like a private club because I’d go in and get a ticket and just sit there and there’d be nobody else in theatre and I’d just watch a matinee of 2001 and just be glued to it. I think I’ve seen the film sixty or seventy times, and there’s nothing like seeing it at the Cinerama. It’s a beautiful monumental epic film.
And then, strangely enough, when I was 16, I saw Star Wars for the first time in that same theatre. And I’m not the biggest Star Wars fan, but I appreciate the movie, and I remember I was a Star Wars fan from the point of view of being fascinated by George Lucas being this young wunderkind and being on the cover of Time Magazine and basically owning the summer of 1977.
I went with a bunch of my friends and we all sat in the front row and after the movie we came out of the theatre and I asked this friend of mine what did you think? And he said, “Wow, that was great.” And I said, “What other films have you liked?” And he said, “That’s the first time I’ve ever seen a movie in a theatre.”
And do you remember what an explosive kind of visceral experience it was to see Star Wars? Because the effects were so crisp and it was just so different and amazing and fantastical. Can you imagine the very first time you see a movie and it’s that movie? I can’t imagine – I just can’t imagine how much more powerful that would be than it was for the rest of us.
JAMES
We met each other at the University of Calgary on the first day of orientation. We were both in the drama department.
DAVID
This is like forty years ago.
JAMES
Yeah, this is ages ago, and one of the other filmmakers you admire is John Carpenter and I remember we’d sometimes be at the university late at night, and in the music department they had rooms where they had pianos and I remember you playing the theme to Halloween on the piano and hearing it echo down the dark corridors late at night. And that film really permeated the culture. I mean everybody knew the theme, even if they hadn’t seen the film. What do you think it was about that very small budget film that captured the attention of the movie-going public at the time?
DAVID
You see my connection to Halloween is so personal. I don’t know if it affected everybody else as much as it did me, because when Halloween came out in ’78 I was 17 and we hadn’t done Sequence yet, and I was just getting out of high school, and this guy comes along and he makes this little $300,000 movie. Up until very recently, it was the most successful independent movie of all time. It got replaced by Blair Witch Project, I think, in the ’90s and probably something else since, but when Halloween came out – I think he produced it for $320,000 and it made, like, $51 million.
JAMES
In 1978 dollars.
DAVID
Yes, and it was such an incredible inspiration for all of us because we’re thinking about doing things independently and getting things rolling and trying to get Sequence off the ground and then ultimately STORM. I just remember having this kind of brazen attitude, thinking, “If this guy can do it, then I can do it.” And I loved Carpenter, and I still love Carpenter. I think Carpenter’s a genius too.
I’ve always said, “Kubrick and Carpenter are like two ends of the spectrum. Kubrick’s a visual genius and he’s an intelligent filmmaker and Carpenter mastered putting style into bubble-gum horror movies and low budget sci-fi.” I just love his style.
He directed Starman and Escape from New York and The Thing, and I think The Thing is probably one of his greatest movies. I saw it in the theatre as a sneak preview at the Showcase Grand downtown. It was the second movie with Conan the Barbarian, which I watched, and I was really tired and then The Thing came up and just exploded. It’s one of my favourite horror, action, sci-fi movies ever. I just think it’s so well done. And one of the reasons I love it so much is because it’s not CG it’s physical effects, and I just found that so much scarier.
I think what Carpenter probably tapped into with Halloween in ’78 was that he had to hide things because he had no money. It’s like the shark in Jaws. You know there’s a monster there, but you never see it. And so, it’s a memorable scare when you do see it.
I remember you were with me when I saw Psycho for the first time at the Plaza, and I can remember sitting in a packed theatre. I’d never seen the movie before. I’d never seen it on TV. And I remember the moment where the detective is climbing the stairs – you know Martin Balsam – and it cuts to that overhead shot and mama comes rushing out from the door, and I just had this rush of adrenaline, and I was terrified, and the whole crowd’s being absolutely terrified by that movie and going, “Holy crap!”
I think John Carpenter used to do a lot of that with his early stuff. He was really good at visual suspense, and there are famous moments that I love that I’ve stolen from him millions of times. Like the shot with the babysitter in the kitchen – you know – walking from one counter to the other counter and there’s nobody in the background, and then she comes back, and he’s standing in the background, and just the static stillness of that was so scary. And I think when I was doing my first films, Sequence and STORM, I just lifted a lot of that imagery because I loved it so much.
Brad Fernie as the Mechanic, Camera Assistant Douglas Craik, Director David Winning, and Cinematographer Andrew Jaremko on the set of Sequence
JAMES
Do you think your own work has a certain style?
DAVID
Well, I’d probably have to only look at the films that I produced because there’s two paths to my career. There’s the independent stuff I produced that I had control over and then there’s the entire television career, where you’re making movies for somebody else. And I used to say that making movies is like trying to paint a picture and eight people are holding the paintbrush and helping you pick colours and telling you what’s wrong and what doesn’t work.
If I have a style somebody else will have to look at my work a hundred years after I’m dead and gone and say, “Oh, I see some link between all this,” because I can’t really see it anymore. I always feel like maybe this whole diversion into making other people’s movies for thirty years was supposed to bring me back to where I make my own films and actually have more control over it again.
JAMES
You’ve occasionally mentioned the desire to get back to doing those independent features, but man – that’s a long journey and a hard journey putting all the pieces together.
DAVID
In my 20s – when people are supposed to be starting families and having kids and beginning careers – I spent five years making one film, and then I spent another four years making the next film. And sometimes I think I’d love to get back to that because you have so much control over making your own projects, but at the same time, it’s really hard to raise money, and it’s hard to keep control anyway, because after I finished STORM and wanted to get it distributed I kept turning down offers for two years because people wanted to change stuff in it, and I was so idealistic in my 20s I thought, “No, you can’t change it. This is my film. I’m making this movie.”
And thank God, I held out for a decent offer from Cannon where they didn’t want to change anything but then at the end they wanted to change stuff because they said, “Here’s a quarter of a million bucks. How long is it?” “It’s 78 minutes.” “OK, deal’s off.” And there was this whole flurry of calls and I said, “Well, why don’t you advance me fifty thousand and I’ll go out and shoot more film?” And Golan-Globus and the Cannon people were like, “Yeah, whatever.” So, they advanced me the money and I ended up shooting and adding more to the film. So even with your own films before you can actually get them into the theatre you still have to make changes.
David Palffy, Tim Hollings, David Winning, and Thom Schioler First Day – Shooting STORM
JAMES
I’m going to go back a step to when you graduated high school and you had an interest in pursuing a film career and you initially enrolled in the Drama Department at the University of Calgary – and that wasn’t right for you, and I remember you telling me you looked at the Southern Alberta Institute of Technology, but that wasn’t right for you either.
DAVID
Do you remember the joke, Jim? I did the University of Calgary for three months, I did SAIT for three weeks, and I was going to do the police academy for three days.
After I bombed out at university, I went to the film course at SAIT, and I was there for literally two days. The guy came in to speak to all the new students in the program, and I won’t mention his name because he’s probably still around, but the guy came in and I was like, “I’m going to be a film maker. I’m going to be a film director. I’m coming here to SAIT and I’m going to make movies, and I’m going to be the next Hitchcock.” And the guy came in and said, “Okay, welcome to the Cinema, Television, Stage, and Radio Arts program. If you’re here to make the next great Canadian feature film and win an Oscar you’re in the wrong place. Our goal here is to place you people in television and radio news.”
And I quit. I just said, “I quit.” And I went right to the Student Union Office and the guy came in and said, “David, this is Mr. so and so, and it’s his first day.” And he said, “Hey Dave congratulations! Welcome to SAIT. Come in and we’ll talk. It’s my first day and all I want to do is interact with the students. What can I help you with?” And I said, “I’d like to quit.” And this poor guy’s face just sunk.
JAMES
A memorable first day. Well, that led you to have a conversation with your father about your plans, right?
DAVID
Yeah, I broke his heart.
JAMES
But your Dad was a pretty amazing guy. He supported your dreams, and he was willing to let you follow your path, and I just wonder if you could talk about where do you think that courage came from for you to follow your path and how did your father support that dream?
DAVID
I was 22, and I was raising money, and I was going to go to film school, and my Dad was going to help support me. I had a job as a bouncer and a ticket taker and a waiter and a bartender and all these little odds and ends jobs.
And in 1983 I had this inspiration. It was like a lightning bolt and I think I wrote a note in my diary that said, “I’m going to make my own film. I’m going to take all this money that we’ve saved for film school and buy film stock, and I’m going to go and shoot a really low ratio like three to one, and we’re going to literally force this film into existence.” Which is how I always describe STORM. Because I was so naive. I had no idea.
But I got so excited by the idea of being able to completely control a project that I remember not sleeping for weeks. “Oh my God, I can do this! I’ve had a breakthrough. I’ll write the movie, and I’ll go out and get friends and I’ll get Jim and we’ll get everybody, and we’ll hire a TV news cameraman, and we’ll go shoot the film for four weeks and we’ll shoot from dawn till the sun goes down and it’s completely mine and I make all the choices and it’s all my decisions and if it fails, I’ll just go do something else. I’ll go work in a bookstore or something.”
And that’s what led to STORM and that’s why four or five years of my 20’s was spent trying to gradually raise money to make this little epic movie. And all through that, my Dad was completely supportive, and you know he lent me money, and he charged me interest for it. And then years later when STORM sold and I paid my Dad back – every dime plus all the interest – he gave me all the interest back as a present.
And he lived long enough to see STORM, and he was proud of it. You know, I remember he came to the Uptown Theater when it ran in ’87 – when it opened in theatres, and he was with my Mom and my Mom told me years later that he sat down and he said, “Oh my God, I hope I like this.” Because he spent so much time pushing for it, and by the end he was clapping, and he loved it.
David Winning & Dr. Martin D. Winning
JAMES
That’s great. I know I know your Dad’s been gone a long time.
DAVID
Yeah, thirty years.
JAMES
Thirty years. What would you want him to know about your film career now?
DAVID
You know when my dad was getting sick and towards the end I’d say in my 29-year-old stupid juvenile way, “Dad, you can’t die. You’ve got to stay around. I’ve got to win my Oscar. You’ve got to see that.” And he used to say, “Well, if there’s any truth to what they say, I think I’ll know about it.”
So, I guess I’ve always sort of felt like our parents look down on us and somehow they’re aware of what we’re doing because, really, you know I mean, I had this crazy drive to make movies, but if it hadn’t been for my dad that wouldn’t have happened. And it’s not like most people think that he paid for everything but it was more about him going against the grain, because he grew up in a very academic world, you know, he had a PhD in Chemical Engineering. And my brother was in social work and my mom was a home economics major and dietitian, and so here I come along as the black sheep in the family and I was going to do something different.
And I sometimes think you’d never be able to do what you did in your 20s if you didn’t have this ridiculous bravado confidence and so, getting back to why aren’t I doing independent features now – it’s really hard. And I’m not sure we have enough energy in our 50s and 60s as we had in our 20s. I suppose I could do it, but when other people are raising money and working with corporations and all the distribution is so streamlined and you’re working with great people, you don’t really want to go back to those days where you’re hiring the news crew to make a movie.
Stan Kane in STORM
JAMES
So, one of the fun things about getting to do STORM and getting it sold is you get to go to a premiere. What was that like?
DAVID
Oh, it was a riot. It was so much fun. It was pretty cool to actually get a movie out there and be seen. And the premiere was fun just because it was lots of family and friends. And it kind of taught me a lot about how the movie business works although everything’s changed now. But back then movies would go through this incredible cycle of a lot of hype and it’s like Barnum and Bailey and they open on Friday and then they’re gone in a week because they don’t do enough business, unless they’re a blockbuster, obviously, and they go on for months and months. STORM lasted, I think, three weeks, which I thought was amazing. But I think they kind of hung onto it because it was Canadian content, so it was playing at Westbrook and at the Showcase downtown and I took a lot of pictures of the marquees.
JAMES
And then twenty years later you did a retrospective and had a celebration and a screening and you brought the cast and crew together and did a Q&A with the audience. What was that like?
DAVID
It was great. One of the reasons I did it was because the older actors in STORM Stan Kane and Harry Freedman and Lawrence Elion were getting on and I thought it was a good reason to get everybody together and have a party, right? So why not? It was like going down memory lane but it’s not a very Canadian thing to do. Part of the reason Canadians have struggles with the film business is that they don’t promote themselves.
I think that if I’d grown up in the States I would have gone a lot further in my career a lot earlier, because it’s kind of an American sensibility to promote yourself and be big and bold, and to get your stuff out there and to ask for more, and to come back and get noticed and to get doors slammed in your face and to keep going back and keep knocking. That doesn’t happen in Canada. And I think when I was growing up I was a little more American in terms of just pushing and not taking no for an answer. And you need that in the beginning when you’re firing up your career. You need that adrenaline when you’re starting out just to get you up the mountain and get these things made.
Stan Kane, Harry Freedman, Lawrence Elion – 20th Anniversary Screening of STORM
JAMES
So, STORM led to you doing some television work. You got hired to direct a Friday the 13th episode. So, you’ve made your independent film and now you’re going to be in charge of a much larger crew. And you’re walking onto a show where people know each other. They’re working on the series, and I’m sort of wondering, what were you feeling and doing the night before you walked onto the set? And then what was the reality of actually going to work that day and calling action for the first time on a network television show?
DAVID
Scary. What was I doing the night before? Throwing up. Yeah, STORM got me into the Directors Guild and the Directors Guild had a little booklet and they put like a page for each director and stuff. And in the late ’80s, they were doing Friday the 13th and they were in their first season and one of the directors fell out and J. Miles Dale who’s gone on to produce Shape of Water and stuff, years later was one of the producers and he’s flipping through the book and he sees ‘Winning’ and he goes, “Sounds positive. Let’s hire this guy.”
So, I literally got flown to Toronto, and I was 26. And I got off the plane, got in the studio, and they’re like, “How old are you?” And I think I said, “34.” And they’re like, “Okay. You’ve done this before, right?” No. But you never tell anybody you haven’t done stuff because otherwise why would they hire you?
And I remember walking onto this amazing old house set that, I think, was built by David Cronenberg’s designer Carol Spier for one of his movies, and they had made it into the old Curious Goods store. And I was terrified, and I remember asking the first AD will you walk me around and show me stuff. And it’s a scary experience going from a crew of 20 to a crew of 180 people. And I remember asking the first AD, David McLeod, who I flew out from Toronto to work with me on the second feature Killer Image – and I asked him, “Where have you never put the camera?”
Even then I was thinking, I have to make this different – I have to make whatever I do different. I was so ballsy even then, I was like, “What have you never done here?” He told me where they usually put all the cameras and I made sure I didn’t do anything like that because you have to try to find a way to stand out.
You know, the weird kind of schizophrenic existence of directing television is that you have to stand out, but you also have to fit in. It’s not like you can come in and change the whole storyline of a series. There’s a Bible and a certain way they do things. And they don’t really want you to rock the boat, but at the same time, if you don’t stand out, how are you going to look any different than the other guys?
So that was my big thing. And so, long story short, I did three episodes of Friday the 13th, desperately trying to make them different. And I ended up getting Canadian Emmy nominations for all three episodes so somehow I was able to make those shows stand out. And I remember walking in and they said, “Here’s the script.” And it was about killer bees and the director who left actually quit because he didn’t want to do the script. And the cool thing about when you’re a young guy is you get this stuff and you’re like, “I don’t care what it is I’m going to make an amazing show out of this.”
So, I was really proud of the Friday the 13th episode I did with Art Hindle and Tim Webber. I was thrilled and terrified all at the same time. It was really scary, but one of the coolest moments is when they pay you, because it’s very lucrative and you realize, “Oh, my God I’m 26 years old, and I’m making this much money.”
And I thought, “I’m off to the races. I’m a TV director now.” And then, you know, years go by, and eventually you get to a slump, where it’s like, “Oh, you mean, I’m not just going to be handed money to do these shows?” Because it’s tricky. Every year in my career has been a tricky thing to negotiate. Every year has had its own challenge.
John D. LeMay, Louise Robey, and Chris Wiggins – Paramount’s Friday the 13th The Series
JAMES
So, you’ve directed all types of genres. You’ve done horror, romance, suspense, and comedy. When you look at all those different stories that you’ve brought to the screen are there any particular story elements that you feel every story shares?
DAVID
Well, you know, in one year, I’ll be doing Hallmark Christmas movies at the same time as I’m doing gruesome post-apocalyptic vampires for Netflix. And I always think everything’s the same. Kid shows are the same. Erotic thrillers are the same. The Hallmark Christmas movies, the vampire series, the westerns – they’re all the same and you’re just trying to pull people into a story, so they care about it.
So, the most important part of anything you do is the first ten minutes, because you need to pull people into the stories and make it somehow personal for them, even if it’s science fiction, or running from vampires, something that would never happen to them, you have to make the stories personal to people or else they don’t care.
I’ve spent 30 years leaning really heavily on Steadicams and the roaming process and so if a hundred years from now someone’s looking at my movies, they may notice that the camera never stops moving. So the Steadicam actually becomes like a third actor in a love story. So, for example, you have the characters actually dancing with the camera, and it’s so cool to me how it’s shorthand for me to pull people into a story.
And jumping back to the Psycho reference I was talking about earlier – remember how Hitchcock tried to give everybody this really disturbing point of view of Norman Bates – so that the audience actually felt like the murderer. The audience is spying on Marian in the shower. The audience is seeing Martin Balsam falling backwards with the knife. And that was disturbing in the ’60s, because it’s like, “Oh, my God, I’m seeing this from the perspective of a maniac.” But that’s one of the tricks I’ve always tried to do, is to make the camera kind of a character in the shows.
David Winning, Lauren McNamara, and Julie Gonzalo on location for Falling for Vermont
JAMES
In terms of directing actors does giving them movement help their performance?
DAVID
Totally, I think actors are always vastly better when they’re moving and when they realize in the course of shooting a scene that because you’ve got the Steadicam following them around they can start to forget the self-conscious side of acting. I do that with kids all the time too. Kids love to move. A Steadicam frees people up. It’s almost like it takes away the fourth wall, because people can do whatever they normally do in life, and I just chase them. I love doing that. And I find definitely the performances are much more real and organic.
JAMES
So, I was wondering about the importance of promises and payoffs in terms of putting together a film or a television show? Do you think in terms of promises and payoffs? And if you do, how does that influence things in terms of telling the story and shooting it?
DAVID
I’m not really a writer, right? I’m a director, so I’m basically always interpreting someone else’s writing. But when I read movie of the week scripts, I have to kind of draw on the writer side of me to improve them. One of the revelations I made early in my career was when I realized the bottom line with almost any production company I’ve worked for is, that as long as it doesn’t cost them more money, nobody really cares if you rewrite the scripts. So, then you think, I’ve been given this gift, I can change this. So, I guess I do have to rely on a lot of writing skills.
And in terms of payoffs, what comes to mind when you ask me the question is the structure of the script I’m working on, and if the structure isn’t exciting enough I end up trying to inject elements to make things better in terms of cliff-hangers or story suspense, and just basically trying to find any way to improve and elevate the material, which is always what you try to do.
I’m definitely trying to create builds and payoffs for characters and constantly trying to make the characters less shallow. You try to flesh out the characters and make the characters more interesting so that everybody has some kind of an arc. And the most interesting characters to me are always the villains and you try to give the villain some humanity and some backstory because I think one note villains are pretty boring. Not that there’s a lot of villains in Hallmark movies.
JAMES
There are obstacles.
DAVID
There are obstacles. It’s usually saving the farm or falling in love. That’s always an obstacle.
JAMES
Who’s a favourite villain, then?
DAVID
You know my favourite villain of all time is Laurence Olivier as Szell in Marathon Man. And I like Javier Bardem as the creepy face-shifting Bond villain in Skyfall, and that movie has probably become one of my favourite movies of all time in terms of the action genre. When I saw Skyfall, I thought, that’s it. That’s the perfect three-act structure for a modern epic action film. I just loved it. I thought the whole thing was amazing.
You know, we were talking about my favourite directors, Kubrick and Carpenter, earlier but my other two favorites that we didn’t mention, and I think they’re the best screenwriters in the world – if I may go out on a limb – are the Coen Brothers. I love the Coen Brothers’ movies. Always have loved them. I think they write poetry. And I think they’re screenwriters that actually have so much more respect for the English language and words and I just love their movies.
So, you have opposite ends of the spectrum with Kubrick and Carpenter and now I’ve got the Coen brothers on one end and on the other end of the spectrum, the low end is Tarantino. Who I also think is brilliant, but I also think his style can come off as low class, and incredibly foul-mouthed. But the movies are so visceral. I love his movies. I think his movies are just brilliantly done. And they seem so heartless, but they’re just so energetic that I just get pulled into them.
JAMES
Don’t you think he embraces that B-Movie genre?
DAVID
Well, he’s doing what I thought I was doing. He’s imitating things that he loved. Everything he does is an imitation of something that moved him a lot. So, I can remember in ’92, when I had just finished Killer Image and I thought, “Okay I made this great action film.” And I’ve got it coming out, and I was all geared up and excited, and then out came Reservoir Dogs, and I swear, I almost retired at 29. I almost quit the business when Reservoir Dogs came out because I thought that’s exactly what I’ve been trying to make for 10 years – a really visceral, violent, action-packed, nonstop, funny film. I just love Reservoir Dogs. What an explosive debut.
And the other incredible breakthrough premiere movie from my other guys was Blood Simple. You know, the Coen Brothers first movie, and in the script for Killer Image the senator was described as an Emmet Walsh type. And Emmet Walsh had been in Blood Simple and I’m thinking, “Who can I get to play this guy?” And somebody said, “Well, why don’t you just ask Emmet Walsh?” And I was like, “I can’t go to the guy who did Blood Simple. I wouldn’t even be able to talk to him.” So, you know, we approached him and he said, “Sure I’ll do it.” We had him for four days. We had Michael Ironside for seven days. And the film was twenty days. So, a whole lot of that movie is not either of those two guys. Its body doubles and over-the-shoulder shots and, you know, people running around trying to look like Michael Ironside. That’s how you make low-budget movies.
Michael Ironside, David Winning and M. Emmet Walsh – on the set of Killer Image
JAMES
You sent me a note that one of your favourite films of your career is Exception to the Rule, starring Sean Young, Kim Cattrall, and William Devane, and I just want to know why is that one of your favourites? Why does that one standout?
DAVID
I did STORM and Killer Image and then I did Profile for Murder with Lance Henriksen and then Exception to the Rule. Exception to the Rule was the kind of movie that I’ve always wanted to make. I always wanted to make thrillers, you know, and we mentioned, Marathon Man. That was the kind of movie I wanted to do. Thrillers.
But it’s very seldom that you actually end up exactly on the path you want when you’re trying to pay the rent and develop a career. So, you end up doing Christmas movies and vampire shows and kid’s sitcoms and dinosaur shows.
There’s this fantasy that directors are offered things and I take a script and I review it and I go, “I don’t know if I want to direct this. Oh really. How much are they offering?” It just doesn’t happen. I mean, the agent calls and says, “David, they want you for the movie.” And I say, “When?” Boom. “What’s the money?” Boom. And I go, and I do it. I take any job that’s given to me, because otherwise I would starve to death.
So, Exception to the Rule was great, because it was a thriller and it was one of those cases where the script was kind of shallow and kind of misogynistic and I said, “Can I change this?” And again, they say, “We don’t care.” As long as it doesn’t cost money, people don’t care. “Do whatever you want to do you’re the director. Rewrite it.”
So, I was able to do a little rewriting on it and make it a bit more thriller-ish, more kind of Marathon Manish, which is what I always wanted to do. And we had a slightly bigger budget on it and I just kind of felt like I found my mojo on that movie.
And I still like it. I think it still stands up. And a lot of my friends that have seen Exception to the Rule think it’s one of my better movies from those early thrillers. You know I’ve done stuff that I’m really proud of in the last 10 years, but Exception was just a really fun memory because it was shot incredibly quickly, and I was trying so hard because you’re always trying to make small movies look like big features.
And when we finished it, I thought it turned out pretty well and we ended up taking it to the Houston Film Festival and I brought down Michael Bateman who was the film editor. And we showed it to a crowd of like 500 people in the theatre and they all jumped in the right places and they really got into it. And it’s just that kind of group feeling that doesn’t happen very often. And then we talked to the audience for like an hour and a half after the movie. And it just felt like I touched people with it. It was pretty cool. And you know, I got to work with Kim Cattrall and Sean Young in the same movie and I used to brag about getting to work with William Devane from Marathon Man.
JAMES
Did you chat to him at all about Marathon Man? Did you play the fan a little bit?
DAVID
I’m always playing fanboy with these guys. Like I got to ask Emmet Walsh about Blood Simple and I was definitely a fanboy with him and with Devane too. Exception to the Rule turned out pretty well. I thought. It’s not a bad little thriller for what it was, you know.
William Devane and David Winning on the set of Exception to the Rule
JAMES
You had an audience of 500 people who are totally engrossed in the film. That’s what you’re trying to do.
DAVID
That’s why you make movies, right? Nowadays it doesn’t happen because there’s no theater experience anymore, but more people watch my directing work now than have ever watched it.
When I do these Hallmark movies, if I’m lucky, I can get three to five million people watching it on the first screening. And then it goes into reruns so you multiply that and you know twenty to thirty million people end up watching your work; same work that people tease me about making, but when you’re shooting them, you feel the weight of the fact that these movies really mean something to people, you know. You have to value and respect the importance of everything you’re creating. It will mean something to someone.
And I just love pushing buttons and playing with emotions and making people cry and I just love doing that in these movies. And Hallmark gives you perfect opportunities for doing that because they’re all about family and Christmas and longing. And so many of the ones I’ve done recently are about heartbreak and dealing with grief.
Like, the Time for Me to Come Home series that I did that was based on a Blake Shelton song and he executive produced for Hallmark. They did three movies. I did the first one and then someone else came in and directed the second one, and then they brought me back for the third one. Which is the one that came out last Christmas and got the biggest ratings of all three, which is great, but they’re all heartbreaking, you know, three Kleenex kind of movies.
And I tear up worse than anybody watching these movies. When you direct something, you really get into it because you’re more invested in it than anyone. You’re the best audience because you know the people and you made the choices and you suggested things that they do. So of course, the big tear-jerky moments are going to hit me the hardest because I’ve choreographed it that way.
Bruce Dern in Swamp Devil
JAMES
Well, I want to talk more about the Hallmark stuff but we were talking about being a fanboy and working with a few of the folks that you loved when you were growing up. So, let’s talk a little bit about Swamp Devil and good old Bruce Dern. He’s the guy from Coming Home, Black Sunday,
DAVID
…Silent Running…
JAMES
Yeah, and you know, nominated for an Oscar for Nebraska. What was it like doing Swamp Devil with Bruce Dern?
DAVID
You don’t have enough time to hear my Bruce Dern stories. When I was about 13-14-15, I wandered into Science Theater 148 at the University of Calgary where the Student’s Union used to run Friday Flicks in the ’70s. And Paul Brown, may he rest in peace, and I rode our bikes over to the university and wandered into the Science Theater, and the projectionists were doing a test screening of the movie they were running that night.
And so up comes the opening few minutes of Silent Running, which became one of my favourite movies of all time, because, you know, I was already a kid sucked into Star Trek and all the science fiction stuff and suddenly there’s this outer space movie I’d never heard of, because back in those days movies could be released and Calgary wouldn’t see them for years.
But, of course, with the internet now everything’s just instant, right? Things are released and, boom, you see it or it’s on Netflix, but back then movies would take a while to get around the world and get into people’s psyche and stuff and Silent Running was one of those movies. So, I see Bruce Dern and I’m in love with the movie and then flash forward to the early ’80s and Bruce Dern’s in Calgary shooting that movie with Gordon Lightfoot.
JAMES
The Western, right?
DAVID
Yeah, and it was called Harry Tracy Desperado.
JAMES
Right, and they were shooting at Heritage Park.
DAVID
And they were shooting at Heritage Park and we went a couple of times just to get in on the set – that was back when you could do this. And we just kind of watched them shoot and I ended up sitting down in this director’s chair and they called cut and Bruce Dern walked out of the set and came over and sat right beside me with this Styrofoam coffee cup.
And I looked at him and I wanted to say to him, “You know you’re the reason I got into movies, I love Silent Running.” And he turned and he started to talk to me and then he looked at me and said, “Oh God I’m talking to an extra.” And he got up and walked away. And then I looked down and I see his coffee cup, and there was this 10 second moment where I thought I’m going to take that coffee cup. I could sell it on eBay. This is Bruce Dern’s coffee cup from Harry Tracy.
So anyway, now flash forward years later and I’m shooting monster movies in Montreal. And we did Black Swarm with Robert Englund and then Swamp Devil was right after and we shot them together. It was like an eight-week period – we’d prep and shoot – prep and shoot. And so, this rumour started happening halfway through Black Swarm that they were going to get Bruce Dern to do Swamp Devil. And I just about lost my mind. And believe it or not, I actually did tell him that coffee cup story eventually.
So, they pick Bruce Dern up at the airport and he was coming in for his costume fitting on a Saturday and this cab pulls up and Bruce Dern gets out and he was 72, I think, when we did Swamp Devil, and he got out and I was kind of speechless. I mean I get to direct this movie, and I am in awe of this guy and I really don’t know what to say to him. He was incredible.
And he used to tell me stories all the time about movies that he worked on and things that he’d done and Silent Running and his best friend in the world is Jack Nicholson. And we would be shooting and his cell phone would ring and he’d go, “Can you take that?” Because we’re in the middle of shooting something – “Can you take that? Say hi to Jack.” And I’d take the phone and I’d look down and it would say, Jack Nicholson. He’d always hand me the phone when Nicholson phoned him. And I just never had the guts to say anything. Anyway, it was an incredible experience. Working with your idols. It’s kind of scary.
And speaking about idols in the late ’80s they called me up and said, “We’re doing this series in Toronto called Earth Final Conflict – a Gene Roddenberry series.” And I’m like, “You’re punking me, right?” Like, I’m going to work on a Gene Roddenberry series, because I grew up with Star Trek. And I’ve told millions of people that Star Trek taught me how to make movies when I was 10. And Star Trek the original series is now completely corny, and people make fun of it, but the original series is still my favourite, I remember being 10,11, and 12 and just staring at this black and white TV, trying to figure out how they put it all together and kind of reverse engineering it in terms of drama and structure and choreography and I still do stuff to this day that’s right out of Star Trek. It’s just the way my brain works when I’m trying to block scenes. And then I went out and did Andromeda for four seasons, which was another Roddenberry series.
Working with your idols… Bruce Dern and David Winning on the set of Swamp Devil
JAMES
Let’s talk about another series of yours. Todd and the Book of Pure Evil. It’s about a group of high school students and this demonic book that unleashes all these horrendous things into their school, and they have a different adventure each week.
DAVID
You’ve seen those, right?
JAMES
I’ve seen most of that series. I’ve seen the episodes you’ve done. And it’s just one of those shows that pushes the boundaries. It’s wacky and fun and bizarre. What was the creation of that like?
DAVID
Well, it was completely politically incorrect. The guy behind that series is Craig David Wallace, who created the series as kind of a thesis project when he was at the Norman Jewison Film Center. It was his graduation project. So, they did a short film called Todd and the Book of Pure Evil which is their version of the pilot episode. And then they used the short film as the springboard to try to get the rest of the series made and Space Channel and some other companies got involved. And they ended up shooting it in Winnipeg of all places, covering various empty high schools with blood and all sorts of gruesome things.
And they wrote the first 13 episodes over seven years because they were trying to get them perfect. And I remember sitting down with Craig and he said, “Okay, we’ve got you,” and they had four directors, I think – and he said, “We want all the directors to read all the episodes.” So, I sat down, and I read the first 13 episodes, and I laughed. It was some of the best, funniest, most bizarre writing I’d ever read. And it’s a really weird combination of absolute gruesome horror and hysterical comedy and completely off base.
And when we got the green light and I went down and shot them and I had to shoot people saying some of the most horrible lines and I said to Craig, “Do you want an alternate on this line?” And Craig was, “No, absolutely not. It’s as written.” Because they were kind of like the Coen Brothers in a way. It was all so brilliantly written. And the wording was so biting and sharp and the descriptions and everything, he didn’t want any alternates. He didn’t want anything softened, and I realized that he was such a rebel kind of producer, that they wanted to go out and do exactly what they wanted to do and have everyone be so shocked that maybe it would be cancelled.
I thought, okay, that’s pretty bold, because you know, you’re never going to have a chance to come back and do this line, if you want to soften it and it was something just politically incorrect. But it was a very free series to do because nobody came out unscathed in that show. They made fun of everybody. And everything was just super violent, and I just had a blast making that show.
And then the weird thing that happened is it became a hit, and they went to Craig and said, “Okay, we’re going to do another season, so start writing some scripts.” And so, they didn’t really know what to do for the second season. The first season took seven years to write, and the second season took about three and a half months to write. It was a great series to work on; maybe the first season eclipsed the second season but the second season had a lot of really fun stuff in it and I had a blast working on it. Brave creative producers.
JAMES
You’ve worked on Earth Final Conflict, Andromeda, ABC’s Dinotopia, and you’ve done Stargate Atlantis, and I just wanted to touch on the Stargate Atlantis episode, you did called “Childhood’s End.” I watched it last year and again this week.
DAVID
That episode is one of my favorite things I’ve ever done. I was really proud of that episode.
JAMES
It had a lot of kids in it. It moves along really nice. And you mentioned Star Trek, and it has a little bit of the feeling of that episode of Star Trek, where the kids are growing up and they die when they reach puberty because of this disease. Remember that episode?
DAVID
It’s called “Miri.” With Kim Darby.
JAMES
It’s about a kid-based society.
DAVID
It’s funny you mentioned Star Trek, because when you work on those kind of shows and when you work on Andromeda with Kevin Sorbo, I go right back to being the kid watching the black and white TV in the basement. And I think, “Jeez, I’m actually here now. I’m creating this world. And even though I’m standing inside a fake spaceship, this is going to be so real for some 10-year-old somewhere in the world.”
And as people have told me, whenever you do anything, even if you’re not sure it’s going to be great, it always ends up being somebody’s favourite movie, or somebody’s favourite episode of the show. That’s what I take really seriously when I’m working on shows. Because I know it’s going to mean something to somebody and I can still tap into the 10-year-old in my head when I’m making these movies and try to see it from that perspective when I’m trying to tell the story.
And you know it was a great cast. And it was a really fascinating little story about these poor kids on this planet killing themselves at 25 because they think they can’t live to adulthood, because the Wraith will come and take them out. The kids were great. And you know we had a ton of fun, like, burying that little shuttlecraft that crashes in the opening sequences. It was a great episode to do and they had some really great directors on that show. Peter DeLuise was super nice to me and I just went in and I worked so hard to try to make this just a great episode. I’ve always been proud of that show and it won three international awards for directing. I’ve always been into the promotion factor of the career and I like to celebrate the work and hopefully people see it because you’re trying to keep the momentum of your career going.
Rukiya Bernard, Rowland Pidlubny, and David Winning on the set of Van Helsing
JAMES
Let’s talk a little bit about Van Helsing and your involvement with that. I mean that’s a pretty bloody and effects rich show. How did that come about?
DAVID
Chad Oakes started out as a talent agent in Edmonton and then he moved down to Calgary and started Nomadic Pictures with Mike Frislev and they ended up hitting it big with Hell on Wheels, and in 2016 they asked me to direct Mutant World for them with Kim Coates and Amber Marshall for SyFy. That led to Chad getting Van Helsing and so SyFy and Netflix co-produced Van Helsing and they did the first season without me but then they called me second season and said, “We have a couple of episodes for you in a block.” And I said, “Great.”
So, I sat down and watched the whole first season. And the very first episode of Van Helsing is incredibly gory, and just blood splatter and violent. It had a little bit of that Tarantino visceral kind of punch to it that I just loved. And so, I ended up getting hooked on this thing and binge watched the entire first season. The first season’s amazing. It had a beautiful arc to the story, and there was a major change that happened in one of the characters in the series, about eight episodes in, that just completely knocked you off your chair and took the character in a whole different direction.
And when I got offered it, I said, “Can we do some Steadicam?” And they’re like, “Yeah, we’ve been waiting for somebody who knows how to use it properly.” So, I came in with an episode about cannibals called “Big Mama,” and if you get rid of all the politics and all the BS in the film business, you really end up being like a kid in a candy store. Because you get all these actors and these really cool scripts and this vampire apocalypse world that they created for you that’s brilliantly set-designed and you wake up sometimes and you think, “Was there an apocalypse, because this is so realistic.” And I’m just so proud of those episodes. I ended up doing six of them. I did two a season. And in the third season they called me and said, “We want you to do the finale.” Which, as you can imagine, is this golden position for a director. Everybody wants to do either the pilot or the finale where all the stories get wrapped up.
And if you said to me, that’s the only thing you get to do for the rest of your life, is this little weird vampire series, I would be thrilled because it was like playing cops and robbers when you’re a kid. You know, like chasing bad guys and stuff. And I just loved the whole good and evil battle with Van Helsing. It was so blunt and obvious. And with vampire characters you can do anything. And if you watch the series, they would take their favourite actors and they would make them not vampires for a few episodes, or the villains would become heroes and be humanized for a few episodes. It was just a blast. And it was a great cast to work with.
Aleks Paunovic played Julius and was amazing. And I ended up through a weird series of circumstances not working with the star Kelly Overton the first season I was there. She wasn’t in either of my two episodes. I didn’t end up working with her until the finale of the third season. So, she came to me and said, “I’ve heard a lot of good things about you. I liked your episodes but isn’t it weird that we haven’t even met until, you know, three seasons into this series.” She was great.
David Winning and Aleks Paunovic on the set of Van Helsing
JAMES
So, since we’ve been talking about Van Helsing – lots of times you contrast your Van Helsing work with your Hallmark work – and you’ve directed other shows, I think that have a lot of heart, like Twice in a Lifetime, so it’s not something completely new. And you’ve done what? Twenty projects for Hallmark now?
DAVID
I’ve done 17 movies for Hallmark. Ten of them have been Christmas movies. Seven of them have been seasonal like summer/spring movies.
JAMES
I’ve got a list here: Marrying Father Christmas, Unleashing Mr. Darcy, Tulips in Spring, A December Bride, Falling for Vermont. And then you did as you mentioned Time for Us to Come Home for Christmas, which aired last December. Why do you think people have an appetite for these movies? And what draws you to the story as well?
DAVID
What draws me to them is just the challenge of making anything entertainment. I mean, anything you’re given. I mean, like I said with the killer bee show I started my television career with on Friday the 13th, I like being challenged to take stuff and make it better and elevate it. And with the Hallmark movies, it’s not as hard because it’s got a built-in audience and predictable storylines and people just love the comfort of that.
And I think in dark times, people just flock to Hallmark movies because there’s a comfort level and a feeling of safety and a security. And some of my best childhood memories were wrapped up in Christmas and that kind of magical fantasy feeling about, you know, the world loves each other, and everything’s great, and it’s all wonderful. That’s a beautiful feeling, and that really is Christmas when you’re a kid.
I think 85 million people watched these movies last year because there’s a huge need for safe entertainment in the world right now. Especially with so much upheaval going on politically and spiritually with people that I think people just want to pour themselves a glass of wine and sit down with some popcorn and watch these really safe wholesome stories because it has memories from their childhood.
JAMES
You recently directed Riddle Me Dead a Crossword Mystery for Hallmark, right?
DAVID
My 40th feature.
JAMES
So, what are the Crossword Mysteries and what is Riddle Me Dead about?
DAVID
What Hallmark smartly decided to do is they took their favourite stars like Candace Cameron Bure and Lacey Chabert and the people that they’ve done the Christmas movies with, and they started to develop spin-off mystery series with each of them. And so Lacey was doing Christmas movies and she wanted to branch off and do a mystery collection. So, the New York Times crossword puzzle editor, whose name is Will Shortz pitched an idea to Hallmark about doing a mystery series about a girl who basically does what he does – she creates crossword puzzles, but she also hooks up with a police detective and she ends up helping the police department solve murders.
And they’re lightweight mysteries. They’re not super violent, obviously, because it’s a Hallmark thing. They’ve done five of them now to great success and everybody loves Lacey. And the cop in the series is played by Brennan Elliott, who coincidentally went to my high school in Calgary but in the ’90s. And we’re shooting the first day and he said, “Well, I grew up in Calgary.” And I said, “What high school did you go to? And he said, “Aberhart, how about you?” And it was one of those weird moments where you kind of whittle it down and gradually realize that you’re neighbours. Anyway, so Brennan Elliott and Lacey Chabert started these movies and I directed number five, which premiered in April and it’s called Crosswords Mysteries: Riddle me Dead.
Brennan Elliott and Lacey Chabert in Crossword Mysteries: Riddle Me Dead
DAVID
And the plot is kind of fascinating. It’s about a game show. You know, all the scandals about the game shows in the ’50s. And people cheating on game shows. It’s kind of like that, and I can’t give too much of it away, but, Lane Edwards plays the game show host on this fictional game show called Riddle Me This and at the end of the first act he gets murdered on the set. And so Lacey Chabert has, of course, attended this taping and she gets embroiled in the whole mystery. And it was so much fun to do. We basically built a Jeopardy-like set inside a soundstage, complete with working cameras and I pulled things out of the script and moved them onto the game show set because I knew the stage was going to be fantastic. So much of what happens in the story actually ends up happening on the stage in you know, the dark hours.
It was a ton of fun and I’ve got a really good relationship with Lacey Chabert. I did a movie about seven years ago called The Tree That Saved Christmas with her. It was for Uptv and we shot it in eleven days and it ended up on the top five list of The New York Times for best Christmas movies of 2014. I don’t know how that happens, it’s like winning the lottery, right? So, I definitely advertise the fact that that happened, because I was really proud of it.
And Lacey’s famous to people from Mean Girls, and she was the little girl in Party of Five, the series. And The Tree that Saved Christmas kind of introduced her to Hallmark and now she’s done like 26 Hallmark movies. Mostly in Vancouver. So, when we did Time for Us to Come Home for Christmas together it was great to reunite with her and then while we were shooting she said, “Do you do mystery movies?” And I’m like, “I do everything. Vampires. Spaceships. Kid shows. What do you want?”
Making films during COVID – David Winning and Lacey Chabert on the Set of Time for Us to Come Home for Christmas
JAMES
Right, and so you did Crossword Mysteries, and you did the Christmas movie and you shot out in Vancouver with COVID protocols. How do you get a movie put together during COVID and keep it safe for everyone?
DAVID
This Saturday will be the first anniversary since the film business shut down. We called it Black Friday because the whole film business shut down on March 13. And slowly in July and August the industries in Vancouver, the IATSE Union and the Directors Guild and the various film production centers were trying to develop protocols as to how the heck are we going to get back to work?
And basically, film sets hired COVID departments. People that come in and are just specifically there to make sure that everyone is wearing masks. And we wear masks all day, obviously like anywhere else, but it’s still a hundred people working in very close proximity. Temperature checks are done every day. The actors on the show are tested for COVID once a week, or in some cases more than once a week, sometimes three times a week on some of the bigger shows. But as you can imagine, the worst thing to happen to the film business is something to slow down production because it’s just so hard to physically get these movies made.
And now we’ve got another whole element of safety and we have to just take everything even slower. So, it’s been a real learning curve. Obviously, the actors take the masks off just before they shoot and then pop them back on at the end and a lot of actors are wearing face shields. These kinds of plastic visors that come over their heads. And you know people are going around spritzing your hands all day long. And when you sign-in in the morning, when you arrive at set you have to go through a whole COVID protocol where you do a checklist, and they do the forehead temperature checks and everything and it’s really well regulated. One of the other things they’ve done is kind of divided into pods, you know. We get these wristbands when we go to work. And if you’re in the red zone, the hot zone, you’re in a small group of people that can be around the cast. And the extras, for example, are all separated from us and they come in at the last minute.
And I’m really proud of the fact that I’ve done three productions now with nobody getting sick. But I will say that I felt kind of guilty in some ways getting back to work when so many other people are struggling. I think things are starting to fire back up, but, I mean, I feel for the restaurant industries and all the companies that have shut down and closed. But I think the film business is one of the safer businesses right now, just because you can’t afford to get someone sick, it’s just such bad publicity and obviously you don’t want people ill for any reason. So, I have been proud of the fact that we’ve been able to keep people safe.
Keeping people safe – David Winning and Lacey Chabert on the set of Riddle Me Dead
JAMES
So, you mentioned Riddle Me Dead and Time for Us to Come Home for Christmas and Lacey Chabert and I know I read some other interviews with her and she’s not the only one, but a lot of actors talk about how much they like to work with you, and they enjoy your approach on set. I wonder what type of work and creative experience do you try to create for the cast and crew?
DAVID
When I started out, I used to work as a PA for Access TV and I used to get yelled at by directors and they used to do a lot of screaming and had tempers. And I thought, “I don’t know if I want to be in this business if this is the way it’s going to be.” I worked for a lot of hotheads when I started out in my early twenties and so I thought, “If I was doing this job I’m going to treat people better.” And I always think people do their best work when they’re relaxed and happy and my parents ingrained in me that you have to create a world where people are happy.
And so I’ve spent a lot of time trying to be a party host when making movies because I have never lost that childhood love of movies. People I work with say, “You seem so excited making this that I got reinvigorated working with you.” Which is kind of why I’m there. I’m supposed to be a cheerleader. And I’m supposed to try to remind people about why they’re in the business. Because a lot of people forget. It’s got to be more than a paycheck. So, I think if I have a good reputation, it’s because I try to make people as relaxed and to let them have as much fun as possible. And I have great respect for actors. I love working with actors. It’s hard enough just physically getting movies to happen so why not try to make it as comfortable an experience for people as possible.
Create a world where people are happy. Fay Winning and David Winning
JAMES
What does an actor need most from his director?
DAVID
They need to feel safe. And I end up becoming the only critic that matters for their performance. It’s just the actor and me. You know, like Lacey and I have a great relationship. You work with people who trust you. And it’s about trying to guide their performance and trying to elevate the material because if they look good – I look good.
So, I’m always trying to make people feel like they have the best playground to work in. And then what’s always fun, a lot of times, even in comedies I always try to do a third take where you let people just do whatever they want to do. And you’d be surprised how often that material ends up in the show. When I was doing Breaker High years ago for Saban, Ryan Gosling, who went on to some success, and Tyler Labine used to be just hysterical together. They were playing the two kids and we would always do what we called a Jimmy and Sean take where we would just let them go and do whatever they wanted and some of the funniest moments from Breaker High were because you created a comfortable enough place so that people could spread their wings and just experiment.
And I don’t know if you’ve been on set in a while but because of the nature of the digital stuff, you don’t usually cut. You’ll shoot a scene and I do it all the time – still rolling – still rolling – still rolling – take it back, take it back, let’s try it again. And I’ll direct live you know. Just try it with this and try it with that and you don’t get this rigid “Cut” and the scene is over. You just keep rolling. Sometimes you do three or four takes without ever cutting the camera. Or you can drag cameras around and reposition stuff while we’re rolling because you have the freedom to do that. Because it’s digital. It’s not like back in the STORM days, I mentioned earlier, where you’re on a three to one shooting ratio, and I only have so much film. Then everything had to be very specific and perfect. But there’s so much more freedom now with the digital technology.
Erin Krakow, David Winning, and Niall Matter on the set of Engaging Father Christmas
JAMES
Well maybe talk a little bit about that 40-year career what are some of the big changes you’ve seen over that span of time?
DAVID
Well, actually, I’m proud of the fact that I worked on the very first high-definition television series in the late ’90s. For a long time people used to say, ER, you know the George Clooney TV series, was the first series to shoot HD digital, but actually Earth Final Conflict was the very first series that used Sony 900 cameras and was exploring this whole technology and all the cameras were cabled up. There were cables everywhere. And now of course, it’s completely freeform, which is great. But I was very proud of the fact that I was really in on the ground floor when digital came along.
I miss film because when you used to shoot film, even on a TV show like Andromeda, there’s a comfort to sitting beside the camera and hearing the film churning through the magazine. That was the old days and we’re making movies, you know. But now it’s all so electronic. It’s all “ones” and “zeros”. “Stand by for data capture!”
I remember having my whole world kind of rocked years ago when I went to a Pantages Theatre in Los Angeles which was a designated testing ground for George Lucas’s 8k projection systems and I remember going and watching some digital stuff that had been shot at night on a 4k system and then projected in 8k, and I thought, “Film’s dead.” And in the last ten to fifteen years incredible strides have been made in digital photography and I realized, “Oh, you won’t have to ship film prints to theatres all over the country anymore. Now it’s just a little HD drive and eventually they’ll just be beaming the signal out from some central location to all the theatres.”
JAMES
And boy, did it happen fast. And you’re right you don’t have to do prints and you know 40 years ago even with a big film, they might only make 100 or 200 prints. And it starts in New York and LA and it goes to the A markets and then it goes to the B markets and like you say, it could be six months to a year before it gets to a theatre in Calgary because they only have so many prints. And then the funny thing is the print arrives in Calgary after it’s been on the road for a year and then the projection you see is full of scratches. And it might even have a film splice in it. It was such a totally different experience. We forget because what we see now is so clean.
DAVID
And to connect back to something we talked about earlier. That’s why John Carpenter’s career happened. It happened because Halloween was released city by city by city. And it started to do this gradual build. It was released in October in LA and into small little markets. And it was brushed off as a little shocker movie and then it eventually worked its way to New York, and he got a Village Voice review, where it basically compared him to Alfred Hitchcock, “This is incredible suspense.” And then his career exploded. But that kind of thing doesn’t happen anymore, where you get this kind of slow-release. In the old days, somebody would just take a print and drive it around the country and rent a theatre and show it in all these little markets and try to build up interest all over the country. That’s just not a concept that occurs anymore. Nowadays, you get Netflix dropping an entire series in one day.
JAMES
So you’ve had a career that has lasted 40 years. It’s a tough business. You grew up in Calgary so you’re used to the boom and bust cycle because Alberta’s economy is oil and gas, and film and television is very much boom and bust for a lot of artists. So, I’m just curious, what strategies have you used in your career to help you ride the ups and downs working in the film and television biz.
DAVID
I’ve been on a good run for the last four or five years. I don’t want to jinx it but Hallmark Channel has been very good to me, obviously, and with the Van Helsing stuff it’s been a pretty steady run. I’ve spent probably all of my 40 years being like a promo guy. You know, I’m just trying to promote stuff and I always thought that you’d eventually get to a stage where you wouldn’t have to do this anymore. You just arrive, and you’d be the famous director and people just hand you your projects. That just doesn’t happen. And it doesn’t happen more now than it ever did in the past because there’s so much product, and there are so many channels and potential places for things to be produced.
You know, when we were growing up, it was three networks, and then it became three networks and Super Channel, and then it became satellite channels and now there’s 400 channels that need product to fill them. So, I don’t know how you don’t get lost in the mix. I just think I’ve been really lucky. I’ve always been sustained by an existing industry and I got the reputation of being kind of like a go-to guy. I can’t tell you how many shows I’ve taken over where the director has been either fired or got sick or got COVID or something happened and they fly me in. They call me on the Sunday and fly me in on the Monday and we start shooting, and I’m walking onto set reading the script and going, “Okay, you’re married to who? And you’re going to kill him in this scene.” I’ve done that a million times.
And that’s part of the reason it’s so much fun. I’ve done work on 29 different television series. And television is completely about the clock. They don’t care who you are or who the director is and film is the same way. “This movie has to happen today, in this amount of time, and if you don’t do it, there’ll be somebody different here tomorrow that’ll do it.”
One of my things I’m most proud of is that I’m incredibly prepped on the shows I direct, like you direct them in your head a million times before you ever get close to the actors or the sets. And so you can see all the shortcuts in advance. We could do this together and combine this scene and do this and that. And television taught me to have this incredible eye on the clock all the time, right. So, I always know where we are in the day and the first ADs are coming to you and saying, “You only have so much time.” I know exactly where we are in the day. I know exactly how much time I have. I know what tricks I’m going to pull out at the last minute to finish this undoable day. Because in television, you’re shooting 12-page days. It’s just ridiculous. The pace is ridiculous. But I think because I’ve faced all of the scary stuff I feel more relaxed directing now because I don’t get surprised by too much. I know how to fix things when things go wrong.
And I’ve always felt like I still maintain the excitement about trying to make everything different and exciting, but I’ve definitely had ups and downs. I remember very clearly 2008/2009 when the bottom kind of fell out of the industry and they stopped making TV movies, and I didn’t work for two and a half years. Not one booking in two and a half years. And I had come off a fairly steady bit of work so I had you know some money backed up but I started selling property and I have no nest egg left and I honestly thought, “I guess I’m retired. I guess that was it.” I’ve had a couple of little plateaus like that. You just never know where the next job is coming from. I have no idea what I’m doing next week. I could get a call today and be in Budapest the following week.
JAMES
You mentioned World Fest Houston and you’ve had a chance to go to some conventions and do some panels and things like that and I’m just curious, what’s it like to go and be a part of that and talk to the fans from the shows?
DAVID
I love doing that. I used to do it a lot when I was doing Andromeda and Stargate: Atlantis I went all over the states to all these little science fiction conventions, and they asked you to come and sign things and so you take a whole bunch of pictures of you working on different shows with various people and the science fiction fans are the best. In Springfield, Missouri, years back, this guy rolled up to me in a wheelchair, and he was in a full Klingon outfit. And I said, “Hey, how are ya?” And he would only speak in Klingon. Sci-fi fans are so much fun. And I’ve done Comic-Con San Diego a couple of times, with 130,000 people, which has been very bizarre. Sometimes nobody comes and talks to you because nobody knows who the directors are but, when they see you have a connection to various science fiction shows they feel like they know you. And there’s a lot of seven-year-old Power Ranger fans in the world that think I’m a superstar because I directed the Turbo: A Power Rangers Movie sequel in ’97 some 25 years ago. I still get invited to the MorphiCons in Pasadena every year.
JAMES
It’s fantasy time Dave. So, what television series from the past would you go back in time and take a shot at directing and why?
DAVID
Star Trek. The original series. I have fantasized for years about going back in time and being on that set. I would love to have done that. I would have loved to have directed 24. I loved 24. It was one of my favourite action series. I would love to have directed some of the Night Gallery episodes or Twilight Zone even back in the ’60s you know. But probably Star Trek TOS would be the thing I’d go back to direct. I’ve walked around stage 31 at Paramount in Hollywood and had exactly this thought many times. It was the original Desilu Studios Stage 9 until they merged with Paramount in 1967. This soundstage housed all the sets that represented the interior of the Enterprise. Hung out there while they were shooting Ted Danson’s sitcom Becker.
On Set – David Winning – Photo by David Giesbrecht
JAMES
You’ve done a lot of interviews over the years and I’m wondering is there anything that you would like to talk about that you just don’t get asked? You know, any subject, any stories, anything that you go gee I wish they’d asked me about that?
DAVID
You know, I always like to come back to my parents and the fact that I was so lucky I got the parents I had because, you know, I was adopted. I really wish my Dad was able to have seen more of my career, because as we talked about he stayed supportive even when he didn’t really understand it because he knew it was making me happy. So, I always try to honour my parents. And the temperament that I have is really completely from them. I was nurtured in a very supportive environment when I grew up. And I love the fact that that extends into whatever I do as a career in entertainment and the fact that I have a reputation for being a good guy to work with. And I’m proud of that and I think my Dad would be proud of that if he knew about it.
And sure, the hair gets gray, and you get older, but inside, I’m still this 15-year-old kid making movies in the backyard. And I never want to get rid of that, and the thing I don’t say enough is how incredibly lucky I’ve been to have survived 40 plus years in a business where people just drop out. I’ve been incredibly lucky. I would love for you to put that in because that’s what I feel is the thing that I never get to say, because I was lucky to land with the parents I landed with and you know, obviously I’ve worked very hard, but I’m just very lucky to have been able to sustain a 40-year career because if you knew the politics I’ve had to negotiate and all the competition that’s whizzing by me you’d be surprised that I’m still standing upright making movies.
And people think, “Did you design this career?” No, I wanted to pay the rent. I just wanted to keep working. So, I’m happy that they still call me. I go where the work is. I’ve never turned down a job. I’ve done 17 movies for the Hallmark Channel, but I have no idea what I’m doing six months from now. That’s the way it is. People think, “Oh, he must have it all set out so he does four a year and you start this one and then you prep the next one and then this month you have a little vacation, and it’s never been like that. I just wait for the phone to ring every Monday and most Mondays it doesn’t ring.
FAY WINNING 1923 – 2021 David’s mother and biggest fan sadly passed away at 98, weeks after this interview was conducted. She was integral to instilling in him the love of family, sensitivity and humility, and wholesome values that allowed him to flourish in the Hallmark universe. She was a gentle, kind, caring soul and will be missed. The Hallmark Channel in Los Angeles made a large donation in her honour to one of her favourite charities.
A year ago Juliet Liraz a senior Correctional Substance Abuse Counselor produced an inmate-run production of my adaptation of A Christmas Carol in the Department of Corrections in the state in which she lives. This blog is the story of that production, and it contains an account of the production in Juliet’s own words. It contains an interview I did with Juliet in November to talk with her about the production and her work with the Department of Corrections. And it contains two stories, one from Group Facilitator McCoy and one from Group Facilitator Kibeon, about their experience helping to produce A Christmas Carol.
“And in the play when Scrooge went back in time and saw the love of his life and saw how he just pushed her away because he was Scrooge and he was a young man and he’s just making these choices and they’re yelling – the inmates in the audience they’re yelling, “Don’t do it Scrooge!” because as they’re watching that scene they see themselves. They see those pivotal moments in their life where they know they should have gone left, but they went right. And the actor playing Scrooge did such a great job of showing how this horrible belligerent nauseous person just transforms into this carefree young man, and for the audience it was reliving those moments in their lives and seeing what could happen in their own lives if they made a change. It was really magical.”
Juliet Liraz
“The next few days of preparation were a comedy of errors. Murphy’s law really does exist! What kept us alive and motivated was Ms. Liraz’s belief in us. After years of conditioning, many inmates begin to believe that they are not worthy, not deserving, not trustworthy, stupid, naïve, crooked, and incapable. When someone simply believes in and validates us, we want to give them everything we have.”
GF Kibeon
“A counselor who went to both performances was amazed. She normally doesn’t go to any inmate thing. The experience of doing the play opened people up to our program and the need for an outlet for their feelings. Many people now wanted to participate in the next thing. After being able to do a play in 5 days, we were beyond cocky. All of the GF’s figured if we had a month we could do anything.”
GF McCoy
When I interviewed Juliet to talk with her about the production of A Christmas Carol she mentioned a Nigerian novelist by the name of Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie who talks about the danger of a single story which basically means if we only have a single story about another person or another country we run the risk of misjudging that person or that nation.
“The single story creates stereotypes, and the problem with stereotypes is not that they are untrue, but that they are incomplete. They make one story become the only story. Show a people as only one thing, over and over again and that is what they become.
The consequences of the single story is this: It robs people of their dignity. It makes our recognition of our equal humanity difficult. It emphasizes how we are different rather than how we are similar.
Stories matter. Many stories matter. Stories have been used to dispossess and to malign, but stores can also be used to empower and to humanize. Stories can break the dignity of a people, but stories can also repair that broken dignity.”
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie – The danger of a single story – TEDGlobal July 2009
And so that’s one of the reasons I wanted to tell this story about the production of A Christmas Carol. It’s not the sort of story you often hear in regard to prison life and for that reason alone it deserves to be told. And what this story revealed to me is how our actions and decisions have consequences that touch many lives and ripple through time. That’s why it’s important to remember that each of us has the power to do good based on how we treat others and live our lives.
Juliet Liraz’s Reflections on A Christmas Carol
“And that’s when the idea arose of producing a Christmas play.”
I was hired by the Department of Corrections shortly after I acquired my counseling license. I had worked with DOC as a teacher while finishing graduate school, and I was excited to serve in a different capacity.
The winter holiday season is a difficult season for many people and especially for incarcerated individuals. I’d heard stories about how this was the most trying time of the year, so I had asked for and received permission to decorate the building for Christmas.
Decorating the building seemed like a small gesture. However, what I’ve learned toward the end of my time in Corrections, is that small gestures have a long-lasting impact. They teach you about this while you’re in training; however, it’s connected towards negative outcomes such as staff smuggling dangerous contraband into the prison. Negative outcomes do happen, absolutely, but so do positive ones.
I started decorating with a few volunteers. The counselors work alongside inmates certified as Group Facilitators. A few of them helped me decorate the building while groups were in session. We received a lot of wide-eyed stares, and soon, with the approval of the other counselor, my small crew of volunteers expanded. Anyone watching the scene would have seen a group of tatted up convicts, from varied backgrounds, taping garland across the ceiling. I couldn’t have asked for a better group of volunteers. Together, we created a Winter Wonderland.
I was taken aback by how heartwarming the experience was. Again, I thought nothing of decorating the space. According to my logic, it was no big deal. However, I was never so wrong. Many of the volunteers have never decorated for the holiday, and for various reasons, absolutely dreaded the season. For many, it’s the worst time of the year. The volunteers told me and the other counselor that they felt renewed, happy, and hopeful. The energy in the building was jubilant.
And that’s when the idea arose of producing a Christmas play. I was talking with a GF in my office at the end of the day, and during our conversation, he’d mentioned that he had never seen a play before, and I blurted out, “Hmm…what if we do a play here? A Christmas play?” The idea quickly took root, and my mouth started moving a mile a minute. While teaching, I had my students write original screenplays to satisfy a writing requirement, and they performed their pieces in front of a small audience. But THIS, this could be on a grander level! This could be a unit-wide production! We could have auditions, rehearsals, props, music, and after a brief period of frenzied babble, I finished with, “What do you think?”
Baffled at the sudden and intense turn of events, the GF stammered, “I don’t know.”
I called another GF into my office and told him my idea. As I spoke, several emotions flashed across his face, and after a lengthy pause, he agreed that it was something that was feasible – with permission – and the production might be a wonderful farewell to the retiring Deputy Warden who had a history of supporting inmate rights. It would be a testament to her legacy. We notified the other GF’s to get their feedback. They were caught off guard, nervous, excited, confused, and did I mention, nervous? But we had a plan, we would perform A Christmas Carol, because I had a vision. A Christmas Carol is a story about a man who was offered an opportunity for redemption. It was a story about second chances. It was the perfect story for the incarceration population.
“Oh. My. God. He said, “yes”.”
The only problem was we didn’t have much time. The DW was leaving in a few weeks, and if this was going to happen, it had to happen fast.
I needed to ask permission, but before I asked for approval, I needed something to present. We needed a script, and more importantly, permission to use that script. And, if this was going to work, we needed permission in two days.
I went home and researched various adaptations. The time constraints and the lack of funding definitely proved to be an enormous barrier, which was expected. On Sunday, I came across James Hutchison’s adaptation of A Christmas Carol, and I knew that – like Neo in The Matrix – his version was The One. It was a well-written adaptation of the classic story.
I noticed that his email address was posted, and I thought, “Well, all he can do is say no or simply not respond.” This was our only shot, seriously. We had too much work to do in a short period of time. We needed permission by the end of the day to meet the insanely tight deadlines created by my “What the heck was I thinking?” idea.
I typed the email, made a silent prayer, pressed send, and went about my day with the unsettling feeling that I’d have to tell the GF’s that the play would not happen. Hours later, I checked my email, and blinked. I got a response from the playwright. I read the response and screamed. He said “yes”! Not only did Mr. Hutchison grant us permission to produce his adaptation of A Christmas Carol, but he would allow us to utilize his material for free!
I ran around the house and told my family. We had permission! We could really do this! And then I was hit with a wave of terror. Oh. My. God. He said “yes”.
“How in the world would we be able to pull off a production in only a week?”
Once we received permission to produce the play, we needed permission from my supervisor and the Deputy Warden to actually produce an inmate run production. Always a champion for a good cause, my supervisor said, “If the DW approves, then go for it!” With her permission, I sent an email to the DW and a memo regarding the production, but we had to wait for a response. The DW was unavailable for a few days, and it couldn’t be helped.
We didn’t wait idly. In the interim, we prepped. When or if, we received approval, we would be ready to take off sprinting.
As each day passed with no word, our anxiety heightened. How in the world would we be able to pull off a production in only a week? When the DW and I finally spoke, she mentioned that she had always wanted to see an inmate-run play in prison during her leadership. We received permission on the last workday of the week. Time to move.
We posted flyers that said that any individual interested in auditioning for A Christmas Carol, had to sign up by the end of the day. The rumors on the yard were rampant. Who produces a play in prison? Doesn’t she know where she works? Doesn’t the play have female roles? No one was going to audition! This is prison!
Well…by the end of the day, we had very few audition slots available. We were booked solid.
The auditions were unbelievable. We had a line of inmates who didn’t sign up by our abrupt deadline, but they still wanted a chance to audition. We didn’t turn anyone away. The judges and I sat behind a long table, ala American Idol, and watched in amazement as performer after performer recited line after line. Many were nervous, some bold, a few slightly defiant in their stance, and others shy. However, they each brought something special into the room, and when asked why they auditioned, their answers were woven with a similar thread. They knew that in order to change their lives, they had to try something new. This was an opportunity to see themselves in a new light, and they didn’t want to miss their chance. We really wanted this to work, because after all, second chances is the central theme of A Christmas Carol.
And then entered Scrooge.
One of the GF’s decided to audition and the mild-mannered man transformed into a disgruntled, highly abrasive, powerhouse who berated the judges on their lack of professionalism (we were running behind on time) and demanded excellence. He paced back and forth as he recited the passage that he obviously felt was beneath him. Finished, GF Kibeon gave the judges a look of utter contempt before storming out of the room.
Apparently, he was done.
The GF’s and I looked at each other with identical expressions of bewilderment and utter excitement. We found our Scrooge! This could work! We could actually pull this off!
“The show must go on.”
As I walked onto the yard, the following day, my mind went over the list. The cast was selected, check. The music for the performance was selected and burned onto discs, check. The sound crew went over the script, check. The scripts were given to the actors, check. The instruments and sound system were in working order, check. The props were mostly created and accounted for, check. Visitation was scheduled for rehearsal, check.
I paused. The yard, which is usually brimming with orange, was empty. My heart sunk. No! I called the control office. Was the yard locked down?
Their reply was succinct. “Yes, ma’am, the yard is locked down for searches.” Jesus, just take me now! Of all the days to lock down the yard for searches, it had to be the day our rehearsal was scheduled. The only day we could rehearse. The day right before our first performance!
The GF’s, the sound crew, and I were able to go into Visitation to visualize and plan the layout for the performance, but by the time the lockdown was lifted, there was no way to run through a full rehearsal. The inmates didn’t even have lunch yet, which was a process in itself.
I remember looking around the empty Visitation room, and thinking, “How is this going to work? How are we going to rally random inmates, most of whom have no acting experience, to perform in front of their peers with no rehearsal time? They JUST got their scripts yesterday! And there was a dancing scene!!!”
I watched the Correctional Officers pass by the windows with a curious look on their faces. This. Is. Not. Good. This play is the talk of the town, and it’s going to be a disaster. To say that we were in panic mode would be an understatement. But as they say in the biz, “The show must go on.”
“Everyone was looking at me to lead the team.”
Worried, I arrived early on opening day. I walked into the building, flipped on the light, and saw a life-sized coffin beautifully crafted out of cardboard in the middle of the floor. The props crew had gotten permission from a CO to finish the props the night before. I’ve heard it said many times, but man! There is so much talent behind bars.
I almost cried, and a tiny glimmer of hope sprung from the darkness. Just…maybe.
The GF’s and volunteers arrived shortly after, and it was time to get to work. We grabbed scripts, props, blankets, lists with character names and the actors housing locations, extra chairs, tables, and so much more. I was the only staff member in the building, so I had to race back and forth to provide supervision. My heart was thumping in time with my footsteps. We were running out of time.
The sound crew met with the recreation CO in Visitation who graciously allowed us to use his sound equipment for the play. In an hour, we had set up the stage and the seating. Now, where the heck were the actors? Seriously! Where. Were. The. Actors.
The actors were supposed to arrive an hour early to prep and run through their scenes. We had a room for them to rehearse in and wait for the stage manager to alert them of their upcoming scene. The play had over 25 roles, and I only saw 10 actors amidst the buzz of activity. I was told that “so and so was here, but such and such didn’t want to do it anymore. Or what’s his face would be late. Uh, could I call x, y, and z on the radio so he could be released from work.”
Alright, stop!
I told everyone that I was going to do a roll call. If they were not part of the cast or crew, they would have to step outside so we could prepare to give them the show of a lifetime. One older gentleman crossed his arms, and said, “I’m not moving. If I leave, then I won’t come back.” Well…then.
I had someone monitor the door, and I called roll.
I had all the actors assemble in the back room, and I sent two GF’s to find the missing cast. If they weren’t coming, I needed to know NOW so I could find replacements. The play was scheduled to start in mere minutes, and we didn’t have all of our cast. Most of the actors who had arrived didn’t have their scripts, and everyone was looking at me to lead the team.
“Scene after scene went without a hitch…until…”
Damage control. I spoke to the actors who were available and asked if they would assume another role. They were ready and willing. Perfect. Focusing on the first five scenes so we could start – the audience was filing in – the GF’s and I split our scripts into sections and provided them to the actors. I quickly created an 8 count for the dancing scene and hurriedly taught the actors. We found a few volunteers to lift the curtain in between scenes, and we were off!
I took a deep breath, and with more confidence than I felt, I introduced our play. We started about 20 minutes late. The stage was flanked by two curtains. The prop crew and I were on one side. The sound crew, the stage manager, and the actors were on the other side. We all had a script with notes that we followed throughout the performance, and oh! What a performance!
One of the CD players broke, and we couldn’t switch songs as much as planned. The sound crew worked feverishly to accommodate the numerous song changes in time with each scene. To get the attention of GF McCoy and the rest of the sound crew, I would flap my arms like a bird, and write messages on the back of the script like “Change song” or “Repeat.”
In this version of the play there are letters that Scrooge’s nephew Fred gives to his Uncle Scrooge but the letters were on my side of the stage. I handed the letters to the runner and whispered, “Walk around and hand these to Fred.” He nodded and disappeared. Well, the actor who played Fred hadn’t arrived, so he had no idea who to give the letters to. In the meantime, a volunteer who’d helped in every other capacity, but was insistent that he did not want to act, walked onto the stage and read the lines for Fred. I felt such gratitude. He performed the part beautifully, and then came the line about the letters.
There was a pause on stage, and suddenly, a hand whips the curtains back, and hands the letters to Fred. The audience erupts in laughter. There were several magical moments during that performance that simply took my breath away. Moments when everything flowed, and in the middle of the chaos, I would stand and watch, captivated. The scene with Scrooge and Marley was so powerful, the audience clapped and whistled.
We were doing it! The dance scene, with male and female roles, was a huge hit! They twirled around and repeated the 8 count that they had just learned while the musician sang his heart out! Scene after scene went without a hitch…until…
We lost our scripts. Remember, when I’d mentioned that the GF’s and I gave out most of our scripts to the actors. Well, it just got worse. In the last scene before intermission, Scrooge glanced off stage. He needed a script. I looked at the stage manager who said, “I gave you my script.” I looked at him and said, “I gave it to Scrooge.” We looked at someone else who gave their script to someone else. Everyone was so confused that Scrooge just lifted up his hands and said, “I don’t know what’s going on,” and walked off the stage.
“The second half was marvelous!”
On that note, I had to walk in front of the audience and ask them to return later in the day for the remainder of the play. The audience hollered that they wanted to stay during outcount, but we had to regroup. We had a late start, and since we didn’t have a rehearsal, we didn’t know the production’s running time.
The cast and crew barely spoke over lunch. We were so dejected. I felt like a complete failure, and we even discussed cancelling our second performance. Why embarrass ourselves a second time?
We took a deep breath and made more copies of the script. I wrote my name across the top of my script in big letters. I wasn’t giving that sucker away. The sound crew and I went over the musical transitions. We looked at the list of characters and chopped the cast by half. We’d only focus on the actors that had committed. We didn’t have time to search the unit for people. We didn’t have time for a lot of things. We reorganized the prop schedule and went with a minimal look.
We learned from our mistakes, and when the curtain went up we were ready to finish the play and never do anything like this ever again.
The second half was marvelous!Utter magic! The scenes mimicked our theatrical journey. After much turmoil, we triumphed. We felt renewed. We had hope. We had a second chance. I couldn’t describe how I felt as I saw everything flow in perfect harmony.
We looked at each other when we received a standing ovation. Okay, maybe we could do a second performance.
“A Christmas miracle.”
A Christmas Carol was a Christmas miracle. A few people have told me that it was the best Christmas they’d ever had in their life. Ironically, it was in prison. The unit was filled with a joy that bubbled just under the surface, and the effect lasted for weeks. The positivity was contagious, and there were even murmurs about building a stage. This play helped transform the worst time of the year into a year that no one would forget.
A Christmas Carol was one of the most unforgettable experiences in my life. I was aware that there were certain moments within this extraordinary experience that changed the trajectory of the production: having a supportive supervisor, meeting the Group Facilitators, the volunteers I met while decorating for Christmas, the random conversation with the GF in my office about a play, emailing that particular playwright, the retiring DW’s desire to witness an inmate-run play, nudging GF Kibeon to play Scrooge and his unforgettable audition, meeting the sound crew (we couldn’t have completed the play without them), the support from the correctional staff, and the courage of the actors who auditioned and performed.
I didn’t realize until almost a year later, how much strength it took the inmates to participate in the play. Prison culture heavily discouraged personal discovery, and each participant knew the code. They made a conscious decision to go against the status quo and choose something different, even for a moment. For this, I am eternally grateful.
And they wanted more! The actors who were in the play, wanted a larger role next time. The people who didn’t audition, wanted to audition for the next one. The people who missed the performance, wanted a first-row seat for the next play. The assumption was that there would be a next time.
“…with this team, we could do anything.”
After the play, I said, “Never again.” Though the experience was exceptional, I didn’t think I could go through the process again. I didn’t think I even wanted to do the process again.
The GF’s were on another track altogether, and soon, they won me over. I didn’t know much, but I did know one thing – with this team, we could do anything. I mean, we produced A Christmas Carol, in 5 days. Everything else would be a piece of cake.
We came up with a new program that would consist of four rotating monthly events: Poetry Corner, Talent Showcase, The Fine Arts & Crafts Show, and a Seasonal Play. The mission was to Celebrate Recovery by allowing inmates an outlet for self-expression, let them showcase/discover their skills and talents, break out of their comfort zones, and validate and affirm their humanity. The program gives the inmates something to look forward to, something to prepare for, something to participate in, and something to challenge their view of themselves. In summation, it’s therapy in disguise. More importantly, like A Christmas Carol, it would be available to anyone on the yard.
Great plan, but we had a problem. The DW retired, and the new DW might not be so program friendly. If the DW said no, then it was a wrap. He was the boss.
The new DW was absolutely supportive, and we moved full speed ahead. We hosted our first Poetry Corner, which like A Christmas Carol, had auditions, rehearsals (thank God!), props, and a packed performance. The performance had a café feel, and the GF’s, resembling waiters, providing popcorn and coffee for our guests.
We were on a roll. We had auditions for our next event, the Talent Showcase, and I even managed to speak to donors to help fund future performances. It seemed as if nothing could stop us.
Enter COVID-19. Like the rest of the world, everything changed, and our program was dismantled.
It’s unfortunate that the program was cancelled but I’ve come to learn in life that there are only temporary victories. That the rights won today must be defended tomorrow. And it’s not just people that require transformation it’s institutions as well and that’s a much bigger and much longer process. But even though things may not always work out we should remember the words of Scrooge’s nephew Fred when he tells his Uncle why he celebrates Christmas.
“Uncle I have always thought of Christmas time as a kind, forgiving, charitable time. It is the one time of the year, when men and women open their hearts and think of all people as fellow passengers to the grave, and not as another race of creatures bound on different journeys. And therefore, though it has never put a scrap of gold or silver in my pocket, I believe that it has done me good, and will do me good; and I say, God bless it!”
Interview with Juliet Liraz: Everybody needs compassion.
At the end of November, I contacted Juliet Liraz to talk with her a little more about her experience producing A Christmas Carol at the Department of Corrections and about the transformative nature of theatre and story. I started off by asking her if she thought our role in life is to make the world a better place, and if so, how do we do that.
JULIET
I do personally believe that our role is to make the world better and to make it better in a way that’s uniquely us. So, the way people do that is through their gifts and through their experience, and I think it’s varied, but the theme is always the same. You hope that the world is a better place because you were in it. I try intentionally with every interaction I have to leave the other person feeling better than they were before I walked in the room. Because you never really know what somebody’s going through. And it can’t hurt. It can only heal. It can only help. That’s my personal philosophy.
JAMES
Where do you think that compassion comes from?
JULIET
I just know when I was at my worst…when I was at my most unlovable and hateful…that was always the time when I needed somebody to brush past that and go into my circle and tell me, “It’s okay.” And sometimes I still need that. It’s part of the human experience. So, I try to assume, regardless of how happy or miserable somebody is on the outside everybody needs compassion.
JAMES
You mentioned prison culture in your description of putting on the play. What is prison culture? What is that like?
JULIET
I know about prison culture from working in a prison. I was always a visitor. So, I was always aware that I’m only seeing the tip of the iceberg. It’s very different asking somebody who was incarcerated for a certain period of time about prison culture. They’ll definitely have their own version. But from what I glimpsed, prison culture is very insular. There are definite codes. They say there’s a difference between a convict and there’s a difference between an inmate. A convict is the more positive version because that’s someone that has the code, and they stick to the code, and they mind their own business. They follow the rules. I was aware of that, to some extent, but doing the play really just threw all of that to the side. And I’m really surprised that it was as successful as it was.
JAMES
What is the biggest misconception based on your experience that people have who are outside of the prison system – the general public – what is the biggest misconception they have about what prisons are, do you think?
JULIET
I don’t want to say this lightly. There are violent things that happen in prison. That’s absolutely true. But Nigerian writer Chimamanda Adichie talks about the danger of only having a single story about another person or another country and how that can lead to misunderstanding. And everything I knew about prison was what I saw on TV and the articles I read about stabbings and things of that nature. And those things absolutely do happen, but that’s a single story, and that’s why I’m really glad that you’re having this interview because there are wonderful things that happen in the most unlikely of spaces. I’ve seen acts of kindness and compassion that took my breath away. While I was working there I saw people who had nothing give freely. Even though they say in prison culture nothing’s free. Be careful. Gifts aren’t free in prison. They say there’s always a string attached to it. But I had the most transformative experiences in a positive way while working in prison. There’s so much more than meets the eye.
JAMES
You mentioned stories. You mentioned you had seen transformative things. I want to talk about stories and the power of story and the importance of story. What do you think it is about a story that gives it the power to be transformative?
JULIET
Human beings are hardwired for storytelling. Certain parts of our brain like cortisol. Cortisol is part of our fight or flight response. That’s triggered when you’re listening to a story. Oxytocin is triggered when you listen to a story and that’s attached to love and connection and belonging. And together that creates empathy. So, our brains literally just light up when we hear a story. We’re able to feel exactly what the character’s feeling. If the characters sad our brain tells us we feel sad. Our mirror neurons mean we are literally hardwired to learn, to grow, to develop, to adapt, to explore through listening to stories.
JAMES
Why did you choose A Christmas Carol for the story you wanted to tell?
JULIET
A Christmas Carol to me is the classic story about redemption. You have Scrooge who was really poor and that’s something that some of the incarcerated can really relate to. He’s this poor guy who worked his way up the ranks. People are scared of him. He walks into a room – everybody stops talking. He’s all about money. And he pushes away the more humane aspects of who he is on his climb up. And then his business partner comes down and says, “You have to stop what you’re doing otherwise what happened to me is going to happen to you.” So, it’s a story about second chances.
JAMES
Why do you think it’s important to give people second chances?
JULIET
Because we’re human. We’re going to make mistakes. Some of them are small, and some of them are catastrophic, and you can never take it back, and they’re devastating. But I choose to live my life believing that regardless people have value, and we should show compassion and give people that opportunity for change. A lot of people are like you need to change you need to do this, but we have to create an atmosphere that’s supportive of change, and second chances, and new beginnings.
You asked about prison culture. When some of the GF’s were reflecting on the story of A Christmas Carol they were talking about how they treat each other. And you’re treated as if you’re nothing. As if you’re never going to be anything. This is who you are. Stay down here. Know your place. You can’t grow. What are you thinking? Your life is over. And that just creates a cycle. So, just like in the story when Scrooge realizes he wants a better future and made a change I think the inmates definitely learned from that.
JAMES
Right, we have to – as a society – figure out what is the society we would like to have in the future. So, if these people who are incarcerated are going to have an opportunity to participate in that future then we have to figure out what we need to do now to make it possible for them to reintegrate, and it sounds like we’re not really providing them with the tools and opportunities necessary to be able to get back into normal society.
JULIET
Correct. A lot of guys will say, “Oh, I’ll do this when I leave.” or “I’ll start this when I get released.” But you don’t make those changes when you’re already out there. A boxer doesn’t practice when he gets into the ring. He practices before. And a lot of our interventions happen right before somebody leaves, if they even have that opportunity at all. There are thousands of people in prison who don’t have access to programming because we don’t have the staff, or they’re not on a certain list. We’re limiting what people are able to do while they’re in prison, but if we want there to be some sort of massive shift in their consciousness we have to create that.
One of the main events in A Christmas Carol is when Marley came to Scrooge and he said, “If you don’t change your ways this is what’s going to happen to you. I’m giving you this second chance where the universe is going to help you in this magical way for you to be able to go back in your life and to see all these things.” For one, the inmates can really relate to that because they’ve heard that same thing from friends, or if they haven’t heard it before that play was their wake-up call and at that point it was like, “Oh my gosh, I need to change things.”
And in the play when Scrooge went back in time and saw the love of his life and saw how he just pushed her away because he was Scrooge and he was a young man and he’s just making these choices and they’re yelling – the inmates in the audience they’re yelling, “Don’t do it Scrooge!” because as they’re watching that scene they see themselves. They see those pivotal moments in their life where they know they should have gone left, but they went right. And the actor playing Scrooge did such a great job of showing how this horrible belligerent nauseous person just transforms into this carefree young man, and for the audience it was reliving those moments in their lives and seeing what could happen in their own lives if they made a change. It was really magical.
JAMES
I was just thinking about our tendency to label somebody by an incident. So, in other words, if somebody commits a crime that then labels them. I wonder if that’s just part of human nature that we, like you’ve mentioned, latch on to the simplest explanation of the single story, and then we define that person based on that first impression. How do you think as a society we can can help people see the full person?
JULIET
Through art, right. Through storytellers. I am such a fan of the arts because you can touch so many people. One piece of art can touch millions of people, and they can interact with it, and it leads to how they treat their families and other people. And I know we’re not trying to minimize victims’ rights but in order for our society to grow and to evolve we have to see that people are complicated. And I believe the arts are a huge medium for sharing multiple stories about a single event.
JAMES
When you look back at A Christmas Carol what are some of the highlights that come to you in terms of putting on the production.
JULIET
One was when we got the okay from you. You’re like, “Okay let’s do it.” You said yes to this play even though several people would have actually said no to having their play done with this population group. You said, “Hey it’s not a big deal. It’s a great idea.”
And then I had to get permission to actually do it. So, it could be a real thing. And coming in and seeing huge life-sized props that they created out of cardboard. And seeing that enthusiasm where they didn’t know what we were doing, they didn’t know if this was going to work, but we all had that same goal that we were going to make it happen.
And I wanted to make sure that every single person on the yard had the ability to audition. Everyone was like, “Can I come?” Like sure you can. And when you see them walk in and they’re so nervous and then they read for like Tiny Tim – and we talked about prison culture earlier – and in prison culture you don’t do that. Like in most prisons you’re segregated by race. You sit here. You do this. You’re a good soldier, right. And this was something that required them to take their own initiative. Not only that but to say, “I know this isn’t what’s done here, but I’m going to try it anyway.” Like, just having people accept that gift. That to me was the most transformative experience. Having them go, “I’m not going to waste this opportunity. I don’t care what I look like. I’m going to take it.” And to me that type of bravery, especially when I worked in the prison longer and I really realized what was at stake and what they were risking was amazing. I have no words for it.
And I created a program for the production and I can’t tell you how many people wanted more than one. They sent it to their moms. They sent it to their wives. They sent it to their kids especially to tell them, “Look what I did. You never thought I would be in something like this. Look what I did. Look at what I was a part of.” It had their name on it. I had a little biography in there just like in playbill, and they said their families were so proud of them. And it almost brought some of them to tears to be able to say, “I took this opportunity. I was a part of something, and I saw a different version of myself.”
And that to me was the miracle. Not only that but to have all the GFs come, because if it wasn’t for them this wouldn’t have happened because they worked nonstop. They set up flyers. They helped with our props. They helped, with these ideas, I would have at the last minute, and they would make it go through. And even with all the fumbles and there were several – you could see the joy – and it was literally the best Christmas that they’ve ever had…myself included. You literally gave several people including myself the best Christmas we’ve ever had, and I can’t even imagine the ripple effect that it had. You absolutely can positively say that you created this experience that has changed my life forever. And I know I’m not the only one.
JAMES
That’s kind of you to say.
In keeping with the spirit of sharing more than a single story, I’m really excited and grateful to be able to share with you two more stories about last year’s production of A Christmas Carol. Group Facilitator McCoy and Group Facilitator Kibeon were kind enough to write out some of their own reflections about A Christmas Carol and what the experience was like for them.
GF McCoy’s Reflections on A Christmas Carol
“…we kicked things into high gear.”
I become a Group Facilitator and started to facilitate recovery groups in October. In these groups, guys talk about their drug abuse and other issues. As a GF we use our state certification to ensure what is said in groups stays in our groups.
When Ms. Liraz came in early December, she wanted to decorate our building. I do much of the maintaining of books, rosters of who’s in groups, and other office duties. I was more than happy to want to cheer up our workspace.
As part of my responsibilities, I also help tell all new arrivals to the unit about the substance abuse program. Every week, guys would step into the building, comment on the decorations, how they loved seeing them, asking me to light them up, and many would stay after orientation to make sure they saw all of the decorations.
Later, Ms. Liraz was talking with another GF about doing a play. I talked about how I watched the Nutcracker around Christmas while in grade school. Ms. Liraz talked about doing a play here. I told her it was possible. Not thinking she would ever be able to do it. I almost wanted to ask her if she knew she worked in a prison. Not much later, Ms. Liraz came back with a play, then an approval from the Deputy Warden. This is when we kicked things into high gear.
“Many people thought it would never happen.”
Now that Ms. Liraz got permission to do the play, we volunteered to do something. I, being a former club promoter, who had worked in radio in college, did the sound and posted flyers all over the unit. I posted flyers on shower doors, dining halls, phones, microwave rooms, education rooms, visitation, next to disciplinary, and near guard bubbles on each individual yard. I was also part of the judge’s panel that helped pick guys for roles.
We made 10 copies of the script for all of us to have. I then made another 20 copies for the auditions. We started – hoping to fill what seemed like 40 roles. I was thinking we would have to change some of the names of the characters, so guys didn’t have to play a girl role. After doing the auditions we had no problem filling most roles. Some of the female roles I found people who wouldn’t have a problem playing. I was tasked with filling some of the missing roles as well as making sure that everyone had a copy of their lines.
Part of getting the sound ready was to look through the script and to make a list of all the sounds like the creaking room, footsteps, clock chimes, crackling fire, and crowd at a marketplace. Then, get the list of all these to Ms. Liraz so she could find them and put them on CDs for us to use for the play.
Luckily, there isn’t much to do in prison around Christmas time. The Props Department read the script to find what props they would need and where they can source the cardboard needed to create them. The GF’s worked with the Commissary and Property Departments to use their old cardboard to build sets as well as getting old blankets for curtains.
Many people thought it would never happen.
We scheduled a rehearsal, but that day we had searches happening so no rehearsals. We tried to organize a weekend rehearsal and a lot of the main characters showed up but that went badly.
We set up for the show the next day. Our set included a coffin, door, fireplace, and other easy to get furniture like a desk and chairs. We had heated conversations on where the stage should be and how actors were to go and come from scenes. I was asked by inmates and officers on multiple occasions if it was actually going to happen.
“…word got out…”
To say everyone was nervous was an understatement. As we looked out into the audience, the Deputy Warden, Captain, Lt., Sgt., and other administrative personnel were there with the inmates eager to see the performance. I have a script for sound and all of the GF’s and Ms. Liraz have scripts. Most of the cast doesn’t. Some didn’t come. They got scared, others, never thought it would happen. Now that it is, they lost their script. And, oh yeah, I had to go and get people and hope to find replacements for those that didn’t show up.
The visitation area had like 30 people in attendance as we started. For the sound, I had to piece together 3 CD players and get them to work with the PA system. As we started, everything was smooth. Then one CD player won’t pause to hold where it needs to start. Another CD player now won’t read the CD. Now I’m missing cues. I look across the stage to see Ms. Liraz frantically trying to signal me.
After we started, I see the audience start to grow. A random CO stops by. More inmates come in. Since we never rehearsed, we took longer than expected and we needed to stop, break for lunch outcount, and finish the play in the afternoon. The afternoon performance was packed, word got out that not only did we do it, but it was good with some funny parts.
I was able to work out a cross-stage communication with Ms. Liraz, so now, my panicking about not having the sound at the right spot was less. The second half was much easier. To our amazement, we were able to do another performance the next week. The performance went off with a better understanding of what can happen. More inmates and prison staff showed up.
“After being able to do a play in 5 days, we were beyond cocky.”
I had been in prison for 9 ½ years when we did this play. This is my only prison experience where when I had to go off unit to a doctor’s appointment both the inmates and officers from other units asked me about the play. A counselor who went to both performances was amazed. She normally doesn’t go to any inmate thing. Many inmates and officers were asking, what’s next?
The experience of doing the play opened people up to our program and the need for an outlet for their feelings. As you might guess, more people are willing to talk with a GF about their feelings. Many people now wanted to participate in the next thing.
After being able to do a play in 5 days, we were beyond cocky. All of the GF’s figured if we had a month we could do anything. Ms. Liraz asked me and another GF to put together a schedule to do just that. The next day we had stretched 5 days into a month. Our first step would be a Poetry Corner, followed by a Talent Show, an Art Show, and a Seasonal Play.
I once again posted flyers all over the unit, with the new schedule. The Poetry Corner that we were able to do was great with an outstanding turnout. Officers, inmates, and administrators all were in attendance. All actively waiting for the next event, the Talent Show. Then…COVID.
GF Kibeon’s Reflections on A Christmas Carol
“…this lady is f***ing crazy.”
I have been incarcerated for over 15 ½ years and came to prison when I was 19 years old. I was working as a Group Facilitator when I met Ms. Liraz. From an inmate perspective, anytime we encounter a new staff member, we always try to figure out if they are “pro-inmate” or not. In other words, do they believe we are human beings who deserve to be treated with dignity, or do they believe we are criminals who must be punished and mistreated.
After the first few days working with her, we all knew she was the former. We knew she genuinely wanted to help all of us. She has a heart of gold, and an inspiring light that surrounded her wherever she went. It was contagious. She quickly became the oasis for the yard – the saving grace for those stranded at sea. People like her are sacred and rare because they do not come around very often, and they usually don’t stay long when they do.
She had been here for maybe a month when she first mentioned putting on a Christmas play. The first thought that flashed across my mind was “this lady is f***ing crazy.” I mumbled a response of “that would be cool, but I don’t think staff will go for it.” To my shock, she told me a few days later that everything was approved. My mind continued to be the Doubting Thomas, thinking very few people would want to participate. I learned a valuable lesson that day: Never doubt Ms. Liraz because she will consistently prove you wrong. My new thought was “this should be interesting.”
“I decided to embrace the magic…”
She asked me a few days later if I wanted to audition. I told her that I didn’t really want to audition or act. She pushed, prodded, and encouraged me to do it. “Come on, it will be fun, and you would be great.” I reluctantly told her that I would audition for a role as a backup if no one else volunteered. I figured this was a good way to appease her, and I probably would not have to act, and if I did, it would be a small part. I had no idea that at that point I just strapped myself into the seat of a roller coaster…
On audition day, I was informed that there was one person who auditioned for Scrooge and he had a legal call, so since I agreed to be a backup, I would be auditioning for Scrooge in a few hours. “Oh, f***!!” I thought. Ms. Liraz told me to just have fun and don’t worry about it. She said I didn’t have to do it if I didn’t want to. But I had already committed, so I agreed to audition.
A coworker of mine told me, “Kibeon, this will be a good experience of walking through fear, that’s what we preach to the guys we work with in recovery.” I responded, “Well, I’m glad you have such a positive outlook on it. I guess that means you will have no problem taking my place.” “Oh no, I can’t do that, what, are you crazy?” I was overwhelmed with stress and anxiety. I was scared…I was pissed.
I arrived later for auditions, and I was impressed by how official and organized things were. There was an actual casting crew in the backroom and there was a doorman who greeted me, gave me a script, and said I should be going in, in about 15 minutes. The doorman was a well-known skinhead with a swastika tattooed on his head. He kept smiling and asking me, “Isn’t this the coolest thing in the world? Bro, this is the first time in 20 years of prison that it’s ever felt like Christmas. This is awesome, isn’t?”
At that moment, I realized there was something seriously magical going on. This play had already begun transforming a skinhead’s stereotypical anger and hate into a childlike innocence. Ms. Liraz single-handedly shattered and challenged every cultural norm we had all grown accustomed to living in this place. I decided to embrace the magic and give it my all.
I took my long ponytail down and laid my hair over my face. I decided to become a method actor and not break character during the audition. I channeled all of my anger, bitterness, and resentment that had accumulated throughout my life, took a deep breath, and walked through the door.
Immediately, Ms. Liraz and my coworkers started laughing. I raised my voice in an angry serious tone and began berating them for laughing and treating this like a joke, and almost stormed out the room. The look of fear and confusion that ran across everyone’s faces was priceless, as they did not know if I was joking or not (sidenote: I was joking). I fed off this energy and tried to give the performance of my life…I was hired!
“That experience was one of the most transformative of my life…”
The next few days of preparation were a comedy of errors. Murphy’s law really does exist! What kept us alive and motivated was Ms. Liraz’s belief in us. After years of conditioning, many inmates begin to believe that they are not worthy, not deserving, not trustworthy, stupid, naïve, crooked, and incapable. When someone simply believes in and validates us, we want to give them everything we have.
The nervousness, stress, and anxiety never went away – all the way up until showtime. Once the show started, I transformed into Scrooge and everything else faded away. My coworker was right, walking through our own fear is a great medicine. For weeks afterward people were coming up to me on the yard giving me thanks and praise. I felt like a Rockstar. That experience was one of the most transformative of my life, and it was a result of something so simple: Somebody caring about us, and somebody believing that we are magical and deserve to be treated as human beings.
When I think of A Christmas Carol there are two themes that dominate the story. The themes of compassion and redemption. And I think it’s important to note that the compassion component isn’t just that Scrooge learns to feel empathy and compassion for others but that his change comes about due to the compassion shown to him by the people in his life. His nephew Fred shows up at Scrooge’s office year after year imploring his Uncle to celebrate the Holiday and come for dinner. His business partner Jacob Marley returns from the grave and gives Scrooge a chance for redemption. And his clerk Bob Cratchit and Bob Cratchit’s son Tiny Tim insist on toasting and blessing Scrooge as the founder of the Christmas Feast even though Scrooge’s wages provide a meagre meal for the Cratchit family.
And then of course there’s Scrooge’s redemption which reminds us that how we approach life, how we view the world, how we treat others, is within our power to change at any point in time. Just because the world can be cruel and harsh is no reason for us to be cruel. And I think that’s a terrific message at Christmas or at any time of the year. And so we can certainly learn from stories like A Christmas Carol but we can also learn by those who choose to live their lives believing in others because these people put beliefs into action and one of those people is Juliet Liraz and I think it only right that she be given the last word:
“I do personally believe that our role is to make the world better and to make it better in a way that’s uniquely us. So, the way people do that is through their gifts and through their experience and I think it’s varied but the theme is always the same. You hope that the world is a better place because you were in it. I try intentionally with every interaction I have to leave the other person feeling better than they were before I walked in the room. Because you never really know what somebody’s going through. And it can’t hurt. It can only heal. It can only help. That’s my personal philosophy.“
INTiP International network Theatre In Prison – The INTiP intends to support theatre projects for planning, relationship-building, debate and qualification in prison institutions around the world. INTiP presents itself as an instrument, a reference to the many operators of this growing field in the context of a phenomenon that originated internationally over 60 years ago.
The names of those involved with the production and identifying details regarding organizations and places have been changed to protect the privacy of individuals.
This interview and the additional content provided for this blog has been edited for length and clarity.
I love that quote from Ezra Pound that artists are the antenna of the nation. I love that because it’s as if artists are sort of tuned into the zeitgeist of what is important to people right now or what they’re talking about. But I don’t know if a play can ever change anything. I think it can ask questions. Generate discussion from viewers, but I don’t know if it’s actually where the change happens. I think change happens in people’s hearts, really.
You know there’s research that’s been done with audiences that shows their heartbeats and breathing actually get into a rhythm while they’re watching the same play. There’s something really intimate and connecting about that. It’s amazing. Plus, theatre does hit at the heartstrings. Hits at the emotions. Hits at the brain waves. It does all those things and helps us think about issues and relationships – things that maybe we don’t often think about.
Tracy Carroll Director – Dramaturg – Producer
For six years, playwrights, actors, and audiences have been gathering at Holy Trinity Anglican Church in Edmonton for a monthly play-reading series called Script Salon. While the in-person gatherings have stopped, due to COVID-19, Script Salon ended 2020 with an online reading of my romantic comedy Under the Mistletoe.
Under the Mistletoeis about Harvey Swanson and Nancy Potter, two old friends, who find themselves trying to navigate the tricky road of love, sex, and desire while spending a romantic night in the Candy Cane Suite at the Prairie Dog Inn Regina during the holiday season. The play will be performed by Ian Leung and Melissa Thingelstad and is being directed by Tracy Carroll.
I connected with Katherine Koller and Tracy Carroll, the producers of Script Salon, over ZOOM a couple of weeks ago to talk with them about theatre, the origins of Script Salon, and their plans for 2021.
JAMES
I’m wondering, as artists, and as playwrights, and as theatre people, do you think people, as human beings, are ruled more by mind or emotion?
KATHERINE
I think it’s always going to be emotion. And I think that’s the brilliance of theatre because it hits us in the gut before it gets us in the head.
TRACY
I think it may depend on the person. Some people are led more by the heart, and some are led more by the head. It depends, I would think.
JAMES
You mentioned theatre, but how do you think stories, in general, appeal to the mind, to the intellect, of people.
KATHERINE
I think one of the big reasons we are story people is that we are curious to know how someone else has solved the problem that we may not yet have met. So, I think we’re constantly gathering evidence, both emotional and intellectual knowledge, to help us navigate a world in which there’s no guidebook.
JAMES
How much do you consider theatre, a collaborative art? And how much do you see theatre as an expression of an individual vision?
TRACY
It’s wholly collaborative. A hundred percent. Even though it can be an isolating kind of craft with the playwright often writing by themselves eventually the play will be read by someone else. Will be heard by someone else. The characters will come alive with actors. A director gets involved. The designers get involved. The dramaturg. Everybody. It’s always fully collaborative to me.
JAMES
It’s collaborative but then I also wonder about when you want to look at a block of work – a volume of work – a playwright’s ten or fifteen or twenty plays that they write in a lifetime, and I know there’s collaboration, but is there an individual vision in there as well that reveals itself over the course of the playwright, or actor, or director’s lifetime?
KATHERINE
I think, you know, when you put on a play, it’s actually layers of individual visions. I think the playwright has a vision at the beginning which gets elaborated on and challenged and sometimes, you know, surprisingly so, but that’s the nature of what it is. It’s collaborative. The designer has her vision. The lighting person has their vision, and so it’s like these layers of individual visions that go into making the whole, I think.
JAMES
And it’s not unusual for the playwright after seeing a production to rewrite the play and incorporate a lot of those ideas and visions into the rewrites and development of the play, I suppose, is it?
TRACY
That’s right. You’re really not doing it on your own, but when you’re talking about the canon of someone’s work, I think it really depends on the playwright. Some playwrights will write different things with different themes, and others will really hone in on specifics. I’ve worked with one writer quite a bit who pretty much one hundred percent has written about environmental issues in different ways. Other people will write about more personal things. About LGBTQ issues, or family issues, or other important issues in the world.
I had Beth Graham in last week as a guest in the young playwriting company at the Citadel Theatre and we were talking about her different ideas for her plays, because they seem quite varied. And she was asked, “Where do you get your ideas?” And she said, “I don’t know. Sometimes it’s from a headline. Sometimes it’s an image. Sometimes it’s a character. And then it sort of grows into something else. So, the plays are vastly different because they’re coming from different places.”
JAMES
Yes, mentioning Beth and her sensitivity to different inspirations makes me want to ask a question that often gets asked – do you think the theatre is more a reflection of society, or more a catalyst for change? Is it looking back, or is it looking forward?
KATHERINE
I think, it’s always a reflection of what’s going on, which could be a call to action or a desire for change. I love that quote from Ezra Pound that artists are the antenna of the nation. I love that because it’s as if artists are sort of tuned into the zeitgeist of what is important to people right now or what they’re talking about. But I don’t know if a play can ever change anything. I think it can ask questions. Generate discussion from viewers, but I don’t know if it’s actually where the change happens. I think change happens in people’s hearts, really.
TRACY
I agree. I think that’s why plays are so important. They’re a reflection – a little photo of the time – that we’re in, right? And I think that’s important. To reflect. Not just in plays but in art in general. Looking at what’s happening right now helps the future. Knowing the feelings and knowing the struggles helps us think about repeating those things or not repeating those things in the future.
So, for example, I’ll go into a different genre here. Theatre for young audiences is very much about teaching about a specific subject. So, if you’re teaching about bullying hopefully the play will change the future so that these kids, especially the bystanders, will know what to do when they encounter bullying in the future.
And otherwise, there’s a lot of discussion. Some of the best plays I think are when you go to the bar after – which we can’t do right now – but when you go to the bar after and you can really talk about the play and pull it apart and it really makes you think and talk and maybe it makes an individual make a change. You never know.
JAMES
I’m wondering, you mentioned zeitgeist. Because you are involved deeply with Alberta playwrights and the work that’s being done here is there an Alberta voice? Are there any unifying themes? Is there a unique Alberta voice out there that we can identify or not?
TRACY
For some playwrights their setting will be somewhere in Alberta, which of course affects the play. Theme wise – I don’t know. Have you noticed that Katherine?
KATHERINE
That’s a really tricky question. I mean there’s no limit to the kind of voices we hear in Alberta. I don’t think we have corralled ourselves into one category, or theme. I think in Alberta we’ve got so many different voices going on here…
TRACY
…a lot of diverse voices…
KATHERINE
…no one is like the other. That’s what I would say. No one sounds like the other person.
JAMES
I want to move on to Script Salon which is a series of readings that you have been doing up in Edmonton since 2014. I’m just wondering what was the genesis of Script Salon and how has it evolved over the last six years?
KATHERINE
Well, there were four of us in the room and we were all Playwrights Guild of Canada members, and we were trying to come up with a way to showcase work in Edmonton. And we wanted to access the membership of the PGC, and we wanted to elicit assistance from the Alberta Playwrights Network, and we happened to have access to this space at Holy Trinity Anglican Church. And then, you know, we thought, “Well we’ve got all these amazing actors in town who would jump at the chance to do a cold reading.” So, we put all those elements together and then later we expanded out a little bit to be more Alberta based. And then once we started, we realized we had something because people kept coming.
TRACY
And one of the amazing things is that about fifty percent, I think, have gone on to production.
KATHERINE
I think it’s up to like fifty-eight percent. It’s quite high. We started to get artistic directors coming to shows and then we started to get artistic directors coming in the room to rehearse the reading for the shows that they would then go on to direct. And so, we think it’s pretty awesome that theatre companies and playwrights are seeing us as a tryout for a production. It was really fun to see that we were part of that ecosystem of Edmonton theatre. But not all of these were produced in Edmonton. Some of them have gone and been produced in lots of other places.
JAMES
Well let’s talk a little bit about COVID-19 and 2020 here. You had to shift. I know you haven’t had your monthly readings. So, how has COVID-19 impacted Script Salon and then looking at 2021 – what is the plan?
TRACY
Well, one thing is the space, right. We always gathered at the church in this space and we haven’t been able to do that. So, it’s been sort of a challenge to try to figure out what to do. So, we took a pause. We had a little message back in April for our sixth birthday on our Facebook page, and other than that, we’ve been fairly silent except in September we had six writers read from their works. And we did that online. And it was wonderful. And now we’re going to do your Christmas piece which I think is a nice way to wrap up 2020 with some fun for our audience.
KATHERINE
One other thing I wanted to mention, James, about the success of Script Salon is the audience. We spent six years developing a really unique community. We open our doors about forty-five minutes before the show and it’s a racket in there. People are talking to each other and reconnecting. And you know, part of the fun is that they get to see each other again, and they get their drink and chat, and that’s something I don’t always see in the theatre. In the theatre I see this kind of anticipatory, you know, sort of hush, but not at Script Salon. I’ve had people in the audience come to me and say, “I so love this. I’m a theatre goer anyway, but when I come to Script Salon I feel like I’m part of the theatre. I feel like I’m contributing because I can hear the playwright talkback afterward, and I can ask a question, and I can go up to the playwright and give my compliments directly in person.” And those are things you can’t actually do very easily at a production. So, the audience part is essential to the way we do things and that’s why we were kind of at a loss when we couldn’t meet with our audience directly.
But then, when we did the readings in September. You know, we were very surprised at the loyalty of the audience coming in, and the feedback that we got afterward, and people were so happy that we were still alive. I don’t know how much we can speak about 2021 and what we’re going to do. We have one plan for January. Maybe Tracy you want to talk about that.
TRACY
In January of 2021, we’re going to do readings, just like we did in September, except we’re going to have all Albertan BIPOC writers, so they’ll read from their works. And then, in March, we will do readings from the Alberta Playwriting Competition. And in April, for our 7th anniversary, we’re going to do more readings from playwrights. And then we’re going to see what happens with COVID and if we can get back into our space.
JAMES
We were talking about collaborative versus individual vision, and then we touched on audience, and I guess your final collaborator in the creative process is the audience. And so, I’m wondering about your own thoughts about theatre as a social gathering as a community event. Why are you attracted to this community experience and the creation of theatre?
TRACY
Well, let’s see James, I started dancing when I was four, and I think I was Chicken Little when I was about six or seven.
JAMES
So, it’s been a lifelong passion.
TRACY
Indeed. Yeah, boy, it really feels when I think about theatre and the gathering tradition…ritual…I really…I really miss that. That’s for sure. And having that liveness in front of you – there’s just nothing like it, and it’s not the same on-screen. Although I’m really enjoying some things on screen. But that interaction with audiences is everything, whether it’s watching the play, or being in the lobby and talking about things beforehand or afterwards.
You know there’s research that’s been done with audiences that shows their heartbeats and breathing actually get into a rhythm while they’re watching the same play. There’s something really intimate and connecting about that. It’s amazing. Plus, theater does hit at the heartstrings. Hits at the emotions. Hits at the brain waves. It does all those things and helps us think about issues and relationships – things that maybe we don’t often think about.
Theatre really is about bringing community together, so it’s really challenging right now with COVID and I am hoping that all our theatres in Edmonton and Calgary can hang on and get through so we can do theatre in the future. We’ll get over it eventually. You know, the world has been through plagues before, and theatres have come back, so theatre is going to come back. There’s, I think, no doubt about that, but it’s shifting things. It’s making things different. I think that all this online stuff is really interesting because there’s a different kind of access for a lot of people, which is really fascinating to me. So, it might be an interesting way to keep new audiences coming by having some of this online interaction, you know, along with the live part.
KATHERINE
I do agree with Tracy that we’ve had to find other ways to access our need for theatre, and for myself, what’s happened is that audio drama has filled that niche probably more than zoom theatre or film, because I’m partially creating the show as I’m listening to it in my own head.
TRACY
And I think a lot of theatres, and a lot of theatre-makers are doing just unbelievably creative things whether it’s something live like a cabaret type of thing or something on screen or workshops or whatever people are offering, I think it’s amazing. And boy, the access has been incredible for artists to be able to…
KATHERINE
…to work with anybody…
TRACY
…right to work with anybody across the country. It’s just incredible. So, I hope that the creativity and collaboration just keep happening. And on top of COVID the other layer is a bigger awareness of Black Lives Matter and of BIPOC artists, being involved. That’s a whole other layer that’s going to shift our rehearsal halls, our readings, and our productions. We have to be more aware of everybody in the room and my hope is that we have a more inclusive working space for everyone.
Under the Mistletoe CAST Ian Leung as Harvey Swanson Melissa Thingelstad as Nancy Potter
Ian Leung is pleased to be reading at Script Salon again. His recent theatre credits include Pastor John in The Blue Hour (SkirtsAfire Festival), Daedalus in Slight of Mind (Theatre Yes), King Berenger in Exit the King (Studio Theatre), Wormold in Our Man in Havana (Bright Young Things), Professor Ogawa in Pugwash (Ship’s Company Theatre) and Trigorin in Stupid F**king Bird (Edmonton Actors Theatre).
Melissa Thingelstad received her BFA in Acting from the University of Alberta and has worked as a professional actor in Amiskwacîwâskahikan (Edmonton) for fifteen years. She is an Associate Producer for theatre no. 6, an Artistic Associate with Theatre Yes and was cocurator on the National Elevator Project. Her acting portfolio includes stage work, film work, and voice over. She has had the great privilege of working in Edmonton, Banff, Winnipeg, Washington, DC, London, England, and Halifax and is the recipient of three Elizabeth Sterling Haynes awards for acting. Theatre credits include: Slight of Mind, Viscosity, and The List (Theatre Yes), Stupid F@#king Bird and Fatboy (Edmonton Actors Theatre), An Accident (Northern Light Theatre), Kill Me Now (Workshop West Playwright’s Theatre), and Proud and The Fever (theatre no.6). Melissa has also collaborated on new works for a number of multidisciplinary festivals in the city including: Visualeyze Festival, Storefront Cinema Nights, The Expanse Movement Festival, and The Kaleido Festival.
Tracy Carroll has worked as a director, dramaturg, teacher and producer for over 20 years including 6 years as the Artistic Associate- North for Alberta Playwrights’ Network and Artistic Associate at the Citadel Theatre where she co-created and directed KidsPlay @ the Citadel.
She is the Coordinator of Peep Show!, a tease of new plays, which started during the inaugural SkirtsAfire Festival in 2013, co-producer of Script Salon, a monthly play-reading series featuring Alberta plays and playwrights and co-producer of EDMONten- A Showcase of Ten-Minute Plays.
Tracy was dramaturg on The Mommy Monologues, written by 10 women and produced at SkirtsAfire 2017. She also directed and dramaturged The Book of Ashes by Emil Sher for the Northern Alberta Children’s Festival, Last Chance Leduc by Katherine Koller and The Invention of Romance and Matara by Conni Massing at Workshop West Playwrights’ Theatre.
Tracy is facilitator of the Young Playwriting Company at the Citadel Theatre, teaches for the Writes of Passage program in schools, and has been offering online playwriting classes through her company Write-A-Play. She also teaches Drama in the Classroom to teachers and will be offering workshops at several Alberta Teachers’ Conventions in 2021.
Katherine Koller writes for stage, screen and page. Her first plays were for CBC radio. Her Alberta LandWorks Trilogy is Coal Valley: The Making of a Miner, The Seed Savers and Alberta Playwriting Competition winner, Last Chance Leduc.
Her opera, The Handless Maiden, received a recital reading in Vancouver and Hope Soup, for radio, was recorded at the 2019 Edmonton Fringe and available at .
Her web series, about Edmonton youth changing their world, is at sustainablemeyeg.ca. Art Lessons, her novel, was a finalist for the Edmonton Book Prize and the Alberta Readers’ Choice Award. Winner of a High Plains Book Award and the Exporting Alberta Award, Winning Chance is her recent collection of short stories.
When I was eighteen I was freaking out about paying for theatre school and doing this career because I’d been told how hard it is and there are so many unknowns, and my dad sat down beside me, and he was quiet for a moment, and then he put his hand on my back and he went, “Do the thing that you want to do until you don’t want to do it anymore. And then find something else to do.” And I stopped freaking out. And of all my mentors, that sentence is the best piece of advice I ever got, because you wouldn’t want to be forty and going, “God, I wish at eighteen I’d gone and done what I wanted to do.”
Griffin has worked extensively on stage appearing in productions for Theatre Calgary, The Shakespeare Company, Lunchbox Theatre, and Birnton Theatricals. He made his film debut at the age of twelve alongside Matthew Perry in the feature film The Ron Clark Story and can currently be seen in the Alberta produced Abracadavers by Numera Films which is available on the Fantasy Network and Amazon Prime.
Griffin is currently working on several film, television and theatre projects while also launching and co-hosting The Breakfast Dish Podcast along with his mother Karen Johnson-Diamond. The Breakfast Dish offers listeners get-to-know-you conversations with a variety of artists creating dance, music, visual art, and theatre online.
I heard about the D. Michael Dobbin Apprenticeship Program at ATP and I applied and got in and it was phenomenal because you are cycled through almost every department at the theatre. So, my first couple of weeks were in props and costumes. And then, marketing, and then play development, and fundraising, and youth education and outreach. And as part of the apprenticeship, you get to assistant stage manage a show during the ATP season, and I worked on the Last Voyage of Donald Crowhurst with Ghost River Theatre.
My stage management team was Jen Swan and Patti Neice, and I had an appreciation for the acting side of production, but I don’t think I had a full appreciation of stage management until that show, because Ghost River Theatre Shows are very tech-heavy. I think Jen was working with something like a thousand to fifteen hundred cues and there were a million props. It was very Brechtian, and the audience sees everything working. That gave me such an appreciation and love for stage managers everywhere.
Braden Griffiths in Alberta Theatre Projects’ production of Ghost River Theatre’s The Last Voyage of Donald Crowhurst. Photo by Benjamin Laird. Set and Costume Design: Patrick Du Wors. Lighting Design: Kerem Çetinel. Sound Design and Video Technology: Matthew Waddell. Video Design and Technology: Wladimiro A. Woyno Rodriguez.
JAMES HUTCHISON
Talk about being thrown into the deep end.
GRIFFIN
Totally and you know, Eric Rose and David van Belle from Ghost River Theatre and everyone were as accommodating as they could be. But because of the nature of that show and how intense it was no one really had the chance to sit down and explain things. Which is also kind of how I prefer learning anyway is trial by fire. I like going in and figuring it out in the moment. That’s how I learn best. When there’s a little bit of pressure.
JAMES
What was that show about?
GRIFFIN
So, basically there’s this British race to sail around the world solo – you don’t bring anybody with you – it’s just you in a boat sailing around the world. And Donald Crowhurst isn’t really a sailor. He’s more of an inventor and things went poorly on the ship.
JAMES
He and several others set off on this voyage and he decided he’d never make it. So, he went down and pretended to be going around the world, but all the time he was just floating off South America. His plan wasn’t to win the race but then everyone else ended up dropping out of the race for various reasons and he was the last one, and he knew that if he finished the race he’d be found out.
GRIFFIN
Totally. He’s faking logs. He’s faking radio check-ins. And the craziest part is the only real evidence we have of his race is his black box entries, his fake logs, and his journals. There’s not actually a clear picture of what happened and what he did and where he went, because eventually he goes absolutely insane. And I can’t remember if this is true or not, but in our adaptation of the story he jumps off the boat and drowns.
The cast of Alberta Theatre Projects’ production of Ghost River Theatre’s The Last Voyage of Donald Crowhurst. Photo by Benjamin Laird. Set and Costume Design: Patrick Du Wors. Lighting Design: Kerem Çetinel. Sound Design and Video Technology: Matthew Waddell. Video Design and Technology: Wladimiro A. Woyno Rodriguez.
JAMES
It’s true that the boat was found abandoned.
GRIFFIN
Yeah, they did find the boat. So anyway, it’s a combination of sea madness, and guilt, and you know everything that he would put his family through if he came back and it was revealed that he faked it. It was an outstanding production.
JAMES
So, looking at that experience, and the people you’re connected with now. How has that helped you in your career making those connections and working on those shows?
GRIFFIN
That’s the number one benefit of the MDA is that it allows you to meet people in the profession. ATP is in the Arts Commons which is Calgary’s central arts building. And so you’re around there all the time working in the office when actors and directors are coming in to pick up their scripts or when you go down to the cafe and get your lunch for the day and you meet people there. It’s a phenomenal networking opportunity.
The cast of Alberta Theatre Projects’ production of Ghost River Theatre’s The Last Voyage of Donald Crowhurst (on screen: Griffin Cork (Apprentice Stage Manager), Braden Griffiths and Vanessa Sabourin). Photo by Benjamin Laird. Set and Costume Design: Patrick Du Wors. Lighting Design: Kerem Çetinel. Sound Design and Video Technology: Matthew Waddell. Video Design and Technology: Wladimiro A. Woyno Rodriguez.
JAMES
Who are some of the folks who have been significant for providing you some guidance and what are some of the key pieces of advice they’ve given you over time?
GRIFFIN
I remember there was a point at the University of Lethbridge where I had to decide between two shows and I called Braden Griffiths who played Donald Crowhurst, and I aspire to have a career trajectory like his and also to be as well-liked as Braden is. He’s a phenomenal actor. He’s a lovely man. I consider him a very close friend, and the best advice he gave me about choosing a role was, “Don’t think about the production, don’t think about the company, don’t think about the money, none of those things matter. If there’s a conflict, you go with the one that serves you artistically at the time.”
JAMES
What role was that?
GRIFFIN
I had to choose between an ensemble part in the UofL mainstage production of Carrie, or a decently larger part in Dennis Kelly’s show DNA but with Theater Extra which is the student company at the University of Lethbridge. It’s about a group of teens that do something bad and then they have to decide how to cover it up and deal with that guilt. I eventually ended up going with the DNA role because it was a little meatier. I’m glad I did. I loved that show so much that my company Hoodlum Theatre produced it the summer after.
Hoodlum Theatre’s Production of DNA by Dennis Kelly (From L to R): Taylor Sisson, Walker Nickel, Ciaran Volke, John Tasker and Miku Beer Photo by Griffin Cork
GRIFFIN
And I have to give love to Samantha McDonald. She was one of, and still is one of, my greatest mentors. When she was production manager at Lunchbox Theatre she would look over some of the grants I wrote and she gave us rehearsal space for Hoodlum’s first show. And she took me out to dinner one time and the piece of advice that she gave me was, “There are going to be so many things in this career that try and break you. Don’t let them break you. There are going to be so many things in this career that don’t mean to deter you but will. Don’t let them deter you.” And I think that’s a really elegant and poignant way of saying this career is hard work but it’s possible, and there’s a lot of things that really make it worthwhile.
And my mom and dad are Karen Cork and Kevin Cork. Karen is better known by her stage name Karen Johnson-Diamond. My mother is still an actress and a director, and my father used to be one. He went to Stratford for a few years and I think he had too many productions where he was guard number three and he got kind of disillusioned. So it was like, I don’t want to do this anymore, and now he’s a financial planner. And having someone who has a financial brain in your family, who also knows what it’s like to live on an actor’s budget, is insanely helpful.
Kevin Cork and Karen Johnson-Diamond in As You Like It RIGHT before they got married!
JAMES
How does he allow his artistic side to still get sunlight? What does he do?
GRIFFIN
I’ll tell you, James, him and I have really connected over the past three or four years over Dungeons and Dragons. Which is the tabletop role-playing game and I think the way he gets his creative side out is by being the dungeon master. And in Dungeons and Dragons you can buy books of modules and campaigns to send your characters through, but my dad doesn’t do that. My dad creates his own worlds and rules and settings and characters and plot events. He basically writes a campaign or a quest. And what’s great about it is, if we make stuff up in the session as the characters, he’ll write down the names and what we said and bring them up in a later session. And keep in mind that a lot of Dungeons and Dragon sessions are three to four hours apiece, and campaigns can last from twenty-five to thirty sessions.
JAMES
So, what have you learned from your mom?
GRIFFIN
From my mom I learned kindness, and empathy, and a lot of human values, but if we’re talking career one of the most important things she taught me from a young age is the career and real-life applications of improv. Improv is a phenomenally useful tool for anybody. It teaches you listening, positivity, empathy, and critical thinking. It will literally help you with anything you do, and it’s mind-numbingly useful for acting. A lot of directors like actors that come into the room and can offer a lot of different things on a line or a scene. And that’s what improv is. Improv is having an offer ready.
JAMES
So, I’m wondering when you sit in the audience and you’re watching a show what are your expectations of a production?
GRIFFIN
So, my grandmother, my mother’s mother started seeing a lot more theater after my grandpa, her husband, passed away a couple of years ago. She’d go to the theater and then come home and go to bed and it became like a bedtime story. And a very crucial part of that was because it let her not think about anything else except the story and what was happening in front of her.
She says, “I don’t want to be thinking about my shopping list when I go to a play. If it’s a matinee, I don’t want to be thinking about the thing I have to go to after this matinee. I don’t want to be thinking about any other life event. I want this story to grab my attention. Hold it. And hold it for however long they asked me to be there. An hour. An hour and a half. Two hours. It doesn’t matter.”
And so, for me, I don’t know if there’s any formality or structure or trope or story elements that I have come to expect or demand from a production when I go to the theatre. My expectations have kind of shifted to what my grandmother has described as her expectations, and I think they’re really simple, and I think almost any production can achieve it. “No shopping list,” and that’s a Sandy Moser quote.
Shooting Abracadavers – Photo by Rachael Haugan
JAMES
I know you do some film work so tell me a little bit about how you got involved in film and what you’re working on right now.
GRIFFIN
I started acting in film when I was in grade five, and there was a TV movie coming through town called The Ron Clark Story, and it was about a teacher who goes to this rough and tumble school and has to change things. Matthew Perry, who plays Chandler on Friends, was the teacher, and when he got to this new school the camera pans over to see twelve-year-old Griffin. And I had a rat tail, and vanilla ice lines shaved into the side my head, and a mohawk. And I’m standing in a garbage can. Basically, I was the dumb kid being abused by the teachers. I’m so dumb I have to go stand in the trash. I’m standing in a wastebasket. So, that’s how I got started in film.
And I have a buddy named Josef Wright who I met at Theater Alberta’s ARTSTREK which is a week-long Summer Intensive that happens at Red Deer College. And he was like, “Hey man I’m in film school at SAIT and I’m doing a student film, it’s kind of goofy, do you want to come be in it?” And I was like, “Sure.” And it was about a guy who gets a genie lamp and he’s really lonely and he wishes for a date. And I met the camera operator on that film whose name was Morgan Ermter. And Morgan and Joseph have a film company called Numera Films.
And in 2014 they entered the STORYHIVE Web Series competition which provides winners with funding for the project they’ve entered. And they asked me to be in it, and it was called Abracadavers. So, we did the pilot and sometimes as a film actor you kind of show up to set and you do your bit. You get your cheque. You leave. You’re not usually involved in any of the other parts of the project. But something about the content of this particular project and the people involved and the way they were talking was pretty cool.
And we didn’t win STORYHIVE so I was like, “Okay what are we going to do with it?” And so, we took it to the Banff World Media Festival, and we pitched it to a bunch of distributors and financers. And basically, I just bugged my way into Numera Film. I pestered Morgan and Joe, as much as I could to just let me help out more. And then Abracadavers got funding and we did it for a season and we got a distribution deal. And I really found a lot of joy in film producing just because of how much you are involved. It’s really satisfying. It’s a different feeling to sit in a screening as an actor and then to sit in the screening as the producer, because as a producer you’re involved in every stage of making a film. There was something really fulfilling about that.
And so now me, Morgan, and Joe are Numera Films and we have a couple of things in the works. Right now, we’re pitching a few features. We filmed another web series pilot called Restless Sleep, which is kind of like a web Black Mirror. It’s like a horror anthology where every episode is a different story.
And I am working with a company right now called Thousand Year Films. They’re producing Father of Nations which is a post-apocalyptic film that’s being filmed in the Badlands. They’re doing pickup shots today, as we speak, because they got shut down by COVID.
Screen Grab of Griffin Cork in Father of Nations from Thousand Year Films
JAMES
You were in a one man show and I’m sorry I missed it, but you won an award for best actor for the show from…
GRIFFIN
…Broadway World. That was for Fully Committed by Becky Mode.
JAMES
Tell me about being in a one man show. What type of challenges do you face? How do you work the day? What is that experience like for an actor?
GRIFFIN
I find there’s usually a point in a run of a show say, anywhere from like forty to seventy percent of the way through the run that you feel like you’re in a groove. Not that you can go on autopilot. You still have to connect with your fellow actors, but you can do the show confidently. With Fully Committed I never hit a groove.
Every night, I was unsure if the show was going to go well. But there’s something really exciting about that and my stage manager, Meg Thatcher, was my lifeline. Fully Committed unlike a lot of one-man shows doesn’t interact with the audience at all. No asides. No inner monologues. Nothing. And there’s a lot of tech, and seventy cues that were all phones.
The story follows Sam who works at an expensive restaurant’s booking line. That’s his gig. He’s a failing actor and he’s trying to make a living. So, we slowly discover the plot and meet all these characters through three phones. There’s the main phone line. There’s one phone line that goes directly to the chef. And then there’s a cell phone.
So, throughout the play one of the phones will ring. And sometimes that’s in the middle of me being one of the two characters that I’m talking to and playing on stage. And then this phone rings and I have to remember who’s on the phone. And frankly, there were one or two times where I totally goofed and I picked up the phone and went – “Hello.” And I went with a different accent than the person I’m supposed to be in the play at that moment and thank God for Karen’s improv because I improvised a conversation that kind of revolved around what was happening, and then I put the phone down.
And God bless Meg that phone would ring again, and she’d give me another shot at remembering who that person was supposed to be. I don’t know if stage managers get enough recognition, because they are your scene partner, technically, in a one man show.
Birnton Theatricals Production of Fully Committed by Becky Mode Starring Griffin Cork, Directed by Chris Stockton, Lighting and Design by Kathryn Smith Photo by Chris Stockton
JAMES
Here’s an interesting question for you to ponder. Actors look at human nature. So, in your exploration of human nature what do you think is the fundamental force driving human behaviour?
GRIFFIN
Holy crap, James. Oh, man. Are you asking what I hope drives human nature, or what I actually think drives human nature?
JAMES
I like truth.
GRIFFIN
I think one of the largest driving forces for humanity and human nature right now and the way that people act in today’s world is a sense of identity. And I mean that in the simplest ways in terms of who am I? What values do I have? You know, kind of the more metaphysical questions, but also in the more social questions of how am I seen?
But I think human nature is an ever-growing evolving beast. I know who I was at seventeen is not who I am right now, and I think my understanding of human nature and my understanding of what drives human nature is not the same as it was then. I think everybody would like to say that they know who they are and what their values are, but I think it’s always changing. So, I think what drives human nature is to kind of keep up with the ever-evolving nature of your identity. And I think that is really exciting, and I think it also explains the surge and use of social media.
I use social media as a work tool for marketing and also for acting. When you’re know as an actor, you’re marketing yourself, which I think is a weird phrase, but it’s kind of true. That’s why social media became so popular because it gave people a sense of identity.
It’s like on a very basic level deciding whether you’re a cat person or a dog person so if you’re having a conversation in the group, and the other person goes, “Oh I’m a dog person too” there’s that brief moment where you go, “Oh, you and I are part of something.” So how you’re perceived on social media is not a separate identity but a part of your identity, but for those who don’t know you personally it’s your only identity.
It’s so scary for me to just declare what I think drives human nature because I think I only have such a small sliver of what human nature is. Like I bet you someone who works in literally any other profession will have a totally different answer. But I think because my job is so focused around people and relationships, and sometimes pretending to be other people or adopting the qualities of other people that it requires you to constantly re-examine your own identity.
Lenin’s Embalmers by Vern Thiessen
Broken
But Hark! A Voice! With Thou Art Here Theatre
Concord Floral
D-Day Plus One
John, 316
Calgary Young People’s Theatre Production of Holmes and Watson
JAMES
After playing a role have you ever afterwards adopted a perspective or had a character you’ve played influence your identity?
GRIFFIN
Interesting. (Long Pause) Yeah, kind of. It was a production of All for Love by John Dryden at the University of Alberta. You know the show?
JAMES
No, I don’t.
GRIFFIN
It’s basically just the story of Antony and Cleopatra. It’s not exactly Elizabethan, but it’s still a very classical text. It was directed by Peter Hinton, and I played Ventidius, who was one of Anthony’s lieutenants. And in our adaptation and exploration it was almost like a love triangle between Anthony, Ventidius, and Cleopatra. Ventidius didn’t have any romantic or sexual love for Anthony, but just a profound respect, and I don’t want to say platonic love because it was stronger. It was love and respect and admiration. But even those words aren’t enough. I think it’s something that gets generated by wartime and warfare and all those insane psychological pressures that come with that time. And there was just this phenomenal bond between them. For so long I had a certain way of expressing my love for my male friends and I walked away from that show with a deeper confidence to be vulnerable and honest, when expressing deep admiration and love and respect for a male friend.
All For Love with Sarah Emslie, Helen Belay and Leila Raye-Crofton Production Design by Sofia Lukie, Photo by Ed Ellis
JAMES
So, I noticed there was a Lieutenant Governor of Alberta Award announced a few weeks ago.
GRIFFIN
That’s right.
JAMES
I think they had one hundred and sixty submissions and they picked ten young emerging artists. You being one of the ten. Tell me about winning the award. What was that like? What does that mean to you?
GRIFFIN
It was really, really phenomenal. Since high school or junior high school a lot of my friends are like, “Oh, I can’t wait to get out of Calgary. I can’t wait to get out of Alberta.” And even when I was like thirteen I was like, “I think it’s pretty good here.” And I’m fortunate that my parents made travel an important part of my life, because I’ve been to a lot of places in the world and that’s kind of solidified my love for Alberta. I’ve seen other places and life’s pretty good here. It’s kind of like you don’t know what you have until you don’t have it, right?
It’s also kind of why I haven’t made the move to Toronto or Vancouver. It’s not that I think my life and career would be a lot different if I moved to Toronto or Vancouver, but I find I truly believe in Alberta. I think Alberta has a lot to offer. And I think the way I described it to the Lieutenant Governor is, I think Alberta has for the past ten or fifteen years had this compressed nugget of diamond potential that is going to burst soon. There’s a part of me that just believes it’ll happen, and I really want to be here when it does. And frankly a lot of my friends make fun of me for defending Alberta the way that I do so winning the award was a little Alberta love and a nice high five back.
Griffin Cork 2020 Lieutenant Governor of Alberta Emerging Artist Award
JAMES
So, how old are you now? If you don’t mind my asking. About twenty-five?
GRIFFIN
Twenty-four. Oh my God, I think I’m twenty-four.
JAMES
Okay, I have a question for you. Where are you at forty?
GRIFFIN
At forty. It’s hard to think about. I’d like to get married. I love the idea of marriage. I’d like to have a kid. I don’t know how many. I can’t imagine more than one or two.
JAMES
It’s interesting to me that the first thing you think of is home life. When I asked you where you saw yourself at forty it wasn’t theatre. It wasn’t career first. The first thing that popped into your mind is I would love to be married. I would love to have kids.
GRIFFIN
Well that’s the result of a lot of inner exploration that I’ve been doing since I graduated in terms of what would actually make me happy in life. Like what is it that contributes to your quality of life, because from eighteen to twenty-two I was very business focused. Not that I’m not anymore. I just didn’t make time for anything else. I was just hustling – hustling – hustling – constantly going at it. And I don’t regret it because it benefited me greatly. But I think as I get older, I’ve started to explore what will make me happy.
JAMES
Give you a happy life.
GRIFFIN
Totally. Rather than just a good career. Have a happy and fulfilling life.
JAMES
Have you identified any of those?
GRIFFIN
Man, I want a partner for sure. Absolutely. I can’t imagine going through this life without a partner. I know people that do it. People that never marry or never date. I don’t think I could do it. I think there’s so many cool life experiences that happened to everybody but also different cool life experiences that happened based on the career you chose and where you live and are more special when you share.
One of the first times that I travelled without my parents was when I went with some of my friends and my partner at the time to Australia and New Zealand. And it was euphoric experiencing a part of the world that I’ve never experienced before and having the experience of travelling on my own, but in my own generation with one of the most important people in my life at the time. I think it was that life event that I went, “Oh man, there’s more to life than work.”
JAMES
So where are you going to be at sixty? A grandfather I’m assuming.
GRIFFIN
Definitely a grandfather. Frankly, I don’t see myself, directing, I’ve only ever directed one thing, and it was a music video, and that’s about as far as I’ll go. I don’t think I have the skills or interest in directing. I would love to have a television series at some point in terms of being a character on a full season of a show because that’s four months of filming, and I think that kind of journey would be really interesting. And I love the idea of doing a touring show. I’d like to be teaching, a little bit. One of the most fulfilling experiences of my life, so far, was being a supervisor at ARTSTREK. ARTSTREK is the best. If you’re a drama geek and you go to ARTSTREK there are ninety other drama geeks that you get to hang out with. I really like teaching kids. It’s so much fun.
JAMES
You have a new podcast. The Breakfast Dish. I’m curious. What is The Breakfast Dish and how’s that going?
GRIFFIN
So, my mother had a photo series on Facebook she called The Breakfast Series. It started when she had a meeting at 9:00 a.m. or something and she went okay, “If we’re going to meet at 9:00 a.m. we’re going to go for breakfast.” So, they went out for breakfast and after the meeting was done because breakfast wasn’t over, they just started talking about who they were, as people. Breakfast was conversation. Breakfast was who are you? Breakfast was what are you working on right now? Breakfast was, I’ve never met you let’s go for breakfast. So, then she started this thing called The Breakfast Series, where she wrote a blurb about the person she was having breakfast with and what they’re doing and why she loves them.
And so we pitched a breakfast series to Verb Theatre for their Blue Light Festival. The Blue Light Festival was A Festival of Social Media Performance meant to run entirely online that was announced back in October 2019 long before COVID entered the picture. We called it the Blue Light Breakfast Series and the idea was to interview all of the people in the festival. To find out who they are, and the work that they’re doing, but the work is secondary to us. We just want to know who you are. This is just us hanging out.
And because a lot of theatre is moving online, we wanted to make a good archive of all the socially distant online work that is happening right now within Alberta, but also across the country. So, we got a lot of development through Verb Theatre and then we wrote a grant to the Rozsa Foundation, The Calgary Arts Development Authority, and the Alberta Foundation for the Arts, and they chose to support us.
So, then we started The Breakfast Dish and The Breakfast Dish is for people who are making work online digitally. It is both to assist the artist in terms of the promotion of the work they’re doing because it’s a whole new theatrical marketing landscape that no one really knows how to do, and to help audiences find the work online. And it’s just me and my mom and we made a pact when we started hosting it that it’s just a conversation. We have some ideas of what to talk about but it’s just three or four people chatting about their work, who they are, what their favorite breakfast is, and why they do the work they do.
JAMES
Griffin, because you’re a host and because you have your podcast if you were going to sit down with Griffin Cork and be the interviewer, what would you ask yourself? Is there anything that you would want to bring up and love to talk about?
GRIFFIN
I don’t often get asked about what is the driving force of human nature in today’s world.
JAMES
I get asked that all the time.
GRIFFIN
I’ll bet you do. The thing that I could probably talk to you about ad nauseam is something we touched on earlier.
JAMES
Ah, I think I know what it might be.
GRIFFIN
Guess.
JAMES
Dungeons and Dragons.
GRIFFIN
Yes sir! Just give me one second. (Holds up sheets and notebooks) These are all my character sheets and notebooks, of all the campaigns that I am in currently. Oh boy. It’s the best because it’s just creative storytelling, with your buddies, or your family or random strangers at a gaming store. And especially if you do what my dad does which is the Homebrew, right? Homebrew is the term we use where you make up your own campaign. You don’t use the books. You just make up your own world and your own story. So, you get to make this TV series length saga story every Thursday night with your friends at a table with some chips. I mean you can’t do that right now, but before COVID that’s what you did.
JAMES
You do it in four different locations now. We have Zoom. We have the connectivity. We have the ability to stay in touch. We didn’t have that before.
GRIFFIN
Yeah, and I think Dungeons and Dragons and video games or computer games or anything like that tricks people into exploring their own creativity, even if they think they don’t have any. Even if they think they have no artistic talent or creativity or anything.
Something like Dungeons and Dragons or video games, kind of pulls that out of you. Whether you like it or not. And then you get to see it and view it and experience it. That I think is why I love Dungeons and Dragons. You’re just making stuff up. That’s how you don’t think about your shopping list is you’re trying to figure out the world that’s being presented. I’ve talked about Dungeons and Dragons so much. I could talk your ears off.
JAMES
I have a suggestion for you.
GRIFFIN
Hit me.
JAMES
The driving force of human nature is the desire to play.
GRIFFIN
Oh yeah, that’s a very good suggestion.
JAMES
Because you know we say play around with it see what you come up with. Scientists play around with ideas. We play with things all the time. That’s it. Humans just like to play. There you go. There’s our self-help book. Play it Forward.
GRIFFIN
Perfect.
JAMES
So, we covered a few things.
GRIFFIN
We sure have covered a few things. The only thing that I would toss in is that I forgot to tell you the advice my dad gave me.
JAMES
What advice did you father give you?
GRIFFIN
The only reason I bring it up now is because I think it’s not just a theatre thing. I think it’s a life thing. When I was eighteen I was freaking out about paying for theatre school and doing this career because I’d been told how hard it is and there are so many unknowns, and my dad sat down beside me, and he was quiet for a moment, and then he put his hand on my back and he went, “Do the thing that you want to do until you don’t want to do it anymore. And then find something else to do.” And I stopped freaking out. And of all my mentors that sentence is the best piece of advice I ever got, because you wouldn’t want to be forty and going, “God, I wish at eighteen I’d gone and done what I wanted to do.”
Toni Guffei – Marketing Architect – Ratio Marketing and Reports
“Marketing is both branding and lead generation. When we work with companies it’s more about how are we going to optimize your budget so that you get the best return on your marketing investment. So, part of that is measuring the brand and the perception that people have about you so that they will naturally turn to you as the first Top of Mind company. The other piece of marketing is lead generation. So marketing is about attracting customers. It’s that funnel of attraction – consideration – and decision – so you can convert those leads into sales. So, branding and lead generation tie directly in with the corporate goals of profit.”
Toni Guffei is the owner and founder of Ratio Marketing a boutique marketing and strategy agency that has served hundreds of Canadian and US businesses in a wide range of industries including technology, construction, oil and gas services, environment, arts, education, professional services, hospitality and non-profit.
Ratio Marketing provides its clients with market research, market assessments, competitive assessments, strategic marketing plans, branding strategies, industry profiles and communication tactics and specializes in both traditional and digital marketing methods.
For the last fourteen years Toni has been an instructor at Mount Royal University and is currently an Adjunct Professor who teaches degree courses that include Marketing, Entrepreneurship, Market Research, and Branding. Since 2018 Toni also teaches courses through SAIT‘s Digital Marketing Program which includes corporate certification in Search Engine Optimization, Website Development, Digital Marketing Analytics and Social Media for Business.
I first met Toni back in 2002 when she was working with the Business Development Bank of Canada and the Calgary Chamber of Commerce for Small Business Week. Back then Small Business Week included a large conference that brought together all kinds of Calgary Businesses and a huge awards dinner gala that celebrated and honoured some of the top companies that make Calgary their home. The world has gone through a lot of technological change in the past eighteen years and as businesses learn to navigate a quickly changing world economy marketing has never been more important to their survival. Marketing is one of those things that everyone has to do regardless of whether or not they’re a small business or a big arts organization or an entrepreneur or an established or emerging artist.
I connected with Toni at the start of May on ZOOM in order to maintain a safe social distance and to talk with her about marketing, branding, blogging, social media and to get her thoughts about the current COVID-19 pandemic.
JAMES
You describe yourself as a marketing architect. Why do you use that description?
TONI
I come from a family of builders. My father’s a builder. He came from Italy. My brothers are all builders in one way or another. When people go what is a marketing architect it gives me an opportunity to say we plan and build your business. But at the same time, it has this tie into my family’s profession and building a business is like building a home. You need a foundation and you need walls and you need a roof. You need all these different parts to build a building. The same thing is true about building a business and marketing. Marketing’s not just one thing. Marketing is half science, half art, and part psychology. That’s my Yogi Berra take on it.
The science is the tools. In marketing, there’s a lot of theory but over time things have evolved about how to approach things and make decisions. And that’s the stats, right. We have a lot of stats from which to make decisions. And marketing is also an art because you need to understand the brand and what appeals and colours and messaging and experiences. But the real basis of marketing is the psychology and figuring out what motivates people and what emotions are you trying to tap into that inspires them to do something.
JAMES
How do you access somebody’s psychology to get them to do what you want them to do?
TONI
There’s a tool that we use in the foundations of marketing that is based on Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs. And our most basic needs are safety and security. And then comes love and belonging and self-esteem and at the very peak is self-actualization. And if we just use those as motivators of human behaviour, we can tap into those basic needs.
So, for example, there are a lot of current commercials that are tapping into the emotions about what’s happening in the world right now and instead of promoting their products or services, they’re promoting community and family and values that mean something to people.
That’s what really good brands do. They align their values with the values of their customers, and so their customers will be loyal to them because they see a piece of themselves in the brand and that’s the self-actualization piece. It’s like this company aligns with my values so strongly that I’m going to be loyal to them because they understand me and my deepest needs.
JAMES
What’s your definition of marketing and how does your company, Ratio Marketing, approaches marketing in a general sense?
TONI
Marketing is both branding and lead generation. When we work with companies it’s more about how are we going to optimize your budget so that you get the best return on your marketing investment. So, part of that is measuring the brand and the perception that people have about you so that they will naturally turn to you as the first Top of Mind company. The other piece of marketing is lead generation. So marketing is about attracting customers. It’s that funnel of attraction – consideration – and decision – so you can convert those leads into sales. So, branding and lead generation tie directly in with the corporate goals of profit.
JAMES
So, how much do you think marketing leads the consumer and how much does marketing respond to social and cultural trends?
TONI
Companies need to be agile, especially at this time however the heart of marketing is what the customer wants. It’s not build it and they will come from the movie Field of Dreams. That doesn’t really work unless you just happen to be lucky like ZOOM is right now and you have the right product in the right place at the right time.
When we do projects with a client we do research first. We ask the market either the existing market or the potential market what’s important to them because you can’t give people something they don’t want. You can give them something that they don’t realize they want or need, but if their wants and needs are different than what you’re offering you can’t make them do anything.
JAMES
You know, I’m reminded of one of the clearest examples I ever heard of that is you could create the greatest cheeseburger, and you could create a wonderful advertising campaign where it just looks delicious and it’s at a great price but a vegan will never buy it. You have to know what the consumer wants in order to satisfy that need. And then as you say tie those products and your brand into Maslow’s hierarchy of needs in that person’s life.
Starbucks first U.S. Signing Store in Washington D.C. Partners in the store are all deaf, hard of hearing or able to speak sign language.
TONI
Starbucks is a good example of a business that understands how to hit each one of those emotional needs in someone to motivate them. So, at the lowest levels like security and safety they give rewards. They give you something to make you feel good. Food is a basic need, you know, it falls into that category.
Then they also do stuff related to love and belonging and esteem because they make you feel good because on your birthday after collecting the rewards, they acknowledge you and say, “Hey, Toni, it’s your birthday, you get to buy whatever you want in the whole store.” They make you feel special.
And then at the top level – that self-actualization level – companies are beginning to understand that the way to motivate people at that very deep level is to highly personalize the offering for them. Starbucks does that. Every single coffee is customized to exactly how each customer wants it. So, they understand motivational behaviour in people and they have an ideal loyalty program.
JAMES
Yeah, I guess we’re just gonna have to see if it’s successful or not.
TONI
I hope it works out for them.
JAMES
Hey, I want to talk a little bit about blogging as a tool for marketing and how you feel blogging fits in.
TONI
So, for business, it’s a good tool because it’s a verbal branding piece and it can really contribute to your brand. Ideally, you want to put your blog on your website, because that’s where you want people who are searching for that kind of information to go. And Google likes new and fresh information on your website. So, contributing by way of a blog to your website gives it that fresh rank that Google likes.
But the other thing is – it gives your brand personality because a website is very static. When you’re writing a blog it really brings out the flavour of how you express the brand. Whether it’s a how-to blog or an interview blog it really gives people an emotional feeling about what you have to offer going back to the emotional piece of marketing.
JAMES
What about as an individual then? You mentioned as a company but if you’re an entrepreneur, or an individual consultant how does blogging work as part of your marketing plan?
TONI
Blogging lets you position yourself as a thought leader, or an industry expert or an influencer. So, if I use myself as an example, there’s a hub and spoke strategy to marketing. You want to have a hub where you direct your digital and traditional marketing because then you can measure it.
A website is a great hub because you can use Google Analytics. And you can send people there from social media to check out your website. Or from videos or from newsletters or from traditional media all driving them to that hub.
So, for me, I don’t use my website, I use LinkedIn, because I want to position myself as an industry expert. So, I put my blogs on LinkedIn, and I curate content on LinkedIn. So, I do fresh content, which is my own blog once a month or so and I post other relevant content that’s strictly about marketing strategies. I can occasionally post some other things, but my brand is being a marketing strategy expert and that’s what I want to reinforce. I’ve been doing it consistently for four years now.
So, for two years straight I posted a blog once a month, and one of those blogs got picked up by LinkedIn and they put it in their Pulse Magazine. So now I can’t change it. It’s fixed, like a PDF, but it’s gotten almost 25,000 hits because they pushed it out. So, a blog can be hugely powerful for reaching a broader audience.
And then to establish yourself as a thought leader, whether you want to be speaker, or if you are a writer or playwright, or you want to get your name known or you want to be an influencer, that eventually you might get paid to curate other content to make a living out of it.
Blogs began as a personal mini site, where people used to just record their opinions, stories and other writings as well as photos and videos. And now it’s become part of an overall marketing or brand strategy, whether it’s an individual or a company, and it can be used to drive business.
So, blogs have gone from maybe two or three paragraphs when they started to long-form content of three to four thousand words because Google really loves that depth of information. And ideally you want your blogs to show up in organic searches. And if Google sees that there’s weighty, relevant content, and you’re linking to other sources that builds a sense of online community. And once you get it showing up organically, and people start to follow you and engage with the blog and comment and you get to know your audience better – then you can actually start to leverage some of that into lead generation. Taking it from a branding platform to lead generation by having more calls to action like visit our website for some of our upcoming talks or, check out some of our other blogs and you can start to generate leads or you can monetize it if you want to.
JAMES
Let’s talk a little bit about social media and about online marketing and the various platforms like Facebook and Twitter. And I know we’ve got the Coronavirus right now, but minus that I’m just really interested in looking at social media as a marketing tool.
TONI
Facebook still dominates. It’s not going away. They’ve got Whatsapp. They’ve got Messenger. They’ve got Instagram. If you put an add through Facebook it actually has sixteen different channels that it moves through. They have a wide reach and one-third of the world’s population is on Facebook. The most active demographic is the older demographic and more women.
I should mention 80% of the people on Instagram aren’t even in North America. It’s a worldwide platform. It’s great for visual branding, visual representation. And if you put an ad on Facebook, it automatically can be put through to Instagram. So, it’s a highly powerful marketing tool. And people like the visuals.
Twitter is kind of a niche source. It skews slightly more men. It’s just the facts ma’am. LinkedIn is for professionals and it’s owned by Microsoft. It’s a pretty powerful tool to use as an industry expert.
And then the new kid on the block is TikTok. TikTok’s value is that it appeals to the humour of a 14-year-old boy. So as a brand, it’s been really hard to figure out how to tap into that. But companies are now starting to advertise on TikTok. TikTok is about entertainment. It’s silly fun. So, it’s hard to infiltrate that silly fun level and come across as being professional but like I say brands are finding ways to do it.
JAMES
So, the noise to content ratio on social media is pretty high. How do you cut through that clutter? How do you get the attention of the person you’re trying to reach?
TONI
I think the important thing is not just to use one channel, right? And the risk with all social media is that when you post something as soon as someone else posts something your post falls down. And probably 80% of the people don’t even see your post. So, you need to post frequently. And if you talk to any social media strategist, they’re gonna want you to post many times a day or many times a week. I don’t really believe in that. I think it’s more important to diversify your branding across different digital assets or channels. So, you know, post on Twitter, if that’s where your market is or on a visual platform like Instagram where you can have a lot of filters and you can do a lot of things to really make your post pop and stand out.
JAMES
I guess companies are really becoming responsible for the creation of their own content. What advice would you have for a company about creating content?
TONI
I think it’s important to know what you’re doing, too, because you can drive it off brand, right? Even accidentally. But I always say that even if you hire someone or a company to manage your marketing, you still need to have the people within the company providing that content because they know the company best. So, somebody from the company should be there managing it or contributing it to it anyways.
JAMES
Do you have an example of a company you’ve worked with that has had a particularly effective marketing campaign?
TONI
I’m working with Ravenwood Developers. They’re a home builder and they wanted to tap into the energy-efficient high-performance homes market. They build Custom Homes. Beautiful homes. But they wanted to move into this niche for the 35 to 50-year-old homeowner who would like a green home. It’s not about the money. It’s about what they want to contribute to the betterment of our earth and for their children and a legacy.
So, we created a campaign which was quite successful. We created a landing page on their website that performed really well in terms of gathering contact information and we used social media to drive them there. So, we identified the market and who they were and what their values were. So, we can niche the market quite well with social media because a lot of them are on Facebook and we used Facebook and Instagram to highly target them because you can filter out who can see your ads. And we drove them to the website, and we tested different visuals.
You know to find out what worked, what didn’t work, what messages worked. Was it heartfelt? Was it more about the money? And so we optimized it to the point where a lot of people were clicking on it, and they really liked the landing pages that were more heartfelt. You know your home is where your family gathers and going back to Maslow’s hierarchy of needs of love and belonging and deep values that people have around their home we were able to optimize it and now we’re running campaign after campaign based on that concept, and it’s working really well.
JAMES
So, when planning, marketing, you know, there’s the immediate short term and there’s long term things to consider. What are some of the things you need to look at in terms of your short-term marketing plan and your long-term marketing plan? How do those go together?
TONI
So, the long term would be building your brand, building your perception, and that’s consistency through multiple channels, over a long period of time. So, consistency means regular postings, regular updates to your website, regular visuals and messaging, whatever you’re doing on a regular basis to indicate that you’re there. And then multiple channels that are integrated. It shouldn’t just be one channel. Most people aren’t just on one social media, or watch just one TV station, or listen to just one radio station. And then you have to give it some time to work. So that’s the long term.
The short term is generating those leads and driving traffic to your hub and helping them to make decisions. So, part of that decision-making process is giving them an opportunity to get more information about you. So, capturing their names so you can sign them up for a newsletter or send them more relevant content. Not sales content, because all you’re trying to do is align their values with yours so that they come to a point where they will buy something.
JAMES
This is May 1st 2020 and the Coronavirus is causing a huge worldwide impact. So, let’s talk about that a little bit because it makes sense since we’re in the middle of it and everything we’re going to say here is going to be from the context that we’re talking about this on May 1st. So, what are you seeing the impact of Coronavirus on businesses and their marketing?
TONI
I’m personally writing a blog about it. It’s the Ps of Pandemic because you know, it’s kind of a play on marketing. Marketing is the four Ps. Product, price, place and promotion. Well, the pandemic has caused companies to either protect, promote or pivot themselves in terms of marketing.
So, protecting is cutting back. Slashing costs. They’re just holding tight to protect their assets but they should still be doing branding and posting. The other option is to promote. Some companies are still going full steam ahead. They’re still doing marketing because they’re either a grocery store, for example, or they’re a valued service. So, they still need to do some promotion. And then the pivot is where some companies have done a complete U-turn and they need marketing because it’s just like repositioning yourself. They have to rebrand and come up with what does that look like? And that’s hard to do quickly. We’ve only been in this six weeks or so but companies like Minhaus Brewery that started producing hand sanitizer did a quick pivot. Mind you they’re not pivoting for the long term. But a company where the old business is never going to work again needs to pivot during this time and they need to get on the rebranding as soon as possible in order to capitalize on it.
JAMES
So, Toni, we’ve talked a lot about marketing but I’m wondering do you have a personal formula for success? Something that works for you?
TONI
Hard work and resilience. I just keep working at it. I don’t think there’s any other way of being successful. And failure is just one more step closer to success because it’s only through failure that you actually learn how to optimize and become successful.
Producer/Director Matt Boda – Absurd Hero Productions
“Where preparation and opportunity meet is what makes luck seem so magical. I think if you prepare yourself for an opportunity, such as selling a movie script, then you can attract that scenario by actively working toward making yourself prepared and making it not so much about luck anymore and making it more about fate.”
***
Producer/Director Matthew Boda has ambitions of taking his company, Absurd Hero Productions, into the big leagues and producing film and television across multiple genres. I connected with Matt through the Austin Film Festival where my comedy Masquerade had been a finalist in the playwriting category in 2018. After chatting with Matt about that script we got to talking about his love of film and television and I was immediately impressed by his boundless energy and enthusiasm for telling stories and so we set up a time to continue our conversation. I connected with Matt over ZOOM at the start of May to find out more about his personal vision for Absurd Hero Productions and his plan to bring new stories and screenwriters into production through his Get It Made X initiative.
JAMES HUTCHISON
Tell me a little bit about your logo for Absurd Hero productions. What does it mean and what does it symbolizes?
MATT BODA
It’s from the myth of Sisyphus. Sisyphus is, you know, a Greek character being punished forever and eternally having to push a boulder up the side of a mountain only to achieve the task and then have the boulder roll back down the mountain and he has to do it all again. Over and over and over. And it becomes an absurd task. There’s no meaning. There’s no reason to push the boulder up the mountain. There is no benefit, but he does it anyway.
It’s also a super hard thing to do. To push that boulder up a mountain every single day. So, it takes a hero’s spirit to be able to accomplish the task and do it anyway, in spite of its meaninglessness.
And essentially, Albert Camus who is an existential philosopher wrote his own version of the myth of Sisyphus and likened the absurd hero to modern man. Life inherently has no meaning except for the meaning that we give it.
So, knowing all that philosophy I went out to do one of the most difficult things that there is, and that’s to create a production company from zero not knowing anyone. Not having any direct contacts. Not coming from money. To do an absurd task. To try and become a filmmaker and make a production company and be involved at the highest level of making content that lasts forever and that’s super beneficial to the people that watch it and it felt right to me to do it under the brand name of an Absurd Hero.
JAMES
I have a quote for you by filmmaker Ted Kotcheff. He directed The Apprenticeship of Duddy Kravitz which featured Richard Dreyfuss, First Blood with Sylvester Stalone, Weekend at Bernie’s, a lot of different films and he’s done a lot of television. He said, “Everything about filmmaking tries to distract you from that first, fine, rapturous vision, you have of the film.” I’m wondering how much you agree with that, and how do you keep that spark alive to make you see a film through from idea to screen?
MATT
Well, I agree with it completely because essentially what happens is the vision comes into the mind of the creator. Whatever way you believe it gets there – whether it’s a muse, or it’s God, or its creative energy, or whatever – something inspires the idea in the first place.
For me, it comes in a flash. I have a vision. I see the whole movie in a moment in my mind’s eye, and it fills me with the desire and motivation to do the work to pull that out of my mind, and put it into the real world, and see what it will look like.
So, saying that everything after that is designed to get in the way of the original vision is completely true, because you have to compromise with the reality of what you can create and your fantasy of what you had envisioned.
So, it’s like, “Okay I guess I can’t have him on top of the Titanic.” “Well, what if he’s in a little rowboat on the side of a dock on a lake?” “Okay, well does it embody the same theme that you were trying to express for the character on the deck of the Titanic?” “Yeah, it actually does.” “Okay then, let’s put him in the skiff.” “Cool. Problem solved.” That’s the compromise between fantasy and reality that any filmmaker has to go through in order to see their vision go from inception to completion.
JAMES
One of the projects you have in development is called The Container. Where did the idea come from for that project, and how did that develop, particularly in light of the times we’re living in, and how current and significant the subject matter is.
MATT
That project is making its rounds. I’m super proud of it. It scored really well on the Blacklist. Everyone that reads it gives it their praise, and I’m super grateful for that.
That idea came in a flash from my mind’s eye and that’s usually born from needing to find a solution to a problem. In the beginning when I first started making films my ideas were visions about myself and my own life experiences, and so I started to make art about my life experiences, and I wasn’t getting the kind of response that I wanted to have with the work. It was too personal.
It was me all over everything. Me the director. Me the producer. Me the actor. It felt like a one-man-band in a way that alienates the audience. It makes them feel like they can’t identify with the story because all they see is you trying to work out your own problems on the screen. And I had fallen into that trap a couple of times because I had run with someone telling me to “write what you know.” Which for me was a mistake, because it made me dive into this selfish realm that a lot of people get into where they think they need to show that they can do everything, as opposed to embodying the true spirit of filmmaking which is completely collaborative.
So, I was stressed out after a big movie that I had personally financed called Blood Sweat and Years, that even though it was shot well and had great music, just fell flat, and I was in need of a new idea. And I was actually in line to go to a movie in the middle of the day and my mind was hijacked, and what I saw was a little girl looking through a crack in a shipping container at the waves and the ocean and when she looked back into the container I saw all these people. They were all Chinese people and they were stuck in the shipping container, and I saw this whole movie in my head and it all ended in this terrible tragedy, and this little girl was the only one who lived to tell about it. In my mind’s eye that’s what I saw. So I immediately went home, and I found out through a little research – and thank God for Google you can go directly to the source – I started finding out that it was true. That before China became the giant manufacturing mogul it is now Chinese people used to flee the country because there were no opportunities in China, and they used to do it via shipping containers coming through ports in America like Long Beach. And I read all these articles, so I started to formulate it around China, and then I realized that all that stuff was actually twenty years old. So, I shifted and I did a bunch of research and I created this framework that took this really neutral approach to writing the movie, that’s about a group of North African migrants stuck in a shipping container.
It’s eighty-eight pages long, and it’s like a thrill ride that ends with a wallop. It punches you in the gut. It’s a humanitarian film in the same vein of Cary Fukunaga’s film Beasts of No Nation on Netflix or Hotel Rwanda. That’s how The Container came to be.
JAMES
But it would not have existed, I think, unless you had worked, originally on Blood Sweat and Years, because the creative journey of that film involves you doing the previous film and learning from it. So, now how much do you draw upon your personal life? How do you balance that mix of taking from your past experiences to tell a story that isn’t necessarily about you individually, but might reflect some of the themes, feelings, ideas, and experiences you’ve been through?
MATT
It’s really simple. Now, I imagine being someone else. Just like an actor. I imagine what I would do in that person’s situation, but I let them do it just like the actor lets the character do it. So you know, let’s say I was from Eritrea, and I was living on a thousand calories a day, and I had scrounged up every cent I had to try and escape, and I just think what would I do in that situation, but I don’t imagine my face as the person accomplishing it. I imagined the face of a little girl, or the gentleman, you know, that needed something that I’ve never needed in my life but if I did, how would I go about doing it. I put other faces on it and that removes me from the equation so it’s not a self-centred approach. It’s universal.
JAMES
A film from twenty or forty years ago reflects the time they were born in, and yet some films even though they might have been made fifty or sixty years ago, still feel like they have a universal appeal or a universal story. What do you think it is in great films that makes some of them feel timeless?
MATT
It’s definitely making the audience identify with a core theme of the story. So, for instance, in The Container, it poses the question, “As you sit there and complain about what you’re going to eat tonight and how fast your internet is – imagine this: “What would you do if you were in this container and you’d paid a thousand bucks that took you eight months to save and you had your daughter with you and this was your last chance to get out of the country. You know, the country that made your life a living hell. What would you do if you were someone else?” And it takes the audience out of who they are and it makes them reflect on what they have. So, the audience has to identify in a very personal way with what’s happening in your subject matter and what’s happening in your concept, or it’s going to be forgettable.
JAMES
With film you’ve got two hours. In series television like Game of Thrones you have seventy hours. I think the difference in the amount of storytime you have means that film has to be much more concentrated. Much more to the point. Do you think films work best when they have a single protagonist that you’re seeing the story through?
MATT
I think they’re two different mediums that both approach story in a different way. For film, it’s much more focused. It’s like, “What do you want the audience to get out of this one movie, because they’re only going to watch it that one time and then it’s over and the world your telling begins and ends in that movie?”
Whereas the purpose of a TV show is for people to fall in love with the actors, and they get plot and structure and story through the whole thing but the most rewarding part is being fed this story that feels so real in this episodic way so you can spend so much more time with a character, as opposed to learning a theme.
You know, films to me are themes. Like Fight Club has all these themes you can dissect forever whereas in Game of Thrones I love Tyrian, and I love Sansa. They’re like my sister and my uncle and you know they’re my family because I went through all this hardship with them, and I know what they went through. I know their story and their stories are just like me knowing my best friend’s story who you know maybe he was a drug addict and his dad died. The thing about the episodic story is you love the person, whereas in a film you love the idea and you love the people that are expressing that idea.
Matt on set – Absurd Hero Productions
JAMES
Right, well let’s talk about ideas. What kind of ideas do you enjoy exploring what kinds of stories attract your creative energy?
MATT
Well, you know, nowadays, I’ve just been super focused on executive producer roles where I champion multiple projects. So, I’ve got all these fires burning now and I created this program, Get it Made X, which is essentially a union for non-union writers.
So, any writer that’s accepted to the program comes into the fold with all the rest of our members, and they all compete for funds that we put into the program as well as they pay membership dues. So, all of that all gets put into a pot. And they compete to make proof of concept films with that money and we make multiple projects so right now I have five of them.
And I can talk about each one of those projects the same way that I talk about The Container. Because what we do is reverse engineer long-form materials. So, if somebody has a script they love and its scoring well in the screenplay world what we do is have them write a five-page version. Maybe the most pivotal scene that really showcases what the world of the film or the show or whatever it is would be about. And we go that extra mile because I have a production company. I own all the cameras. I have 5000 square feet of office space and everything you’ll need as well as all of the contacts and the relationships and the infrastructure because I’m in Los Angeles and I’ve been doing this for twelve years.
So, we go right to the source and make these films and then we put these packages together with known entities and then we go to the studios. Because I have contacts at the studios, but they won’t read words on a page from an unknown writer. They just won’t do it. But what they will do is watch a five-minute film that’s well produced.
So, I’m like, “Hey what are you guys looking for?” “Oh, we’re always looking for easy horror stuff.” ” Okay, well I’ve got this thing about a demon baby and a crazy girl next door concept.” “Ok, send me the demon baby thing.” Boom, I text him a link that goes to a proof of concept movie, and he watches it and at the end he goes, “Hey, do you have the full script?” And then we send the book and the full script and all the people that are attached to the project. “Oh, you got the guy from Weeds as the main actor. Or, “Oh you got the guy from Brooklyn Nine Nine to direct it.” Now all the studio has to do is inject funds into a group of artists that are already mobilized, and a product will emerge. That’s what we’ve been doing now, and it’s just awesome.
JAMES
So, what then is your vision for Absurd Hero Productions in the future? What is your goal.
MATT
What I imagined us to be is like Bad Robot. Bad Robot makes film and television shows across all genres. And if I have the right number of members in Get It Made X, I’ll be able to turn out twelve films across all genres, a year. So, my vault will be full – just filled to the brim with ideas that are packaged on paper and have known talent that have said that they will be a part of the project.
JAMES
Getting a film made is a tough business, so I was wondering how much do you think luck plays a part in a person’s success?
MATT
Where preparation and opportunity meet is what makes luck seem so magical. I think if you prepare yourself for an opportunity, such as selling a movie script, then you can attract that scenario by actively working toward making yourself prepared and making it not so much about luck anymore and making it more about fate.
JAMES
You’re prepared to take advantage of the opportunities when they present themselves.
MATT
And luck is opportunity in disguise. You know what I’m saying? If you’re prepared for the opportunity and you get it, it’s going to feel like luck, but no it wasn’t really luck it’s because you were ready to take on that opportunity.
Matt – Early Days in LA
JAMES
You said you’ve been doing this for 12 years in LA. What brought you to LA? How did you get there?
MATT
I lived in Florida, and I started in Miami. I was in a rock band until I was 25 and I got way too caught up in that scene in terms of just all it has to offer in terms of sex, drugs and rock’n’roll.
So, I had to rebuild my belief system mentally from the ground up about what I expected out of life and what my life was going to be now that the rock band was over. I made a lot of decisions in terms of, you know, not allowing chemical dependency to become this everyday thing in my life. I had to shed that whole older beginning of being in a rock band, and of being rebellious, and being the lead singer, and being the center of attention.
And that’s how I ended up in LA when I was 25. You know, new brain power and new motivation, and that’s when I started from the ground up. And I rode a bike. I didn’t have a car. I rode a bike and went to any film place, and I literally said I’d work for free for a week to show you guys who I am and my attitude and to see if you guys want to hire me.
And it was no, no, no, no and then a lighting rental house said yes, and they hired me, and I learned lighting, and I met people. I got into the union for camera and lighting, and I spent the next eight years working on movies and television and being a lighting technician, and I did camera a bunch too.
JAMES
But I think the first 25 years of your life has been really informative for you in terms of your journey and who you have become.
MATT
Yeah, I just wish I didn’t waste so much time. You know what I’m saying. You can get off the elevator at any floor. For me, I decided to go to the sub-basement for some reason.
JAMES
How important is forgiving yourself for those years to having a more positive and better future now?
MATT
As an artist, you know, having internal conflicts is the reason why I feel I need to have a voice. I feel like the only way to dissipate these internal pressures for me is through art.
Matt on Set – Absurd Hero Productions
JAMES
What filmmakers and films do you find inspiring? Who speaks to you? Who do you get excited about?
MATT
I collect 11 x 17 movie and TV posters. Right now I’m looking at posters for Game of Thrones, The Tudors, Neon Genesis which is an anime from Japan, Silver Linings Playbook by David O. Russell, Cary Fukunaga – Beasts of No Nation all the way to stuff like Blue is the Warmest Colour, which is a crazy indie that came out of France.
But my favourite stuff is historical fiction. Like The Last Kingdom which is about the Danish coming over to England when England was multiple nations in the eighth and ninth century during the reign of King Alfred the Great. And I’ve watched that series, like three times and it’s got four seasons now and I’ve watched each season three full times and they’re ten hours each. Same thing with Game of Thrones, you know, every single night I’m watching a piece of something, you know, all the way to shows like Billions, or Homelands.
JAMES
So, having lived a different life when you were younger and being your age now what would you say to your younger self? What sort of advice would you give to your younger self?
MATT
You know pain is inevitable, but suffering is optional. I took the crazy route and then wallowed in my suffering so a lot of my joy was robbed from me.
I guess I would just say, “Just go easy on yourself. Don’t beat yourself up so much. You know, dude just keep going. Who cares? Does it really matter that much? Just try and don’t give up, because if you give up – it’s definitely not gonna happen.”
The worst part is that for the vast majority it never happens for them. They write three or four scripts and then they don’t write any more. And that’s it. It’s done. They’ve written a bunch of scripts that maybe placed in a few contests, but they never got made. But Get It Made X is going to be a way for people that are in the non-union realm to compete with everybody that’s in the union realm without having to wait to win the lottery – so to speak – and we want to do that for as many people as possible.
“When you sit down as a playwright and you start to think about a character that’s going to inhabit your world, that’s a piece of coal. Until you put that piece of coal under pressure, you’re not going to reveal all of its facets. So, characters have to be put under pressure. And that’s where you as a writer, and your audience is going to discover all of the facets of that character. And you’re going to turn that piece of coal into a diamond. With facets that shine and shape and inform. It’s pressure. But the pressure can be lost if the writer gives it too much time.”
Trevor Rueger has been an actor, director, writer and dramaturge for over 30 years. In 2011 he received the Betty Mitchell Award for Outstanding Performance by an Actor in a Supporting Role for his performance as Billy Bibbit in Theatre Calgary/Manitoba Theatre Centre’s production of One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest. As an actor, he’s been seen at Theatre Calgary, Lunchbox Theatre, Sage Theatre, Vertigo Theatre, Stage West, and the Garry Theatre.
His directing credits include When Girls Collide, Columbo: Prescription Murder and Columbo Takes the Rap for Vertigo Theatre, Ai Yah! Sweet and Sour Secrets, Life After Hockey and The Complete Works of William Shakespeare (Abridged) for Lunchbox Theatre, Heroes for Sage Theatre, SHE and Matadora for Trepan Theatre, Medea and 33 Swoons for Rocky Mountain College and Courage for Lost Boy Productions
For 20 years he was an ensemble member and writer for Shadow Productions. Trevor was also an original ensemble member of Dirty Laundry which is a weekly improvised soap opera and for 10 years he was chair, writer, and producer of the Betty Mitchell Awards which recognizes excellence in Calgary Theatre.
I’ve worked with Trevor several times over the last decade as a dramaturge and I’ve always found his feedback on my plays to be insightful and constructive. He asks the right questions. Questions that make me think about my story and characters in a manner that results in a better draft.
I sat down with Trevor at Alberta Playwrights Network where he’s been the executive director for the past eleven years to talk with him about his career and his approach to acting, directing, and working with playwrights. Our interview took place in late January, a few months before the current pandemic and lockdown, and so the impacts of COVID-19 on the Canadian Theatre Community were not a part of our conversation.
JAMES HUTCHISON
I’m curious, how did you get interested in theatre and what were some of those early experiences and influences?
TREVOR RUEGER
I didn’t get involved in theatre until high school. I come from a family that was certainly not against the arts. We as kids were just allowed to find our own way. So, when I was a kid, for me, it was sports for the most part.
I was a middle child with six years difference between me and my younger sibling out on an acreage where the nearest neighbour, who was five years older than me, was two miles away. So, I spent a lot of time by myself inventing games and inventing sports and I was quite imaginative and creative, and I was a bit of a gregarious kid as my mother would state.
So, in high school, my mom said, “Well, you should probably take a drama class because you’re such a ham.” And I said, “Okay.” So, I did.
And on the first day of the drama class, it was announced that auditions for the school play were happening that afternoon, and so I signed up for an audition. The play was called Present Tense and it’s a fun little play about a kid in the 50s who’s having trouble with his girlfriend and he imagines that his girlfriend is having all of these wild and crazy love affairs with everyone but him. So, I auditioned for the play and the next day I was cast as the lead in the show.
JAMES
Had you not been cast, who knows?
TREVOR
Oh, exactly. Absolutely. And so, I took drama and played sports all the way through high school. And there was a bit of a pull between my basketball coach and my drama teacher as to which I should focus on. And when I was in grade 12, there were some conflicts between my basketball schedule and my drama schedule and suddenly my schedule all worked out, because unbeknownst to me until I found out many years later, my basketball coach and my drama teacher had gone behind my back and negotiated my schedule.
High School Years
JAMES
Oh, that’s cool. So, then you went off to the University of Calgary to pursue a degree?
TREVOR
I didn’t start out pursuing a degree in theatre. I did one year of General Studies and then I was going to go off into the Education Department where I was going to become a math teacher. But I took drama 200, which was the introductory acting class with Grant Reddick. Halfway through the course you get your grade, and you have a little meeting with the instructor.
So, I go into Grant’s office and sit down and Grant says, “The work is really coming along and you’re really doing well and here’s your grade. How are you doing in your other drama courses?” And I said, “I’m not taking any other drama courses, I’m actually, in General Studies and going into the Education Department.” He went, “Oh, no.” And I said, “What do you mean?” He went, “You should probably take the other drama classes.” And I went, “Okay.”
So, I went home and had a challenging conversation with the parents about switching my major and going into the drama department.
JAMES
How did you approach that? I mean, you said they were pretty open but a number of years ago there was more of a thought that you picked a career and stuck with it. You didn’t have options. Now days people will have four or five careers.
TREVOR
That was certainly their major concern. This does not seem like a career choice. This does not seem like something you can make a living at. This sounds like something, that while it may satisfy you in one way, is going to be incredibly challenging. And so, they’re really looking out for me, right?
JAMES
As parents do.
TREVOR
Yeah, absolutely. It was a difficult conversation. It was three or four years later that I finally realized they were acting out of love and protection and wanted the best for me. But I kind of had them over a barrel because they had made a promise to all of their kids that if you went to university or college they would pay for it. So, I threw the gauntlet down and said, “That’s fine. I am out of here and you’re really reneging on your promise.” So, there was some negotiation and my dad kept pushing me to do a fallback degree afterward. But oddly enough, all the way through my university I was working professionally as an actor. I was studying during the day and doing shows at night.
JAMES
What kind of shows?
TREVOR
I got my first paycheck from Stephen Hair for doing a straight play called Cards on the Table by Agatha Christie at Pleiades Theatre back in that time. I think I played a police officer who had six lines.
Pleiades Mystery Theatre – Cards on the Table by Agatha Christie
JAMES
So, you’re in university and right away you get taken in by the Calgary theatre community. How do you think that helped you build your career here in the city?
TREVOR
I have to take a step back slightly because I already knew a lot about the Calgary theatre community before university because my high school drama teacher Kathryn Kerbes was a professional actor and did some shows while she was a teacher. And her husband Hal Kerbes was quite well connected and a fantastic artist and actor, singer, and costumer. He did it all. In fact, our high school drama class was thrown a party by Hal and Kathryn Kerbes at their home after we graduated where they invited all of their theatre friends over. And so, at that point, I was already quite well immersed and I already knew a few of the people who were part of the cast of my first Pleiades show.
JAMES
So, how do you approach a character? How do you get into the mind of the person you’re going to be? The character you’ll be portraying.
TREVOR
I start big. I start with a big wide canvas. And then I bring the lens into smaller and smaller and smaller details. The first thing I look at is the narrative journey and arc of the character. And then figuring out within that arc what the character wants. That to me is the fundamental question approaching any material. What does the character want? Then once I discovered that I ask how does the character fit into the story? Then I start to look at the text. What does my character say? What does my character say about myself? What do other characters say about my character?
And then I start to develop a physical vocabulary that comes from the world around me and the world that we’re creating in the rehearsal hall and then ultimately on stage. If I’m in a family drama one of my tricks is to look at my relatives and steal their moves. I’ll decide within the family structure who is the most influential on my character, and then I’ll pick up their mannerisms.
So, for instance, I was playing Happy in a production of Death of a Salesman at the Garry Theatre directed by Sharon Pollock. And I just watched the physical mannerisms of the actor who was playing Willie, and the actor playing my older brother Biff and it wasn’t mimicry, but I just went, with a similar physical vocabulary.
JAMES
Any particularly fond memories of a role that you really enjoyed working through and capturing,
TREVOR
I’ve enjoyed a lot of the work I’ve done but the work I did as a young actor with Sharon Pollock at the Garry Theatre was really great stuff to be able to cut my teeth on. The Garry Theatre was a pretty amazing experience because I was directed by her in roles that I would never have had an opportunity to even audition for at other theatres in Calgary or across the country. I played Alan Strang in Equus, I played Happy in Death of a Salesman and I played two or three characters in a production of St. Joan. But I was so green. I was absorbing the work without actually being able to articulate what I was doing.
Cast from the 2016 Stage West Calgary Production of Suite Surrender by Michael McKeever
JAMES
What was it like for your family to come and see you on stage?
TREVOR
They were always supportive, and they came to see as much of the stuff that I was in as they could. And my dad was quite gregarious as well and spent a fair amount of time telling stories in various pubs in and around Forest Lawn, and I would go and meet him every once in a while in the afternoon for a beer after class. And going through university my dad was always, “ You know you could get your education degree.” And in year two it was, “You could get a real estate license.” Year three it was, “You know, you could probably turn these drama skills into sales. I know a guy who owns a car dealership. You could sell cars on weekends. Or you could always learn to be a backhoe operator.” So, he was always just going, “Get something else to fall back on. It doesn’t have to be another four-year degree.” And my dad would introduce me when friends would come over to the table as this is my son he’s going to university. Well, finally there was that day my dad introduced me to one of his pals who’d never met me before as, “My son. He’s an actor.” I went alright.
Realizing the divas are about to discover they’ve been roomed together, assistant Mr. Pippet jumps into the arms of hotel GM Mr. Dunlap
JAMES
So, tell me about what attracts you to directing and what type of shows are you attracted to?
TREVOR
Here’s the thing that I discovered which leads me very well into the world of being a dramaturge. It’s not that I dislike the performance aspect of being an actor. I quite enjoy it. I love putting on the costume. I love walking out in front of an audience. I love hearing them react and knowing that you’ve had an effect on them in some way. But when you get into the run of a show, it’s the law of diminishing returns. So, what I discovered when I started directing, which has led me into dramaturgy, is I love making big discoveries. And that’s the rehearsal hall. It’s the same way as I was just discussing how I approach a character right. Starting with this big broad canvas. So those big discoveries. What is this world that we’re going to create? Who are the people who inhabit this world? How do they connect to each other? What are we telling an audience? What are we showing? What are they seeing? All tied back to, we’re supporting the work of the playwright.
The 2010 Theatre Calgary Production of One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest by Dale Wasserman. Based on the novel by Ken Kesey. Directed by Miles Potter.
JAMES
How did you end up getting involved in dramaturgy?
TREVOR
It was working with Sharon Pollock. It really was. It changed the notion of how I look at work and how I look at plays. And at that point, I had no idea what dramaturgy was, but she looks at work as a director, as a writer, as an actor, and with such a writer’s eye, and with such dramaturgical care for the work that it made me read differently.
Again, we were doing Death of a Salesman and in our first read through the actor, playing Willy Loman made a choice with a line delivery on about page eight or nine. And it was our first read-through and Sharon stopped there and went, “That’s a very interesting choice that you’re making. I just want to warn you, let’s not get trapped into that yet because while you do say that and that could be the emotional content of what you’re saying here – forty pages from now you say this.” And I thought – how is she on page eight, and on page forty at the same time, and it was because she had a concept or saw the whole. And it made me start to look at work differently. As an actor to look at work differently. As a director. And then realizing a few years later, oh, that’s dramaturgy. That’s dramaturgy – defending the work of the playwright and seeing the big idea within that world.
Directed by Trevor Rueger
JAMES
I find it takes a couple of reads to understand the connection between page eight and page forty because on a first read you don’t always see the connection between the two.
TREVOR
Absolutely. Though, as a dramaturg it’s not that I don’t give work multiple readings before actually crafting a response to a playwright but I generally make my notes on the first reading because for me – what the playwright has asked me to do as the dramaturge is to be their very first audience. And an audience is only going to see a work once. So, I approach it with that mindset. So, I will read it and make my big notes and observations. Then usually upon a second or third reading, I start to be able to see, “Oh, hang on, my bad. I misread that. Oh, I see, that connects to that.” Or, “Mmmm, it seems to be that the idea is shifting or has shifted or wants to shift.”
JAMES
This is why I think it’s very important not to share the work too soon. Because if you share it too soon you can never get that first reader back. Although to help make it fresh again one of the things I find useful is to put the work back into the drawer for six months.
TREVOR
Absolutely. So much of my practice, as a director has touched on that kind of notion. I feel that within the Canadian theatre system, we do not have enough time to rehearse nor do we have enough time to let the work germinate for the artists because of the commercial aspect of things, right, that you have to create a new product virtually monthly or bimonthly. Rehearsal periods are truncated and the work just gets rushed to the stage. So, for me as a director wherever possible I do five-hour days with my cast instead of an eight-hour rehearsal day. We’ll do eight hours for the first couple of days and then we’ll shift as soon as possible to a five-hour day.
JAMES
What do you find the shorter hours do for them?
TREVOR
They come back the next day fresh. They’re still working eight hours. They’re not doing eleven and twelve-hour days. So, they’re actually doing eight hours of work but you only have access to them for five. And that creates within the rehearsal hall a demand to be focused. People come in fresh and you can usually start those final days of rehearsal at noon. So it’s like 12 to 5. So, you come in fresh because you’ve had a morning. You’ve had an evening. You’ve had an opportunity to do some work. You’ve had an opportunity to think about the work. You’ve had an opportunity to reflect on notes. As opposed to coming home at the end of an eight hour day throwing some food in your face, trying to learn your lines, getting up the next morning and taking a look at the work you’re going to be doing the next day. It’s all so exhausting. It’s also exhausting for a director and a stage manager.
Jamie Matchullis as Jennifer, Chantelle Han as Lilly, Ben Wong as Charlie, and Kelsey Verzotti as Jade in the Lunchbox Theatre production of Ai Yah! Sweet and Sour Secrets by Dale Lee Kwong. Directed by Trevor Rueger – Photograph by Benjamin Laird
JAMES
So, tell me about APN.
TREVOR
The Alberta Playwrights Network is a membership-driven organization devoted to supporting, developing, and nurturing the work and the playwright through education, advocacy, outreach, and any other resource or technology that we can provide our membership.
JAMES
You’ve been running APN for eleven years. Where do you think you were as an organization when you started and where do you think you are now?
TREVOR
APN, as I’ve always known it, was a healthy, vibrant, energized organization. And the organization that I inherited, certainly was that. Strong membership base. Pretty interesting programming that people were taking advantage of. But over the last eleven years, the biggest thing that I’ve seen shift and change and alter is the theatrical landscape.
When I came into the organization Canada Council had just paid for a research paper to be written by Ben Henderson who was with Saskatchewan Playwrights Centre and Martin Kinch who was with Playwrights Theatre Center in Vancouver. Both organizations very much like APN. They wrote a paper called From Creation to Production that talked about the new play development model, as it existed in Canada, and as it existed in the UK and in some parts of the United States. And at that time, it was a pretty standard that a play gets selected for a workshop. A play gets developed. A play gets produced. Or a playwright gets developed and produced.
There were a lot of ideas in there that I looked at and I read. “Okay, is APN doing this? Yeah, we seem to be doing that. All right. That seems to be successful. We seem to be doing this. That seems okay. We don’t seem to be doing this. I don’t know if our organization could ever do this.”
So, I enacted a five-year plan at that point which focused on playwright advocacy and doing more work and providing greater agency for our members by getting their plays into the hands of people that might produce them. So, through that came a number of things including the catalogue which featured plays ready for production by our members. Fast forward ten years later, that paper, From Creation to Production, is completely out of date.
JAMES
It’s now a historic document.
TREVOR
Yeah, absolutely. And so that’s why APN with funding from the Canada Council is currently engaging in this national research project, to discover – who we are and where we are as a nation – and as producers and creators and playwrights and theatre companies – and trying to figure out what the landscape is as it pertains to new play development, new play creation, new play curation and to find out what we can do.
Mike Czuba, Kira Bradley, Melanie Murray Hunt, and Trevor Rueger workshopping new work with APN
JAMES
Well considering where we are right now can you talk a little bit about diversity and inclusion as an organization.
TREVOR
Three years ago, at a board retreat, one of our board members brought up as a point of discussion that we don’t seem to be doing a lot of work in the realm of diversity which lead to a really great conversation that we had never had as an organization. Because our organization has always been open, and available, to anyone and everyone.
JAMES
If you’re a playwright, call us.
TREVOR
If you’re a playwright, call us. We don’t discriminate based on age, race, country of origin, religious background, sexuality, or sexual identity. None of that has ever been a part of our membership process. And we’ve never asked those questions, nor did we ever care to. So that led us to the discovery that while that may be our internal belief that may not be our external perception.
And as we’ve done some surveys and spoken to diverse theatre creators about this what we discovered is not that the outside perception was necessarily wrong, but that the outside perception was different from our internal belief. We believed that we were an open door for everyone, but what we discovered is we have to take that door out to people and let them know that we exist and that we have this belief?
JAMES
It’s not enough to just have the door open.
TREVOR
Exactly. So, we’ve held a couple of meetings with diverse artists from across a number of disciplines both in Calgary and Edmonton. We’re also undergoing a process with the Professional Association of Canadian Theatres and there’s a number of Calgary theatre companies that have gotten together for two or three meetings to have frank and open discussions about equity, diversity, and inclusion that are chaired and convened by diverse artists which has been really eye-opening to us.
We just got some money from Calgary Arts Development, to dig into this work a little deeper. So, we’ve just hired what we’re calling a Community Outreach Ambassador, who for a period of time is going to go out and engage with diverse and underrepresented communities and just have frank and honest conversations with them about what our organization does. Here’s who we are. Do you have creators? Do you have writers? What can we offer you? Is there anything that we could provide that would assist you on your artistic journey?
By the end of this year we’ll probably be creating some value statements that we will publish on our website and those value statements around equity, diversity, and inclusion will trickle down and be at the forefront of thoughts regarding programming.
For ten years Trevor Rueger was the chair, writer, and producer of the Betty Mitchell Awards. The Betty Mitchell Awards recognize excellence in Calgary’s Professional Theatre Community. Photograph by Jasmine Han
JAMES
So, let’s talk about dramaturgy. How do you engage with the playwright? What works best?
TREVOR
For me, dramaturgy is a philosophy. And the philosophy is simply about helping the playwright find the ideas, both big and small in the world that they’re trying to create. I tend to start every dramaturgical session by asking the playwright, “Tell me about you and tell me about your work. And tell me about the creative process that you’ve been engaged in thus far and tell me what you want to say.” A lot of the questions and feedback that I tend to formulate, as I’m reading a work generally always come back to, “What are you trying to say? What do you want the play to say? What do you want the audience to think, feel, and be saying when they’re walking out of the theatre? What’s the experience you want to take them through?” So that’s always where I start a conversation. And that becomes a touchstone from which we can negotiate.
JAMES
Do you have any particular way of breaking down scripts?
TREVOR
There are three things that I really focus on. One is character. If I was to pick up this script as an actor or a director, based on what I’m seeing right now, would I be able to either give a performance, akin to what the playwright has written, or as a director get to a performance that’s akin to what the playwright has written. That’s usually where I have a lot of questions about the character and the character journey. To me, it starts with character, then it moves into structure. How is the world structured? How is your narrative structure? And then my third one is time. I think the notion of time is overlooked by emerging playwrights.
JAMES
What do you mean by time?
TREVOR
What I mean by time is how much time expires in the world of your play. Because time has a powerful effect within a narrative in terms of an emotional state. When I teach my introduction to playwriting, I use the epilogue at the end of Death of a Salesman as an example of time. Linda is standing at Willy’s grave and in the reality of the play he passed two or three days ago. She’s got this beautiful speech about, “I can’t cry Willy. I can’t cry. Every time I hear the screen door open, I expect it’s you. I can’t cry.” And I always ask playwrights in the course, “Okay, so that’s three days ago, but let’s imagine she’s standing at the grave a year later and says those exact same words.”
JAMES
It totally changes everything.
TREVOR
It totally changes everything, right? The audience now is getting a completely different story. And all you’ve done is change the element of time. The actor is going to play it differently. The director is going to approach it differently. So, that’s what I mean by the notion of time, and how time is important and sometimes we give a story too much time. It becomes too epic and the hero’s journey loses all of its stakes.
When you sit down as a playwright and you start to think about a character that’s going to inhabit your world, that’s a piece of coal. Until you put that piece of coal under pressure, you’re not going to reveal all of its facets. So, characters have to be put under pressure. And that’s where you as a writer, and your audience is going to discover all of the facets of that character. And you’re going to turn that piece of coal into a diamond. With facets that shine and shape and inform. It’s pressure. But the pressure can be lost if the writer gives it too much time.
L to R: Col Cseke, Kathryn Kerbes & Trevor Rueger in an APN workshop for Saviour by Maryanne Pope – January 2019
JAMES
I really like the fact that you’re talking character, structure, and time, because then it doesn’t matter whether it’s comedy – doesn’t matter whether it’s a tragedy – because those function in every story. And those things are the elements the story is built out of.
Okay, I have one final question. Speaking as a dramaturge you’re working with a new playwright. He’s written a new play called Hamlet. What are your dramaturgical notes on Hamlet because it’s a pretty good play?
TREVOR
Yeah, it’s pretty good. One question would be, “Do you feel that the Fortinbras plot is overwritten for what thematically you think it’s giving you?” Because that’s the plot that always gets cut. And I ask people when I’m teaching my introductory playwriting course, “In Hamlet, how long from the first scene on the parapets of Elsinore castle to the end of the play? How much time has expired in the real world?”
JAMES
You know, I’ve never thought about it, but it feels like it’s a lot of time. Well because he travels to England and comes back. I don’t know. A month. Two months?
TREVOR
Six months.
JAMES
Six months.
TREVOR
Six months in order to travel by boat to and from England. And there is a reference to six or seven months actually later in the text. But if Hamlet was to be that slow and wishy-washy for seven months…
JAMES
…he wouldn’t have our sympathy. We’d be frustrated with him.
TREVOR
Yeah, we’d want to punch him in the face. So, our mind shortens it to an acceptable amount of time. Yeah, I could see how he would have difficulty making a choice in two months. But you know, if I’m really thinking about the fact that it’s taking him six to seven months to make a decision, I’m starting to turn off the character. Yeah, so maybe you want to take a look at time.
I did a speech for a seniors group at Theatre Calgary many years ago about dramaturgy and I created a fictional case study on if I was to dramaturg Hamlet, but it was like, draft one, right? So, Shakespeare comes to me and he goes, “Okay, I got this great idea for a play. Here’s what’s going to happen. Kid comes back from college because his dad’s died. And then his mom is sleeping with his uncle and his uncle killed his dad.”
“Oh, that sounds really great.”
“Yeah. And then he enacts revenge.”
“Okay, great. Question. Did he witness the murder?”
“No, he did not witness the murder.”
“Did somebody witness the murder?”
“No, no, no. This is how the uncle is getting away with it. Nobody witnessed the murder.”
“So how does Hamlet know that his uncle did it?”
“What do you mean?”
“Well, you said he exacts revenge on his uncle for the murder of his father?”
“Yeah?”
“So how does he know his uncle killed his father?”
“Ah, yeah, I see what you’re saying. (Pause) Ghost of his dad?”
“Ghost of his dad! Good idea. Let’s have him show up.”
Alberta Playwrights’ Network is a not-for-profit provincial organization of emerging and established playwrights, dramaturgs, and supporters of playwriting. Our members come from across the province in both rural and urban communities, with the largest portion of our membership residing in Calgary and Edmonton. We strive to be a truly province-wide organization, with representation from all corners of the province. Alberta Playwrights’ Network exists to nurture Albertan playwrights and provide support for the development of their plays. APN promotes the province’s playwrights and plays to the theatre community while building and fostering a network of playwrights through education, advocacy, and outreach.
“I’ve made a lot of friends working on sets and being in class. Everyone says this is a cut-throat business but it’s not. Actors really do champion other actors. At least the ones I choose to have in my life. I love it when my friends book work, even when we go out for the same roles. We support each other through the tough stuff and celebrate even the small victories.”
Ryan Quinn Adams is an LA based actor who commutes between Lake Tahoe, where his family lives, and Los Angeles in order to pursue his dream of becoming an actor. I first met Ryan when my play, Death and the Psychiatrist, was part of WordWave in Lake Tahoe back in 2016, and Ryan was cast as Randy Cooper a patient with a bundle of phobias including a fear of Thanksgiving that was the result of his pet turkey Oscar paying the ultimate price for the family feast. Ryan brought a warmth and charm to the part and we connected on Facebook and since then I’ve been following his trials and triumphs as he pursues his dream. I spoke to Ryan and we discussed his life as an actor working to break into the biz, as well as his approach to acting, and how The Empire Strikes Back ignited his love for story and movies.
RYAN QUINN ADAMS
Ultimately I’ve wanted to be an actor ever since I saw Star Wars the Empire Strikes Back with my mom and my sister when I was about five or six, and I was just enthralled with the idea of being able to use magic to navigate the world. And my mom knew one of the prop makers that worked on Star Wars, and we went to his shop, and he had a Darth Vader helmet. And I don’t know if it was used in the production but I’m guessing not because he gave it to me. It was a full helmet that attached from the front and back. It was a really well-done piece of machinery, so for Halloween, I was Darth Vader and I made the circuit board. And you know, I’m five or six years old and I just had black gloves and black clothes on but for a little kid it was very imaginative and it just opened my world to how movies can really spark your imagination.
JAMES HUTCHISON
You’ve gone from being that six-year old kid dressed up as Darth Vader trick or treating to that guy who’s trying to become a professional actor in LA. Is there any way for you to tell us a little bit about what that journey has been like for you?
RYAN
It’s been long. (Laughs) When I was eight I did my first commercial. And I lucked out with that because we owned a resort. My grandparents built this compound in Palm Springs on two blocks where all the houses backed onto each other, and my grandparents bought the houses and removed the fences, and so it became a compound. It was for the family to use because they’re big on family gatherings, and they were well to do so they had the resources to do it.
And my mom said, “Why don’t we turn this into an executive retreat where people can come on their business trips.” Basically, your first Airbnb, right? And so, we were living there. My mom was running this executive retreat, and JC Penney was staying there shooting their Christmas catalogue and commercials, and I was in the backyard playing. It was a great place for a kid to grow up because we had pools and there was a lot for a kid to do.
So, I was outside playing and the kid that they had hired was sick. And the producer was walking by watching me play and said, “Hey, how would you like to be in a commercial?” I didn’t know what that was, so I asked my mom and she said, “Absolutely.” And they put me in these nice clothes and had me play. And that was my first paid acting gig, and they paid me really well. I’m eight years old and I made more in a day than my mom made in a month. And I thought, “Wow, that’s pretty cool.”
But I didn’t pursue it at the time because we moved a lot. We moved from Palm Springs to a little town called Eagle’s Nest in New Mexico. And we were there for about four months and then we moved to Tahoe after that.
Ryan’s first paid gig as a model for JC Penny’s Christmas Catalogue
JAMES
Any memorable experiences from your time living and growing up in Lake Tahoe?
RYAN
When I was in the 11th grade Kevin Costner was filming The Bodyguard in Tahoe with Whitney Houston. I was VP of the drama club and our president, Stacey Wisnia, had got it in her head to get in contact with Kevin Costner and invite him to speak. And so, she figured out which hotel he was staying at, and she just wrote him a letter and stuck it under his door.
JAMES
She stuck it under his door.
RYAN
Yup, she slid it under his door. It’s a small town so everybody knows everybody. And she must have known the front desk person and said, “Hey, I just want to slide this note under his door.” And the note simply said, “Hey, you know, we have a drama club and we know you’re shooting here. Would you mind spending a couple hours telling us about your experience?”
And he did. He showed up. And the drama club got to be out of school for the day, and he came to the theatre and we talked. He was only supposed to be there for two hours, but I think he stayed for about four. And he just answered questions and told us about his story and how he was in college and he wasn’t even planning on being an actor. But he stumbled on it. He did a stage performance of, I can’t remember, but it was probably one of the Arthur Miller classics and he fell in love with it.
JAMES
Kevin Costner was a big, big, star at that point in his career. For him to drop in on a local drama club and spend three or four hours there chatting and talking about his life and the business is very revealing about the type of person he must be.
RYAN
He was super generous with his time and his answers. But the big thing he was saying was if you’re considering pursuing acting as a career, don’t do it. He went on to explain all the trials and tribulations you go through and the likelihood of being a star or even being able to make a decent living at it at the time was really slim. Even though he was telling us not to pursue acting as a career all I heard was it is possible and it can be a rewarding life.
JAMES
I think you mentioned to me that your drama teacher also said don’t become an actor.
RYAN
My high school drama teacher, K.C. Hoffman, was just out of college so she was twenty-one or twenty-two teaching people just a few years younger than herself. She gave us the freedom to explore and do the work in a playful way. But she told us how hard the business was and when I was a sophomore, we did a production of Arsenic and Old Lace. I really wanted a specific role, and I got the script ahead of the audition, and I memorized the role I wanted, and I did the work as if I had already gotten the part, and I came into the audition and I killed it. And she said, “Would you like to audition for anything else?” And I said, “Absolutely not. This is the role I want.” And she said, “Really, because I don’t see you in this role.” And so, I didn’t get cast in it, and that was my first real rejection in the business. And she did it, she said, to teach me a lesson because she knew I was starting to think about pursuing acting as a career. So, that was kind of a devastating blow to me.
Actor Ryan Quinn Adams
So, I did pageants and plays and started picking up music instruments, and I was in a band in high school, and when I moved to LA out of high school I wanted to be an actor, but you had to have an agent to get work. There were independent films but not to the level there are now. You could do background work and get your SAG voucher because they wanted you to be SAG before you’d be repped. So, you needed work before you’d be repped, but you needed a rep to get work.
JAMES
That’s a catch-22.
RYAN
It is a catch-22. I found it extremely frustrating. So, to pay the bills I ended up working in the music business. I worked for a company called Studio Instrument Rentals, and they’re still around, and I’m still friends with the owner, Ken Berry.
They have a huge assortment of instruments – drums, keyboards, guitars, amps, anything you need to put on a show, even lighting setup, stages, and professional sound equipment. And I started off as a delivery guy. So, people would rent a Gibson Guitar for a studio session, and I would deliver it. And while I was there, I wanted to learn about how to do live audio mixing, how to do the lighting, how to set everything up. So, it was like a paid internship for me. I just absorbed every little bit of it I could, and within a year and a half, I was one of the production managers that would put on the productions.
I worked with a lot of up and coming bands at the time like Jessica Simpson and Matchbox Twenty. And I worked with Metallica who were pretty well known. And I got to work at venues that most people don’t get to go to see. I did a lot of the parties at the Playboy Mansion and you know as a twenty-something-year-old guy I was living the dream.
Ryan Adams and his friend James Roberts “living the dream” in LA
But when I was in the music business I got really heavy into the drug scene and became an addict and in 2000 I got somewhat sober. I was still drinking and partying but nothing like I had been, and I met my wife Amanda, and I was actually going to move back to LA in 2001, but we found out she was pregnant, and I thought, “Well, let’s do the right thing and stay here in Tahoe and have a family.”
So, I ended up getting a job working for a cell phone company that was eventually bought out by Verison, and I was doing really well in sales, and we’re raising our daughter Aaralyn, and then I started getting back into the drugs and my son Daylan was born in 2006. And I was in my full-blown addiction from 2006 to 2009 where we are homeless, you know, we lost our home. We lost all of our worldly possessions. The only thing I didn’t lose was my children and my wife. And we’re living in a trailer on my in-law’s property just off the hill from Tahoe in a town called Pollock Pines, and in January 2009 I end up getting clean and sober. And at the same time, I started working for UPS as a driver and making really good money, and we bought a house, and we’re living the American dream and everything is going really well.
Family Beach Time – Ryan with his wife Amanda, son Daylan, and daughter Aaralyn
And in the process of being in a 12 Step Program, you start to learn a lot about yourself, and you make amends to the people you’ve hurt. And that’s part of the process and the second time around doing the steps I made amends to myself, because I had put off my dreams of acting and of having a creative and fulfilled life for my addiction.
So, I said, “You know what, I want to get back into it.” And so I started doing plays at the community college in Tahoe, and I started buying digital film equipment, and in 2013 I auditioned for a film called Precaution and Manuel Crosby the director liked my performance, but I wasn’t right for the role, so he rewrote the script to have a part for me in the film. So, my first film credit is Precaution and it was because I did enough work in my audition to get the director to like me enough to write me in. And we’ve become really good friends since then, and he was a USC film student at the time.
So, I started looking for inspiration to write something myself, and I wrote a short called Second Glance. My son and I had gone to Denny’s to get his free Denny’s meal on his birthday and there was an older guy with a beard in a red polka dot hoop skirt with a purse to match and these big hoop earrings, and I just started thinking about this guy’s story. And I thought maybe it’s his wife’s birthday and he’s bringing her to dinner. So, I ended up writing Second Glance which is a story about this guy in a cocktail dress and he’s taking his wife out for their anniversary and along the way he meets all these bigots.
Rob Meiers in a scene from Second Glance. Directed by Ryan Quinn Adams.
And I knew a friend that owned an Italian restaurant, and he let me use the space when it was closed, and we shot this five minute short in eight hours. And everything that can go wrong on a production went wrong. The sound was terrible, so we ended up doing what’s called ADR on all the dialogue which is dialogue replacement, basically. But that film went to some festivals and won some awards, and so I got really involved in the film community. And I started making more shorts and meeting other like-minded people, and I was still working at UPS. So, I’m going to rehearsals at night, and I’m shooting on the weekends and suddenly my life becomes two lives plus trying to manage having a family at the same time. And then I started driving to LA for auditions in 2016 and in 2017 I decided to start taking acting classes with Howard Fine in LA.
He was basically Uta Hagen’s partner you know during the last decade of her life. So, it’s loosely based on Uta’s work. But that was an eye-opening experience because here I was trained to put on these characters on stage and to try to be something that you weren’t instead of using yourself in everything that you are, you know, and so that was a paradigm shift and really intense, but it’s much more effortless now.
Class Photo – Howard Fine Acting Studio
JAMES
Once you got into the serious acting you realize you mine your own experiences. You mine your own life. Your natural responses.
RYAN
Right.
JAMES
That’s one of the reasons acting done well, is so draining, right?
RYAN
Yeah, it’s exhausting even. Even some of the simple stuff can be really challenging if you’re really invested in it.
JAMES
Tell me a little bit about some of your favorite roles you’ve had or some of the favorite acting experiences you’ve had over the last few years.
RYAN
There’s a movie in post-production right now where I play a guy named Vince. He wants to be the boss of this gang, but he’s kind of incompetent, and he keeps screwing everything up, and he takes everything super personal.
The film’s called First Date, and it’s about a teenage kid who asks a girl out on a date, and he realizes his parents are taking the car to Vegas for the weekend, so he doesn’t have a car, but he’s saved up enough money to buy a car, so he goes and buys a car from a shady fellow. After he buys the car he gets wrapped up with a bunch of crazy people, cops, and criminals, including me and the gang I’m a part of, and we end up chasing this kid around. It’s an action rom-com basically.
Ryan Quinn Adams as Vince in the soon to be released action-comedy First Date. Written and Directed by Manuel Crosby & Darren Knapp
So, that was my friend Manuel that I did the movie Precaution with. This is his feature debut. It was a lot of fun to work with him. We shot sixty days over a year in total. We shot a lot because there was a lot of action that needed to be choreographed. And I did some stunts in the movie too. So, I got to work with a stunt coordinator so that was a lot of fun. That’s one of my favourite roles to date just because of how intense I got to be as Vince.
JAMES
Who are some of the actors that you really admire and whose work you like?
RYAN
Meryl Streep, Daniel Day-Lewis, Al Pacino, Robert De Niro, Michael Cain, Gary Oldman, Dustin Hoffman, and Jack Nicholson. They all get lost in the work. They’re so real and compelling to watch. Joaquin Phoenix was great in Joker. He brought a real humanity to the torment that his character was going through, and it was really compelling to watch. Tom Holland is a youngster that just blows me away. I know he has more in him, and I can’t wait to watch his career continue to soar. Hugh Jackman does theatre, musicals, anti-hero movies and is an amazing, loveable, charismatic guy. Tom Hardy is one of my all-time favourites just because sometimes I’ll be watching a film and I’ll be a quarter of the way into it and I’ll go, “Oh, my God, that’s Tom Hardy.” That’s just amazing to me that he can find that character so deep in himself that his essence merges with it. The Revenant, Dunkirk, Taboo… all Tom Hardy. What attracts me to all these actors is how effortlessly they make it all look, but it takes a great deal of craft to make it look that good.
JAMES
What is it they’re doing that makes it so powerful?
RYAN
If I knew that I would be right there with them. (Laughs) You know, a lot of times when you see a really compelling performance on screen it’s because the director gave them the freedom to do that.
JAMES
So, you have a place in LA and you commute between LA and Tahoe because your family is still based in Lake Tahoe. Can you describe what your life as an actor is like?
RYAN
It’s frustrating. It’s fun. It’s challenging. And it’s a lot of work. I put a lot of work into my craft, and I read a lot of plays and screenplays, and I do a lot of scene study with Howard and my classmates.
I spend over half my time in LA. The commute is six and a half hours each way so that’s challenging. I travel 1000 miles a week to follow this passion. The sacrifice of being away from my family for four days to four weeks at a time takes its toll. But they understand and the kids tell me it’s inspiring to see me follow my passion. But it’s hard. And when I tell this story people always ask, “Why don’t you just move them to LA?” Good question. Simple answer. They don’t want to live in LA. My wife has a good career in Tahoe. The last thing I want to do is rip them from their lives so I can follow this dream.
Ryan with his daughter Aaralyn, son Daylan, and wife Amanda in Tahoe.
So, I usually leave on Mondays and I come home Fridays because I’ve learned that if I have an audition on Monday and I don’t have anything for the rest of the week and I decide on Thursday to come home early as soon as I get close to Tahoe I’ll get a notice that I have an audition on Friday, and I have to turn around and go back. So, if I go down on Monday I stay for the whole week, and I almost always have an audition on Monday.
But I don’t wait around for the phone to ring. I never do that because it’ll drive me nuts. I’m always keeping busy either in class or hiking or at a movie or hanging out with some friends. But when you do get the call it’s usually an email or a text. It depends on whether it’s straight from your representation or if it’s through one of the casting sites. And then I’ll read the breakdown. You know, this is a guy in his 40s and his wife just left him and any other details they provide and that gives me a little background. If I can I’ll try to get hold of the script, or if the scripts not available from my agent or from the network I will go and read all the other character’s sides to get an idea of what this show is. If it’s a show I’ve never seen I’ll try to find an episode to watch to get the tone of it. And then once I get all that and have an understanding of where this character will live in their world I’ll start creating my character. Who is this guy? What’s happening? And I’ll just work my craft, and then, if there’s time, and it’s a big enough role, I’ll get some side coaching from an acting coach just to make sure I’m not missing any layers.
Ryan Quinn Adams as Vince and Angela Barber as Ricky in the soon to be released action-comedy First Date. Written and Directed by Manuel Crosby & Darren Knapp
JAMES
But that costs you money, doesn’t it?
RYAN
Yeah, it can cost money. Sometimes I’ll trade with people because I have directing experience and a pretty good eye for seeing what other people are doing. And then you go to the audition and depending on the audition I go through ups and downs of having lots of anxiety about auditioning to let’s just go have some fun and play. And it just depends on the audition. I auditioned for a film that Meryl Streep is the star in and my scene was with Meryl Streep and Nicole Kidman and I was pretty nervous about that one. So, I’ll do some meditation to try to calm things down. And then I go to the audition. And I have a ritual now where I tear up the sides and throw them away as I leave the audition. I’m not taking that with me. My work is done. And if they call me and I get the part then great, but if I don’t get the part then it’s Monday afternoon and I got to go to an audition and act today. That’s my philosophy on that.
JAMES
You mentioned you do films and you do a little bit of writing and some directing. How do you like to work with actors on your set?
RYAN
I love working with actors. It’s such a collaborative art especially when you’re directing. As an actor it’s collaborative too but when you’re directing you’re collaborating with so many people, and I love that aspect of it because you’ve got your cinematographer and your grips and the lighting guys and sound people and the actors and background and the art department and everybody’s coming together to make this thing that you’ve written, and you get to see it go from the blank page to a finished product. If you’re working on somebody else’s script then you take this roadmap, which is the script, and you get to create something out of it. My favourite part is working with the actors and seeing what they’re bringing to the table and then expanding on that because its fun to watch these characters come to life.
JAMES
What is your hope for your career?
RYAN
The generic answer would be a working actor but, you know, in truth, I would love to be on an HBO or Netflix comedy or drama as one of the series regulars. Ideally it would be a production that shoots all over the world so I get to see the world at the same time. (Laughs) That is my ultimate goal. How I get there is still up to the powers that be. But there’s so much work out there, I have no doubt that things are going to start shifting in my career as long as I keep doing what I’m doing.
With film there are different levels and when you start out you’re in the bottom level. You’re doing student films and stuff pro bono just to get a reel and to get experience and maybe you’re doing some background work. And then you level up to paid. Features, independent films, some non-network TV. And then you go into network TV, co-star, guest star, and maybe you’re no longer doing ultra low budget features you’re doing studio features or low budget features. And then you move up to recurring guest star and then series regular and doing big studio features where you’re not the lead but you’re doing more than a one liner on a film.
So, right now I’m levelling up from doing independent features and non-network TV to network TV. And there are some growing pains and some frustrations. Like I’ve been what they call pinned, which is basically between you and maybe another person after you go to call-backs. I’ve been pinned several times in the last few months for some pretty big things, and when you don’t get it you start having this self-doubt, but I just have to keep reminding myself that even a call back is a win in this business.
Ryan Quinn Adams in Dead Man’s Locket
JAMES
The other advantage you have is that you’ve lived a lot of life. I think you have way more life experience to draw upon than that kid who first went to LA at twenty. You’ve been knocked about. You’ve been bruised. You’ve raised a family. You mentioned your addiction and congratulations – I saw a post – where you said –
RYAN
Yeah, it’s been 11 years.
JAMES
That’s awesome. Congratulations.
RYAN
Thanks.
JAMES
I think that gives you a depth that you can use as an artist that wouldn’t have been there when you were younger. So, let’s talk about that. If you were to give a couple of tips to people, you know, thinking of diving in and doing the same kind of journey what would they be even though everybody told you not to do it?
RYAN
I do a lot of stage managing for Howard’s beginning classes and I try to mentor the young people in the classes, and what I tell people is it’s a marathon, not a sprint. Be prepared for the long haul. It takes time to develop craft. It takes time to develop relationships with agents, managers, casting directors, directors, everyone that you need on your side to have any kind of success. Don’t look at the no’s as missed opportunities or rejection. It’s not personal, so don’t take it personally. If you beat yourself up for not getting the role or get bitter about not booking or not getting an agent or if you start thinking it’s not fair, you won’t last.
Actor Ryan Quinn Adams
Allow yourself breaks. Take vacations. Spend time with family. Find balance. Do the things you love to do other than acting. Everybody wants an agent right away and they’re so focused on the career that they’re not spending enough time experiencing their life and what’s happening. You need to live your life to have life experiences to bring to these characters, and if you’re young and you don’t have any life experience it’s okay to get some.
I’ve made a lot of friends working on sets and being in class. Everyone says this is a cut-throat business but it’s not. Actors really do champion other actors. At least the ones I choose to have in my life. I love it when my friends book work, even when we go out for the same roles. We support each other through the tough stuff and celebrate even the small victories.
Getting an audition in LA is something like a one in four-hundred chance. There are three to four thousand submissions and they only call thirty to forty of us in to audition. Then if you get a call back they’re only calling four of us back, and when you book the job that means there were four thousand other people they looked at and you got it! That’s kind of mind-blowing. So, we celebrate the little stuff. “I got an audition.” “Hell yeah!”
Ryan Quinn Adams is a SAG/AFTRA actor based in Los Angeles California. For a complete list of credits, contact information, and acting reels check out www.ryanquinnadams.com or his IMDB Profile. This interview had been edited for length and clarity.
Rebbekah Ogden and Aaron Krogman in the Rosebud Theatre Production of A Christmas Story based on the 1983 movie and the books by Jean Shepherd and adapted for the stage by Philip Grecian. Directed by Paul F. Muir. Photo credit Kelsey Krogman.
“The first show I ever went to see before I became a student here was a Christmas show and it was such a warm feeling of like showing up to someone’s house and the Christmas lights are on and there’s a warm fire and there’s laughter and good food and good drink in that house. That Christmas vibe is on offer here in a really particular and unique way. And, the show is the central point of that. We come together around this holiday and this moment of connection and I think the story is really connecting with people. It’s really a place where you come around and feel that warmth and that joy and the camaraderie and cheer of Christmas.”
Aaron Krogman, Actor
Rosebud Opera House – Christmas 2019 – Photo Credit Randall Wiebe
My son and I journeyed out to Rosebud a few weeks ago to see A Christmas Story. The play is based on the 1983 movie and the books by Jean Shepherd and has been adapted for the stage by Philip Grecian. It’s the classic tale of Ralphie Parker’s relentless campaign to get his parents to buy him, “an official Red Ryder, carbine action, 200-shot, range model air rifle, with a compass in the stock and this thing that tells time,” for Christmas.
Surrounding this core story there are several other subplots and adventures where we meet a whole cast of characters including Ralphie’s friends, the neighbourhood bully, his little brother Randy, the mall Santa, and of course Ralphie’s mother, and his father “the old man.” The Rosebud production features a terrific cast and a versatile and stylized set that adapts easily from one location to the next all while keeping the action moving.
A Christmas Story is a fun and family-friendly production that not only includes a highly entertaining and memorable holiday classic but also features a delicious holiday buffet feast and live Christmas Carols to put you in the mood before you go and see the show. The production runs until December 22nd and tickets are available online at the Rosebud Theatre Website or by calling the box office at 1-800-267-7553.
Aaron Krogman portrays the grown-up Ralphie in a charming and nuanced performance where he guides us through this particular childhood Christmas memory and adds some humourous insights and observations from an adult point of view. I spoke with Aaron about the production, his time as a student in Rosebud, his five years playing Jesus in the Badlands Passion Play, and his love of music.
Aaron Krogman – Rosebud Centre of the Arts
JAMES HUTCHISON
You’re a graduate of the Rosebud School of the Arts from 2008. Tell me a little bit about your time here as a student and what that was like?
AARON KROGMAN
When I graduated high school, I had no idea what to do with my life. I had high levels of interest in multiple topics and zero confidence in any of them. And I remember one summer other friends of mine had been back in town for the summer on their college summer break. And one of my friends said to me, “Dude, if you don’t go to school and do something, I will be so disappointed in you.”
And, a week later I said to my dad, “Dad, if I don’t get a plan together and go to school this fall, I never will, but I don’t know what I should study.” And he thought about it for a little bit and said, “You know Aaron, I’ve always thought you could be an actor on a stage.”
So, on his suggestion, I called Rosebud School of the Arts. Making that phone call was probably the scariest part of the whole thing. Paul Muir, who is the education director at Rosebud, and who is now my boss, answered the phone. We had a conversation about my interests and why I was calling, and I think that first conversation just opened a door for me that has never closed since.
When I showed up that September to start school, it was just amazing. I didn’t think the world could be the way it was in Rosebud. I didn’t think there would be people in the world who cared about the kind of stuff that I cared about. People who spent their lives making space for storytelling with the human being as the prime subject of storytelling and about the possibilities of making the world a better place and making human culture a better place and enabling us to see the best in each other. My time as a student in Rosebud is one of the most amazing life-giving experiences I’ve ever had.
Aaron Krogman in the 2007 Rosebud School of the Arts Production of As You Like It
JAMES
Do you feel that you discovered your purpose in life by going to Rosebud?
AARON
I have memories of being very young and caring about the kinds of things that Rosebud’s about. I wouldn’t say that I discovered my purpose. I recovered it. It was something that was alive in me at a very young age and coming to Rosebud as a student and now being here as a member of the company and as an instructor I feel like I recovered my five-year-old self.
JAMES
Was there any particular instructor or mentor at the school that you remember any lesson learned or experience that still resonates with you today?
AARON
You know it’s funny, I’ve been thinking about what’s been so significant for me in the last month about opening A Christmas Story because it’s been a five-and-a-half-year break for me from interacting with the Rosebud audience. And now I’m back and this is my first time on stage and re-engaging with that audience. And I think it is the collective education that the audience has given me – the feedback and the support and the affirmation of what good, clear, generous storytelling is.
I think what’s particularly unique about Rosebud educationally is the chance to be in front of the audiences that come here. I think they are a powerful part of the training that takes place and I think there are many in the audience who deliberately come here because they want to see students grow. And so, I think, in the big-picture view of what has really made a difference for me has been exposure to and vulnerability with that audience. They are just as significant an educator as any of the faculty here.
And most of the direction that I’ve received as an actor has been with Morris Ertman the Artistic Director of Rosebud. I’ve done more shows with him than any other director and cumulatively his confidence in the ideal that we as storytellers have something vital to offer that matters has rubbed off on me in ways I’m still just discovering.
Aaron Krogman, Rebbekah Ogden, Glenda Warkentin, Silas Winters, and Nathan Schmidt in the Rosebud Theatre Production of A Christmas Story based on the 1983 movie and the books by Jean Shepherd and adapted for the stage by Philip Grecian. Directed by Paul F. Muir. Photo credit Morris Ertman
JAMES
Well, let’s talk a little bit about A Christmas Story. At the end of the night after the audience has seen the play what do you think they walk away with?
AARON
Well, I think it’s similar to what the play does for me. We end the story on Christmas morning. And I remember Christmas after Christmas my dad giving me a Christmas gift and being really excited about it. And in the play the dad is excited that his son’s going to open the gift that he’s been asking for – forever. And the father and boy open the present and the dad has all this additional information about the gift and I have so many memories of my dad saying things like, “Oh, I got you this little stereo for your room. And it has all these features and let me take you through all the features.” And that’s what happens in the play. And that’s so familiar to me. And it makes me so fond of my own father in that moment. And I love story that returns us to our own life in a way that makes us more able to live it somehow. Whether that’s remembering the best parts of it or whether that’s looking at it in a slightly more positive way.
JAMES
Tell me about the cast and what it’s like to work with them and how you guys worked on the play and brought it together?
AARON
It’s a ton of people who are all currently Rosebud School of the Arts students or grads. A lot of times we bring in guest artists which is awesome, but this is a rare thing where it’s a big cast that’s in house. And there are lots of opportunities for students in this show to take their first steps on the Opera House stage.
It’s one of the things I’m loving the most about this process right now. I’m watching students go through what I went through as a student. Which is having the opportunity to perform in front of an audience and how that changes your experience of the text and how important that is and to realize, “Oh, there’s an opportunity for a laugh in this line, which I didn’t see at all. And if I just say it clearly and communicate it, and offer it up, the audience will be ready for it. They know there’s a laugh line coming before I do as an actor. And if I just listen to them, they lead me to it.” So that’s one of the elements that’s happening in the play right now and I love to see that happen.
Back: Kalena Lewandowski, Anja Darien, Rebbekah Ogden, Holly Langmead. Front: Silas Winters, Keisha Wright in the Rosebud Theatre Production of A Christmas Story based on the 1983 movie and the books by Jean Shepherd and adapted for the stage by Philip Grecian. Directed by Paul F. Muir. Photo credit Kelsey Krogman.
JAMES
In Rosebud you do these main stage shows that run for two months. What as an actor is beneficial about having these longer runs where you get to spend time with this character in a story every week?
AARON
The educational opportunity is exponentially bigger. I think it’s amazing to experience the full range of what different audiences can be like in terms of their engagement. If you do a two-week run where you do ten shows, the greater part of your experience of that show is going to be rehearsal. Performance is the smaller part. And, I think that in most theatre programs you never get out of rehearsal.
You might do your student shows for a weekend or for a two-week run, but they’re all in house audiences. They are people who are coming that know you. There is value in an audience that is objective and indifferent and paying money to see a show. And there are those elements in a Rosebud audience and while they care about theatre they’re also paying money and they want it to be good. And I think that is part of the pressure cooker of what it means to be part of live theatre.
JAMES
When I was doing my research for this interview, I discovered that you released an album in 2012. I was just curious about music in your life and the importance of music and the creation of that album. How did that all come about?
AARON
I got into music long before I got into theatre. I was raised in the church and the primary involvement I had with the church was musical. So, I started playing drums and then played bass and then guitar and just did everything. I really loved music. It was one of the first things that really spoke to me.
And I was working on a play with Lucia Frangione, who’s a very successful award-winning Vancouver playwright who teaches a course here at Rosebud and she liked my writing and offered to collaborate with me on a project she was working on. And we started working on a piece about a songwriter who wrote songs and so I started writing songs for that play. We did some development and it was pretty exciting, but it didn’t really take off and so, in the end, I had these songs. And a friend of mine here in town Paul Zacharias was a music engineer and producer and he just made an offer to record them through his company doG House Studios. And I said, “Yeah, let’s do it.”
It’s funny that you asked about that because I’m actually scheduled to have another meeting with Paul and we’re going to record another album. And I’m excited about it because I’ve always loved music.
Aaron Krogman as Jesus in The Badlands Passion Play
JAMES
Let’s talk a little bit about the Badlands Passion Play. You’ve been in the play for seven years and five of those years you played Jesus. Tell me a little bit about the experience of being in that production and what that was like.
AARON
It’s theatre, but it’s different. It’s unique. It’s outdoors and it’s primarily community theatre. There are a few people who are there in a professional capacity and most of those contracts are behind the scenes in terms of stage management, design, and direction.
Almost all of the actors are volunteer or from community theatre and I think that is probably what makes it the most unique. There’s an amateur vibe to it, which is amazing. I’ve become a huge fan of the word amateur, as I’ve heard it defined by some of my favourite authors, as those who do something for the love of it. These are the real priests of culture. They’re the ones who are making an offering with the work of their hands.
JAMES
How did you find your interpretation of Jesus and that story change over the time of you performing it?
AARON
I think it charts some of my growth as an actor. I understudied the part for two years and so I watched it and I developed my opinions. My first-time playing Jesus was a reaction to what I had seen. I really wanted to play Jesus as understated and not as profound and to be motivated by the present moment. But in some ways, it didn’t serve the stage because that’s a particularly large stage and the size of the performance has to be a certain thing in order for it to reach the back of the house. People are watching with binoculars. They’re not seeing my authentic transparent thought.
JAMES
You were acting for the camera instead of the stage.
AARON
Totally. And, you know, the directors were all over me for that, and rightfully so. And I think we each have our imagined version of who Jesus is or was regardless of our faith and we also have this imagined version of Jesus that our culture offers us. Is he angry or is he warm and kind?
And I really wanted him to be like my version where he’s warm, thoughtful, and a little bit of a rebel. But the second year I got to do it I went really hard in the other direction. And the third year I did it, I sort of was like, I have no idea what I’m doing in any of this. And so, I just emptied myself of any preconceived ideas and based my performance very much in the moment and it’s not my strength as an actor.
I pre-plan. I know my text. I do my backstory. That’s been my habit, and that third year, I threw it all out. I just emptied myself of any preconceived notion of what I ought to do, and I just entered and reacted, and it was very much a roll of the dice in terms of who I was embodying. And I still did the right blocking. I didn’t surprise anybody really, but it was for me internally a hands-off kind of thing. And then the last two years I did the same thing and that’s kind of how I am as an actor now.
Rehearsals are about finding the boundaries, the thresholds, the gates to pass through. The ones that matter. And then after knowing those boundaries taking my hands off the wheel and having less control and the less control I have the more alive I am in the scene and the more people can enter into it. So, I flush the lines from my head. I empty myself of my awareness so I’m not conscious of what’s coming. I just let go and trust that the lines will be there and then I just react in the moment. Which is something I should have been doing in the first place.
Badlands Passion Play
Badlands Passion Play
Badlands Passion Play
Badlands Passion Play
Badlands Passion Play
Badlands Passion Play
Badlands Passion Play
Badlands Passion Play
JAMES
But that’s the big challenge, right? It’s the ability to know the lines so well that you can forget them. So, the emotional energy of your interaction with the characters on stage is what you’re actually responding to.
AARON
Totally. And that’s what I’ve loved about acting alongside someone like Nathan Schmidt who plays my Dad in A Christmas Story. He’s just one of the most generous scene partners. He pays attention. And he just says yes to everything you do.
JAMES
I have one more question about the Passion Play just because I was reading that it’s becoming more musical. There’s been the addition of live music and rather than the lines always being spoken some of them are now being sung. Is that correct?
AARON
In 2018 they went on a big tangent down this musical road and then in 2019 they jumped in with both feet. I think I sang twelve songs in last summer’s version. And now for next year, they’re not going to be doing the music they’re going to go in a different direction.
JAMES
Oh, interesting.
AARON
That’s another unique thing about the Passion Play. They’re workshopping it every year. And sometimes there are big changes and sometimes there are smaller changes. The production, as a whole, is hungry to grow and always kind of morphs.
But there is something really cool about the musical theatre form because it’s larger than life. The size of the expression and the form of the expression reaches further, it’s more obvious and it demands more of your body. It demands more of your instrument. And I think it lends itself to the size of an outdoor stage. And in the Passion Play, you have to use your hands. You have to point at who you’re talking to. All those things which feels so manufactured, when you’re not used to them become the language of that stage. And musical theatre already lives a huge step further in that direction.
But it’s funny because in recent years I’ve spent much more time on the Passion Play stage than on a smaller stage like the Rosebud Opera House and I’ve had to shake off the habit of full arm extension every time I say a line to somebody. It’s been great to let that go and find a more subtle size of performance.
Rebbekah Ogden, Nathan Schmidt, Silas Winters, Glenda Warkentin, Geordie Cowan, Kalena Lewandowski, and Keisha Wright in the Rosebud Theatre Production of A Christmas Story based on the 1983 movie and the books by Jean Shepherd and adapted for the stage by Philip Grecian. Directed by Paul F. Muir. Photo credit Kelsey Krogman.
JAMES
So, why should people come out to Rosebud to see A Christmas Story?
AARON
Because it’s more than just the show. It’s coming to this town. There’s Christmas lights everywhere. There’s Turkey in the buffet. You get to hear Christmas music sung to you as you eat. You enter into the Christmas context in a way that is just so memorable.
The first show I ever went to see before I became a student here was a Christmas show and it was such a warm feeling of like showing up to someone’s house and the Christmas lights are on and there’s a warm fire and there’s laughter and good food and good drink in that house. That Christmas vibe is on offer here in a really particular and unique way. And, the show is the central point of that. We come together around this holiday and this moment of connection and I think the story is really connecting with people.
It’s really a place where you come around and feel that warmth and that joy and the camaraderie and cheer of Christmas.
A Christmas Story based on the 1983 movie and the books by Jean Shepherd and adapted for the stage by Philip Grecian runs until December 22nd at the Rosebud Opera House. The production stars Aaron Krogman, Rebbekah Ogden, Glenda Warkentin, Nathan Schmidt, and Silas Winters and is directed by Paul F. Muir. Tickets are just $84.00 for adults and $62.00 for youth and include a seasonal buffet with roast turkey and stuffing, plenty of side dishes and other main courses, plus a vast array of pies and cookies and puddings. Order tickets on-line at the Rosebud Theatre Website or by calling the box office at 1-800-267-7553.
StoryBook Theatre is Canada’s largest volunteer-run Theatre for Young Audiences and produces a season of plays that are designed to offer mentoring opportunities and artistic development to emerging artists while providing high-quality entertainment at affordable prices for Calgary families and theatregoers. In addition to offering a season of plays, StoryBook also runs a year-round theatre school that provides classes in acting, dance, and music for children, teens, and adults. Now in its 43rd Season and operating out of the Beddington Theatre Arts Centre StoryBook has entertained more than a million Calgarians and has become an important part of the cultural fabric of this city and an integral link between the professional theatre community and emerging artists.
Part of the driving force behind StoryBook Theatre’s success and growth has been its Artistic Director JP Thibodeau who is an award-winning actor, director, and theatre designer. Over the last few years JP has worked with playwright and composer Joe Slabe to create world premiere musicals, including Lest We Forget, Naughty But Nice, and the multi-award- winning Touch Me: songs for a disconnected age, presented by Theatre Calgary. He has worked on stage and behind the scenes on a variety of productions including Richard III and Romeo & Juliet with The Shakespeare Company; Rock of Ages and The 39 Steps with Stage West; Dad’s in Bondage and Lest We Forget with Lunchbox Theatre: and A New Brain and Avenue Q with StoryBook Theatre. JP has directed more than 55 musical productions and has worked tirelessly to foster the growth and development of young musical theatre artists across the country. He is the recipient of the 2016 Greg Bond Memorial Award for outstanding contribution to musical theatre in Calgary and was just awarded the Sandstone City Builder Award at the Mayor’s Lunch for Arts Champions in recognition of his work with StoryBook theatre and emerging talent.
I met with JP at his office in the Beddington Theatre Arts Centre at the end of July just before he was about to begin directing the North American tour of Queen’s We Will Rock You by Ben Elton for Annerin Productions and Jeff Perry Promotions to talk with him about his own journey and his vision for StoryBook.
StoryBook Theatre’s Production of Rent
JAMES HUTCHISON
You got a nice honour at the Mayor’s Lunch for Arts Champions this year. You received the Sandstone City Builder Award.
JP THIBODEAU
The award is really about the initiatives we’ve been doing here at StoryBook. And I didn’t really realize it but my entire career has been about emerging artists and community building. I think the hard part about getting the award is that I get the honour of the award, but there really is a team of people that contribute in a lot of different ways.
JAMES
So, you came into StoryBook with a vision that you’re now seeing realized. Can you can talk about that initial idea and vision?
JP
I left a previous job after ten years because I got to a point where I wasn’t fulfilled artistically or business-wise. So, I had to walk away from that for my own sanity, and at that point I didn’t know what I wanted to be when I grew up.
And George Smith, who was running StoryBook at the time, had reached out to me and said, “Can you direct a show for us?” And so, I came out and directed a show and we had lots of talks about StoryBook and where it was because the year previous it had almost gone bankrupt. So, they were trying to figure out what it needed to be when it grew up.
So, we were both in this – what do we want to be when we grow up stage?
And when 2013 came around, they asked me to take over interim, but I knew I didn’t want to take a job just because I needed a paycheck. I needed to make sure that there was some fulfillment in it. So, the board and I talked a lot about vision. And we had a retreat and I said, “What’s missing in this community is a bridge between the professional theatre community and the amateur world.”
And there’s nothing wrong with the amateur world. There’s an important place in the world for community theatre. But what’s missing is that in between for the people who’ve gone away to school and they’ve come back to Calgary, but they can’t get hired at Theatre Calgary or anywhere professionally yet. And there’s no one helping them hone their musical theatre craft and saying you have potential – so let’s change that and put them with some professionals.
And one of the biggest realizations I had my first year when I took over was understanding the importance of networking in the arts and how fundamental that is to any career longevity. You need to know people. You’re not going to get an audition – you’re not going to get an interview – you’re not going to get anything with anybody unless they’ve heard of you, or someone in their circle has heard of you. And so that really became my focus as an emerging artist myself.
JAMES
What were some of the pillars that you wanted to put in place to make your vision of StoryBook a reality?
JP
My kids had a big part of that because at that time we were going to the Saddledome to see The Wiggles, or we were going to see these big touring shows that we’re paying 80 and $90 to go see. And there’s nothing in it for the parent. It’s just for the kids. So, as parents, you’re just chaperones, you’re just babysitters and I’d think, “This isn’t family time because I’m not getting anything out of it.”
And StoryBook used to have this thing called Cookie Cabarets, and the audience would come in and all the kids would file down to the front of the building, and the parents would sit at the back, and I would go to the booth and watch the show from the back, and I’d see all the parents on their phones while all their kids are down front, and they weren’t sharing the experience because we were telling them the kids sit close and the parents sit at the back. We were telling them don’t enjoy this as a family.
Within the first month after seeing that I changed it and said, “We aren’t doing it anymore.” And I got lots of backlash. And I said, “No, they need to enjoy this together.” So, then it became if they’re going to enjoy it together, there’s got to be something in it for the adults. So how do we do that? And that’s when the re-planning and the reshaping of what our seasons would look like began.
JP
And for me, it became about engaging professionals. Every show needed to have professional mentorship. Whether that was the director or the choreographer, or the stage manager, whoever it was, there needed to be that professional development and mentorship on the team. And in those early years, and even today, I really make sure that everyone on the team is offering some kind of a mentorship to those emerging artists who are finishing high school or have just come back from university or college. And by giving them that mentorship we instantly elevate the quality of the show.
And that’s when directors like Mark Bellamy or Karen Johnson Diamond or Kevin McKendrick and all these other great Calgary artists got involved and started really helping me shape who we were going to be. And so, we started elevating the production quality and that gave the parents something. So now they’re going, “For my $25 I’m getting so much more, and it’s worth the time with my kids.” And I think the beauty of theatre, in general, but especially in our city with a lot of oil and gas families where mom or dad work a lot is that they get to spend that time in the theatre with their kids and this is their hour they’ve set aside to come and be with the family.
JAMES
One of the things I really like is that you have the cast come out for autographs and selfies at the end of the show.
JP
That was the one thing I was told I would not be allowed to change, but when I first took over I didn’t want to do it.
JAMES
Really?
JP
As an actor, I don’t like being me. I like being a character on stage. But after watching the first season I thought I don’t know how you couldn’t do it. We get letters from the kids and from the parents who took their child to their first show ever where they got to see the show and then meet the people in the show after.
And when we do our first meet and greet for a new show that’s starting production we talk about the importance of what we do and why we do it. We talk about StoryBook and who we are and where we’ve been, and why I’ve assembled the team I’ve assembled for that show.
And we talk about how they’re going to be someone’s first theatre experience and someone in that audience is going to be moved enough to pursue this as an art form or become a future patron all because of what we do in this show. And nine times out of ten that someone comes and talks to you after the show and you may not even realize it until I get the email later and forward it to you.
StoryBook Theatre’s Production of Mary Poppins
JAMES
Where do you want StoryBook to be two, three, four years from now?
JP
Right now the office runs with two – three people – max and at this point we want to look at the internal and figure out how do we support me? How do we support the office? How do we support the Theatre School in a way that has longevity and sustainability, because while we were growing all the programming, we never grew the office. So, we never gave focus to the bloodline that makes this all actually happen.
The board and I had a great talk last year and I said, “You know, when I first took over, I said in ten years, we should be equity, and be a full union house.” And last year, I said to them, “I’m going to retract that. I don’t know that we should because I still think we’re a necessary part of the building blocks of the community. We are the next step for someone who’s looking to make a career. But we’re not the full step. And so, we need to focus on the educational component, and really make sure that what we’re offering is mentorship and guidance into the next level of someone’s career.”
And we do that right now through the shows but I’d love to see that transcend a little bit more into education. And you know, by no means am I suggesting that in five years StoryBook will become a college or anything like that and it’s not necessarily the Rosebud model either but something where a student could finish school and we offer internships where they’re directly correlated to a school program where they can come here and work on set design, for example, and create these relationships beyond the StoryBook doors. But right now, we don’t have the capacity to do that administratively, so I want to figure out how to grow us from the inside.
JAMES
So, what you’re looking for is the business model that will allow for people to come here and work and mentor and build an organization that has stability.
JP
That’s exactly what we’re looking at is the business model and I think this current season has the right number of shows for us, and I think beyond this it would probably be doing tours. We could take some of the shows we’ve created, or some of the shows that we’re working on, and start touring them. Like Alberta tours, or Western Canada tours, or across Canada tours.
JP Thibeadeau Singing with the Cast of MisCast – A StoryBook Theatre Fund Raising Event
JAMES
StoryBook offers subsidized programming can you tell me about that?
JP
When I first took over, we had a theatre school and at that point we were seeing about 500 kids a year. Now we see about 3000. And so it’s grown a lot. But one of the biggest comments we would get on feedback forms was parents saying they wish they could do more but they can’t afford it. And so, we started talking in the office, and I said to the team, “Well, what’s one more kid? It doesn’t cost us anything more to throw one more kid in the classroom.” And I said, “Let’s just try it.”
And so it quickly became our mantra to not say no to anybody. So, on average we get five or six requests for subsidy a week. And I remember I was talking to this one girl’s dad and he said they feel like they’ve done their daughter a disservice because they couldn’t afford piano or dance or voice lessons for her because this is her love, but they just have no money to do it. And they were so so happy that she can at least audition for the shows and get in and that made me realize how fortunate I was as a kid. I was fortunate enough to have voice lessons and piano lessons because my parents could afford it.
But there are so many kids who can’t. So, we decided that we’d create this program, The Ellie Tims Project named after one of the founders of StoryBook. And the intention is to give youth whose families can’t afford it free piano or dance or voice lessons for a semester and provide free building blocks and inspire them. That’s part of the reason we want to look at the business model and figure out how to get more fundraising to support these programs.
JAMES
So, what you initially started in order to create a bridge between the professional world and the community theatre world has turned into city-building and community-building.
JP
It is now, for sure.
JAMES
I bet you didn’t anticipate that.
JP
I didn’t. Not at all. I never saw myself as an emerging artists advocate. But when I ran this dinner theatre in Canmore, you know, having been freshly out of school, I was hungry for a job. So, I knew where the hungry people were, right, the ones who were just finishing school. They’re keen, they’re eager, they’re willing to try and do things and they have a more naive, yet energetic attitude, and there’s more optimism to them wanting to be a part of something.
So I did that – then, and I’m still doing it now. And at StoryBook our Student Summer Intensive Program is the nearest and dearest to me. It’s all these young people who have just found themselves. They’ve just decided who they are, and how to express themselves and you watch them form these relationships that will last a lifetime. They don’t know it yet, but we know it – watching it.
And so, you watch them bond and I always say to the parents on opening night that this program isn’t about them putting on a show. It’s about them finding themselves and creating something together and being community builders. And usually, at the end of the program, I’ll ask who’s planning to make this a career and less than half raise their hands.
There was one girl a couple of years ago who went through the program and now she’s in her fourth year of University because she’s always wanted to be a lawyer, but she took the program because she just loves it. That made me realize that this is about building and understanding community. And theatre is about community and how we interact with each other. Good or bad. We work together. We work through it.
StoryBook Theatre’s Production of The Wizard of Oz
JAMES
One of the things I want to talk about, other than the StoryBook is your own work because you’re a designer, you’re an actor, you’re a singer. You’ve done all these other things. I’m just curious about some aspects of you as an artist. What about as a director? How do you approach a show?
JP
The script has to be one that I’m excited about and passionate about and I think a lot of it comes down to casting. And I think for me as a director I’m okay with young people who don’t have it already there. I think for a lot of directors the casting is 90% of the work, because if you cast the right people the show is done. But I like casting the diamonds in the rough. The talent is there, but it might not be polished, and I like that, as a director, I like that challenge and seeing them grow in the process.
JAMES
And perhaps an artist at that stage is going to grow a great deal more given that opportunity.
JP
I think so. A lot of my process is about living on your growing edge and so I talk about that a lot in the rehearsal process. If the scenes are too comfortable, you’re not growing. And so, we talk a lot about that and a lot about storytelling and that musicals aren’t about music they’re about storytelling and using the music to help tell that story. So, if that means that the song isn’t as perfect and beautiful as it could be that’s okay as long as you’re telling the story because the audience can feel the story and hear the story and that’s fundamentally your job.
JAMES
Any particular show on your wish list that you want to direct?
JP
There’s two. One is A Chorus Line. I don’t know why. Maybe it’s because I’m not a dancer, and I’m not a choreographer. But I’ve always had this great vision for this show, and I would just love to see it come to fruition. The first time I saw it I don’t think the director understood the show. It was a tour. I saw it in Toronto. All the acting was disconnected from the song. And I felt like there was acting going on and then songs going on and there was no connection. And for me, as a director, in my rehearsals I’ll talk a lot about how dialogue is the extension of music.
So when a song is up tempo the dialogue immediately following that song should still be in that tempo. And the dialogue in that scene should take us to whatever the tempo is for the next song. We should feel that naturally. It shouldn’t feel jarring when all of a sudden the song stops and now we’re talking to this person in the scene.
I think the way A Chorus Line is set up is it is very much – dialogue by this person, they sing a song, next person, and so on, right. Given that the title of the show is Chorus Line it’s about the group of people not the individuals, and I think, every time I’ve seen it, that’s been a part that I feel is lost – the idea that this is about that group, the whole group of people and their connection to each other, not just one person, which is the irony of the show.
JAMES
So, that’s one.
JP
Yeah, that’s one. And I want to direct Shakespeare but I don’t know it well enough. And I’ve done my fair share of contemporary Shakespeare designs but I just don’t feel Shakespeare’s as accessible for a modern audience as it could be. I think the Shakespeare Company’s done a great job of bringing that together but I would like to direct it and make it more accessible to a modern audience and someone more like me.
JAMES
That would mean commissioning and reworking the script obviously.
JP
Totally.
JAMES
The Lion King did a pretty good job of reimagining Hamlet.
JP
I think my bucket list would be to do something like that. Something that’s innovative. I’d love to create something new and be a part of the creation of it and a part of a team of creators.
The 2019/20 North American Tour Cast of We Will Rock You – The Musical by QUEEN and Ben Elton
JAMES
How did that opportunity come about?
JP
I think this is one of those networking opportunities where you’re just connecting with all the right people at different times and then somehow, they all connect and come together at the same time.
This is through Annerin Productions here in Calgary and Jeff Perry Promotions. Jeff has been one of the biggest stadium promoters in Canada for years and they wanted to start creating shows. And they’ve done this with RAIN and Let It Be that went on to Broadway and the West End. And they recently did that with Jukebox Hero and when they were developing that show they asked me for advice and input about how they could do it in Calgary.
And with We Will Rock You I think there are ten Alberta based artists performing in the show out of a cast of sixteen and the whole band is from Calgary. The entire production company is all Calgary based and so it’s pretty impressive for a North American tour coming out of Calgary to be happening.
JAMES
I’m seeing A Chorus Line down the road.
JP
There you go.
JAMES
So, here’s a logistical question. You’re designing a show that you’re going to pick up, and you’re going to set up that morning, you have a quick tech and that evening you have a show, and then you strike and go to the next town. What are some of the logistics of creating a touring show like that?
JP
My brain has been hurting? Just so many questions. Every stage is a different size. So, how do I block the show? Do I block it for the smallest stage? Do I block it for the medium stage? So we’re making decisions as we go and seeing what works best. And there’s been a lot of that kind of stuff. Plus, Queen’s pretty heavily involved. Which is so cool and so scary all at the same time. So, their music Supervisor flies in on Monday to be with us for the first week of rehearsals to make sure all of the music is learned the way that Queen wants it learned.
JAMES
So, you have to lock things in earlier. Things that you wouldn’t normally have to lock in at that point.
JP
Yeah. The show’s been designed to travel and transport and build in four hours and so it’s got to easily pack up and the set has to be built before we even start rehearsals. I have to commit to everything whereas with StoryBook there’s a little more flexibility.
JAMES
When does it open?
JP
It opens September 3rd in Winnipeg and then travels to ninety-plus cities in the US and Canda through to March 2020. Including New York City at Madison Square Gardens in November and then it comes back to Calgary December 27 at the Jubilee.
JAMES
I have one other question. So how do you manage your time? Like with your commitment at StoryBook and your directing how do you keep organized? How do you keep things on schedule? Because you’re such a busy guy.
JP
Well first, I hate the word busy. I call it living. It’s a choice and no one’s forcing me to do it. So, it’s not busy and I know my wife on certain days will disagree, but I think we’ve gotten a custom in our society to glorifying busy or the idea of busy. You know someone might say to me, “I’m so busy at work today.” And I’ll go, “What’s so busy?” And they’ll say, “Well all these patients today.” And I’ll say, “Oh, so like you went to work. You did your job.” So busy now is just working. That’s why I hate it
JAMES
Alright, I’ll change the question, then. How are you so productive?
JP
I don’t think I would be if I wasn’t organized. And there are times of the year where it’s great and there are times when it’s a gong show. Christmas time is a gong show every year until December 12th hits, and it’s my birthday, and all the shows that I’m part of are open. It’s fortunate that in the position I’m in now and where I am at in my life that I can be a little bit more prescriptive about when I work, or when I’m on-site to work. Because I can do a lot of it from other places. And we’ve done pretty good as a family setting aside time. I’ve got two boys. So, even driving here today, I was dropping my boys off at swimming and I would reach over and poke my son and do these things that annoyed the hell out of me as a kid when my dad would do it. And I’m doing it now because I just want to be connected to him. But it’s tricky, because, my job is night and my wife’s job is day and so we’re passing ships in the night sometimes.
JAMES
You have a very clean desk for a person who is so productive.
JP
It’s funny, you’re the third person this year, who has said that to me. Someone came into my office and said, “Well, who’s desk are you sitting at?” I said, “Mine.” He said, “That is your desk? I figured your desk would be the messiest desk.” And everyone in the office was laughing because that’s exactly, I think, how people see me. They see everything I’ve got my fingers in, and they think I must live in chaos. And I don’t. I can’t be artistic and thrive unless I’m organized, at least I know that works for me.
The Drowning Girls – Vertigo Theatre – Photo Tim Nguyen
Tim Nguyen’s work is striking and vivid and the images remain with you long after you’ve seen them. He’s one of the most sought after performing art photographers in Calgary and his work ranges from capturing all the energy and emotion of live theatre to the intimate and personal process of portraiture. You can see more samples of his work and contact him through his website: Tim Nguyen
I sat down with Tim at his home office to talk with him about his theatre work, his award-winning fine art photography series Lumination, and his Rococo Punk project for the School of Creative and Performing Arts at the University of Calgary.
Photographer Tim Nguyen
JAMES HUTCHISON
So, before you became a photographer you were thinking of acting as a career and you went to the University of Calgary because you were bitten by the acting bug.
TIM NGUYEN
I was.
JAMES
What type of acting? Comedies? Dramas?
TIM
I discovered very early on that I’m not funny on stage. My comic timing is atrocious. I’m relatively amusing in conversation, I would like to think, but on stage, it’s the patter or the timing, the thinking on my feet – just doesn’t happen the same way. So, I made peace with that fairly early on, and I decided that I would try my hand at more dramatic roles. Angsty roles. Because I was twenty and I wanted to talk about my feelings on stage.
So, I got to the middle of third year and it became really clear to me that this was not the right path that I was on. I’d botched a couple of auditions that I thought I was a shoe-in for, and when the casting came out I was at the bottom of the list. So, I got handed a lesson. A harsh lesson. And it left me time to reflect and realize that this wasn’t the right thing for me. I felt like I was moving vaguely in the right direction, but the artistic direction was slightly askew of where it needed to be.
So, after having this very difficult conversation with a prof of mine, who’s now retired from the university, I realized that it was actually okay to change directions and to admit that I hadn’t been approaching things quite right and to move on to the next thing. And it was a breath of fresh air, and at the same time, it was a bit of a kick in the pants. But I was also sort of lost at sea. After I graduated, I worked in retail for a while. I sold cameras. I did construction. I travelled Europe for a little while. And when I got back from Europe a few photo jobs just landed on my desk and then snowballed into bigger and bigger things.
Sylvie Moquin – Lumination – Photo by Tim Nguyen
JAMES
When did you start to realize you had an eye for composition?
TIM
I have a really specific point in time that I can call back to. I think it was grade eleven where I had this little box camera. It was basically a reloadable disposable camera. And that was what I carried around in high school for the most part. And there was a day where my girlfriend at the time and myself were downtown in the Devonian gardens with the late afternoon sun spilling in through the windows and just beautiful shadows coming across the old Devonian gardens. They had those big angled skylights on the one side and this really stark tile. And for whatever reason, I asked her to go and sit over inside the shadow. Inside this specific area. And I took four pictures on this little box camera and when I got them back that was it. It was this lightning moment where I looked at what I had shot and what I was trying to do and I looked at the shapes – the forms – the shadows – the light and I knew that there was something there that I needed to keep investigating.
Brian Smith – Portrait – Photo by Tim Nguyen
JAMES
It’s interesting, you said you walked in there and you’re looking at the shadows. You’re looking at the light. You’re looking at the textures. You’re looking for that place where you can put the subject and something magical is going to happen. Because most people would not see that and so much of photography is understanding or being attuned to the light.
TIM
Once the camera-specific elements were muscle memory everything else just became about the composition. I don’t spend much time or energy on getting my settings dead on when I’m shooting theatre anymore because it’s just automatic for me.
JAMES
And when you’re doing production stills they’re running the show.
TIM
I get one crack at it. I have not read the script. I haven’t seen the set. And that is the only day of the production that I’m in house.
Crime Does Not Pay – Downstage – Photo by Tim Nguyen
JAMES
Why do you choose not to know the play before you go shoot it?
TIM
It didn’t start off as a conscious choice. It started off as a matter of opportunity. The first company that I shot for was Downstage when they first formed. Simon Mallett, who founded the company, was doing his masters at the same time I was an undergrad. So, we’d known each other in university and even in school I was the guy with the camera. And he started bringing me down to the Motel Theater to cover shows that he was producing. And these are shows that were being done with Home Depot lighting and bits of pipe and drape. There was no production value to them. They were just people trying to do politically motivated theatre, and they had a statement they needed to make.
JAMES
Right, because Downstage is based on conversation. We want to start a conversation about a particular subject, so they’d create a show.
TIM
Right from the get-go that was their mandate. So, I was given the freedom to just show up. I was given a couple of bucks for my time. It was the starting point, the foundation of learning how to tell a story through still imagery and finding my own aesthetic inside of that as a medium. Because it’s one thing to just document a production as it’s happening. I could stand in the middle of the house and point my camera at various corners of the stage, but it’s going to look like that’s the level of effort that I put in. When I go and I cover a production I am running the entire time. I’m sweating as much as the actors on stage are, and it’s been quite a while since I’ve been concerned with how much noise I’m making. If anything, I’m akin to phones going off, candy wrappers crinkling, or a baby crying in the house. But I’m the only person in the audience so it’s less problematic.
Mark Bellamy, Barbara Gates Wilson, and Tyrell Crews in the Vertigo Theatre Production of Death Trap by Ira Levin – Photo by Tim Nguyen
JAMES
And you’re capturing something that’s going to be here and then gone anyway – and yours is the record. It’s an extremely challenging thing to get good photographs of a stage performance because you’re trying to capture particular moments – particular connections between the characters – or particularly revelations of a character, and those are fleeting and fast. So, I imagine your time as an actor, has in some ways, informed your shooting of plays.
TIM
A hundred percent it has. One of the things that I noticed early on was my sense for where an actors blocking was going to go – where they were going to travel on stage. I was effectively predicting it a lot of the time. So, I’m trying to stay a step ahead of the actors and where they’re travelling, but then I have to have the right composition to complement their eyeline for their intention plus whoever they’re speaking to. It’s a hell of a challenge.
JAMES
It’s spontaneous, yet there’s a certain structure to it
TIM
Very much so.
Andy Curtis, Anna Cummer, and Tyrell Crews in the Vertigo Theatre Production of The 39 Steps – Photo by Tim Nguyen
JAMES
How would you summarize what you’re trying to capture in the frame when you shoot a play?
TIM
When I’m shooting a play I’m not really paying a ton of attention to the text. I don’t fully absorb the storylines most of the time. I’m looking for moments of heightened emotional responses from the actors. Moments of high intensity. High action where lighting effects or special effects are going to go off. Things like that. But at the same time, those are really particular moments. Eighty percent of the play is still covered beyond that.
When I’m looking at the rest of the show what I’ve realized is that I’m not really looking a hundred percent at what’s happening through the viewfinder either. I kind of relax my eyes – kind of like when you take your glasses off. I relax my eyes a bit and I look at forms, negative space, where the highlights are and how elements complement one another, and I’m composing around that for the most part. So, it’s a bit of experience based, and it’s a bit of a sense for how shape and form and colour should fit and interplay, and those I think are the main approaches that I’m using these days
Jesse Lynn Anderson and Graham Percy in the Vertigo Theatre Production of Raymond Chandler’s The Big Sleep adapted by Aaron Bushkowsky – Photo Tim Nguyen
JAMES
In addition to doing production stills you’re also doing some advertising work for theatre companies with your photography. Let’s talk about the new season campaign you created for Vertigo.
TIM
This has really been a natural progression of what I’m doing in the performing arts community. I’ve been doing the production stills and headshots for ages and doing advertising and poster work for the arts isn’t completely brand new for me, but it’s relatively recent.
One of the conversations I had with Vertigo towards the end of last season was that they were getting a little tired with their existing imagery and style especially when Lunchbox and ATP and everybody else was refreshing their brand. So, I presented about eight different styles of artwork that I thought were potentials in one of the pitch meetings with Craig their artistic director and Evelyn and Kendra their marketing people and Darcy who was their graphic designer. The two winning concepts were the lighting style of my own Lumination work which Craig was aware of because I’d actually done a gallery show at Vertigo the season before and had about twenty of the Lumination prints on display there for most of the season.
The other part of this concept was influenced by True Detective, the TV series. The intro and theme has a ton of video compositing that’s done layer upon layer of faces with cityscapes that are sort of washed across them. They kind of look like projections that kind of look like they’re coming from inside the skin. And it’s this beautiful style of work that got copied over, and over, and over again by other people when it was popularized including us to some degree. So, what I ended up pitching to Craig was a combination of those two things. I wanted to do a floating shape and I wanted to create a composite that was tailored to each show.
Sherlock Holmes and the Ravin’s Curse at Vertigo Theatre – By Tim Nguyen
JAMES
So, there are little clues in your composition about the themes of the show about the subject matter of the show. And right now, we’re looking at the Sherlock Holmes image.
TIM
Sherlock Holmes and the Raven’s Curse. So going with fairly literal imagery to begin with we’ve got the bird’s wings. The raven wing shape moving upwards and then the raven sort of sitting over top of this particular part of the Isle of Skye. The Isle of Skye being one of the main backdrops for the show. And we’ve got Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson in the image as well.
JAMES
And then a mysterious woman.
TIM
There’s a mysterious woman of Asian descent. That’s why there’s dragon imagery in the background. At the time of creating this that role hadn’t been cast. So, we were looking for a creative way to incorporate the knowledge that there was going to be a third primary figure without making them identifiable. So, I decided to have her looking out into the scenery and having her back to camera.
JAMES
The great thing about this image is that when I look at it I want to know what this play’s about. It makes me curious. It looks intriguing and interesting. It looks mysterious.
TIM
Yeah, I’m really, really satisfied with how this one came out.
JAMES
Is this type of work something you want to pursue more?
TIM
I think so. This was a lot more satisfying to do than some of the piecemeal stuff that I’ve been doing just to keep bills paid. With this project, I was able to sit down for a longer period of time and concentrate on it and really give it some critical thought about how I wanted the aesthetic to come across.
Mercy from Overwatch by Porzelain PNG – Photo by Tim Nguyen
JAMES
You mentioned your Lumination series. Tell me a little bit about that project and how it got started.
TIM
So, Lumination was born from theatre as well. It was inspired by a Downstage play called In the Wake that I documented at the Motel Theater in 2010 and then they took it on tour. The production was entirely presented on a platform. It was five actors on a platform that was about ten by ten and they performed on it for ninety minutes. It was a fairly large chunk of plexiglass with pockets of lights that were on dimmers underneath that they could control and they could colour. And these were all Home Depot lights at the time.
And they did something absolutely beautiful with it. There was shadow play. There was puppetry. There was contact improv and shape creation with their bodies. It was just beautiful to take in. And it led to this immediate thought when I was documenting the play that I wanted to see what I could do with it. I wanted to see what I could do with that style of lighting.
And so, I asked Simon Mallett to borrow that set for probably about a year and a half before he let me borrow it, and I showed up at the Motel theatre one night after they’d done a run, and I put my own lights inside their box, and I put a light overhead. And that was the very first time that I had ever done that look. And it was just called the lightbox project or something like that at the time. I had a dancer, and I had a nude that I had brought to the space, and we just experimented with shape and form and musculature to see how it worked. And it worked out beautifully. Those photos are as good as any of the things that I shot during the two years after that.
And then a couple of years later, I got my own studio space, and I had Anton deGroot who built the set for In the Wake rebuild that stage in my studio. And I had that for three and a half years. I’ve since replaced that with something more robust. Something that’s actually got an acrylic top and I stick lights underneath and point them upwards now.
Justin Dale, world Champion Cyr Wheel Performer – Photo by Tim Nguyen
JAMES
So, what was the evolution of the subject matter then in terms of what you were shooting?
TIM
It didn’t start off as theatre, I can tell you that much. I started off mostly with dancers. I had a fairly good in with Dancers Studio West and a couple of other companies at the time. I was really interested to see what this hard contrast lighting would do with musculature, particularly legs and movement and jumping and that sort of thing. So, dancers were a natural and for the first year that I was doing this project I was asking people to come as they were. I did have some styling on site, but I was mostly interested in seeing who these people were as I was having a brief conversation with them and finding out what made them tick.
JAMES
You were looking to capture something of the person and the personality?
TIM
Yep. So, I was shooting this with a 200-millimetre lens. I was 25 feet away from the set. So, there was a bit of shouting back and forth over music and that sort of thing. But what it did was – it isolated people in space.
So, I just rolled a blank sheet of paper down behind them. And the studio was thirty feet by twelve feet. So, I’m on one end and my crew is sitting behind me and the subjects – they’re on the far end totally by themselves. No props. No sense of background. The overhead lights were on because that was how I chose to shoot all these. So, they didn’t even really have a sense of what the lighting style was like.
Scorpio Theatre – Photo by Tim Nguyen
TIM
For a lot of these people it was it was a leap of faith and just assuming that I knew what I was doing. To start with I didn’t give people a ton of direction. I asked people not to bring a lot of props. For the most part, it was articles of clothing. It was wigs. Anything handheld was passable, but I wanted to look at people as they were. Or, who they wanted to present themselves as, and sort of play within that realm and see what I could extract from them. And I found that really fascinating. But about halfway into that process the theater stuff starting to creep in.
I had the entire crew from Scorpio Theatre come down to see me. They brought swords, shields, chain mail, and axes. They were doing a stage combat based show and there was a bunch of short scenes all stacked together, and each one of the scenes devolved into some kind of big fight. It was super amusing. I really enjoyed their show. And this ended up being their marketing material for it. We ended up creating these long panorama images that were a composite of this person fighting this person. With this person overhead. And this person down here.
Pan and Hook – Lumination – Photo by Tim Nguyen
JAMES
So, you would shoot people individually or two people at a time and then compose the whole image.
TIM
For the most part, all of these shoots have been two people at the most. In fact, in the Peter Pan one, those two people were photographed six months apart.
JAMES
That’s how Orson Welles used to shoot his films. We’ll do the close up now in Europe and I’ll get the guy in Hollywood six months later.
TIM
That’s a good comparison, I like that. So that actually touched off a really hard change in what my intention was. I suddenly had people showing up and they were putting on these full characters. For me, they weren’t showing up as themselves. That led to 2017 where all I did was photograph people in cosplay. I did a year’s worth of people in these high colour, cartoony type of outfits, and those were the characters that they wanted to present, and that I found incredibly fascinating. At one point I had nine Disney Princesses show up all at once. So, we spent an entire morning photographing Cinderellas and Ariels and Rapunzels.
The YYC – Princesses – Photo by Tim Nguyen
JAMES
And then you decided to make a book.
TIM
I did. The book doesn’t have any of the Cosplay work in it, unfortunately. The book is entirely black and white and it is the work that I did between 2012 and 2015. Since that time, I’ve been doing everything in colour.
JAMES
Some great portraits have been done in black and white.
TIM
Absolutely. Some of the best portraits have been done in black and white. For me, black and white changes the way somebody takes in the image. You are not focusing on blemishes, skin tone, bags under the eyes. You’re not focusing on nudity. You’re not focusing on anything other than the texture of an image and where the light is and the negative space. And those are all things that I gravitate towards, quite heavily.
Christina Robertson – Lumination – Photo by Tim Nguyen
JAMES
So, I’m curious when you’re going to do a portrait and you’re trying to capture somebody – how do you go about doing that?
TIM
It’s similar to how I approach doing headshots for people. And I think portraiture sort of evolved naturally out of my headshot business. When somebody comes for a professional headshot the first conversation I have with them is how uncomfortable are they being in the studio knowing that they’re about to be on camera? Because despite all of us being performers in one way or another, there is a heavy sect of people that really don’t want to be on camera. They would much rather be behind a keyboard. Behind the lens. Behind the scenes.
With portraiture, I put a lot of stock into putting people at ease before we even get started. And I feel like part of that is actually my personality. I present myself as very easygoing, very relaxed, low intensity, and that puts people at ease most of the time. So that’s a starting point and the portrait work I’ve been doing for the last year and a half has largely been conversational. So, I have a lot of outtakes, where people’s mouths are moving, or their eyes are darting around, and that sort of thing. And that’s something that I’ve had to teach myself to shoot around.
Erin Madill – Portrait – Photo by Tim Nguyen
JAMES
And so maybe you’re capturing the moment when they’re thinking about the question rather than answering the question.
TIM
Those pondering kinds of looks are quite popular.
JAMES
Because they drop the facade. They’re internally in their mind.
TIM
As soon as you get somebody really thinking about something all of the external stuff goes away.
So that is how a lot of my portrait work has been developing over the last year. I’ve been discussing, in advance, with people that are coming for a portrait what subject matter we should get into. And it’s led down some very curious paths including been given some really brutal trauma stories from people. And I’ve been let in on secrets from people that I will never – never redistribute. But it’s also led to this artistic wall that I’ve run into where I’m not totally sure how to present that work now, because of the context of how it was given to me. But I’m trying to find the right voice to put that into the world without exposing people in the wrong sense. The best that I’ve come up with so far is, I think, I’m going to discuss the questions that were asked more than the answers that were given. So, I’m sitting on about a year’s worth of portrait work that’s both beautiful and brutal.
Zac Savage – Portrait – Photo by Tim Nguyen
JAMES
Let’s talk a little bit about the project you did for the School of Creative and Performing Arts at the University of Calgary which is being unveiled this Saturday during Alumni weekend.
TIM
The Rococo Punk?
JAMES
Yeah. What exactly is Rococo Punk?
TIM
My interpretation of Rococo Punk – as an art style – is effectively the embodiment of Renaissance silliness.
JAMES
I like your definition better than what I read on Wikipedia. How did the project come about?
TIM
I had been developing a Renaissance style of lighting that I had been using mostly on nudes and on portraits, and I wanted to do something broader with that. The first thing I did was rent this dress from the university and I hired Natasha Strickey and we generated that photo. And after she graduated she ended up becoming a good friend of mine. And we’ve done a lot of creative work together like that, that has influenced to a heavy degree, the way that I’ve moved forward.
Natasha Strickey – Lumination – Photo by Tim Nguyen
TIM
And then I had a conversation about a year and a half ago about doing something like that with April Viczko, who directed a show called, The Learned Ladies at the University of Calgary three seasons ago. What I actually pitched to her was that I wanted to get the cast back together from that show and see if we could do a renaissance group portrait with everyone. Unfortunately for me, I hadn’t really considered that some of those actors aren’t in town anymore, or they’ve ceased acting, or they’ve just moved on to different parts of their lives. So that wasn’t really an option.
April counter-offered and suggested we try and see if there’s an event that we could wrap this inside of and get somebody to fund it. And the next time we sat down that was exactly what she had done. The Alumni Association was interested. Alumni Weekend was interested. So, let’s see if we can get some grad students and prominent alumni to come down for this rather than having to get these specific actors.
JAMES
This is a big project.
TIM
Humongous. I had the responsibility of the shooting days, and the post-production was entirely on my shoulders. But there was a team of about five people that did the initial groundwork and gathered the costumes and the casting and did all the fittings. And all of that took about a year and then on Alumni Weekend last year there was a team of 30 people that were working on this plus all the talent that came which for the most part are alumni, faculty and students and includeS 62 different people.
The camera was thirty feet back from the set. And I had it up on a platform on a tripod for the entire weekend. We photographed about two people at a time. It took two full days. It was about 20 hours of photography. And then it took all of October last year to put the image together.
So, this is going to end up as an enormous print that is going to be 60 inches wide that’s going to hang in the Reeve Theatre lobby. So right outside the space where we created it. And that’ll be a permanent installation that we’re revealing on the seventh of September and I’ve got wall space set aside at my studio, which I’ve just finished renovating, and I’m going to have my own copy of this made.
Rococo Punk – University of Calgary School of Creative and Performing Arts – Photo by Tim Nguyen
The grand reveal for the Rocco Punk was held on Saturday, September 7th in the Reeve Theatre Lobby during the University of Calgary’s Alumni Weekend. The photograph features University of Calgary alumni from the School of Creative and Performing Arts including: Anton deGroot, Michaella Haynes, Sarah Mitchell, Brad Mahon, Odessa Johnston, Julie Orton, Megan Koch, Cayley Wreggitt, Sadaf Ganji, Brittany Bryan, Jason Mehmel, Connor Pritchard, Marisa Roggeveen, Mark Bellamy, Emily Losier, Michèle Moss, Tim Nguyen, Natasha Strickey, Donovan Seidle, Pil Hansen, Allison Lynch, Tina Guthrie, Laurel Simonson, Jason Galeos, Meghann Mickalsky, Christopher Hunt, Vicky Storich, Clem Martini, Louisa Adria, Shondra Cromwell-Krywulak, Allan Bell, Allison Weninger, Kaili Che, Megan Stephan, Lisa Russell, Ana Santa Maria, Madeline Roberts, Myah Van Horm, Elizabeth Rajchel, Onika Henry, Val Campbell, Hailey McLeod, Taylor Ritchie, Liam Whitley, Adam Kostiuk, Bruce Barton, Zachary McKendrick, Simon Mallet, Braden Griffith, Laura Hynes, Lana Henchell.
Barry Tuff, Rogers Media – Photograph James Hutchison
“I remember, there actually was a sort of a watershed year for me where I realized I must have arrived on some level because I had an unbelievable year of new business achievement and was rewarded for it. And I looked at it, and I realized that they were all referrals. Every single new business account was a referral. And I said, “That’s it. I believe I have arrived on some level. People trust me. They’re, okay to refer me.”
Barry Tuff, Rogers Media
You won’t stay in business long if you don’t get customers through your door or get customers purchasing your products and services online. And while social media and digital have opened up new avenues for reaching potential clients television and radio still attract a large audience and offer tremendous marketing opportunities. For several years I worked for Citytv writing and producing commercials and one of the people I worked with in sales was Barry Tuff. Barry is one of those sales guys who cares deeply about his clients and just as deeply about the people working at the station to help deliver an effective advertising campaign. I sat down with Barry to talk with him about his career in media, our predictions for the Stanley Cup, and his love of music.
JAMES HUTCHISON
So, we’re going to chat a little bit about life in media. Your life in media specifically.
BARRY TUFF
It’s been a long life.
JAMES
Where did you first start, and what year was it?
BARRY
In 1976 I started working for a company called Hook Signs which became Hook Outdoor the monopoly billboard company in Alberta. I was there for about two or three years. Years later, it was bought out by Jimmy Pattison and is now one of the largest outdoor companies in the world, but when I started there it was a beautiful experience because it was a small family run company. And your goal was to become a director someday and be able to share in those profits. After that, I left and tried out a few different things that didn’t work out very well and then I got into radio.
JAMES
Where was your first radio job?
BARRY
I went to work for CKXL in 1980.
JAMES
The CKXL of today is not the CKXL of 1980.
BARRY
Not at all. It was a top 40 radio station. The morning show had a 30 share and a share is the percentage of radio listeners tuned into a given station at a given time. And the personalities on that radio station were celebrities. It was incredible to be part of that. We had the XL sunspot sticker and it was on just about every car in the city and we had people running around giving out money if your sunspot was spotted and they pulled you over. We had the fun bus and the fun bus would be going up to the mountains all the time with winners in it. It was a party bus. So, there was lots of money and lots of ways to exploit it. And there wasn’t a hell of a lot of competition. We had CFAC which was a country station. We had CHQR which was easy listening and CFCN which was about the same.
JAMES
Radio was massive in those days.
BARRY
It was massive. We had a client that had these pots and pans they wanted to sell out of a farmers’ market that was located on Blackfoot Trail, and they spent a couple thousand dollars to buy some radio spots on CKXL to sell this truckload of pots and pans. Of course, these were the best pots and pans in the world at an incredibly discounted price. I think it was 35 bucks in about 1982. I went to check it out and I couldn’t get close to it. The traffic jam was incredible. There were literally people parked on the boulevard running up with their money in their hands to get a hold of these pots and pans. That kind of stuff would happen all the time. So, you knew people were listening, and they were responding, and it was nice to be a part of that. Of course, you reflect on that now because the world today is so fragmented.
JAMES
And now you’re working for Citytv but when you started here it was still A-Channel which was owned by Craig Broadcasting.
BARRY
It was A-Channel, the last of the independents. And we survived with our hard work and ingenuity and you know, being a good alternative and providing great value and great service to our clients. And then A-Channel was sold to CHUM out of Toronto, and A-Channel became Citytv, and then CHUM was sold to CTV, and CTV couldn’t keep all the assets.
JAMES
Because at the time the CRTC said you can’t have two television stations owned by the same company in the same city and CTV already owned CFCN here in Calgary.
BARRY
And then Ted Rogers who was always known as a bit of a maverick said, “Here’s a cheque. Go get Citytv. I want it.” And so, we went from the little station that could to an iconic Canadian brand – Citytv, and then Rogers bought us and they’re a company with really deep pockets, and that really put us on the map.
JAMES
You’ve done local sales for a long time in radio and television and worked with a lot of local clients in this market. What are some of the things you would tell a client today that they should be looking at in terms of their use of media as part of their marketing message?
BARRY
I think consistency is essential.
JAMES
When you say consistency what do you mean?
BARRY
You want to be on-air as often as you can and as much as you can. You really need to stay front and center at all times. And that doesn’t necessarily mean you have to have a huge budget. You can narrowly cast your net and just buy Breakfast Television for example and be there all the time, and by doing that you can build your business and build your brand. You have to be there in good times and in bad times, it’s insurance, and you’re going to gain market share because others aren’t there consistently, and so when the good times come you’re going to do really, really well.
JAMES
You’re talking about keeping that top of mind awareness in the consumer’s mind because people do forget.
BARRY
Yes, they do.
JAMES
If you look at national brands they always dedicate budget to brand awareness in conjunction with their sales message. And the sales are more successful because the branding message keeps them in the consumer’s mind, and there’s statistical evidence to prove that the brand advertising impacts positively the sales advertising, correct?
BARRY
Yeah, well, it triggers associative memory or your reticular activation system, you know, by which when you’re in the market for something all you see is that advertising, right? And when you’re not in the market for something it retreats. You don’t notice it. And as a salesperson, I can not emphasize enough the importance of being prepared and asking the right questions when you meet a new client. You should know all about them, and you should do all your research. That’s one thing that’s changed. I remember spending time in the basement of the public library downtown looking at microfiche and annual reports before going out to a client. That was an afternoon. Now it’s pretty easy to get that information from their website.
JAMES
But you still need to hear from them.
BARRY
You still need to find out what their pain points are, what their goals are, what their challenges are, and where they aspire to be. And often, they’re confused, you know, you need to help them focus because there are lots of choices now. We do lots of digital. Rogers Media has a full line of products that we can geofence and geotarget, and we’re fully integrated with our other media divisions. We have digital and television, but we also have our radio group in Calgary which includes CHFM, 660 News, Jack FM and Sportsnet 960. And the vision for media companies these days is that they can provide all your solutions with just one call.
And a lot of clients in a tough economy want extra value and one way to do that is to develop partnerships and promotions. And we’ve got lots of ways to do that. We’ve got segments on Breakfast Television they can sponsor, we’ve got live eyes, we’ve got a great promotions department so there’s contesting. And that way you can add layers to a 15 or 30-second ad campaign. We do lots and lots of that. And one of the most gratifying things we do is working with charities on that basis and developing partnerships.
JAMES
What are some of the local charities that you’ve worked with?
BARRY
We have worked with organizations like The Mustard Seed, Inn from the Cold, and Safe Haven. Those are just three of them. Rogers supports charities and they’re good corporate citizens. They encourage their employees to volunteer, and Rogers gives every employee one day off a year during work time to volunteer if they choose to. And then we have a weekend in June where everyone in the company is encouraged to go out and volunteer. And this year we went out and volunteered at the YMCA’s Camp Riveredge, and we helped the grounds crew clean up and get things ready for their season. And we’ve also volunteered at the Mustard Seed and at the Calgary Food Bank. And we partner on events like the Calgary Marathon and this year we produced a series of vignettes. They were profiles in courage really and told people’s stories about how they started running and how it changed their lives and we hope that those stories might inspire someone to try something they might not normally try. And radio was there, and Andrew Schultz from Breakfast Television was at the finish line, and Ted Henley from Breakfast Television starts the race and announces the runners as they cross the finish line.
JAMES
What are some of the clients you’ve had for the longest?
BARRY
We’ve worked with Toyota for 20 years and when you work with a client that long you really get to know each other. And the key is to never take each other for granted. Just like a marriage. Because you cannot rest on your laurels and assume that’s going to be there from one year to the next. So, you have to foster that relationship constantly. We’ve worked with Broadway Across Canada for many, many years. I remember the first time they came through with a Broadway production I thought, “Well, this is great. It’ll come and it’ll go.” Well, I think we’ve worked with them for probably 15 years now. We partner with trade shows and festivals. A lot of individual events. The Circus comes to town once a year, and Disney on Ice comes to town once a year, and the Monster Jam and on and on and on.
JAMES
Let’s talk a little bit about the new season and one of the new shows you have on your schedule is Four Weddings and a Funeral. What can you tell me about that one?
BARRY
It’s based on the 1994 movie that starred Hugh Grant and Andie McDowell. It’s produced by Mindy Kaling. She was in the office and she’s a comedian, she’s had a pretty popular show recently, but now she’s branched off into the movies and she’s behind the scenes of this one as a producer. It’s about relationships and how complex they are and we hope it resonates with people. It will air Thursday nights at 10 o’clock.
JAMES
And then you’ve got a new situation comedy coming up called Mixedish.
BARRY
Mixedish is the prequel to Blackish. It’s about a mixed-race family that lived on a commune and then moved to the suburbs and the children have to navigate a school culture where they’re not perceived as either black or white. So that’s got some real potential and it’ll run from 9:00 to 9:30 on Tuesdays and Blackish will run 9:30 to 10. So, same production company and same writers and if it does half as well as Blackish we’ll be pretty happy.
JAMES
There’s a midseason replacement that looks interesting called Council of Dads.
BARRY
It’s about a fellow that’s been diagnosed with terminal cancer and he’s very principled and he wants to make sure that his philosophies about life are passed on to his kids after he’s gone. So, he puts together a council of his friends who are also dads to step in after he’s gone and guide his children. And when we showed the trailer to our ad agencies we had a disclaimer saying that this one may bring a tear to your eye because of what it’s about, and we had people reaching for the tissues. It should have some impact, and it’s a great message.
JAMES
And on your Saturday nights – what have you got programmed there?
BARRY
This will be the fifth season of our owning the NHL broadcast rights and between the City stations, Sportsnet and our partnership with Hockey Night In Canada on CBC we’ll produce and broadcast 500 games plus every game in the Stanley Cup playoffs. And of course, the best part is that because it’s sports anything can happen. And this year we had some Canadian teams, including the Flames, in the first round.
JAMES
It would have been nice to have a few more rounds.
BARRY
It would have been nice to have a few more rounds, but that’s sports and every season there’s always going to be some great memorable moments, and there’s a large audience who are big fans that will show up and watch.
JAMES
Quick question for you then. As a Calgarian I know you won’t be biased on this, but what’s your prediction for who will the Stanley Cup next year?
BARRY
(Laughs.) I can not make that prediction.
JAMES
I can. Calgary Flames, man. Go Flames Go all the way.
BARRY
Yeah, it’s the Flames turn.
JAMES
That’s right.
BARRY
It’s been a long time. It’s the Flames turn.
JAMES
So, you’ve had a long career in sales.
BARRY
Forty-three years.
JAMES
So, looking back on that forty-three years, what do you think it is that makes a salesman good at their job? What are the qualities you think you need to be a top salesperson?
BARRY
I think you need a work ethic, for sure. You need discipline. You need to look after you so you can look after other people. And you need to be informed. And you have to be interested in things and inquisitive, and you have to have empathy, above all, because it’s not about you. It’s about the client and any client that you go see their first question is going to be, “So what’s in it for me?” And you have to be very cognizant of that. So, first you have to find out who they are, where they’re at and where they want to be, and then make a proper recommendation based on education and experience. And if anybody is interested in selling you have to study selling from the masters. There are books. There are seminars. There are YouTube videos. You have to become a student for life because even when you are at the top of your game you’re never done.
JAMES
There’s never a, “You Made It,” party.
BARRY
There is no finish line. I was just talking to somebody this morning and I asked him, “How’s the year going so far?” And he said, “Well, I had my best year ever last year and you know what that means for this year?” It’s hard to overachieve when you’ve had your best year ever because you become the victim of your own success so you’re always chasing something.
JAMES
Plus, we should say that when you’ve had your best year ever your sales manager looks at you and goes, “How are we going to improve on that and deliver an extra 10% this year?”
BARRY
Yes.
JAMES
So, what do you think people misunderstand about the sales profession? What do they get wrong?
BARRY
I think it’s those terrible clichés. It’s the huckster. It’s the pitch person. It’s the snake oil salesman. And sometimes when you walk into a new business and even though you’re not like any of those and you’re professional you can often get judged based on the last few that were in the door before you. So, when you meet new clients, you’re always having to earn the right and always having to earn their trust.
JAMES
So, what I’m hearing from you is that part of being a successful salesperson is establishing, maintaining, and growing your reputation.
BARRY
Reputation is everything. I remember, there actually was a sort of a watershed year for me where I realized I must have arrived on some level because I had an unbelievable year of new business achievement and was rewarded for it. And I looked at it, and I realized that they were all referrals. Every single new business account was a referral. And I said, “That’s it. I believe I have arrived on some level. People trust me. They’re, okay to refer me.”
JAMES
Because that’s putting their own reputation on the line.
BARRY
Yes, it is. And you can feel it. Reputation is everything.
JAMES
Reputation and integrity.
BARRY
Hand in hand. And, above all, you always want to seek ways to be inspired so that you can inspire other people.
JAMES
Okay. Well, then speaking of being inspired let’s talk about another interest of yours. You’re a musician?
BARRY
Yes, I am.
JAMES
How long have you been a musician?
BARRY
For as long as I can remember. I started playing drums probably at the age of 11. And I think I got together with other musicians and jammed for the first time probably when I was about 15 years old. And then starting in the 80s there were these six-night cabarets and we put together a great band and we played all over, it was a tremendous band.
JAMES
What were you called?
BARRY
The band was called Body Talk and we had a massive P.A. and light system and it was a good-looking band and we dressed well and we had sound effects. We did cover material, but it wasn’t necessarily the most popular covers, but it went over very well and one of our first gigs was opening for Chubby Checker. And Chubby’s a good guy and he was playing with a bunch of New York musicians who were on the road with Chubby just trying to keep the dream alive.
And then we became an A-Circuit party band called Cross Section and we had a beautiful girl that sang with us. It was a real show band and we played for companies that would have these lavish parties and they’d hire us. Mostly one-night corporate stuff which was way better money than playing six nights in a cabaret. We finally figured that out. And since then I’ve been in some country trios and I played in a gospel band for a few years at a church.
JAMES
So, music has been a cornerstone of your life and I’m wondering what is it you get out of music? What does it provide?
BARRY
It’s a high, it just is a tremendous high when those lights come on. And I ended up playing with a very talented musician who drove us to rehearse past our abilities. And I hate to rehearse but he said, “If you are overprepared on your best night you’re going to blow everybody’s mind, and on your worst night you’re going to be really good.” And he was right.
JAMES
Who was that?
BARRY
Frank Windsor. He’s a commodities broker in town, and he’s an incredible musician. Just incredible. And, that was a good lesson. And it’s a lesson that you can certainly apply to just about every area of life. You have to be willing to put in the work in order to be prepared and do your best.
This week my play Written in Stone is premiering at the Newmarket National 10 Minute Play Festival along with twenty-four other Canadian plays. In last week’s blog, I interviewed Michael Halfin the Artistic and Executive Director of the festival and Heather Dick a director, actor and playwright who is directing my play.
The plays are grouped into four themed Pods with six plays being presented in each Pod. Written in Stone is part of the “you|TURN” Pod and tells the story about the creation of the Ten Commandments and explains the reason man was given a soul, and how Lucifer ended up in hell. The production is being directed by Heather Dick and stars Bridget Bezanson as Michael, Meredith Busteed as Lucifer, Stephanie Christiaens as Gabriel, and Alexia Vassos as God.
Usually, I’m the one doing the interviewing on my blog but this week I’m answering some questions Heather asked me about my writing and specifically about what inspired me to write Written in Stone.
HEATHER DICK
What sparked your writing of Written In Stone? Was it in response to an event or interaction between people that you observed? Or something else entirely?
JAMES HUTCHISON
I was inspired by God. In a manner of speaking. I was doing a lot of reading about Greek mythology and the Bible and early Christians and I’d just written a play called The Blood of a Thousand Chickens which is my interpretation of the story of Oedipus and an examination of belief using Zeus and the ancient Greek Gods to look at customs and traditions and practices. So, I was thinking of ancient times and Gods and exploring religion and that got me to thinking about what might be the best ten commandments for creating a healthy and vibrant society where equality and environmental stewardship were the cornerstones of the law. And so while musing about all of that the idea of placing the creation of the ten commandments in a corporate setting where God is the boss and he’s escaped for the weekend to go play golf while leaving his employees to do the work he’s going to take credit for popped into my mind.
HEATHER
How do you approach writing a play? Do you begin with characters, an issue you’d like to explore, a theme?
JAMES
It varies. I’m a gardener when it comes to writing. I like to plant the seeds and see what grows. I’m not big into structure initially. I need the spark of an idea to get me going, and then I just sit down and start writing. Sometimes the whole play will simply emerge in a matter of a week or two or in a day if it’s a short play, and sometimes it can take years where I keep coming back to a script and a story I’ve been working on for some time until I get it finished. The big thing for me is I need the spark or the beginning moments usually in order to start writing, and that often gives me enough to get a third of the play written. So, at that point, I’m learning about the characters and the story and what they want and who the protagonist is and who the antagonist is, but once I hit a certain point then I really need to figure out my ending. I need to know how the story ends in order to continue writing the play, because knowing the ending informs the structure of the story and all of the obligatory scenes you need to have in order to reach the end, because everything is leading towards a specific outcome.
Sometimes the story and structure of the play come earlier and sometimes it comes later, but once I know the ending then I put on my architect hat and sketch out the rest of the plot. And if I can’t figure out the ending that’s where the play stalls, and it goes back into the drawer maybe to re-emerge at another date or to join the millions of other unfinished stories in drawers and on hard drives around the world to forever be forgotten.
One of the other things I’ve discovered about my writing is that what I need to know about the character is also influenced by the story. I have a bunch of questions I will ask about my characters especially for longer plays and doing that helps me understand the history of my character and the choices they’ve made in life and what’s important to them. Just as a side note, I never begin with the physical description of a character. It bugs the hell out of me that so many character profiles begin with hair colour and weight and all these other least interesting characteristics. What you need to do is determine the kind of a person your character is, and that means who they are and what they do for work. How they treat people. The physical person is determined by the career and ambitions of your character otherwise you are letting your physical description, which is only the surface aspects of your character, determine the very nature and soul of who your character is and what they want, desire, and need in life. Now that might mean in the end certain physical aspects might be extremely important in terms of self-identity such as a person who values their physical strength but is now growing older and feeling the effects of age. So that character in order to maintain the physical beauty and strength of their youth might be willing to do something such as sell their soul or take an experimental drug to keep what they value most.
And I don’t sit down and necessarily fill out the entire character description at the beginning. I tend to go back and forth making discoveries in the writing of the play which means going back and answering more questions about my character in the character profile. So, for example, you could be writing a scene and suddenly your character mentions having worked at an all-night diner in her twenties and that isn’t something you knew before so now you go back and you ask about that time in her life and who she met and what her day was like and how that has informed her life and the choices she’s made and her view of people. Then having that knowledge you go back and continue the story and now the character has specific memories rather than vague ideas. It makes for a more vibrant and interesting story.
A really big thing for me – is finding the right name for a character. In fact, if I don’t have the right name I can’t write. I spend lots of time looking at baby names and the meaning of names and testing names out until I land on the right one. So, once I get an idea for a play then I have to discover who the characters are and what their names are and once I have the right name – boom I just start writing. So, for example in my play Death and the Psychiatrist – Death’s name isn’t death it’s actually Mortimer Graves. Mortimer means “Dead Sea” and Graves means well – graves. And it wasn’t until I had the name that I was able to write the play although the idea for that play – Death having a psychiatrist – came to me late one winter night while I was out walking my dog Zeke and a little voice in my head just whispered, “What if death had a psychiatrist.” It was several years later before I actually sat down and wrote that play and that was the first play I wrote on my current journey as a playwright.
For Written in Stone the choice as far as character names go was made for me because I chose to dramatize the story by using existing characters from Christian mythology including Gabriel, Michael, and Lucifer and of course the big guy himself – God. The thing is I’ve played around a bit with who these characters are in order to make it more entertaining and surprising for the audience.
HEATHER
How is writing a 10-minute play different than writing a full-length play? What are the unique challenges you face?
JAMES
Written in Stone wasn’t a ten-minute play. It’s actually a half-hour play cut down to ten minutes. Here’s one of the cut lines from the longer version of the play, “What were you doing standing in line squeezing the pumpernickel?” I love that line. Out of context, it sounds ridiculous. So, I don’t always write with the intention of writing a ten-minute play. Sometimes I do. Sometimes I don’t. The reason I cut Written in Stone down to ten minutes is simply because there are so many ten-minute play contests out there and I want my work to be produced and seen.
JAMES
For a lot of years, I worked as a commercial writer/producer so I’m used to telling stories in thirty seconds. Advertising is all about storytelling. It’s about connecting a particular product or service to your target audience emotionally and the best way to do that is through a story that illustrates the qualities the product possesses. That’s the first truth of marketing and advertising. The product actually has to deliver on the promise. Take Tim Horton’s for example. They’ve had a terrible fall from grace as a Canadian icon because they are no longer what they were. They’ve finally degraded the product to a point where they’ve lost the loyalty of their clients. In fact, I want to write a short play about it called Glory Days where we have these two Canucks talking about the glory days of Tim Hortons where they’re reminiscing about when Tim Hortons used to make the donuts in store and how amazing they were. On a personal note, my favourite Tim Hortons pastry was the walnut crunch. It was this heavy cake dough with icing and nuts, and it was awesome. And then the company that owned Wendy’s bought Tim’s and that was the first round of cutting quality and they brought out this revamped version of the walnut crunch that didn’t have the same texture, flavour, or feel of the original and was kind of spongy and light and of course, it failed. Last year Tim Hortons went from the fourth-best brand in Canada to fiftieth, but it’s been a decline that’s been in the works for a couple of decades. And now I’m thinking maybe this is a time travel story and we have these two Canuck scientists who are determined to travel back in time to get a walnut crunch and a double-double and relive the glory days of Tim’s.
That whole rant was simply to say that I worked for a long time in an industry where you had twenty-five seconds and sometimes less to tell a story so ten minutes is a huge amount of time. You can cover a lot and what I really like about the ten-minute format is that you don’t always have to tell a conventional story – you can explore a mood or a question. It’s like music. An individual song might not tell a story but it might paint a particular image and speak about the human experience on some level. I think short play formats have the power to do that as well and something that might be boring in a two-act structure might really be fascinating and compelling in ten minutes. The thing is you have to create some sort of satisfactory experience for your audience so they feel satisfied and engaged. When you work on a longer work then you need layers, so whereas a short play might be akin in some ways to a pop song a long play could very much be compared to a classical concert. So, in a full-length play, you dramatically explore a particular question and in a classical concert, you explore a particular melody with all kinds of variations.
HEATHER
What do you hope that audiences will take away from seeing Written In Stone?
JAMES
I hope they laugh. My favourite quote of all time is from George Bernard Shaw. “Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.” To me, satire and comedy are wonderful tools for holding up a mirror to our hypocrisy and lies. I’ve always liked comedy and satire and one of my favourite films is Dr. Strangelove or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb by Stanley Kubrick starring Peter Sellers and George C Scott, and it’s all about the insanity of living in a world where we live minutes away from Global nuclear annihilation. The first time I saw the film was at an Arthouse here in Calgary called the Plaza theatre, and it was when Ronald Reagan was sabre rattling, and the USSR was burning its way through elderly communist party leaders, and so tensions were high between the two superpowers, and we were living with jets in the air ready to respond to a nuclear threat within minutes. And this is just an insane way to live, but the fact that we live in this insanity is what makes the film so tremendously funny. And now with Putin, a couple of years ago threatening to rearm his nuclear arsenal and the potential of another arms race being bantered about I have to say the film is as relevant if not more relevant today. And so, with my little play, I’m asking people to think about the ten commandments and what they say and examine them based on what we’ve learned about our world and our place in it. So, yes I want people to laugh, but I think if they want to go out after the play and have a pint and play God and discuss what laws their ten commandments would contain I think they’d have a terrific discussion about what is truly important in life and what if any are the guiding principles we should live by.
HEATHER
Are you working on a new piece now and if so, would you like to talk about it?
JAMES
I don’t talk about new work until after the first draft is finished and it’s sat in a drawer for some time and then come out for a polish. I find if I talk about an unfinished piece of work the feedback I get takes me down the wrong path. Now for other people – they thrive from feedback. They love to take ten pages and share them. Me, I don’t work that way. In fact, nothing kills my idea quicker than getting the wrong feedback. It sabotages my creative process because I can’t unhear what I’ve heard. So, my advice is, if you’re like me, don’t share your work before it’s finished. That’s the same advice Stephen King gives in his book On Writing which I read back in 2010 when I began this playwriting journey and have reread several times since.
Having said that I’m in the process of finishing a new two-act comedy called Under the Mistletoe. These were originally two one-act plays that I’ve combined into one full-length play. And this is a good example of a play that’s had a long journey to completion. Early drafts of some of this work go back to 2011. It’s come in and out of the drawer several times and even had a couple of workshops. The second act worked fine, but I’d had some feedback on the first act and it took me in a direction where the story died. And it’s been dead ever since. I kept trying to rewrite the first act, over the years, but I could never get it to work. I’d lost the spark – the thing that gave it life, and no matter what I did I couldn’t get it back. Well a few months ago I thought I’d try again, and I pulled the play out of the drawer, and I decided to rename the characters, and once I gave the characters new names it made the play feel fresh and I was able to give it a complete rewrite and recapture the magic that had been there when I originally wrote the play.
JAMES
Basically, it’s similar to Neil Simon’s Plaza Suite. The play takes place in one hotel, but each act is a different story with different characters. I also wanted to write a play about characters in their fifties because I’m in my fifties and life is very different now that time is short.
The play takes place at Christmas thus the name – Under the Mistletoe. In act one there’s a character named Mike Riley who’s unemployed, divorced, and living in his brother’s basement. So, he’s a little depressed especially because he’s spending the holidays in the Gingerbread Suite at the Prairie Dog Inn Regina. But then he meets Claire McKenzie and they spent a romantic night together and Mike thinks his luck is finally starting to change so On Christmas Eve he purchases the Two Turtle Doves Holiday Romance Gift Basket and hopes to make his relationship with Claire more than a one-night stand.
Then in act two, I have Harvey Swanson and Nancy Potter who have been friends for years but after they kiss in a movie theatre during the ending credit of Casablanca they decide to try and make their friendship a romantic one. So, they book the Candy Cane Suite at the Prairie Dog Inn Regina for a romantic rendezvous. The only problem is Harvey is having a tough time getting over the death of his wife and he feels guilty about being with another woman. So, the big question is will Harvey and Nancy become lovers or will these new romantic feelings and Harvey’s reluctance to let go of the past end their friendship?
That’s going to be up on my website come January.
Otherwise, I’ve got a huge amount of rewriting to do and I’ve been spending a lot of time working on my blog and interviewing other playwrights, actors, and directors. I love doing the blog because I’ve always liked to learn about people and what drives them. I have a degree in sociology and had considered becoming an archaeologist when I was younger, but my life took a different path. Still, I’m interested in people and society and why we do what we do and live as we do. Sociology, archaeology, and playwriting are all just different aspects of exploring humanity.
And if you’re interested in reading up on Brand Rankings from 2018 see the link below to the Maclean’s article on Tim Hortons. Just on a side note this year Tim Horton’s was ranked 33rd. Still a long way from the position they once held and not the place you’d expect such an iconic Canadian brand. Although, is it really Canadian any longer and has it really been Canadian for some time?
“Last year, Tim Hortons reputational brand ranking plummeted from 4th place among Canadians in 2016 to 50th, according to Leger. Another survey in 2018, from the Peter B. Gustavson School of Business in Victoria, B.C., found Tims had free fallen to 203rd spot on a brand trust basis, from 27th place a year earlier and number one overall as recently as 2015. It’s a short drive from iconic to notorious, when you’ve driven off a cliff.
The company’s owners since 2014, Restaurant Brands International (RBI), were based in the U.S. before moving the head office to Oakville, Ont., with a further move slated to downtown Toronto. And RBI is backed by Brazilian investors 3G Capital, who are legendary, if not downright notorious, themselves for their love of cost-cutting at the companies they buy.”
Heather Dick – Director Written in Stone
Heather is excited to be directing at the Newmarket National 10 Minute Play Festival for the first time. As a director, actor and voice artist she has worked across the country. Favourite directing credits include: Earth Tourist (Chandlier Factory Prods.), Forgotten Voices (World Premiere), Mail-Order Annie and Streethearts ( Sirius Theatrical Co.), The Art of Listening (Canadian Premier, Southern Mirrors Prods.), La Sante C’est Pas Sorcier (Waterwood Prods. – Ontario Tour), and The Peacemaker (Golden Horseshoe Players). For over 30 years, Heather has coached and taught workshops in acting, comedy and voice for many independent Toronto acting studios. She is also the Founding Artistic Director of the Sirius Theatrical Company (Toronto) where she currently teaches acting and voice and has produced multi-disciplinary performance pieces. Heather Dick is a member of Canadian Actors Equity Association. www.siriustheatrical.com
Stephanie Christiaens in the NNPF 2019 production of Written in Stone by James Hutchison. Directed by Heather Dick. Scenic design, Ellen Brooker. Costume Design, Madeline Ius. Lighting Design, Christopher Pattenden. Photo: Jason Wighton.
Michael Halfin, Artistic & Executive Director Newmarket National Play Festival “I have always been fascinated by the 10-minute format. I find it exciting and I had my senior students write 10-minute scripts for production every year. I came to see that this was a format akin to the studies visual artists do before they explore a concept on a larger canvas. Playwrights such as ‘Tennessee Williams and William Inge explored these short versions of plays before they expanded them into full-length scripts. So, what is wonderful about the format, is that it is an invitation for EVERYONE to write. For EVERYONE to have a voice because it’s a format wherein even the novice playwright can find success.”
Heather Dick, Director Written in Stone“For me, one of the themes the play explores is the traditional corporate structure and goals such as getting the corner office and the expense account at the cost of perhaps personal integrity and values. Changing the genders allows us to question how women have perhaps succumbed to following these traditions in order to take their place in the business world both as employee and owner. I’m hoping that an all-female cast will start people talking about and questioning female roles and power within a corporate structure, especially as God is presented as a woman.”
I’m very excited to announce that for the second year in a row I have a play being produced in the Newmarket National 10 Minute Play Festival. Last year my drama Valentine’s Day which is a story about a recently widowed old man named Tom remembering the day fifty years ago when he met the love of his life, Heather, was part of the festival. This year my short comedy, Written in Stone, which is about the creation of the Ten Commandments is one of twenty-four new plays being premiered from Monday, July 22nd to Sunday, July 28th. The NNPF is a festival dedicated to Canadian plays and the diverse voices of this country and takes place forty minutes north of Toronto in Newmarket Ontario.
Download Play Script
It took Charlton Heston, Cecile B Demille, and Hollywood $122,000,000 million dollars, adjusted for inflation, and 220 minutes to tell a story I can tell in 10 minutes with a much smaller cast and budget. Of course, I didn’t really cover the part of the story where Moses is set adrift as a baby into the reeds and grows up as a son of Pharaoh, and I didn’t deal that much with the 10 plagues, although I mention it, and the Exodus doesn’t really appear in my version of the story although it obviously happened because Moses is heading up Mt Sinai to get the commandments and he had to cross the Red Sea in order to get there.
The plays are grouped into four themed Pods with six plays being presented in each Pod. Tickets are just twenty bucks per Pod and each Pod is presented four times during the festival. Written in Stone which is part of the “you|TURN” Pod tells the story, as mentioned before, about the creation of the Ten Commandments but it’s also about the reason man was given a soul, and how Lucifer ended up in hell. The production is being directed by Heather Dick and stars Bridget Bezanson as Michael, Meredith Busteed as Lucifer, Stephanie Christiaens as Gabriel, and Alexia Vassos as God. Other plays in the “you TURN” Pod include Running Low by Jessica Ayana-May where a misty morning jog along a mountain trail leads to a disturbing discovery and Penance by Peter Genoway where the un-cloistered truth leads two nuns into conflict. This pod is suitable for most ages and is described as: “When travelling the winding road, it’s hard to see the curve that lies ahead.”
If your tastes run a little more mature you might want to see the “end|RUN” Pod which has plays dealing with mature themes, and contains adult language, and violence. This Pod includes Plus ça change by Genevieve Adam where a royal romping rumpus disrupts the king’s court and Not Going Nowhere by Natalie Frijia where more than a house is reduced to ashes as the fire rages on. This Pod is described as: “If the end is inevitable, why didn’t we know that from the beginning?”
The third Pod called “stand|OUT” includes a story about a lonely woman who hopes a furnace repairman can restart her pilot light in a play by Jerri Jerreat called Seducing Harry and Nothing but the Tooth by Jody McColman which is an incisive story about a cash transaction that goes hilariously awry. This Pod is suitable for most ages and its description reads: “Sometimes, a door isn’t locked; It’s just stuck in place.
“Life belongs to the living, and he who lives must be prepared for changes.” That’s the description of Pod number four: “after|LIFE”. Plays include Dispatch by Andrew G. Cooper about a 911 operator coping with the unceasing trauma of the job and Like a Kite by Ron Fromstein where the traditional family dinner goes up in smoke in this half-baked comedy. This pod is intended for a mature audience as it contains disturbing scenes and deals with mature themes and language.
A few weeks ago, I did an interview with Michael Halfin the Artistic and Executive Director of the Newmarket National Play Festival to talk with him about this year’s festival and his thoughts about the importance of Art as well as an interview with the director of my play Heather Dick.
Michael Halfin – Founder, Artistic and Executive Director Newmarket National Play Festival
JAMES HUTCHISON
This is year three of the festival and it continues to grow. What have you retained from the past two years and what have you added or improved on the festival for this year?
MICHAEL HALFIN
I am very excited about our partnership with the Newmarket Group of Artists. We explored the idea of combining a visual arts interpretation of our pod themes in year one with some success but went another direction last year. This year, we’ve returned with more lead time to the idea of the art exhibition, and I’m thrilled that we have close to 50 pieces linked to our four themes. We are offering guided tours of “NGA-EXPLORE” that focus on the theme of one pod at a time. Patrons explore a theme—like after|LIFE—as a visual art experience, then they go up and see the performance art exploration of that same theme.
JAMES
So, every year the festival selects twenty-four plays and you put those plays into four individual pods that are focused on particular themes. And last year you told me you don’t “theme” the festival and people can write about whatever they want, but what you’ve discovered is that playwrights are attuned to the Zeitgeist and seem to write around particular themes on any given year anyway so the plays seem to naturally group around particular themes and that seems to indicate that playwrights are responding to issues and events of the time, and so I’m wondering what do you think the themes at this year’s festival tell us about what’s on people’s and playwrights minds?
MICHAEL
That, sir, is a great question. I don’t want to be too pinned down on that one because we collocate words as pod themes. That is, a pod like After|Life can be read and interpreted in many different ways such as: Someone is after your life which is threatening; the afterlife we know from our faith systems; the pursuit of happiness and people’s dissatisfaction with their life as it is because it seems like people are chasing after the life they think they deserve rather than the life they are living; a new reality such as climate change means we are now living life after a change from the way we’ve always lived it. And that’s as much as I’m going to give you because if I deconstruct the various interpretations of each pod theme, I’m ruining the fun for the playgoer. And, in any case, there’s the after-show talks where people can explore how the pod theme applied to each of the six plays in it.
JAMES
Over the last few years, I’ve entered a lot of ten-minute festivals and they’re not all equal in terms of their treatment of writers and artists. One of the things I really appreciate and like about the NNPF is the amount of exposure and support and professionalism you offer the winning playwrights and participating artists. You put a biography online for all the playwrights, directors, actors, and production staff with links back to their websites if they have one. You promote the festival as well as individual playwrights and artists through your social media including Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. You are a Canadian Actors’ Equity Association production under the Festival Policy. You offer playwrights that can come to the festival an opportunity to do a public reading from another work. Plus, and this is a big plus, all playwrights receive a royalty for the production of their plays. To me, you really set the standard for what a 10-minute play festival should be especially when asking to premiere new work. I’m curious, how did you arrive at this vision and decide this was the way you wanted to produce the festival?
MICHAEL
Wow. You’re forcing me to put as much thought into my answers as you are putting into your questions. I guess this idea had been growing in my mind for many years. As the Coordinator of the Regional Arts Program at Huron Heights Secondary School, I wanted kids to know what Canadian Culture is. To that end, I conceived what we called the Canadian Play Festival, which I ran for 25 years and the school is still producing to this day. In any given year, we produced 6-7 Canadian Plays. I would order 60 or so scripts a year from Playwrights Canada for student directors to comb through and select what we should produce. I am proud to say that Playwrights Canada told me that Huron Heights had the largest library of Canadian plays in the country.
I have always been fascinated by the 10-minute format. I find it exciting and I had my senior students write 10-minute scripts for production every year. I came to see that this was a format akin to the studies visual artists do before they explore a concept on a larger canvas. Playwrights such as Tennessee Williams and William Inge explored these short versions of plays before they expanded them into full-length scripts. So, what is wonderful about the format, is that it is an invitation for EVERYONE to write. For EVERYONE to have a voice because it’s a format wherein even the novice playwright can find success.
Table work and Rehearsals for this year’s National Newmarket 10 Minute Play Festival. Photo Jason Wighton.
JAMES
The arts would not exist without partnerships and support from the community, local business, and governments. I think the success of your festival indicates you’ve spent the time and energy to develop and nurture those partnerships. How did you go about creating those partnerships and what do your partners get out of participating and supporting the festival?
MICHAEL
I couldn’t ask for more from our principal partner, The Town of Newmarket. We had our table read on Tuesday, July 2nd and the Mayor and half of the town councillors came out to welcome the 24 companies. How do I get that kind of buy-in? I honestly don’t know. I just believe that we can do things in better and different ways than people have done before, and others seem to want to ride along on this dream. But, honestly, it’s very hard work. It’s 365 days a year, it’s—literally—walking up and down the same street dozens of times to talk to people, thousands and thousands of emails and phone calls, and pitching, pitching, pitching. My dad was a salesman and when he retired, my mother wanted me to take over his business. I said, “No, mom, sorry, I’m not a salesman.” I realize, now, that I am very much my father’s son. He said to me once, “Michael, you can’t sell anyone something they really don’t want to buy.”
JAMES
You often hear people question the value of arts and yet music surrounds us. We hang paintings on our wall. We watch television. We go to movies and music festivals. And many of us paint and play instruments and write fanfiction or poetry. So, we are surrounded by art and consume art on a daily basis. To remove art would be to remove much of what gives life value and meaning. Because it’s a national play festival how do you think the NNPF contributes to the artistic and cultural life of our country?
MICHAEL
Another great question and I’m not going to give you a cliché answer. I spent 35 years as a drama educator and the last 20 of those as a very vocal arts advocate. You’d think that the point you’ve made here is obvious—why wouldn’t the “Everyman” realize what a huge consumer of arts and culture he really is? Well, do we actually have to concentrate on breathing, or do we just autonomically do it? Well, that’s the arts. We breathe it in and out and don’t realize how it sustains us and is the life’s breath that permeates our collective consciousness. That’s why the NNPF, through the art exhibition, the director/actor talk back sessions, the pints with the playwrights, the staged readings of plays we are helping to develop from 10 minutes to full-length scripts, the playwriting workshops, and of course, the playwright readings are all about connecting the artists with their audience and the audience with their artists. We have 16 of 24 playwrights coming to the festival this year and many of them, as you can see from their biographies, come from all over Canada. Whether it be Newfoundland or B.C, our regions shape our views. Those regional voices come together here, and I feel, help us articulate what it means to find our unity in our diversity.
JAMES
Last year you told me a little bit about your vision for the future of the festival so I’m curious about where you’re at with your vision of expanding the festival to go beyond the ten-minute play?
MICHAEL
Well, as I just referenced, we are taking two scripts that were introduced at last year’s festival and are performing them as staged readings with two performances each on July 22 and 23. One show, in particular, has had a lot of dramaturgical support from us and the playwright has told me that the script has grown enormously through the process. My guess is our next step will be to do full productions on plays like this as either an adjunct to the summer festival or as part of a winter season.
JAMES
Okay, so my play in this year’s festival is more or less a discussion about the Law of God and what those laws should be. If you had the power to add a commandment to God’s Law what would it be? What do you think is a good guiding principle for mankind? And just so you know it can be serious or otherwise. My own favourite unserious but highly beneficial commandment would be, don’t forget to floss.
MICHAEL
Yes, I do have an 11th commandment, and I’m quite serious about it. It is, “Thou shalt not be mediocre.” I find wayyy too many people are satisfied with doing the minimum; that, well, that’s good enough. Nothing is ever good enough. Luisa, a character in The Fantasticks, exclaims, “Oh, God. Oh please. Don’t let me be normal!” That’s the point. Don’t be normal—be excellent!
JAMES
Final thoughts? Anything you want to add?
MICHAEL
I really appreciate your kind words about how we respect the work of the artists who participate in NNPF. This is a place where you will find respect and the freedom to create.
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Actors, directors, and designers all make significant contributions to bringing a play to life and no two productions are ever going to be the same so it’s always fun to get a chance to talk with the people putting your work before an audience. I asked Heather Dick, the director of my play a bit about her own theatre company as well as some questions about working on Written In Stone.
JAMES HUTCHISON
Heather, you’re the founding Artistic Director of the Sirius Theatrical Company. Tell me a little bit about the company and how it started and what type of theatre you generally produce?
HEATHER DICK
I founded the company in 1989 because I was interested in creating theatrical performances and working on roles that inspired and challenged me in ways that I wasn’t being cast at the time. As is often the case, I was frustrated with the roles I was being offered and wanted to work on darker material and themes and to experiment with a variety of styles of theatre including traditional, site-specific, and others that would leave audiences questioning traditional perspectives. Founding the Sirius Theatrical Company gave me the opportunity to experiment and work in non-traditional ways. Now, the shows that I produce are very connected to the community in which I live and work and incorporate themes and issues that are relevant to the people who live here.
JAMES
Have you found that the themes or types of the plays you produce now compared to when you started the company are different and if so why and if not – why do you think that would be?
HEATHER
When I first began producing, I wanted to focus primarily on Canadian work and as much as possible new work. Since early 2006 I have produced large scale multi-disciplinary performance pieces that incorporate photography, dance, music and poetry as well as traditional scene work. I’ve also written several of the pieces, which I’ve very much enjoyed doing and which has sparked my work as a playwright. This work is very connected to issues that are specific to the community in which the company is located.
Gwyn Beaver, Dan Karpenchuk, Stephen Ingram in Valse Sentimentale (stand|OUT) by Wyatt Lamoureux, Directed by Trevor Curran. Scenic design, Ellen Brooker. Costume Design, Madeline Ius. Lighting Design, Christopher Pattenden. Photo: Jason Wighton
JAMES
You’re directing two plays in this year’s Newmarket National Play Festival. Buried by Sarah Anne Murphy and my play Written In Stone. Tell me a little bit about what attracted you to these particular plays and why you wanted to tell their stories?
HEATHER
I loved both Buried and Written In Stone the minute I read them. They are as different as can be from each other in style, characters, setting and story, yet both grabbed my heart in different ways.
Buried is a mother/son relationship story and, as you might imagine, touches on so many aspects of the love and ties between a mother and her son. It is bitter, sweet, loving, sometimes pain-filled and sometimes full of joy and happiness. As a mother, I understand how hard and scary it is to let a child fly on their own when all you want to do is, perhaps selfishly, keep them close. As a daughter, I understand the need to be my own person unbound by parental issues and needs. I wanted to share all of this with an audience.
Your play, Written In Stone, had me laughing but also asking myself, “Could this be the way the ten commandments were written? What if……?” I love that it makes me reflect on traditional beliefs while taking place in such a contemporary corporate setting that everyone will be able to relate to the characters, their relationships and the questions it poses. I also love all the humour. I hope that people leave the theatre chatting about it and laughing too.
JAMES
When I originally wrote the play it was about God and three angels working on the ten commandments and it was intended for an all-male cast but for the NNPF we’ve recast the play so that all the parts are being played by women. I’m curious to know if changing genders offered any additional insights or new takes on the themes of the play?
HEATHER
I’d say ‘yes’ and ‘no’.
For me, one of the themes the play explores is the traditional corporate structure and goals such as getting the corner office and the expense account at the cost of perhaps personal integrity and values. Changing the genders allows us to question how women have perhaps succumbed to following these traditions in order to take their place in the business world both as employee and owner. I’m hoping that an all-female cast will start people talking about and questioning female roles and power within a corporate structure, especially as God is presented as a woman.
Written In Stone also looks at traditional stories/beliefs surrounding the creation of the ten commandments and asks us to reflect on whether or not they all still have value and relevance in the world as it is today, as represented by the modern corporate boardroom setting. I think this reflection stands whether the gender of the characters is male or female, so changing the gender doesn’t affect this questioning.
Stephanie Christiaens in the NNPF 2019 production of Written in Stone by James Hutchison. Directed by Heather Dick. Scenic design, Ellen Brooker. Costume Design, Madeline Ius. Lighting Design, Christopher Pattenden. Photo: Jason Wighton.
Bridget Bezanson in the NNPF 2019 production of Written in Stone by James Hutchison. Directed by Heather Dick. Scenic design, Ellen Brooker. Costume Design, Madeline Ius. Lighting Design, Christopher Pattenden. Photo: Jason Wighton.
Bridget Bezanson, Meredith Busteed, Stephanie Christiaens in the NNPF 2019 production of Written in Stone by James Hutchison. Directed by Heather Dick. Scenic design, Ellen Brooker. Costume Design, Madeline Ius. Lighting Design, Christopher Pattenden. Photo: Jason Wighton.
Meredith Busteed in the NNPF 2019 production of Written in Stone by James Hutchison. Directed by Heather Dick. Scenic design, Ellen Brooker. Costume Design, Madeline Ius. Lighting Design, Christopher Pattenden. Photo: Jason Wighton.
JAMES
Okay, so my play in this year’s festival is more or less a discussion about the Law of God and what those laws should be. If you had the power to add a commandment to God’s Law what would it be? What do you think is a good guiding principle for mankind? And just so you know it can be serious or otherwise. My own favourite unserious but highly beneficial commandment would be, don’t forget to floss.
HEATHER
Find a moment of laughter in everything you do.
The Last House (after|LIFE) by Andrew Paulsen. Photo: Jason Wighton
JAMES
What have been some of your discussions with the cast about the play and its story and themes?
HEATHER
I’m delighted with the cast. Everyone is bringing a sense of humour and play to both the rehearsals and the production. Bridget Bezanson is playing Michael, Meredith Busteed is Lucifer, Stephanie Christiaens is Gabriel and Alexia Vassos is God. Our wonderful stage manager is Ashley Frederick who keeps all organized and on time with a light and caring touch. To date, our discussions have focussed on character relationships – employee to employee, employee to boss, and jealousy – which are all relevant to many of the commandments and how we treat our fellow human beings.
JAMES
So, I asked Michael the same question, you often hear people question the value of arts and yet music surrounds us. We hang paintings on our wall. We watch television. We go to movies and music festivals. And many of us paint and play instruments and write fanfiction or poetry. So, we are surrounded by art and consume art on a daily basis. To remove art would be to remove much of what gives life value and meaning. I was wondering what you felt arts in general and the Newmarket National play festival specifically contributes to the artistic and cultural life of our country?
HEATHER
The Festival is a gift to the actors, directors, and production crew who have an opportunity to create and learn in a generous and supportive environment. For our country, it is building a stronger Canadian cultural voice.
DIRECTOR, CAST, and STAGE MANAGER
WRITTEN IN STONE
Heather Dick – Director
Heather is excited to be directing at the Newmarket National 10 Minute Play Festival for the first time. As a director, actor and voice artist she has worked across the country. Favourite directing credits include: Earth Tourist (Chandlier Factory Prods.), Forgotten Voices (World Premiere), Mail-Order Annie and Streethearts ( Sirius Theatrical Co.), The Art of Listening (Canadian Premier, Southern Mirrors Prods.), La Sante C’est Pas Sorcier (Waterwood Prods. – Ontario Tour), and The Peacemaker (Golden Horseshoe Players). For over 30 years, Heather has coached and taught workshops in acting, comedy and voice for many independent Toronto acting studios. She is also the Founding Artistic Director of the Sirius Theatrical Company (Toronto) where she currently teaches acting and voice and has produced multi-disciplinary performance pieces. Heather Dick is a member of Canadian Actors Equity Association. www.siriustheatrical.com
Bridget Bezanson – Buried, Seducing Harry, Written in Stone
Bridget is excited for her third summer with the Newmarket National 10 Minute Play Festival. She is an actor and classically trained singer with credits in regional theatre throughout Ontario and Atlantic Canada. Favourite performances include Funeral Sandwiches (NNPF), Rockbound (Two Planks and a Passion), Love You Forever (Stirling Festival), No Way to Treat a Lady (Festival Antigonish), and Annie (Neptune Theatre). Other credits include voice work in radio drama and animation (CBC), radio commercials, and narration. A versatile vocalist, Bridget has recently performed at corporate events for Manulife and Shoppers Drug Mart, and performs regularly as a soloist and band singer. Bridget Bezanson is a member of Canadian Actors Equity Association. www.bridgetbezanson.com
Meredith Busteed – Secret Santa, Written in Stone
Meredith is thrilled to be joining The Newmarket National Ten Minute Play Festival this summer. She is a music theatre performer with credits in regional theatre throughout Southern Ontario and the United Kingdom. Favourite performances include The Wizard of Oz (Diversified Theatre), 9 to 5 The Musical (Edinburgh Fringe Festival), Assassins (RCS), Up the River (Thousand Islands Playhouse), Anne in Anne of Green Gables (MMT), and Mary in Mary’s Wedding (Theatre Kingston). Other credits include commercials with Rogers (Next Issue), Anti-mean tweets campaign (Sportsnet). A versatile performer, Meredith has also dedicated her career to teaching private voice, musical theatre and dance to the next generation of artists. @mabusteed
Stephanie Christiaens – Like a Kite, Written in Stone
Steph is excited to be making her debut at the Newmarket National 10 Minute Play Festival! She has been performing around Southwestern Ontario for over 20 Years and recently made her professional debut last summer at the Lighthouse Festival Theatre in Port Dover in Stage Fright. Favourite performances include The Day They Shot John Lennon (Players’ Guild of Hamilton), Noises Off! (Dundas Little Theatre), The Whores (Stage 88), Key For Two (The Aldershot Players), and Don’t Misunderstand Me (Act 4 Productions). Other credits include TV commercials (CTV London), independent film productions (Post-Life Productions), and reporting for Rogers Local access network.
Alexia Vassos – Nothing but the Tooth, Secret Santa, Written in Stone
Alexia is delighted to be involved with the Newmarket National 10 Minute Play Festival for the very first time. She is a recent graduate from the Theatre and Drama Studies program at the University of Toronto Mississauga and Sheridan College. Alexia’s credits include: Olga in Three Sisters (Theatre Erindale), Silenus/Therapist/Baucis in Metamorphoses (Theatre Erindale) and Maria in Twelfth Night (Theatre Erindale).
Ashley Frederick – Stage Manager
Ashley is thrilled to be participating in the Newmarket National 10 Minute Play Festival for her first time! Recent stage management credits include The Teeny Tiny Music Show (Hamilton Fringe, 2016), This Is War (York University, 2016) R.E.M. (York University, 2017), and InspiraTO Festival- Blue Show (2017). Ashley is also a performer, director, deviser, and founding member of Atomic Oddity Productions, whose first show After George premiered this year at the Devised Theatre Festival, and the Theatre Centre. Ashley will be graduating from York University’s Theatre program with a specialization in Devised Theatre in January 2020.
“I guess the other thing that I love so much about our industry is the amazing people who have all, for better or for worse, made this decision to become a part of this crazy thing that we do. And they give their hearts, and their souls, and their blood, and their sweat, and their tears, and we all have our crazy stories about the crazy hours and the hard work and all of the things that go into making theatre, but at the end of the day we get each other, and we come together in this almost spiritual way and support each other and make something beautiful – and then it’s gone. It’s like poof, and it’s gone, and I just love that – I love the temporary nature of what we do. And sometimes it’s heartbreaking, but it’s a big part of what I love about theatre.”
Samantha MacDonald has been a part of the Canadian theatre scene for thirty years and has spent a substantial part of that time as both a director and theatre administrator. She was the Co-Founder and Co-Artistic Producer of Project X Theatre Productions in Kamloops BC from 2004 to 2010 and was the Artistic Producer of Theatre North West in Prince George BC from 2010 to 2014, and for the last five years she’s been a vital part of the Lunchbox Theatre team. MacDonald joined Lunchbox in 2014 as the Production and Operations Manager and then became the Associate Artistic Producer from 2015 to 2017 and for the last two years she’s been leading the company as the Artistic Producer.
In addition to her administrative and arts leadership work, she’s an accomplished director having directed several Shakespeare plays including, Two Gentlemen of Verona, The Tempest, and Hamlet for Project X and more recently As You Like It for Shakespeare by the Bow. She’s also directed several contemporary plays including To Dream Again for Storybook Theatre and several productions for Lunchbox Theatre including the very touching and poignant Flight Risk by Meg Braem, the smart and complex In On It by Daniel MacIvor and the very funny and successful Guttenberg! The Musical! which was the final play in the 2018/19 Lunchbox Theatre season.
I sat down with Samantha to talk with her about her love of theatre, Lunchbox, and her plans for the future.
JAMES HUTCHISON
So, I’ve listened to and read other interviews with you and sometimes you’ll say, “Oh dear, I’ve gotten on my soapbox about theatre.” But I want to hear you on your soapbox. I want to hear what it is you love about theatre. What is it?
SAMANTHA MACDONALD
Oh God, how long do you have? (Laughs) There are a number of things, but I think the first thing I fell in love with about this medium and what we do is just telling a great story. It’s the opportunity to put a bunch of people together in a room and touch them emotionally and to allow them all to feel something and to connect to something in a way you can not do in any other medium. Live theatre is the one place where we all share something so visceral and engaging in one space and we all experience it together at the same time, and part of that experience is how we respond together in a dark space to whatever we’re watching. And I love that.
David Balser, Desiree Maher-Schley, Danielle Dunn-Morris, and Ryan Egan in the 2006 Project X Production of Elizabeth Rex. Directed by Samantha MacDonald
SAMANTHA
Two weekends ago I had the great pleasure of adjudicating the Provincial High School Drama Festival in Red Deer, and my partner in crime was designer Anton de Groot, and one of the things he talked a lot about in his adjudications was exactly that and how on stage you are able to do things that you can’t do on film in terms of engaging an audience. So, you can take a piece of fabric that was once a parachute and turn it into waves or into a mountain or whatever, and the audience goes with you on that journey, and I love how you can tell a story in such an incredible way that maybe you would never have imagined.
And I guess the other thing that I love so much about our industry is the amazing people who have all, for better or for worse, made this decision to become a part of this crazy thing that we do. And they give their hearts, and their souls, and their blood, and their sweat, and their tears, and we all have our crazy stories about the crazy hours and the hard work and all of the things that go into making theatre, but at the end of the day we get each other, and we come together in this almost spiritual way and support each other and make something beautiful – and then it’s gone. It’s like poof, and it’s gone, and I just love that – I love the temporary nature of what we do. And sometimes it’s heartbreaking, but it’s a big part of what I love about theatre.
Creator and performer Michelle Thrush in Inner Elder, co-presented with One Yellow Rabbit as a part of the High Performance Rodeo. Photo Credit: Benjamin Laird
JAMES
When did you decide to go into this profession?
SAMANTHA
When I was in elementary school I was an actor, and I’m not an actor now, and I never ever will be, but I was an actor in elementary school and I loved it. I loved being on stage. I was Sir Joseph Porter in H.M.S. Pinafore. I was Tiny Tim in Christmas Carol. I did all these things and as I got a little older I used to see shows whether it was my sister in a high school production or whatever, and when I would watch theatre there was always this hole in my chest that I could never explain and that I never understood, but I would watch theatre, and I would just have this kind of pain.
After high school I decided I was going to be a corporate lawyer and work for Coca Cola, and because I’d worked on a couple of theatre productions in high school I took a technical theatre class my first year of college, and the second day of this class we went to the Sagebrush Theatre, which is where we would do most of our learning in Kamloops, and I walked into the theatre, and I stood on the stage, and that hole I had been feeling went fwump. And I went, “I’m never going to be a corporate lawyer.” (Laughs) And that was it. The joy of this medium just filled that empty space in me and I was in love. And you know, here we are thirty years later and I still love it. I still absolutely love it. And whatever that hole in me was it never reopened. It went away that day and it’s never come back.
First day of full costume for the 2010 Project X production of The Rocky Horror Picture Show. Director Samantha MacDonald and her assistant director dress up to show solidarity and support for the cast.
JAMES
Let’s talk a little bit about the unique story of Lunchbox because lunch-time theatre was a big thing in the seventies. I was doing a little research about it and I was reading that in London you could see great actors like Bob Hoskins on stage, and interestingly enough there does seem to be a bit of a resurgence of lunchtime theatre going on now, but a lot of the original theatres have disappeared. So, what do you think it is about Lunchbox – because Lunchbox has had good times and tough times and it’s still here – what do you think it is about this theatre company that has made it possible to last for forty-five years?
SAMANTHA
I think there are a few things. I think the organization has always been very good at listening to its audience, and I think we’ve done very well over that large span of time of making sure that we are growing and changing with what our audience needs and wants. And our audience as a result of that has trusted us, and so even when we offer them something that’s maybe a little more challenging or a little different than they’re used to they will go on that journey with us because they trust us and what we’re giving them.
Devon Dubnyk and Arielle Rombough in the 2018 Lunchbox Theatre production of It’s a Wonderful Life: A Live Radio Play, adapted by Joe Landry. Photo credit: Benjamin Laird
SAMANTHA
And I think there’s something really lovely in terms of being able to come for an hour and eat your lunch and watch great entertainment and then go away again. You know it’s a great story, but it’s not a huge commitment, and I think that’s something – particularly in our day and age – that a bite-sized bit of theatre is a great way for people to connect. It’s also, if you’re new to theatre, a really nice way to check it out without a huge commitment.
JAMES
Looking at this last season what have been some of the highlights for you at Lunchbox?
SAMANTHA
One of the big highlights for us was the opportunity to premiere a brand-new musical which we commissioned from a young local playwright. Emily Dallas is incredibly talented and a lovely young woman and so to have an opportunity to say to her, “I want you to write a piece of theatre and these are the parameters I need you to write within,” and then for her to come back with a piece like Brave Girl, which was our Remembrance show was really exciting, and our hope is she’ll be able to take it and expand it beyond a one act.
Elinor Holt, Jessica Eckstadt, and Tara Jackson in the 2018 production of Brave Girl by Emily Dallas. Photo credit: Benjamin Laird
JAMES
How did you two connect?
SAMANTHA
I directed Emily in As You Like It for Shakespeare by the Bow a couple of summers ago, and for one of her audition pieces she sat down at the piano in the Theatre Calgary rehearsal hall and played this beautiful song she’d written about a young person’s struggle in high school and about being your own hero. And by the end of the song, both Susan McNair Reid and I were in tears and then having worked with her all summer long I had a strong sense of both her ideals as a theatre creator and also her talents as an artist. I mean, I would say I took a risk, but it wasn’t really a risk, because I knew she would come up with the goods.
JAMES
Brave Girl is, as you mentioned, a one-act play and Lunchbox does one-act plays. What is it you’re looking for when you select a one-act play for your season? What jumps out at you?
SAMANTHA
It has to have heart. The content and story arch can be about anything, but at the end of the day what we know is that our audiences really connect with and are engaged with stories that have heart. And by that I mean it has to be a piece that connects to our audience in a positive emotional way so whether it’s something that affirms their beliefs, or something that reminds them that there is good in the world, or something that takes them on a journey – at the end of their sixty minutes with us – even if it’s a dark piece – even if it’s a piece that takes them to a place that’s more challenging – it still, at the end of the day, leaves them feeling better off than they did when they arrived.
So, for example, I directed In on It by Daniel MacIvor which was a challenging piece for our audience because it was nonlinear, and it was darker, and there was a character who died in it, and it was about dealing with grief and death, but I think our audience really liked being engaged in those ways. And in Brave Girl there’s the story of these two sisters and their struggles and how it tears them apart, and then of course at the end it puts them back together again, and it’s also the story of the mother who loses her spouse, and then she watches this rift develop between her two children, and it’s her journey as well, and so Brave Girl has lots and lots of heart in it.
Mark Bellamy and Stafford Perry in the 2016 Lunchbox Theatre production of In On It by Daniel MacIvor. Photo Credit: Benjamin Laird
JAMES
Let’s talk a little bit about the season coming up. I’m curious, as an artistic producer, how do you balance your artistic vision with the business realities of running a theatre?
SAMANTHA
Well I mean obviously, as you know, financially it’s always a huge challenge, so when I was programming the 18/19 season, which is just wrapping up, part of what I was really aware of was that we needed to try and find a way to balance things financially in order for us to survive. So part of that was bringing in some shows because they tend to cost a little less, but I was really adamant that moving forward we were going to find a way to get back to producing more local work and hiring more local artists for our 45th season.
And in terms of programming, I always listen to the kinds of things my audience is saying, and I’m always looking at the things that do well for us and what people are talking about. And I suspect over the years we’ve lessened the number of actors over the course of our season so for us a big show is six. It’s a Wonderful Life was a six-person show and that was massive for us, but we also knew that show would sell really well so at the end of the day it wasn’t a risk. People really love the Remembrance show and the Christmas show, and so it is a bit of a challenge in terms of continuing to find new works that fit into both of those two categories.
Selina Wong in the 2016 Lunchbox Theatre Production Lest We Forget, created by JP Thibodeau and Joe Slabe. Photo credit: Benjamin Laird
JAMES
You’re doing Last Christmas by Neil Fleming next year and I was wondering how you arrived at that play as the right choice for next season?
SAMANTHA
I was looking for a Christmas show, and I went back over our history, and we had decided as a team that for our 45th season we wanted to look back in order to look forward a little bit. So with the Remembrance show and the Christmas show we said, “Okay, let’s look back at some of the stuff we’ve done in the past.” And Last Christmas had gone through our Stage One Festival, and it had an original production that had done very well for us, and now here we are ten years later and I think it’s a relevant family story with heart.
JAMES
And it’s funny. Even though it deals with some very serious issues like cancer it’s actually very humourous.
SAMANTHA
It is yeah. And it has that family connection between grandkids and grandparents which I think is relevant, and that’s a connection we don’t see a lot on stage. So, it’s nice to have that multi-generational story. And then similarly we picked Flanders Fields for this year’s Remembrance show because it was our very first Remembrance show that we did and it did really well for us. It also came through Stage One and it has a very clear affiliation with us as an organization, and it’s another moment of looking back to look forward.
Miles Ringsred Riley and Karen Johnson-Diamond in the 2011 Lunchbox Theatre production of Last Christmas by Neil Flemming. Photo credit: Tim Nguyen
JAMES
You’ve also got a world premiere coming up called Old Man the Napi Project can you tell me a little bit about that?
SAMANTHA
Yes, and that won’t be the real title that’s just the working title. So, Justin Many Fingers and I connected about this time last year, and we started to talk about what we can do and one of the things we’re going to do is have an artist in residence program. So, the intention is to take an Indigenous artist and offer them the opportunity to devise a brand-new show under Justin’s mentorship under the auspices of Justin’s company and Making Treaty 7 with Lunchbox as the production side of things. And Justin has now chosen that artist and it’s going to be Zachary Running Coyote, and he will create a show. And the intention is to take the trickster character Napi from the Blackfoot and to look at the trickster character from a variety of different nations perspectives and legends. I’m super excited that it’s going to be Zach because he is a super talented young guy and just a lovely – lovely human and a great storyteller.
JAMES
You’re ending your season with Nashville Hurricane with Chase Padgett who came here a couple of years ago to do his Six Guitars show. And for anybody who hasn’t seen him, he is the most amazing talented performer you’re ever going to see. I even went up to the Fringe in Edmonton last summer just to see Six Guitars, so I’m thrilled to see him coming back to Lunchbox.
SAMANTHA
Our season catchphrase is Together. The whole season is really about togetherness and acceptance and it’s about being all in this together and from the first show to the last show in the season that’s the message. And so in that last moment in Nashville Hurricane where he talks about his epiphany and realizing that we’re all here together and we’re all a miracle – that was for me – a beautiful way to wrap up this season which is really an encapsulation of who we are as Lunchbox Theatre and who we want to be in our community so yeah, it was the perfect show.
JAMES
So, after five years at Lunchbox you’ve made a decision to say goodbye and when it was announced that you were leaving I had this little moment of, “Oh, no not again.” Because you’ve brought Lunchbox to such a good point, and it’s healthy, and the seasons are good and they’re entertaining, and I was like who are they going to get?
SAMANTHA
When I announced to my team that Shari Wattling was my replacement and they cheered I went, “Yeah, okay we’re good. I can leave you guys and you’re in good hands and you’re happy so that’s what matters to me.” And Shari is such a smart lady, and she has really great ideas about where Lunchbox is going, and she has a significant history with the company. Her first professional gig was here. She’s directed for us. She’s dramaturged for us. She’s acted on our stages a number of times, and she was in the office for a period of time, so she has a really good love and understanding of the organization, and I think that’s super important.
So then, what brought you to this point in your life? Why did you make the decision to leave?
SAMANTHA
There are a couple of things. I should be super clear that I am not leaving Lunchbox. It has nothing to do with this organization. I love this company, and I love the work that we’re doing, and my team is amazing, and if it were ten years ago and I still had the energy and the space in my life that I had then – then I would stay.
But I have been running companies solo essentially for about seventeen years without a break, and I just turned forty-seven, and what I became very aware of in the last couple of years is – that as much as I love the work that we do and as much as I love this industry – my own well has begun to run dry, and I needed to take steps to do a little self-care to refill that well before I started getting bitter and before I started getting angry. Before I stop loving what I do.
And another part that plays into that is when I was twenty-two my mom died of cancer at forty-eight and as I approach that milestone I am aware that in her forty-eight years she lived a vast life, and she raised five children, and she volunteered and studied and had a very rich life. She was an exceptional human. And as I look at my own life in my forty-seven years I’m aware that there’s something a bit lacking for me, because all I’ve done is work and that’s meant the end of a marriage of fifteen years and a lot of stress. So, I made a commitment to myself that I’m going to do something different and see if I can figure out how to live a little bit of life for the next little while. So it’s not about leaving Lunchbox, or even necessarily leaving theatre, it’s about finding a way and a space for me to have a life with a capital L and to re-evaluate things and then move forward from there, and I don’t know what that will look like but that’s the plan. And I’ve been saying for years, “I’m going to get a life one of these days,” and I finally just went, “No I actually have to do something in order to make that happen. No one’s going to hand it to you.” And I always say the Universe provides, and it always has in my thirty years in this industry. I’ve never been without a job, and there are lots of opportunities sort of floating around out there, and I’m just waiting to see what the next thing is that the Universe offers.
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You can check out the entire 2019/20 Lunchbox Theatre season below. Individual tickets to Lunchbox shows are just $25.00 or save some money and purchase a play pass which gives you seven flexible admissions for the price of six. Complete season details and ticket information can be found at LunchboxTheatre.com.
Lunchbox Theatre 2019/20 Theatre Season
The Pink Unicorn By Elise Forier Edie September 14 to October 5
Some battles only a mother can fight. When Trisha Lee’s daughter announces that she is genderqueer, the small-town Texas widow’s world is upended. Suddenly at odds with her faith and her family, Trisha must struggle to understand and accept her daughter’s truth. Hilarious and heartfelt, The Pink Unicorn explores a mother’s boundless love for her child.
In Flanders Fields By Rober Gontier & Nicky Phillips October 19 to November 9
This stunning work was our inaugural Remembrance play in 2010, when it received a Betty Mitchell Award nomination for Outstanding Production of a Musical. Based on the extraordinary life of Lt.-Col John McCrae, In Flanders Fields sweeps from rural Ontario to the mud of the French trenches, revealing the brotherhood, love, and true humanity of one of Canada’s most famous poets.
Last Christmas By Neil Flemming November 23rd to December 21st
Last Christmas, Jake’s wife Marge was still alive and every ritual was observed. This year, between two feuding daughters and a delinquent grandson, Jake’s holidays will be anything but traditional. This heartwarming comedy offers a contemporary look at the joys and challenges of the season, and reminds us that family just might be the greatest gift of all.
Good Morning Viet Mom Created and Performed by Franco Nguyen January 11 to January 25
Filmmaker Franco Nguyen travels to Vietnam seeking inspiration for his first feature film and finds an unexpected subject – his mother. Good Morning, Viet Mom is a comedic and bittersweet gem from a first-generation Canadian raised by his single immigrant mother. Nguyen shares stories about childhood; his relationship with his mother; and their emotional trip to Vietnam.
Old Man: The NAPI PROJECT A Partnership with Making Treaty 7 Cultural Society
The culmination of a co-operative Artist in Residence program with Making Treaty 7 Cultural Society, this project will explore the tradition of Trickster, and stories that examine our morals and the choices we face. The project will be an exploration of what this cultural character evokes and inspires in an Indigenous artist.
A Tender Thing By Ben Power March 21 to April 11
What if Romeo and Juliet had lived? This is the question Ben Power poses in this delicate and profound “remix” of the greatest love story ever told. The premise is simple – rather than taking their own lives, the young lovers have grown old together, their dazzling love undimmed, to endure a more commonplace tragedy. Shakespeare’s timeless poetry creates a new, deeply romantic and powerful play, and a strikingly different love story.
Nashville Hurricane Written by Chase Padgett & Jay Hopkins April 18 to May 09
Forty years ago a mysterious guitarist appeared from nowhere, conquered the music industry, and then vanished without a trace… until now.
Hot on the heels of his smash hit 6 Guitars, virtuoso actor and musician Chase Padgett becomes a manager, a mother, a mentor, and the guitar prodigy himself as each one tells their side of the rise, demise, and resurrection of the best damn guitar player you’ve never heard of: the Nashville Hurricane.
509 By Justin Many Fingers October 3 to October 12 Season add on in Partnership with Making Treaty 7
Still in creation, 509 is an examination of a young man’s connection to his Blackfoot ancestors, a connection he only discovers as he lays dying. The show will be a dance theatre piece, mostly in the Blackfoot tongue. This piece is part of a triptych created by Justin Many Fingers, supported by Making Treaty 7 Cultural Society and Lunchbox Theatre. This show is an add on to the 2019/2020 season, presented at The GRAND Theatre.
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LUNCHBOX THEATRE: Lunchbox Theatre is one of the most successful noon hour theatre companies in the world. It aims to provide patrons with a unique theatre experience by producing one-act plays that engage and entertain audiences. Lunchbox Theatre produces six plays per season, as well as the Stage One Festival of New Canadian Work and the RBC Emerging Director’s Program. It is one of Calgary’s longest-running professional theatre companies and is located in the heart of downtown at the base of the Calgary Tower.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
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